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[mr. macduggan]

While I agree that open maps are bad for pyro, choke points are worse. I still enjoy playing badwater servers if I choose my battles, but the thing about koth etc is that you retain freedom of movement. There's nowhere on the map that spells instant death for you.

[PTTG??]

Well, a pyro that is actually hiding in a choke point is in his natural habitat. Nothing better than having swarms of enemies turn a blind corner into your flames.

[Nilocy]

Does anyone know if theres a file that the inbuilt TF2 map vote chooses maps from? The DFC server seems to only choose community maps now a days :/

[Duke 2.0]

Well, a pyro that is actually hiding in a choke point is in his natural habitat. Nothing better than having swarms of enemies turn a blind corner into your flames.

And then proceed to kill you with no means of escape. Except killing everyone. Good luck with that. If it's like the first point of Thunder Mountain then you might get away with an airblast, but soldiers and demomen could still likely blow you up before you can escape.

[Siquo]

Well, a pyro that is actually hiding in a choke point is in his natural habitat.

Common misconception. The natural habitat of a pyro is right behind the main force of the enemy, just before they want to make their push.

Oh god I love those scenes. Fire all around you and everyone's so confused that you can even get a few mailbox hits in before you're killed. After that you get a support kill for everyone else because your team thought it'd be nice to rack up some kills in a field of half-dead enemies. Oh... the glory... 

[Duke 2.0]

 I dunno, I think a pyro works well either supporting your own team in various ways or roaming and picking off solo targets in hallways. He has powerful tools for working with multiple targets and hurting everything around him, but he's just so squishy at that range and lacks any tools for making up for that. And airblast can only really deal with one opponent 100% of the time, you cannot deal with two soldiers or demomen at once unless you got lucky and a reflected projectile crits them both.

 I think I would have more respect for airblast if it made any damn sense. Does it have a minimum range? Only way I can explain videos of people airblasting projectiles in ways that have killed me countless times. I have pulled off the "Kill somebody behind me with an airblast" thing, but front airblasts seem to be chance-based.

[Siquo]

Airblasts are completely luck-based, just like the entire class.

[Thexor]

Airblasts are completely luck-based, just like the entire class.

Wait, what? Luck-based as in, trying to time them? The people who play on Dodgeball servers beg to differ - if you can see the rocket coming, it's possible to reflect. Even at close range - most soldiers will fire as fast as possible, so you can learn the time between shots and reflect shots that would normally be too close to hit.

Do you mean aiming whatever you reflect? It's just like aiming a normal rocket. Heck, if you really know what you're doing, it's possible to rocket-jump with reflected rockets (seriously, don't try this at home until you're pretty confident), which works surprisingly well.

Or do you mean when airblasting people into the air? Completely luck-independent; heavy classes don't move as far, walls stop their movement.


So, really: How are airblasts luck-based? I mean, sure, if you have no clue how to time them, they're luck-based; same with every other weapon in the game, when you're unskilled with them. Headshots, pipe bomb hits, rockets - half the game is 'luck-based' if you haven't yet figured out how to use it properly.

[Siquo]

Sorry, that statement needed a sarcasm sign.
I really try never to be sarcastic, again

But... if you would have read the entire conversation (or at least 13 posts) before that one post, you'd have noticed.

[mr. macduggan]

yeah. The real power of airblast lies in being able to say "no. you can't go through that doorway. I'd rather axe you instead. Have fun careening into a corner and dying!" The projectile reflect is a welcome, but hard-to-master bonus.

[Thexor]

Sorry, that statement needed a sarcasm sign.
I really try never to be sarcastic, again

But... if you would have read the entire conversation (or at least 13 posts) before that one post, you'd have noticed.

Eh, sorry. I'm not so good at spotting text-sarcasm, and couldn't remember which side of the debate you were on. 

[HLBeta]

I'm just sick of ambushing soldiers and demomen, getting a few backburner crits before having them whip around and kill us both with a rocket/grenade. That frustrates me to no end. I go and WORK for my kills only to have this guy wreck the whole thing in ONE CLICK.

That aside, I still think that making pyros immune to close-range damage ramp-up is a great idea. It should permit them to be a bit more agressive in their supposed area of excellence without totally wrecking balance.

[Tyler6498]

Decided to pop up a video of me playing spy since no one's defended the spy on the topic at hand. I don't think I'm the greatest spy ever but I enjoy playing spy and find it to be a real benefit to the team if done in a non greedy fashion...although I will admit my revolver skill was LACKING that match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m1gjUDYZD0&feature=channel_video_title

End match details: 8v8, roughly 6:30 minutes, 15 kills, 1 assist, 1 capture, 1 life

[Siquo]

Funny how you also get the spy vs spy effect: If the top-killer of a team is a spy, suddenly people on both teams start playing spy as well

[Duke 2.0]

Even at close range - most soldiers will fire as fast as possible, so you can learn the time between shots and reflect shots that would normally be too close to hit.

Unless there is lag on their end, or they have slow reaction times, or other latency shenanigans. There are general timings and feelings to follow when trying this, but they are easily made useless by stuff most people suffer from.

 I will admit that I have not ever figured out the correct airblast timing for a projectile heading straight towards me, and every video I have seen of it being done was from the same zone where I always fail. There is a bit of a sore side there. Everything else is legit.

 Airblasting people is fine and dandy until they suddenly realize in a zen-like moment, my god, I just need to shoot them. Only really works when you are taking advantage of cover and corners to keep them away from having a good LoS on you. Unless it's a corner of a hallway then they just turn the corner again and shoot you as you are halfway towards an escape.

 One can be successful as a Pyro when the powers that be work in your favor, where pretty much any class can work well. But in every situation I see the Pyro go into he survives because the other players failed to either aim, react to the situation or the foe was already at a disadvantage. Every time I attempt an ambush it is weak due to inherent weaknesses with the class which other ambushing classes don't have.

 Honestly, just let him have a class-based advanced mobility jump. Like an airblast jump. It's a pyro, having them be able to ascend a ledge is not a problem. Him jumping over the battlefield isn't a problem wither because he is completely harmless when in the air and at half health when he lands. This is like giving the Scout the Brass Beast: It doesn't matter that it's a minigun on a scout, it has enough downsides that synergize with his other weaknesses to make it not a problem for anybody.