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[Duke 2.0]

From a personal point of view, I've been killed way more by pyros after the update than before. The ones who aren't good with the AB are using the backburner and that thing does 150ish dps now not counting hits from behind.

You know, just the same as before.

 And note he did test other classes than the pyro, like the heavy who melee killed a pyro, the scout who scattergun killed the pyro, and the spy who brought him down to one health. Granted a shotgun test would be nice, but the point is still there.

 Also, I cannot accept tests being called bogus when you quote circumstantial evidence of gameplay, which differs depending on the kill of the players and the random nature of combat situations. Your evidence is no better than mine.

[SHAD0Wdump]

Did you even WATCH the video Duke posted?

Yes and bullshit tests are bullshit. It takes the weapon completely out of context, specially since it works different from a shotgun and has no reload times.

Are you kidding me? You watched the video and it showed optimal conditions. Meaning in real combat things could only get worse.

[umiman]

Guys, stop feeding the trolls.

[Soulwynd]

I saw the tests. But pyros don't stand still. Pyros don't come at you in the open. Pyros ambush. Yes, the dps for the flamethrower is lower and they have to work harder, but the dps for the backburner is higher and even so, if they do that, they will die.

And fuck, if you call that an optimal condition, you're insane. That's the -WORST- possible condition for a pyro. In the open face to face. It has always been.

And I'm not trolling. I'm going against this whining.

[Duke 2.0]

 You say the optimal conditions of a pyro are sneak attacks. This is crap. EVERY class works well under those conditions. Generally if you have the drop on somebody you will win. The difference being that the pyro has no skills that help him do that.

 And again, the Backburner is the exact same as before with less afterburn.

[Soulwynd]

Not really. an ambushing pyro can kill an entire group of people. Anyone else is lucky if they get one or two people.

Oh, btw, while loading a TF2 map you might get a nice cute hint with a pyro headshot saying something about the flamethrower and hiding around corners. It's a good hint by the tf2 team themselves.

[fenrif]

Not really. an ambushing pyro can kill an entire group of people. Anyone else is lucky if they get one or two people.

Oh, btw, while loading a TF2 map you might get a nice cute hint with a pyro headshot saying something about the flamethrower and hiding around corners. It's a good hint by the tf2 team themselves.

Engie, heavy, demoman.. Yeah none of those can kill a group of people with an ambush.

[ToonyMan]

Not really. an ambushing pyro can kill an entire group of people. Anyone else is lucky if they get one or two people.

Oh, btw, while loading a TF2 map you might get a nice cute hint with a pyro headshot saying something about the flamethrower and hiding around corners. It's a good hint by the tf2 team themselves.

Engie, heavy, demoman.. Yeah none of those can kill a group of people with an ambush.

Duke is right, I come around back with a Solider and they're losing a few good men.

[Soulwynd]

Only the demo is up there with a pyro, if he uses sticky traps well enough.

The heavy's shot get blocked by the person he's shooting at which makes it not that effective, plus he's slow and is likely to not survive it, the engie, well, he has to waste time setting up a sentry to ambush and most likely it will be level 1 and wont kill a group of people. By the time he's done with a level 3, the pyro will have ambushed and killed more people than his sentry will.

The pyro on the other hand, has a huge cone weapon which shots will pass through opponents and hit the next in line. A backburner from behind can kill an entire team in one second.

Duke is right, I come around back with a Solider and they're losing a few good men.

Not if there's a flamethrower pyro watching their backs.

but then again, not even another pyro would do well against that.

[ToonyMan]

Why would a pyro be watching his back?

[fenrif]

Only the demo is up there with a pyro, if he uses sticky traps well enough.

The heavy's shot get blocked by the person he's shooting at which makes it not that effective, plus he's slow and is likely to not survive it, the engie, well, he has to waste time setting up a sentry to ambush and most likely it will be level 1 and wont kill a group of people. By the time he's done with a level 3, the pyro will have ambushed and killed more people than his sentry will.

The pyro on the other hand, has a huge cone weapon which shots will pass through opponents and hit the next in line. A backburner from behind can kill an entire team in one second.

Duke is right, I come around back with a Solider and they're losing a few good men.

Not if there's a flamethrower pyro watching their backs.

but then again, not even another pyro would do well against that.

So now theres artificial time limits on the ambush? If the engie hasn't set up his sentry properly then it's not an ambush. By that logic I could argue that pyros can't ambush people because they may be low on ammo, or be taunting, or will have low health because someone shot him on the way to his ambush.

And believe me a heavy can take down a decent sized group of people if he catches them unawares. The shots dont get blocked because the minigun has a huge cone of fire, and you dont need to be fast to fill a corridor/room with bullets.

[Mr.Person]

I saw the tests. But pyros don't stand still. Pyros don't come at you in the open. Pyros ambush. Yes, the dps for the flamethrower is lower and they have to work harder, but the dps for the backburner is higher and even so, if they do that, they will die.

And fuck, if you call that an optimal condition, you're insane. That's the -WORST- possible condition for a pyro. In the open face to face. It has always been.

It's not possible to do a test that simulates real life like you seem to want. The whole point of the test is that the flamethrower does really shitty DPS, something that's backed up and agreed upon by pretty much all the community. Is the Pyro still deadly? Yeah, but he's also no longer a serious threat. I used to occasionally be able to get melee kills on Pyros; now I can melee Pyros with ease.

Also, Pyros ambushing is stupid. How are they supposed to ambush? What situation does a Pyro do well that a Scout can't do just as well at or better?

[SHAD0Wdump]

Only the demo is up there with a pyro, if he uses WINBOMBS and PIPES well enough.

The heavy's shot get blocked by the person he's shooting at which makes it not that effective, plus he's slow and is likely to not survive it
Forgetting his minigun has a flippin' huge 500+ DPS at point blank? Pyro can't touch that.
, the engie, well, he has to waste time setting up a sentry to ambush and most likely it will be level 1 and wont kill a group of people. By the time he's done with a level 3, the pyro will have ambushed and killed more people than his sentry will.
He could plop one down and go in shotgun blazing, he could take out a few fellers. But yeah, I'm not seeing why he's in the list. After all, he's in the defense class bordering on support.

The pyro on the other hand, has a huge cone weapon which shots will pass through opponents and hit the next in line. A backburner from behind can kill an entire team in one second.
If they are lined up perfectly in a mambo line maybe. But ridiculous overblown assumptions aside, yes he's got that. But I refer you back to that 500+ DPS heavy...

[Jreengus]

The pyro's shot not getting blocked can hardly be considered an advantage. Compared to say the spy , who will have a better chance of getting into position, the pyro's flamethrower will deal high damage to the first ambush target. The cone of flame will travel through the victim but unless all the enemies are packed as close together as possible it will deal only minimal damage to the rest of the group resulting in it warning them without threatening them, they turn around and kill the pyro. A spy in the same situation can chain backstabs on most of the group killing instantly without alerting any of the others unless they are exceptionally alert.

[Satarus]

Flamethrower not being blocked is only useful when you are trying to take out a spy in the milddle of a SG farm.  The SG and other buildings tend to block the splash damage of a solly's rockets or demo's stickies.  Overall, the damage nerf to the flamethrower really hurt most pyros.  The ones who are proficient at reflecting rockets are pretty deadly, but heavies and SGs stop them dead in their tracks.