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[Enzo]

Tangentially related spy anecdote. Last night I was playing spy and saw an enemy soldier shuffle out of spawn. No one else was around so I decided to tail him. A fraction of a second before I enter backstab range he rocket jumps, with a random crit, and instagibs me. Do not even tell me playing spy doesn't depend on luck.

[Duke 2.0]

Nonsense. Those two especially require a "get behind enemy lines" strategy. Knowing the map is 70% for these.

The spy yes, he does require getting behind people and has tools for this job. He still dies a lot to bullshit. Like rocket jumping soldiers yeah. Or a pyro turning a corner the moment you go around it, or a heavy turning around to gun you down for no reason, or the moment you chose to uncloak somebody turns a corner and spots you.

 Pyro has no tools for getting behind enemy lines(And don't give me the health/speed ratio bullshit again), although he does have a tool for controlling enemy movement that requires him to be in the range where all other classes out-DPS him.

 They are well-designed classes with excellent balance and all that, but there is no way to work around bad luck. It's sorta true for every game really, you never know if an entire enemy team is just around the corner or have the tools for dealing with it. I think some classes just have an easy time putting the blame on these random events instead of skill.

[mr. macduggan]

With degreaser/axetinguisher there is no reason to be doing less than 250 damage per second unless it's an opposing pyro. Then you use shotgun for them with about 140-180 dps. of course, heavies do >500 dps at point blank, but that's what airblast is for. Sentries are a simple no-go for this loadout though.


EDIT: ALSO- listening to the game audio, watching kill notifications, and trying to know which positions and portions of the map are "held but vacant" "held and occupied by passers by" "held by a standing force" or "held with a sentry gun" will save you a TON of deaths. If you see corpses, that should be a sign. If you hear bullets, that's a sign too. TF2 actually does a pretty good job with map awareness if you try hard.

[Enzo]

I'm tired of all this "pryo's are underpowered" crap I keep hearing.

Could an underpowered class do this?

_{Really I just wanted to post that video.}

[Duke 2.0]

I'm tired of all this "pryo's are underpowered" crap I keep hearing.

You are gonna keep hearing it, no video is gonna change it. The W+M1 video supposedly caused a lot of the nerfs that happened, so I hope one isn't used as evidence again.

_{(The video is pretty cool though.)}

[MrWiggles]

The pryo isn't underpowered. I play pyro primarily, well, if you look at my hours of play, solely just about.

And the class is great, if you use him right. Thats the key word there, use him right. My load out is Flamethrower, Detonator, and Homewrecker.

I'm an agressive offensive pyro, who knows how to use his airblast for defense and support.

[hemmingjay]

I am a pretty good pyro, consistently score 10-18 per life. I use the backburner exclusively and know how and where to ambush. Sometimes I will just harass the enemy just before my team makes a big push so they are all healing while we stroll deep into their territory. Properly used I think the 3 man of heavy-medic-pyro is unstoppable.

[Enzo]

Upon conducting further research into the Pyro's complete gamebreaking overpoweredness, I have compiled more video evidence that may be of interest.

Pyro's actually one of my lesser-played-classes, but in the right situations switching to Pyro can have amazing results.

[ToonyMan]

more video evidence

You deserve every view.

[Siquo]

The spy yes, he does require getting behind people and has tools for this job. He still dies a lot to bullshit. Like rocket jumping soldiers yeah. Or a pyro turning a corner the moment you go around it, or a heavy turning around to gun you down for no reason, or the moment you chose to uncloak somebody turns a corner and spots you.

So does every other class. Being aware of your surroundings before you decloak for instance might help you a bit. Places where soldiers rocket jump are pretty known as well.

Pyro has no tools for getting behind enemy lines(And don't give me the health/speed ratio bullshit again),

No, therefore: know thy mappe.

A lot of detour routes are hardly ever used and usually have a lot of corners, making them ideal for the pyro to get behind or flank the enemy bulk. Once the emeny knows that trick (and put up a sentry there), do something else for a little while and return to the trick when they get bored of waiting for you again. Adapting to your enemy's movements is key.

I vehemently disagree that luck is a greater factor in these two classes than in any other class. That would mean I have an extraordinary amount of luck, and that's just very improbable...

[Jackrabbit]

Yeah, you can usually figure out ahead of time what route the enemy are using to get to you. If they're using a teleporter, there's even less chance they'll take any other route, leaving you free to move around. I agree with Siquo, get to know the map and most of the time you're laughing.

[mr. macduggan]

This tutorial for pyro explains my playstyle exactly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n46_txgQF2I&list=FLncoUoEY-2aNpf8s37w7AoQ&index=8&feature=plpp
(sorry I don't know how to condense the link like kinseti, but this sums up my playstyle well)

[Duke 2.0]

So does every other class. Being aware of your surroundings before you decloak for instance might help you a bit. Places where soldiers rocket jump are pretty known as well.

Standing here for a minute, observing enemy movement from a corner. Seems a huge respawn wave just passed, nobody around, seems like a safe time to decloak and there is no information indicating this is a bad ti-
 Oh, just as you clicked the button a soldier rounds the corner. GG. And there are no "Rocket jump spots" They can be used for a ton of different things from very much anywhere. If a soldier just wants to cover some distance real fast they can do it with no higher ledges in sight. Unless you limit 'smart' spy play to only narrow hallways.

No, therefore: know thy mappe.

A lot of detour routes are hardly ever used and usually have a lot of corners, making them ideal for the pyro to get behind or flank the enemy bulk. Once the emeny knows that trick (and put up a sentry there), do something else for a little while and return to the trick when they get bored of waiting for you again. Adapting to your enemy's movements is key.

It all depends on the map and again, luck. Some maps are terribly designed for ambush classes. You will have one main path and if you are lucky an alternative path that separates from the main one a little bit before joining back with it. And everyone knows the maps, so everyone knows the ambush positions.
 And the usual issue of other ambush classes taking the second of two possible paths, or a heavy deciding to be an ambush class because he is far more suited for it.

 I have no way of quantifying enemy player skill without it being immensely douchey and insulting, but that is a good possibility.

[mr. macduggan]

Yeah, the main problem I have with pyro (which you can clearly see I'm an advocate of) is that if there is a map like Badwater where there aren't many alternate routes, I have to play defense (even for the offensive team, just picking off stragglers into our territory). For that reason, I much prefer to play on open maps like KOTH, CTF, or CP because there truly are different routes. And anyway, A good pyro should be able to beat most classes in a straight up fight. To be honest, lately I've been winning most duels versus heavies with my axetinguisher by strafing around their side while attacking. Demoknights are easy to kill, snipers/spies/medics are sitting ducks, soldiers and demomen are a situational match, but if you can reflect/engage in a tight space/surprise them, they will go down. Engineers wall a pyro without an ubercharge, and often even when the pyro has one, though, so you really can't do direct assault.
SO YEAH. It works for me for certain. Versus a heavy you should be able to set him alight and axe him once by the time he's done spinning up, then you just have to live long enough to hit him again. The degreaser multiplies your dps by amazing amounts in quick encounters like that.

[MrWiggles]

Yeah, the main problem I have with pyro (which you can clearly see I'm an advocate of) is that if there is a map like Badwater where there aren't many alternate routes, I have to play defense (even for the offensive team, just picking off stragglers into our territory). For that reason, I much prefer to play on open maps like KOTH, CTF, or CP because there truly are different routes. And anyway, A good pyro should be able to beat most classes in a straight up fight. To be honest, lately I've been winning most duels versus heavies with my axetinguisher by strafing around their side while attacking. Demoknights are easy to kill, snipers/spies/medics are sitting ducks, soldiers and demomen are a situational match, but if you can reflect/engage in a tight space/surprise them, they will go down. Engineers wall a pyro without an ubercharge, and often even when the pyro has one, though, so you really can't do direct assault.
SO YEAH. It works for me for certain. Versus a heavy you should be able to set him alight and axe him once by the time he's done spinning up, then you just have to live long enough to hit him again. The degreaser multiplies your dps by amazing amounts in quick encounters like that.

I agree that Badwater doesnt have a lot of alternative routes, but the pyro can make use of all of them quite effectively. When I play on Badwater, I never feel the urge to play defensively. A favor tactic of mine when the cart is on the roof (when offensive) is leap from the roof onto the enemies below. When defensive, a single pyro can effectively hold the roof fairly well, with its limited number of entrances, and the airblast. When the cart is moving down the freaken large ramp, I'll often be keeping the cart steady in position, even if its a sucide run, using my air blast to beat down the defensive line. If I know there are snipers, I'll start to harasses them with my dentator, I try to make sure that the side corner is free of engy shenanigans.

Now, open maps, are kinda meh for my style.  Since the Pyro is close fighter, the open map is a disadvantage to him. I find myself, lacking a focus to charge, like in Thunder Mountain. The enemies are harder to know where they are.