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[Captain Mayday]

Right now, traders and diplomats will walk directly over traps, despite not having any right knowing they're there.
While this is generally a good thing, some time ago there was a bug where they also suffered the effects of traps.
I for one enjoyed the challenge of creating a fortress that could be defended while not tearing apart the diplomats and traders.

Now, after a brief discussion on the IRC channel, there was a couple ways figured on doing this:
1) make the trapavoid optional in the init file.
2) put an option in-game to inform the foreigners on how to avoid your traps.

Having the latter may eventually lead to the traps becoming known to your true enemies, and thereby becoming useless. Until a framework exists for that to occur, it may just be best to have the first as a placeholder.

[eerr]

almost nothing has long-term memories ingame, short of nobles and entities.

should fit under goblin entities that have good relations with traders.
(does that even happen?)

[Geb]

Since there wouldn't be any sensible way to handle migrants and traps other than to assume that they won't trip them, it could be a reasonable idea to make all dwarfs, including the caravans, know how to avoid dwarf-made traps. Humans and elves would be a different matter.

If this was to happen, I would suggest tweaking the liason meeting behaviour a bit too, so that it happens at the trade depot. You're really, really going to want some way to prevent the liason from wandering inside to a random part of the fort if all your traps are now internal and dangerous.

[Pilsu]

Traps that hit everything regardless of affiliation would work too. As long as you can turn them off somehow of course.

[NW_Kohaku]

A master trap on/off lever and/or pressure plate?

Considering some of the Improved Mechanics/Traps stuff that's in the devpages, traps will be changing from something that just triggers whenever something steps on it, and deals damage into involved engineering projects.  Stonefall traps, for example, will no longer simply be tiles that deal damage, but will have to involve actually placing stones above a trap, and have those stones capable of rolling if they fall on a ramp.  (Cue Dwarven Marble Madness.)

Weapon traps are supposed to now require multi-tile construction, and require your specifically engineering it to automatically reset them.

All-in-all, new traps sound more and more like they will become similar to spike traps - indiscriminate, and requiring more hands-on involvement in their construction.

[Lord Darkstar]

But it is trivial to design an entrance path for traders that is protected only by a drawbridge and an air moat. Or a couple of such things, so you could "shut in" traders, and have attackers path through your "trapped" entrances to get chewed up by your brillantly designed and layed out trap halls.

I can understand the desire to wanting your migrants to suffer the wrath of your traps--- darn dirty migrates showing up just to laze around and swill all the good booze!--- but they too could then be allowed in through the "untrapped" (or just cage trapped) entrance when you are ready for some new dwarves to be put to work. Works out well, as far as I'm concerned. Only down side I see is--- how do your fortress dwarves, especially the small ones, learn how to avoid the traps?

[Pilsu]

You could just use traffic zoning on the triggers. Flashing immigrants shouldn't respect such, much like other foreigners.

Got a source on that Kohaku?

[NW_Kohaku]

It's in the Devpages.

Improved Mechanics

• Better traps
• Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
• Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
• Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism
• Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids
• Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
• Waterproof axles through some mechanism
• Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters

As for "marble madness"

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1413312#msg1413312
and
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1424448#msg1424448

[mLegion]

Have the liason arrive earlier then the caravan and give us one of those talk screens with option to:
a - welcome them. (They arrive like normal and they avoid your traps then trade)
b - Pretend to welcome them. (They arrive like normal but can run into your traps and be looted, if you do not engage in hostilities or trap them they trade and leave like normal never knowing you where considering it.)
c - Inform them that you have nothing to trade right now. (Diplomatic not interested)
d - Tell him and his caravan to F*ck off. (You have no problem ending up at war with them.)

The liason takes your reply back to the caravan and they show up or don't depending on your answer.
Since the liason has to return to deliver your reply, option b will result in their civ suspecting foul play.

[Hyndis]

You can do that with complex traps. Spike traps linked to a repeater will skewer anything. Same thing with pit traps or magma/water drowning traps.

[Sunken]

I've said it before: Traps need to be dumber and enemies need to be smarter. If dwarfs can avoid them when they know they're there, enemies should be able to as well.
A couple of suggestions:
* Traps can be built "avoidable" or "nonavoidable". Nonavoidable traps can still be circumvented by the lucky and/or nimble, but avoidable ones can be safely circumvented by anyone who knows they're there. Dwarfs won't path across nonavoidable trap tiles.
* Traps are tagged as "revealed" to each faction that has seen them in action or actually constructed them in the first place, or discovered them pre-emptively. A goblin party who lost its vanguard to an nonavoidable trap will path around it. An avoidable one they will just bypass like the dwarfs.
* Trapped tiles splattered with blood and gore are easier to detect and circumvent.

[Hyndis]

Would enemies consider a known trap to be an impassible tile? If so the standard entrance design of filling the entire entrance with weapon traps would mean that the invaders would no longer be able to path into your fortress.

If the cost to path onto a known trap tile is just increased, much like low or restricted traffic paths are for dwarves, they will still walk onto the trap if there are no other ways to go around it. In the case of most fortresses where there is only a single entrance that means the only path to get to your dining hall full of Urists would be through that field of traps. This is just how traps currently work.

[NW_Kohaku]

Indeed, the fact that dwarves cannot trip their own traps unless they are unconscious or stunned, the general ease with which traps can be constructed, the lack of maintainance or any other drawback to creating large numbers of traps all guarantee that essentially every player who doesn't avoid using traps out of a desire to increase the challenge will simply carpet his entryway in stonefall traps.

Really, the only solution is for goblins to send in "10-foot polemen" to walk in front of the seiges, triggering all the traps they can.

[cephalo]

I like the idea of traps affecting everyone who enters the tile, and setting active and inactive states with a lever.

[Sunken]

Would enemies consider a known trap to be an impassible tile?

Well, if it is an nonavoidable trap they would, in my suggestion.

If so the standard entrance design of filling the entire entrance with weapon traps would mean that the invaders would no longer be able to path into your fortress.

Like building a door, you mean?
But we have building destroyers that can deal with doors. We could have enemies that are allowed to path across traps (because they're too awesome to care, or because they're capable of disarming or at least wiggling around them).

But the "higher cost" option has merit, too. It has the additional advantage that you don't need a different connectivity map for different factions (with different reveal states) then.