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Author Topic: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support  (Read 119141 times)

Starver

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2265 on: February 16, 2023, 01:12:13 pm »

(Can't be bothered to cut down the massive inserted quote for just two snippets.)

"you just don't like the word Western Satanism" - Is that you, Mr President?

"They are taking those children from places they consider part of Russia to other places in Russia.  From their POV, they ain't doing anything wrong because those children aren't Ukrainian anymore." - Which means they were Ukrainian. More nice phrasing.


(I was beginning to wonder if you'd given up your position and retired gracefully. But yet more nonsense, I see.)
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2266 on: February 16, 2023, 01:39:11 pm »

Oh boy, are we gettin' a side order of genocide denial now? Guess we're back to wondering if the mods are still asleep...
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On DF Wiki · On DFFD

"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2267 on: February 16, 2023, 01:44:29 pm »

No, I like the word Western Satanism, it is a perfect, unfettered representative product of the kind of deranged mind that would say kidnapping children from their parents is OK because the country they live in isn't a country really.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2023, 01:48:26 pm by bloop_bleep »
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Madman198237

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2268 on: February 16, 2023, 01:47:57 pm »

It is very informative to see the level of human being required to believe in what Putin says about his Short Victorious WarTM.

A conspiracy-theorist-tier lunatic who is almost certainly a troll because most actual conspiracy theorists don't understand so many multisyllable words.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2269 on: February 16, 2023, 01:51:44 pm »

So the usual Putinist horseshit. Zero surprise there.
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"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.

nenjin

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2270 on: February 16, 2023, 02:24:15 pm »

Quote from: Acts 5
27 The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”

29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

God first, local authorities second
That's all I have time to say right now

You know you've got a solid argument when you quote the Bible and nope out.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2271 on: February 16, 2023, 03:22:10 pm »

Seeing how RD consistently gets the names of places and historical facts wrong while authoritatively lecturing us on how things are, I've decided to read his posts in Mr. Plinkett's voice. It all makes sense now.
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Devastator

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2272 on: February 16, 2023, 05:46:34 pm »

As for the soviet breakup, it happened because of internal issues more than anything else.  Economy was total shit, failures were obvious to everyone, and things were reaching the point where the Soviet Union was going to start facing large internal armed rebellions all over, several of which actually happened.  In a very real way they were facing the choice of being in a more-or-less permanent internal war with all their enemies holding their own large armed forces, many of which were the same sort of firepower they were using, or to conduct sufficient reforms to reduce the pressures to something that could be controlled with the usual plan of stamping out one rebellion with tanks at a time.

Quote
Trying to do any of that would have produced one of three results. First, the leadership of the Soviet Union might have decided to roll the dice on actual war instead of breaking up - because that would be the only possible chance of any kind of survival. The second possibility would be one that nearly happened anyway - a full-blown civil war in a country with thousands of nuclear warheads. The third would be them trying to double down on the fortress mentality, keeping everything -including Ukraine and the Baltics- until everybody starved. All of which would be horrible, horrible options for everybody and resulted in a death toll that would dwarf both World Wars combined. Aiding the breakup and trying to transistion the post-Soviet states to healthy democracies was quite literally the only option that wasn't utterly insane.The plan didn't fail because it was a bad idea, it failed because the institutional rot was far worse than Western observers realized, and more importantly because the American in charge of distributing the aid monies conspired with oligarchs to steal said aid monies.

I more or less agree with this assessment, although I would like to point out something at the end.  Almost nobody in the Soviet Union knew how money worked.  The sheer breadth of fraud and scams can hardly be underestimated, largely because basically nobody knew thing one about money.

There were also real success stories.  Czechia, the Baltic States.. 

There were absolutely failures post 1991, though.  Trials and arrests of ex secret policemen and state security officers might have saved a free Russia, but hindsight is, alas, 20/20.

As for Unthinkable and WW2.5, well..  I don't rightly know.  I have little opinion on how that would have went.  There wasn't much support for attacking the current ally, on either side, and it would have been extremely messy.  The soviets were in a bad manpower crunch, but they still had very powerful forces in the field.  And everyone in the Western Allies knew then how difficult an invasion of Russia can be.  Personally, I'd be reluctant to write an AH featuring Unthinkable, it'd take a lot of changes and assumptions.

Seeing how RD consistently gets the names of places and historical facts wrong while authoritatively lecturing us on how things are, I've decided to read his posts in Mr. Plinkett's voice. It all makes sense now.

I would agree that RD seems likely to have someone tied up in his basement, yes.  But Mr. Plinkett has both the ability to think critically and produce material of value.

"From their POV, they ain't doing anything wrong because those children aren't Ukrainian anymore." - Which means they were Ukrainian. More nice phrasing.

The phrasing also implies RD knows this is wrong, too.
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Devastator

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2273 on: February 16, 2023, 05:49:25 pm »

Oh, and as for 1994, you're right that it would have been a good time to make a difference.  I suspect most people were distracted by the fallout related from the various Balkan wars going on simultaneously, though, to think about really intervening about Chechnya.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2274 on: February 16, 2023, 05:58:41 pm »

I just keep hoping Toady eventually stops snoozin' and enforces the forum rules. It's bad enough this Putnist troll keeps posting his inane horseshit, but having the same abbreviation as my username is just going to get confusing. :V
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On DF Wiki · On DFFD

"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.

Il Palazzo

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2275 on: February 16, 2023, 06:04:31 pm »

He's not breaking forum rules, is he? There's no 'must be a shill for Western Satanists' clause when you sign up.
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Starver

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2276 on: February 16, 2023, 06:06:01 pm »

I just keep hoping Toady eventually stops snoozin' and enforces the forum rules. It's bad enough this Putnist troll keeps posting his inane horseshit, but having the same abbreviation as my username is just going to get confusing. :V
I already get you confused with Elton John for exactly this reason!
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Devastator

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2277 on: February 16, 2023, 06:09:58 pm »

Aiding the USSR breakup failed because the western governments allowed their citizens to commit actions in the USSR that would have been illegal in their own countries.

It wasn't one westerner who conspired to steal monies, it was many. They used networks of businesses and lawyers with the goal of personal profit, not with the goal of creating healthy democracies.

If this war ends, the exploitation of their natural resources and the international sale of those resources has to be transparent enough to prevent another rise-to-power of an elite that suppresses their own population on behalf of non-Ukrainian business partners.

Yeah, no.  The USSR breakup was largely internal, and most of the crimes were done by Russians against Russians.  There were many non-Russians who wanted pieces of the pie, but their entire economy needed to be rebuilt.  Many other countries ended up as healthy democracies.. but Russia didn't.  Current leader is an ex secret policeman who came to power by both producing fake scares to crack down against and by employing large numbers of economicists to redistribute wealth to his chosen all-Russian elite... while cracking down on other Russians who didn't agree with him taking over.

As for Ukraine, they're more than capable of running their own country, and have been fixing their own problems for years.  The worst politicians in terms of stealing have, of course, been the ones backed and supported by Russia.  Yanukovich was greatly unpopular for many reasons, not the least of which was his massive fortune created by both payoffs from Russia and stealing from Ukraine.  The population knows what's up and had no difficulty turning against someone who made his money by trampling down the rights of Ukrainians.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2023, 06:14:17 pm by Devastator »
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Devastator

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2278 on: February 16, 2023, 06:12:08 pm »

He's not breaking forum rules, is he? There's no 'must be a shill for Western Satanists' clause when you sign up.

Genocide denial is more than a little bit questionable.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Personal Diary & Mutual Support
« Reply #2279 on: February 16, 2023, 06:18:28 pm »

We started with blatant trolling, then moved to openly insulting other forumites with his repeated slinging around of the "western satanists" nonsense. Genocide denial's just the point where it goes from "what is wrong with you" to "what is wrong with the moderators here for not noticing that"
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On DF Wiki · On DFFD

"Hey idiots, someone hacked my account to call you all idiots! Wasn't me you idiots!" seems to stretch credulity a bit.
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