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Author Topic: Fallacy's Horrible Cults - End - Prisonbreak  (Read 29704 times)

TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #570 on: May 14, 2023, 02:43:54 pm »

Doesn't that mean your Wincon is detrimental too?
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TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #571 on: May 14, 2023, 02:46:12 pm »

Well, probably shouldn't put it like that. I don't quite believe your claims that Jim is Cult. It's a very easy accusation  to make, but your saying Jim admitted it doesn't fit. Play to your wincon, and admitting you're cult doesn't quite do that Max.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #572 on: May 14, 2023, 02:50:10 pm »

Doesn't that mean your Wincon is detrimental too?
If I'm not mistaken, it means that the rest of town can win with me still SOL. As if my role didn't suck enough.

Well, probably shouldn't put it like that. I don't quite believe your claims that Jim is Cult. It's a very easy accusation  to make, but your saying Jim admitted it doesn't fit. Play to your wincon, and admitting you're cult doesn't quite do that Max.
Tric, please, for the love of god. I was joking. It was the most obvious joke in the world. Don't make me explain the jokes to you, Tric.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #573 on: May 14, 2023, 02:51:48 pm »

Doesn't that mean your Wincon is detrimental too?
Oh, you meant detrimental to town. No, there are apparently all sorts of different wincons. I have no way to win without the rest of town. I have to reach the town wincon of eliminating the anti-town players, AND ALSO do something else. Because fuck me in particular, apparently.

What's your extra wincon, Tric?
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TricMagic

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #574 on: May 14, 2023, 02:54:52 pm »

I don't have one. I've got a great lead up to one, but none there.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #575 on: May 14, 2023, 03:04:55 pm »

Knightwing's other win condition caught me by surprise. My only wincon is the Town wincon.
Are you entirely sure of this, insofar as your wincon looks exactly like the first part of Knightwing's, and doesn't even have the words 'OR' or 'AND' in it?
Yes.

I just have the Town wincon. There's no OR or AND or anything else.

On a second look...Fallacy does mention KYOSN as an inspiration for my role. I didn't know what he meant by that, but I looked into it and I think they're talking about this 2014 game I wasn't in where everyone was Shakerag. Or at least, it appears to be based around a Shakerag role if I had to guess.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #576 on: May 14, 2023, 03:20:11 pm »

'hmmmm hmmmm hmmmm, yes, yes, yes, in my very high IQ (very high) analysis there are parts of Jim's stated claims and actions that don't make sense within the premise that he's cult, but I can still conveniently rationalize them away as needed'

Or maybe, I actually did (attempt to) inspect webadict, since I could have confirmed that he inspected as mafia and also learned his win condition, which would tell me what his alignment actually was regardless of what he inspected as.
Yeah, here's the thing. Your stated claims and actions do make sense within the premise that you're cult. The idea that you'd convert Web may not, but inspecting him does, as you want to know who the other cult was.

Also, I suspect that as cult leader, you would lie about your actions. This being Mafia and not Hungry, Hungry Hippos. So even if you actioned Web, claiming it was an inspect rather than something more hostile wouldn't be out of the question. But hey, it could just be an inspect.

Maybe Egan and I are wrong about the conversion attempt. But... there's nothing about your being cult that doesn't chime perfectly with your stated actions and (mechanically) safe playstyle.

It's a nice trick: pointing out that a deduction I've made from the evidence must be unsound, and declaring that I thus should not trust the evidence because I can't reconcile it with other evidence. But I can reconcile it just fine - it's the deduction that was invalid.

As I've said... Jimnosis doesn't work on everyone.

There's also nothing about my stated claims and actions that are out of the ordinary for me being town. It's dishonest for you to argue like inspecting webadict is something I would only do as a cult leader. blah blah rhetorical tricks blah blah whatever you're doing the same

You've conceded that I probably don't recruit webadict, and you can't argue that I didn't target webadict since I revealed I couldn't target him before Egan_BW revealed that they made webadict untargetable, so what else do you think I could've been doing? If I'm town, it makes sense for me to inspect webadict. If I'm a cult leader, it also makes sense for me to inspect him, but there are more important things I should probably be doing instead.

I'll give you that a cult result on a player is a pretty good reason to suspect somebody, but it's also not correct. If you want to be NJW2000BC and say NJW SEE PURPLE NJW WANT KILL then I can't stop you, but there's also no reason to say all this shit then. If you want to be NJW2000AD and say 'I am too learned and wise to be befuddled by Jimnosis' then you also have to acknowledge some inconsistency here.

Quote
lucky number speculation

You know, if at any point anybody else wants to share what they know, I'm willing to share what I know about them.
This is a rather odd way to go about it... one shouldn't be thinking about reciprocity. If everyone should know the info, tell us, especially if it won't be revealed in your flip. If it's knowledge that should be kept out of cult hands, take it to your grave. No middle ground for town... so I guess you're openly bargaining with the other cult leader?

Have you noticed that literally nobody besides me is bringing this up? Don't you think that's weird?

Why is everybody specifically avoiding revealing what the lucky numbers do, except for me? Why is there interest in speculating on what the numbers do, but no interest in identifying players like me who have information but are unwilling to share it?

I'm trying to bargain to reveal the information because I want more information to come out besides my little piece of it. I could reveal what I know, but given how nobody wants to touch this topic with a ten foot pole, I suspect it would end there.

plans

How about we do none of these options since I'm not cult?

So ask yourself, where did the idea of two independent cult leaders come from? Cui bono?

The Day 1 opening posts says cults.

There are Cults among you. Horrible ones. Find them before they dunk on you.

Cults have to have leaders because if the conversion was mechanically tied to the team rather than the leader there'd be no way to get ahead of them.

Assuming that cults in this game work like they're normally expected to, which there is no guarantee of.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #577 on: May 14, 2023, 03:23:57 pm »

Assuming that cults in this game work like they're normally expected to, which there is no guarantee of.
This being the point. Other crucial words in my question worth considering are "two" and "independent".
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webadict

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #578 on: May 14, 2023, 03:25:29 pm »

We know that there's a second cultist (possible a third or fourth too). I have a way of killing (it required a bit of setup but I think I'm there). I could just kill Jim tonight, Web can track me doing it, and we can try and execute the second cult leader today.
Uh, I can't do that.  I can only track people with Hot Dogs.  And you shouldn't have one, unless you bought one.
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webadict

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #579 on: May 14, 2023, 03:28:32 pm »

Also, no offense NQT, but I like how your plan of "Let's leave the Cult Leader alive so I can kill him" is the same plan as "Let's just wait while the Cult Leader is alive!"

This is the same goddamn plan you had Yesterday where you stall people out!  Again!
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webadict

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #580 on: May 14, 2023, 03:31:38 pm »

I don't think agreeing to any deals is in our best interest, given how those usually go. Web, how many hot dogs have you sold so far?

I also got a claim.. But Jack failed to answer my question, are you responsible for NQT's extra vote?
I don't know.  I think I only get paid on Day 4.  Unless the Points were from hot dog sales.  In which case, somewhere around 3?

Also, stop being really suspicious.
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notquitethere

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #581 on: May 14, 2023, 03:50:07 pm »

Pfp

I'm not stalling shit. I'm trying to stop both scum teams at the same time. Don't get me wrong, hammering Jim today is probably the right move. But assuming Jim is legit scum (occams razor says so) the other team or teams get a big reprieve today and they know it. They want a quickhammer today. As I've been in literally this situation before, I'll be kicking myself if we make the wrong call. Web, you of all people should get this.

I bought a hotdog (much good it did me) so track away tonight.

Also, Max reread the OP, there are two cult teams guaranteed, why are you trying to obscure that?

Also also, I'm just town. That's my whole wincon.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #582 on: May 14, 2023, 03:56:35 pm »

Also, Max reread the OP, there are two cult teams guaranteed, why are you trying to obscure that?
"There will be at least two cult teams" does not imply any further assumptions.
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notquitethere

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #583 on: May 14, 2023, 04:03:31 pm »

It tells us that if Jim is cult (as is likely) there is a 2nd cult that will have an opportunity for growth if we're too myopic. It's quite concerning that you're trying to downplay the clear risks here. Is it to do with your other wincon?
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Fallacy's Horrible Cults (10 / 11) - Day 2 - Bright Gold Dawn
« Reply #584 on: May 14, 2023, 04:07:51 pm »

It tells us that if Jim is cult (as is likely) there is a 2nd cult that will have an opportunity for growth if we're too myopic. It's quite concerning that you're trying to downplay the clear risks here. Is it to do with your other wincon?
I'm not downplaying anything. I'm suggesting there's more risk than is being assumed.
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