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[ToonyMan]

@TricMagic:

@TricMagic:
Riddle me this, if you had a day ability would you use it Day 1?

Absolutely, in fact I already have! Or maybe not and I'm trickin ya.

How delightfully...dishonest.

dolores, why all the megaposts? Toonyman, why no reaction? Or did I miss it in the walls of posts? And Caz, why am I voting you?

...I'm not going to be posting every hour of the day. If I'm online expect something in a timely manner. I plan on being online everyday.


@IcyTea:

Everyone: Why am I self-voting?

There's a few reasons. None of them are "because you're town". I'm going to assume bad play for now though.


@Vector:

@Jim Groovester:
Where's Sigma? Do you think you'll survive Day 1 and Night 1? Which one is more likely and why?
@dolores:
Do you think you have a chance of winning this game? Do you think you'll survive to the end as well?

Can you speak to why half your questions refer to survival, Toony?

You're right. Must be the month long Battle Royale I spent on a space station in BP3...

(Now that I think about it, I was Battle Royale in BYOR14 so that's kind of a funny mention too.)


@dolores:

the fossil players

Oof.

@dolores:
Do you think you have a chance of winning this game? Do you think you'll survive to the end as well?

Yes. I'm the best player here and I'm probably the least likely to get screwed out of having access to the vanilla town wincon, so I expect that wincon is more likely than not to come to fruition, even if substantial portions of the rest of town lose access to it.
Not especially. There's a good chance that I die to something semi-global that bypasses my ability, and I'm less likely to get around that than others. I'm not going to get lynched outside of mechanical (cult victory, vote manipulation, the rest of town dying etc.) reasons though, if that's what you meant.

Getting voted and lynched wouldn't count as being targeted by an ability though right?

@Caz:

I'm already confused by my role ;_;

I think you're playing dumb. Why act incompetent unless you're anti-town?

I disagree, I think Caz is just anti-town on a meta level right now. Their responses are so guilelessly useless it doesn't seem scummy at all.
ToonyMan: do you think Caz is scummy or just not-towny?

Anti-town for now.

[dolores]

More seriously, I'm going to get more information out of grilling a single player intensely than grilling many players lightly.

As for the hypothetical third option of 'grilling many players intensely', do you really think I have the brain space to write 20 questions for every player?

You could grill one player intensely and a bunch of players lightly.
Vector is town. That's a hypothetical. You have reason to believe vector is town. What do you do now? Start literally from scratch, or piggyback on an existing wagon you haven't actually contributed to? There are too many players and not enough hours in the Day1 for you to get a tight read on everyone in this way. You've played enough games to know this, you've played enough games with me in them to know this, I know you know I know you know this etc.
Do you plan to interact with someone besides the people who are going after you specifically for the very valid reason that you're not really doing very much at all to find scum?

It takes a lot of trust in your daygame ability to be able to completely ignore the mechanical side of the game. What will you do when (not if) your daygame fails you?

Get screwed. I'm basically relying on my ability to identify e.g. scum with problem powers and deal with them during the thread, or my team just winning despite me. I can probably help other people solve the game but outside of niche stuff I'm going to be super in the dark about like convincing scum to townside via a mutable-wincon plan that's very unlikely to actually help me.

You mean to tell me this game bores you so much you're not getting insomnia over it?

I'd have the insomnia either way, but the game is helping.
Why wouldn't I pretend to take you at your word if it calls attention to your level of activity in a way that makes you want to respond to the thread?

inb4 Dolores submitted 'The BYOR15 Role That Lets Its User Completely Ignore The Mechanical Side Of The Game'.

It's more like 'The BYOR15 Role that Lets Its User Completely Ignore The Mechanical Side Of The Game But Not Really'. You should have been able to get a more accurate match to the specific wording from the flavor though, not that I want to encourage you to read into flavor when you're doing such a bad job with the actual daygame.

[7]: I mainly asked so many to see how you'd respond to a poke of that magnitude. Response noted.

What magnitude? None at all? You're responding to Vector's out-of-RVS Case on FallacyofUrist. You'd do that whether you were scum or town. The only players this sheds light on are you and Vector. I don't even know anything about your opinions on players other than Vector, which is a problem I don't need to rectify if I jump on the wagon against you.
You're voting vector and staking pretty much your entire D1-to-date on this attempt. Do you actually think vector is scum, or you're just voting for them, with nothing else on the backburner?

dolores, why all the megaposts?

When people post, and respond to posts, and engage with the daygame, it tells you things about them, hopefully culminating in insight into their alignment. I'm town. If everyone who isn't town was dead, I'd win. The only method I have to achieve this world vision that I'm claiming at this junction is my ability to vote and lynch players.
Why aren't you posting?

Getting voted and lynched wouldn't count as being targeted by an ability though right?

That's my understanding. I'm unlynchable though.
(me, the player, not anything mechanically relevant concept)
Like I said to ICT, my main mechanical fear is external vote manipulation which I don't necessarily have the ability to prevent. I don't think that many townies will be talked into seriously committing to a dolores lynch.
FallacyofUrist
I kinda dislike unvoting caz here because I don't think their behavior to date is acceptable, but I also think a resting vote is going to bother FoU a lot more

[TricMagic]

One, mega walls, two nearly bedtime.

[Jim Groovester]

Oh neato the day starts while I'm not here and now there are three pages of stuff to dig through.

Give me a second while I figure out wtf is going on.

[Vector]

@Toony -- thanks for the response.

@

It takes a lot of trust in your daygame ability to be able to completely ignore the mechanical side of the game. What will you do when (not if) your daygame fails you?

inb4 Dolores submitted 'The BYOR15 Role That Lets Its User Completely Ignore The Mechanical Side Of The Game'.

Which player are you grilling, then? I can't tell.

Hypothetically, Vector.

[1] What a massive waste of fucking time. I'm going to respond to some of your questions. Starting with 2, 4 and 17: I think you should focus on being efficient.

[2] I don't consider RVS drudgery. We've more or less already left it. I don't have any opinions on IcyTea yet. I have seen many self-voters come and go in my time. I'm more interested in what people do around IcyTea.

[3] All abilities are more or less scary depending on the wielder. I don't have an alignment read on you yet, that would be irresponsible given the evidence and my long absence.

[4] I, local fossil, haven't played a game here recently enough to be able to give a reference that will make sense regarding similar games. The game seems to have some DNA from Kill Webadict Now and I'm guessing there's a reasonable chance that he's going to indulge in some sparring back and forth with Meph.

[5] I wouldn't vote Dolores at this point, no. Their grandstanding is too fun and they clearly need some time to get rolling (oops, ninja'ed! There it is!).

[6] And no, I don't feel pressured, by, uh, anything. What brings pressure isn't the act of voting or FoSing or acting random and offering people food or asking one question over another. It's the person behind all that, the person who is thinking and deciding. That person and their motivation is what makes one move better or more meaningful than another.

[7] I'm aware I didn't answer some of your questions. Honestly, I skimmed. If you want more answered, I can get back to you.

[1]: Valid.

[2]: What makes you say we've already left the RVS stage entirely?

[3]: But isn't vote manipulation nastier since it can potentially remove or weaken the town's ability to use its numerical advantage over the anti-town?

[4]: Days of yore reference much? Heh. Better question then, how do you think the game veterans are going to read the newer and less experienced players?

[5]: And what would make dolores a good choice to vote?

[6]: The metaphorical eyes of the French fries god looking down on your mortal flesh?

[7]: I mainly asked so many to see how you'd respond to a poke of that magnitude. Response noted.

[2] RVS ends when voting begins to be for cause. My first vote was for cause; therefore, in my opinion, RVS is over.

[3] We used to play Vote Mafia here. No, I'm not really worried about vote manipulation. For example, if Org (from a long time ago) were playing, I would be pretty unconcerned about any vote manipulation powers he had. Towards Lylo or Mylo there could be a problem for sure, but that's a long time away from now. We have a lot of time to catch the scum before then.

[4] Newer doesn't necessarily mean "less experienced." It might just mean we have experience from different eras. As for what others will do -- who knows? I'll do exactly what I'm demonstrating: drawing out reactions, comparing them to what I already know.

[5] Scumtells, or an attempt to bring out scumtells, would be a good reason to vote Dolores.


But I think you know that already.

[NJW2000]

NJW2000: thoughts on how you think the stronger players who haven't played in a long time and are likely unfamiliar with the meta that's been going on with ICT/4mask/etc. are going to react, any particular thoughts you feel would be important to point out to me to play around?

Not sure how the older players are going to react to the newer meta... I'm not entirely familiar with it myself, as my mafia games on bay12 have been spaced out over almost five years, and I only read the odd game. It's possible I really belong in a Beginner's Mafia still, but those are far and few these days. Apologies in advance, all!

I imagine their characters and ways of thinking have evolved a great deal, so they'll probably approach the game in a different way from when they started their vacation from mafia. So their approach to any kind of new meta would be more reactive, rather than reactionary, as they begin to define their own new playstyle. You'd hope, at least.

If I'm honest, this question may have been a bit beyond me. No particular thoughts spring out to me as something you should play around - not entirely sure what you mean by that.

IcyTea31
Everyone: Why am I self-voting?

Role dickery, votes on you at the start of the day probably give you more cupcakes or some nonsense. The explanation is mechanical and totally unknowable until I have more information!


Toonyman: how do you feel about dolores not being targetable? Angry? Envious? Unimpressed? Relieved? Strangely aroused?

Jim Groovester: Some people made posts before the game started about the levels of shenanigans they chose. Would it be unsporting to read into those posts? Do you think they could yield useful insights? Do you think they couldn't?

Everyone: What's going on with "Leave Comments"? How on earth do you think that works? I'm pretty sure I totally understand it, I just want to check everyone else does. Maybe 4mask doesn't get it. I feel like he doesn't get it, maybe someone should write a really clear explanation ~
(Srsly though, is it that we all can comment on another player/role/alignment and can somehow modify them? That feels really weird - like we all have the ability to make a change, in some unspecified way, say to town's wincon through some comment? It seems completely insane.)

Luckyowl: Do you think anything of note has happened yet? Are we out of RVS? Why?

dolores: what are you hoping to achieve with this claim here:

Leafsnail: I've got it on good authority (my own) that there are wincons in this game besides basic factional ones. How important do you think semi-bastard strats like converting everyone to the same cult and having a huge group/all players win together are likely to be in the game?

General musings: the comments thing is freaking me out, there's already two pages since the start of the game despite many people not having posted yet, and it would be hilarious if the [REDACTED] ability Dolores is allowed to use was the scumkill.

[dolores]

Everyone: What's going on with "Leave Comments"? How on earth do you think that works? I'm pretty sure I totally understand it, I just want to check everyone else does.

There's been a lot of pregame moderator posts about very long and complicated roles but I haven't really seen people acting like they intend to throw away the pretense of normal gameplay, so I suspect it's got a pretty rigorous level of 'it does specific things if specific cumulative global conditions are reached'. That's my suspicion. I can't use it though, and can't be targeted, so unless the the town alignment wincon that I share is changed or my revealed ability is targeted by name and changed it can only impact my game indirectly.
If it can be used to kill Wacky And Hilarious Hijinks, that's probably part of a possible route for an all-players win (I have an extra and very easy wincon that is blocked by it, so if someone can pass around copies of my role with the action-blocker removed it shouldn't be too hard to organize). If you take off my shackles though I'm just going to fuck off into the winners lounge at the earliest opportunity rather than help anyone else, though.

dolores: what are you hoping to achieve with this claim here:

Leafsnail: I've got it on good authority (my own) that there are wincons in this game besides basic factional ones. How important do you think semi-bastard strats like converting everyone to the same cult and having a huge group/all players win together are likely to be in the game?

A whole bunch of people including LS haven't posted yet, so my thoughts that the core daygame is being taken relatively seriously is still in danger of unraveling before the end of D1. I also wanted to softclaim the extra wincon at some point during RVS because I can't access it on my own so I'll actually need someone to believe a relatively eccentric claim to access it myself. If someone just decides to try and kill me and absorb it or whatever they need to deal with my existing role and will probably out themselves in the dayphase putting together a shitty forced lynch, which is likely to my advantage.

[Leafsnail]

Merry 1:30am on Christmas day, everyone! I would sincerely like to know how everyone's Christmas is/was this year.

Leafsnail: I've got it on good authority (my own) that there are wincons in this game besides basic factional ones. How important do you think semi-bastard strats like converting everyone to the same cult and having a huge group/all players win together are likely to be in the game?

My guess would be not very. I assume most players have picked a high level of Shenanigans and that will probably make it very difficult to form any reliable plan at night. That's both due to town roles potentially having uncontrollable elements and the possibility of unclaimed scum roles falling outside of any reasonable expectation. That kind of breaking strategy is much more likely to happen in a game with known or at least relatively sane roles.

[Vector]

Good to see you again, Leafsnail. Going to go get some groceries soon, but . . .

[Off-topic: I'm not great, I've been in social isolation for more than 30 days now due to living alone in an area with a shelter-in-place order. Also, my cousin apparently got married over a year ago and didn't tell anyone outside her immediate family until today! On the other hand, it's nice to be playing Mafia with the gang again and I'm glad if other people can do some relaxing. I plan to spend most of tomorrow reading a novel.]

[TricMagic]

Just as well day one won't accomplish much, though I would like to see a lynch go through with the sheer number of people. And the fact our roles won't be revealed on death, so waiting doesn't do much. Despite my high shenanigans role, or maybe because of it.

Hope I don't get daykilled like last game.

[Vector]

>:0

OK, I actually do need to go get groceries if I'm going to have anything to eat tomorrow, but we're less than 24 hours into the game! It's too early for nihilism. We can get some good work done here.

[webadict]

[Off-topic: I'm not great, I've been in social isolation for more than 30 days now due to living alone in an area with a shelter-in-place order. Also, my cousin apparently got married over a year ago and didn't tell anyone outside her immediate family until today! On the other hand, it's nice to be playing Mafia with the gang again and I'm glad if other people can do some relaxing. I plan to spend most of tomorrow reading a novel.]

[If you're looking for social interaction and want to play some video games or whatever, hit me up. Being stuck alone is awful, and I've got like a whole week off from work, and I think you are a pretty cool dude, so I'd be down. Up to you, Vector.]

[Vector]

[Off-topic: I'm not great, I've been in social isolation for more than 30 days now due to living alone in an area with a shelter-in-place order. Also, my cousin apparently got married over a year ago and didn't tell anyone outside her immediate family until today! On the other hand, it's nice to be playing Mafia with the gang again and I'm glad if other people can do some relaxing. I plan to spend most of tomorrow reading a novel.]

[If you're looking for social interaction and want to play some video games or whatever, hit me up. Being stuck alone is awful, and I've got like a whole week off from work, and I think you are a pretty cool dude, so I'd be down. Up to you, Vector.]

[Thanks kiddo, I'll think about it. Just having an offer honestly helps. Take care, Wubba.]

[webadict]

[Thanks kiddo, I'll think about it. Just having an offer honestly helps. Take care, Wubba.]

[Yeah, I know what you mean because I've been in that same boat, and hanging out with friends online has been keeping me sane. It's always on the table, ya nerd.]

[FallacyofUrist]

Tric:

And the fact our roles won't be revealed on death, so waiting doesn't do much. Despite my high shenanigans role, or maybe because of it.

Excuse me what?

NJW:

Everyone: What's going on with "Leave Comments"? How on earth do you think that works? I'm pretty sure I totally understand it, I just want to check everyone else does. Maybe 4mask doesn't get it. I feel like he doesn't get it, maybe someone should write a really clear explanation.

Two words: Shenanigans 11.

Far as I can tell, it's a general 'modify this' ability, except it gets more powerful the more specifically you target it. I suspect targeting a group as large as 'town' would give a minimal result, whereas giving a role name, a player name, and an alignment would give a very powerful shift.

Um, it does say at least one will be modified... so could we modify stuff that doesn't exist? That's a fucky thought.

NJW2000 for no reason whatsoever.

Vector:

[2] RVS ends when voting begins to be for cause. My first vote was for cause; therefore, in my opinion, RVS is over.

[3] We used to play Vote Mafia here. No, I'm not really worried about vote manipulation. For example, if Org (from a long time ago) were playing, I would be pretty unconcerned about any vote manipulation powers he had. Towards Lylo or Mylo there could be a problem for sure, but that's a long time away from now. We have a lot of time to catch the scum before then.

[4] Newer doesn't necessarily mean "less experienced." It might just mean we have experience from different eras. As for what others will do -- who knows? I'll do exactly what I'm demonstrating: drawing out reactions, comparing them to what I already know.

[5] Scumtells, or an attempt to bring out scumtells, would be a good reason to vote Dolores.

But I think you know that already.

[2] So is it possible for some players to still be in RVS while others aren't?

[3] Interestingly, there were a lot of vote manipulation powers in the example roles. I 50% suspect that that'll be some sort of theme this game.

[5] What is a scumtell?

dolores:

More seriously, I'm going to get more information out of grilling a single player intensely than grilling many players lightly.

As for the hypothetical third option of 'grilling many players intensely', do you really think I have the brain space to write 20 questions for every player?

[1] You could grill one player intensely and a bunch of players lightly.
Vector is town. That's a hypothetical. You have reason to believe vector is town. What do you do now? Start literally from scratch, or piggyback on an existing wagon you haven't actually contributed to? There are too many players and not enough hours in the Day1 for you to get a tight read on everyone in this way. You've played enough games to know this, you've played enough games with me in them to know this, I know you know I know you know this etc.
Do you plan to interact with someone besides the people who are going after you specifically for the very valid reason that you're not really doing very much at all to find scum?

inb4 Dolores submitted 'The BYOR15 Role That Lets Its User Completely Ignore The Mechanical Side Of The Game'.

[2] It's more like 'The BYOR15 Role that Lets Its User Completely Ignore The Mechanical Side Of The Game But Not Really'. You should have been able to get a more accurate match to the specific wording from the flavor though, not that I want to encourage you to read into flavor when you're doing such a bad job with the actual daygame.

[7]: I mainly asked so many to see how you'd respond to a poke of that magnitude. Response noted.

[3] What magnitude? None at all? You're responding to Vector's out-of-RVS Case on FallacyofUrist. You'd do that whether you were scum or town. The only players this sheds light on are you and Vector. I don't even know anything about your opinions on players other than Vector, which is a problem I don't need to rectify if I jump on the wagon against you.
You're voting vector and staking pretty much your entire D1-to-date on this attempt. Do you actually think vector is scum, or you're just voting for them, with nothing else on the backburner?

[4] FallacyofUrist
I kinda dislike unvoting caz here because I don't think their behavior to date is acceptable, but I also think a resting vote is going to bother FoU a lot more

[1] I have a very sporadic memory. Frankly I don't remember any of your other games. Nor am I motivated enough to start re-reading just to learn more about you. We do have a very long first day, though, so I hope to be able to intensely grill 4 or 5 players. I get that that's not everyone, but better to do a decent job with a few players than a poor job on everyone.

[2] I would complain about your insults, but honestly you're completely right. I'm terrible at mafia daygaming and if you really were in games with me, you'd know that. I rely on the night game and cunning gambits to get anything done. Half the time that fails completely too, though.

[3] It's the first 24 hours of day 1. Out of roughly five IRL days. I'm starting with Vector but I'll move on to others. And my vote right now means nothing, I know you read that. Probably. Maybe.

Fries for the fry god, tomatoes for the ketchup throne.

[4] If I ever start to feel pressured from you, I'll just self-hypnotize myself to be unable to feel emotion while reading your posts. I wouldn't do that for everyone who goes after me, but you're kinda an ass, so I think it's worthwhile.

IcyTea31:

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