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Author Topic: Stonesense - Old Official thread - Now locked  (Read 1696469 times)

Jiri Petru

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #510 on: November 05, 2009, 08:11:59 am »

This visauliser looks fantastic! Unfortunatelly, I can't get it to work... It runs normally for a few seconds and then it crashes. The log reports there was an error in msvcr80.dll. At first I though it might be an invalid installation on my part, so I reinstaller Microsoft .NET (that's where msvcr80.dll is right?) but it didn't work.

I tried in on a different computer, which resulted in the very same error. This makes me think it probably isn't an error on the coputer's side.

Anyway, here is the error log. I wonder if anyone could help me. Thanks!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Yours,
Markus Cz. Clasplashes

kaypy

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #511 on: November 05, 2009, 09:01:03 am »

There are no fish or anything near that tile, and I can assure you that I have no water walking Jesus-donkeys in my fortress, so I don't know what's going on. Any clue what I'm doing wrong?
If you see it again (or still), could you get some shots of what is going on in the DF window (preferably a z level either side, too) so we can see if theres anything that might be causing it.

Hmm. You didnt have a donkey die there at some stage did you? (theres a mode that shows dead critters, too)
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kaypy

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #512 on: November 05, 2009, 09:05:18 am »

Stonesense doesn't know about objects at all yet; that'll require more advancement in the dfhack library.
At this stage I could make a generic "some unknown object" indicator- there is a occupancy flag for 'this tile contains an object'.

Would this be worthwhile even if it couldnt provide any information on what the object is?
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FlexibleDogma

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SirPenguin

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #515 on: November 05, 2009, 10:08:11 am »

And Destructoid

http://www.destructoid.com/new-stonesense-visualizer-makes-dwarf-fortress-playable-154149.phtml

Grats, duders! Though I do wonder at what point does this project start making Toady very nervous
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dyze

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #516 on: November 05, 2009, 10:14:43 am »

And Destructoid

http://www.destructoid.com/new-stonesense-visualizer-makes-dwarf-fortress-playable-154149.phtml

Grats, duders! Though I do wonder at what point does this project start making Toady very nervous

so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.
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Ampersand

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #518 on: November 05, 2009, 10:42:35 am »

Wow, just, damn. Crazy. It'll be interesting to see how this effects google trends, with this rather sudden bump in the news.
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!!&!!

kurokikaze

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #519 on: November 05, 2009, 11:00:30 am »

The one on gamer.ru is mine :)
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Too many foes, we feel snakebit, and we won't take it
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Nilocy

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #520 on: November 05, 2009, 11:53:00 am »

"If you ever wished that Dwarf Fortress ever looked like FarmVille," erm...

Yes, this is awesome. But unfortunately I refuse to play DF until the new verions here :(
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Jotaf

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #521 on: November 05, 2009, 12:04:14 pm »

so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.

Well, I just posted about a possible way for Stonesense to improve DF's GUI; but it got caught in the stream of new posts... :P

Here:
I understand that developing it into a GUI would be a nice feature in the long term. But what if there was an easy way to control DF with the mouse? It wouldn't be a fully-featured GUI -- it would always be managed by DF -- but it would certainly bring a better GUI back to the short-term goals. The most annoying aspect is moving the cursor, so I'm sure lots of folks would kill to have it controlled by the mouse; but if the commands were clickable too it would also be great. Well, it just might be possible...

First, the commands. They obey rigid structures: there's usually the associated key to the left of the command description, after a colon; or to the far right, as in lists. If your program could access DF's display, and assuming the panel is fixed or known, so that clicks in the main view don't count: a click in a non-space character, or in a space between characters (ie, between words) is a command click. Now, just follow that row to the left, until you hit a colon, and the letter/word after that is the key your program must simulate for DF to issue the clicked command. If none is found, the command must be to the far right, like in lists.

This alone would let you click most commands in DF, turning GUI navigation into a breeze.

Secondly, the cursor. The basic behavior would be simply to record internally the last position of the cursor and turn a click into a series of presses of the appropriate keys: delta_x = click_x - cursor_x (in tiles), then if delta_x>0 press right delta_x times; if delta_x<0 press left -delta_x times. (Likewise for y). However, since the view can change, you'd also have to take its position into account. This would be a possibility whenever Stonesense is able to synchronize with DF's view by keeping track of its position.

What do you think? Too ambitious? I think it would be nice even if implemented in a very crude and simple way...

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1138

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #522 on: November 05, 2009, 01:10:30 pm »

If you see it again (or still), could you get some shots of what is going on in the DF window (preferably a z level either side, too) so we can see if theres anything that might be causing it.

Hmm. You didnt have a donkey die there at some stage did you? (theres a mode that shows dead critters, too)
Sure. FYI, when I press v the nearest creature is a peasant all the way across the map.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's still there whenever I start Stonesense. I'm pretty sure a donkey hasn't died there. I should have mentioned that it's way in the NW corner of the map where the program starts, and my fortress is way in the SE. Nobody really goes up there, and even ambushes are usually discovered much closer to the fortress.

pretty donkey :D
Thanks! If anyone's interested, I can post the tiles I'm making for my game here. I can't promise quality of any kind, though--I'm pretty new at this.
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Solifuge

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #523 on: November 05, 2009, 01:18:55 pm »



Huzzah! An animated Windmill that links appropriately with Mechanisms!
Yeah, its a simple 2-frame affair, and looks kinda like it jiggs back and forth until your brain is fooled by the illusion, but there you go!



Now, on to more serious business.

In my mind (Jonas might say differently), this is first and foremost a low-requirement Visualization tool; without Tarn stating that he is okay with us taking Stonesense in the direction of a GUI, I'm not going to push for it.

Through our participation in the development process of Dwarf Fortress, we all start to feel a little sense of ownership of the game... we've suggested features, tested for bugs, designed mods, spread publicity, and ultimately supported Tarn in this monumental effort. We all need to remember, however, that this is still Tarn's project, not ours, and it's an unpaid project at that. No matter how excited we all get about Dwarf Fortress, it's not at all fair to push him to do something that he doesn't want done... and he has already voiced his apprehensions about 3rd party graphical interfaces, and how that would impact the project.

Judging by how several on-line communities are viewing this project, especially the folks who say "Wow, now I might try Dwarf Fortress now!" or "I think I could finally get my friends to try this!" one can see that there is definitly a demand for a more accessable interface. Heck, I've even had friends I know in person say that this would get them into the game way more. The problem is that, if players start to rely on such a 3rd-party interface, the team designing it would have to be as dedicated as Tarn with updates and new features, or such an interface would have to be officially adopted... and collaboration is something he has also expressed great reservations about, as this is his brainchild.

But yes, in the universe where we are given the go-ahead from Tarn, interpreting mouse and key input with Stonesense, and translating it to input for DF would probably be the way to go. I'd imagine that drop-down menus for Constructions (a simple point-and-click for designating mining, sizing bridges, laying out roads and walls, etc.) would be doable, though anything beyond that depends entirely on the degree to we can interface with the program itself.

For now, though, the thing that keeps us from even being able to consider a GUI is the wealth of graphical issues that still need ironing out. We need tile rotations, fixes for some of the graphical hiccups such as the "Escher Effect", and a -Lot- more tiles and sprites. For now, focus on that, and if we can eventually pitch a solid visual display and interface to Tarn, and prove that this is a dedicated project, maybe we'll see such a thing down the road.
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Crossroads Inc.

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Re: Stonesense - The isometric visualizer, official thread
« Reply #524 on: November 05, 2009, 01:34:39 pm »

Here here.. We need to remember exactly what this game is about.. Mostly it is Independent, uncontrolled and FREE.
No matter what "we may want, we must all remember that it belongs to Tarn. 

What is being built here should at its core be nothing more then something to enhance the game as it currently stands.  As oyu mention Soul there is SO much more work to do before we should even consider anything more. 

And on that note, is there a full list of All the sprites yet to be done?
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Ask not what the Dwarfs can do for you...
But ask.... why are they drunk all the time?
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