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[nenjin]

It's the kind of nuance that would get you skewered. To people that would decry diversity and say it doesn't work, you could be like "And yet we succeed!"

In other news, Pakistan and Iran are airstriking each other now, both claiming they're shooting at terrorist enclaves. So that's cool. Whether they're actually terrorist enclaves, or just villages where some terrorists stay and get support, or just where someone they didn't like was....or they're just villages, *shrug*

[McTraveller]

I'm surprised they haven't advanced the doomsday clock. At least I haven't seen any news about it.

This is starting to smell like a pretty dangerous situation - too many conflicts in too many places, with enough participants involved in more than one of them to make it a possibility to get out of hand quickly.

[nenjin]

The Pakistan / Iran issue isn't per se related to Gaza. There are separatists in Iran that are have been attacking them internally, who apparently were based in Pakistan. I don't know who Pakistan claims was based out of the Iranian village they blasted. Plausible but it's a bit more chilling to consider it was purely a retaliatory strike. When it comes to nation-states, you have to respond to something like that with force or be perceived as weak internationally and domestically. Still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViaBYRDAAhs

I think this guy's analysis is pretty sound. The real issue is that Iran is starting fires left right and center around it, via their proxies.

They are funding and arming many dissident groups. Considering they have more than one separatist group within Iran attacking them, it kind of goes beyond bold to just rabid to then open up another conflict by risking starting a war with a nuclear power. Gaza and all these other inciting incidents don't cost Iran directly because it's through their proxies. But it will cost them indirectly as all lines lead back to them and if other countries do find themselves ready to act, Iran will find itself over-extended.

Neither Iran nor Pakistan want nuclear war. That's why Pakistan, I fear, just had to pick a random village with enough plausible intelligence to give justification. Blowing up a village is the price of not having a nuclear war, essentially. The hope is that this is where it will end. That just depends on how rabid Iran chooses to be.

[Ziusudra]

I'm surprised they haven't advanced the doomsday clock. At least I haven't seen any news about it.

The 2024 Doomsday Clock announcement

Watch the Clock unveiling live on January 23 at 10 a.m. EST.

Soon

[Strongpoint]

Iran bombs everyone but... Israel they swear to destroy. Isn't it cute?

This happens when you know that there will be a massive response from Israel but expect nothing substantial from others. Being strong works when dealing with predators, "deescalation" doesn't.

[bloop_bleep]

As of today none of Gaza's 36 pre-war hospitals are fully functioning.

I don't think any number of "civilian shields" justifies letting thousands of children bleed to death because there isn't staff available to help them, while also starving, undergoing epidemics, and having their homes bombed out with their families in them.

EDIT: Oh, and both Republicans and Democrats in the US House on relevant committees express concern that Netanyahu is stringing out the war for personal political benefit.

[Strongpoint]

Yes, this is horrible

But what is your solution? Do you propose to not engage with Hamas in hospitals giving them an absolutely safe area to strike from?

[Il Palazzo]

Iran bombs everyone but... Israel they swear to destroy. Isn't it cute?

This happens when you know that there will be a massive response from Israel but expect nothing substantial from others. Being strong works when dealing with predators, "deescalation" doesn't.

You think the nearly 1000km between their borders has nothing to do with it?

[Strongpoint]

Iran bombs everyone but... Israel they swear to destroy. Isn't it cute?

This happens when you know that there will be a massive response from Israel but expect nothing substantial from others. Being strong works when dealing with predators, "deescalation" doesn't.

You think the nearly 1000km between their borders has nothing to do with it?

Iran has ballistic missiles with this range. And drones.

[Elephant Parade]

Israel is a US ally. That's the real deterrent.

[McTraveller]

Yes, this is horrible

But what is your solution? Do you propose to not engage with Hamas in hospitals giving them an absolutely safe area to strike from?

I suppose in retrospect, you could have made Israel state-sponsored hospitals, or set up alternative ones, to provide "secure" medical services before bombing the other buildings.

Even simpler, just have a force sweep through the hospital building to secure it, and only if that force gets attacked would you consider bombing the structure.  I think honest medical professionals would be annoyed by having soldiers running around the facility but they aren't going to shoot back.

There are lots of alternatives there.

[hector13]

Strongpoint believes that the ceasefire was trading Israeli soldiers lives for those of the hostages, he’s not going to think trading Israeli soldiers lives for people he believes are responsible for harboring Hamas are worth that either.

[Strongpoint]

I suppose in retrospect, you could have made Israel state-sponsored hospitals, or set up alternative ones, to provide "secure" medical services before bombing the other buildings.

Do you mean pre-war? It is impossible. You can't put them in Gaza because it requires occupation or else doctors would be killed on the spot. Having backup hospitals on the border with Gaza is unfeasible, you can't have fully staffed hospitals just in case you need to treat Gazans in a war.

Even simpler, just have a force sweep through the hospital building to secure it, and only if that force gets attacked would you consider bombing the structure.

More or less what Israel is doing. They are not bombing hospitals indiscriminately. Here totally not pro-Israeli source (rather outdated but we are getting more of the same)  - https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/destruction-of-medical-infrastructure-in-gaza - it includes only two direct strikes, most hospitals are taken in ground combat. This approach still damages hospitals and\or makes them inoperable.


__________

What actually should be done? Other countries should accept refugees and provide their infrastructure. The border with Egypt should be open. Ships should be flocking to the Gaza Strip to accept refugees.

Why the world doesn't do that? The official reason is (IMO) hilarious! It will help Israel to ethnically cleanse Gaza!  Imagine if the EU went - we are closing borders with Ukraine because we don't want to help Putin to ethnically cleanse Ukraine! Absurd? Absurd. But it is the position of the world in the case of Gaza.

May Israel use the refugee crisis as a tool for ethnic cleansing and not let Gazan refugees back in after the war under some bogus excuse. It is very possible. But you know... people are dying there! Being exiled is better than being dead. And no one, no one is protesting demanding the world to accept Palestinian refugees. Why? WHY!? It is as if they care about Palestinian lives less than they care about politics.....

_______________

What Israel should do with the current health considering that no one is going to accept refugees from a war zone? Probably repair the damaged hospitals, bring Israeli staff, and give civilians safe access to them... Taking some to Israel to be treated in Israeli hospitals is probably also a good idea. But logistics and security implications make it very, very hard.

__________________

Strongpoint believes that the ceasefire was trading Israeli soldiers lives for those of the hostages,

It was. Mathematics of war is horrible. Lose-lose situations are common.

he’s not going to think trading Israeli soldiers lives for people he believes are responsible for harboring Hamas are worth that either.

Not true. I am all for reasonable effort to limit collateral damage even if it means more dead soldiers in your army. It is basic humanism. Keyword - reasonable. What is demanded from the Israeli Army is usually unreasonable.

[Strife26]

Yes, this is horrible

But what is your solution? Do you propose to not engage with Hamas in hospitals giving them an absolutely safe area to strike from?

I suppose in retrospect, you could have made Israel state-sponsored hospitals, or set up alternative ones, to provide "secure" medical services before bombing the other buildings.

Even simpler, just have a force sweep through the hospital building to secure it, and only if that force gets attacked would you consider bombing the structure.  I think honest medical professionals would be annoyed by having soldiers running around the facility but they aren't going to shoot back.

There are lots of alternatives there.

Yes, the magic "What if war wasn't war" alternatives. Entire world of things Israel could have done in that reality.

[hector13]

Yes, this is horrible

But what is your solution? Do you propose to not engage with Hamas in hospitals giving them an absolutely safe area to strike from?

I suppose in retrospect, you could have made Israel state-sponsored hospitals, or set up alternative ones, to provide "secure" medical services before bombing the other buildings.

Even simpler, just have a force sweep through the hospital building to secure it, and only if that force gets attacked would you consider bombing the structure.  I think honest medical professionals would be annoyed by having soldiers running around the facility but they aren't going to shoot back.

There are lots of alternatives there.

Yes, the magic "What if war wasn't war" alternatives. Entire world of things Israel could have done in that reality.

Well, if you want to go way back in the conflict they could have tried to win the hearts and minds of Gazans instead of putting in place a blockade and treating it like a prison camp. I imagine punishing Israeli settlers pushing out Palestinians (and others) from the West Bank would also have done some good.

You know, treating them like human beings instead of animals? This is just another example in a long line of Israel failing to meet its responsibilities as an occupying power.