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Author Topic: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)  (Read 104737 times)

DarkThug

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #165 on: June 14, 2011, 05:46:45 pm »

This mod is awesome !! I love running my litle doggie camp against the world.
I, however, suffer similar problem with Qwernt. I'm still not sure what is what.
While a full wiki site may be abit overkill. More detailed readme would be greatly appreciate.
Like what have you changed in this mod. How kobold behave differently than Dwarf. What abilitiy/building is removed/added included those you get from other mod.

For now I will just throw in my questions here :)

Religion : So there is an altar workshop, but what does it do exactly ? I saw many mod mention religion as well, but I still have no idea what is its function since this it the 1st DF mod I try (cuz it sound neatest of all :p). My guess is that religion&altar in KC is currently in simply for flavor without any function ?

Sawmill : I saw Qwernt mentioned that we can turn 1 WoodStalk into 1 block. I can't seem to find the way to this. I can only turn 4 stalk into 1 log and then a log into 2 blocks. So, 2 stalk for 1 block. Did I miss something ?
Also, It seem that stripping stalks into a log doesn't leave behind stalk's seed. If that is the case, How can I make sustainial tree farm ? since I will need to rely on caravan's Woodstalk bulb.

Metalwork : Readme file suggest that Kobold can turn metal into weapon without smelting it into bar. Is that take place in Metalshaper and Armory ? I ordered some Tetrahedrite and Malachite from caravan but a copper weapon order in armory still red out. I can turn gold/silver ino trinkets fine but, somehow, I can't build a gold statue. Kobold will never ever able to deal with iron do they ?? ^^"

Soap : So what's up with soap ? Soap's workshop is nowhere in workshop's list. the usual b --> w --> S become Scrimshawer. Is soap industry removed from the game ? But my Kobold still get infected like normal. What can I do about it ? Or I just take it like a kobold.

Food : I get it now that Kobold is canivore. But do they eat egg ? Should I cook it as is or wait until it's hatch before slaughter it. What about milk ? Kobolds are still a mammal, aren't they ? ^^"

Looting : So some baddies start showing up. then I start killing them, looting them. But It seem that kobold can't equip boot ,glove ,cloak ,leather armor ? (yet to get my hand on breastplate) I believe this reduce a whole lot of favour from this mod. You loot all kind of equipment from invaders.....just to sell it ?? My elite axebold deserve a full set of plate and a shield together with batle axe if he survive that long.
Is it because bone armor and legguard ? are those two shape armor ??
I am still not sure what a kobold can and can't equip. I know they can't use a great axe (make sense, it may be way to big for a kobold) what about other weapon ? for example, a pike, can they use it ?
My kobold seem to be able to equip a bow just fine but is it diferent than a shortbow ? Can it use short arrow as ammunition ? Likewise, Can shortbow use regular arrow ??
I know that a bow use sword skill in melee. What about other thrown weapon ? Spear thrower and throwing glove, do they use spear/hammer skill in melee or unarmed one ??

Trading : Lastly I can't find the way to trade individual item in a container. I am not sure if it's this mod thing or DF thing and where to change its setting. It start to get annoying overtime that I can't sell a great axe but not other 9 chopper in that weapon bin of mine.

Construction : I didn't notice it in vanilla DF but can ash/potash be used as building material ? I discovered that burning vermins for ashes is another good way to obtain building materials (doesn't make any sense to me at all though lol)
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Dsarker

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #166 on: June 14, 2011, 07:12:47 pm »

As far as I know, kobolds are reptiles.
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jetex1911

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #167 on: June 14, 2011, 08:33:10 pm »

As far as I know, kobolds are reptiles.

They can be whatever you prefer.
I perfer the Doggy kind.  :P
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Put into this light, Dr. Robotnik and Armok could easily have been roommates.


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Qwernt

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #168 on: June 14, 2011, 11:24:46 pm »

answers/comments
Regarding the stalk->block reaction.  Did your woodworker shop have 2 reactions?  the second is the 4 stalks to 1 log.  The first is the stalk->block.
Not sure yet if kobs eat eggs, I was just letting the birds grow up and then slaughter (of course I have yet to have a camp make it that long).


Now for my quesiton
What happened to my enourmous screws?  I can't seem to make them... and without screws how can I build my massive traps???
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DarkThug

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Ability to build screw would mean ability to build water pump right ? Not to Koboldish if you ask me :p
For me who isn't that trap oriented, I don't have enough wood as it is I don't think I can spare any wood to build decent trap anytime soon. May be some weapon trap with looted weapon but that is it.

Yes, my wood processor does have 2 reaction. However, the 1st one is for turning 1 log not 1 stalk into 2 blocks sadly.

My current camp is in its 4th years. It just (barely) survives 3 consecutive seiges. Those damn goblins attack me me continuously through out my 3rd winter. My kobold fought valiantly without any trap and successfully fend off three goblin waves. not without a cost tho
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I lost like 40 or so Kobolds in this odeal with 30 more wounded. Out of my 24 remaining children 11 is destined to meet their doom in the near future with their mother death or too depress to come out and eat. (got to love how large their families are) Only a third of my camp able to perform any real function right now. Even my witchdoctor caught it in his guts and lie conciouslessly in his bed. I just name a random peasant to take his place together with some craftmen who somehow dabling in any medical field. We will see how many Kobold succumb to the infection. If my camp live long enough to see that day ^^"

The real problem, however, is that it is now summer. Seem like I missed my spring caravan during all these fighting. If the 4th siege come before I get supplies from summer caravan, my camp may be finished. I just emptied out my supply of arrow during last siege. I deforested the entire map long time ago. I initially have 8x20 woodstalk farm going on. but somehow all seeds are vanished. I never let any Kobold cook nor brew any woodstalk either.

I don't know about reptile kobold, but judging from description, DF kobold is definitely a doggy one :)
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Dsarker

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #170 on: June 15, 2011, 04:17:38 am »

I'm thinking more of the d&d kobolds, which definitely ARE trap oriented. Look up Tucker's kobolds.
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
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Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #171 on: June 15, 2011, 04:44:46 pm »

This mod is awesome !! I love running my litle doggie camp against the world.
I, however, suffer similar problem with Qwernt. I'm still not sure what is what.
While a full wiki site may be abit overkill. More detailed readme would be greatly appreciate.
Like what have you changed in this mod. How kobold behave differently than Dwarf. What abilitiy/building is removed/added included those you get from other mod.

For now I will just throw in my questions here :)

Religion : So there is an altar workshop, but what does it do exactly ? I saw many mod mention religion as well, but I still have no idea what is its function since this it the 1st DF mod I try (cuz it sound neatest of all :p). My guess is that religion&altar in KC is currently in simply for flavor without any function ?

Sawmill : I saw Qwernt mentioned that we can turn 1 WoodStalk into 1 block. I can't seem to find the way to this. I can only turn 4 stalk into 1 log and then a log into 2 blocks. So, 2 stalk for 1 block. Did I miss something ?
Also, It seem that stripping stalks into a log doesn't leave behind stalk's seed. If that is the case, How can I make sustainial tree farm ? since I will need to rely on caravan's Woodstalk bulb.

Metalwork : Readme file suggest that Kobold can turn metal into weapon without smelting it into bar. Is that take place in Metalshaper and Armory ? I ordered some Tetrahedrite and Malachite from caravan but a copper weapon order in armory still red out. I can turn gold/silver ino trinkets fine but, somehow, I can't build a gold statue. Kobold will never ever able to deal with iron do they ?? ^^"

Soap : So what's up with soap ? Soap's workshop is nowhere in workshop's list. the usual b --> w --> S become Scrimshawer. Is soap industry removed from the game ? But my Kobold still get infected like normal. What can I do about it ? Or I just take it like a kobold.

Food : I get it now that Kobold is canivore. But do they eat egg ? Should I cook it as is or wait until it's hatch before slaughter it. What about milk ? Kobolds are still a mammal, aren't they ? ^^"

Looting : So some baddies start showing up. then I start killing them, looting them. But It seem that kobold can't equip boot ,glove ,cloak ,leather armor ? (yet to get my hand on breastplate) I believe this reduce a whole lot of favour from this mod. You loot all kind of equipment from invaders.....just to sell it ?? My elite axebold deserve a full set of plate and a shield together with batle axe if he survive that long.
Is it because bone armor and legguard ? are those two shape armor ??
I am still not sure what a kobold can and can't equip. I know they can't use a great axe (make sense, it may be way to big for a kobold) what about other weapon ? for example, a pike, can they use it ?
My kobold seem to be able to equip a bow just fine but is it diferent than a shortbow ? Can it use short arrow as ammunition ? Likewise, Can shortbow use regular arrow ??
I know that a bow use sword skill in melee. What about other thrown weapon ? Spear thrower and throwing glove, do they use spear/hammer skill in melee or unarmed one ??

Trading : Lastly I can't find the way to trade individual item in a container. I am not sure if it's this mod thing or DF thing and where to change its setting. It start to get annoying overtime that I can't sell a great axe but not other 9 chopper in that weapon bin of mine.

Construction : I didn't notice it in vanilla DF but can ash/potash be used as building material ? I discovered that burning vermins for ashes is another good way to obtain building materials (doesn't make any sense to me at all though lol)

Religion: The altar at the moment does not have any reactions officially, as I put that in with intention to have a purpose but somehow managed to forget. thatkid has added in set of reactions and the like, and I will be adopting that (as well as making some additional ones) next release.

Sawmill: Seems like the sawdust mod bit has been addressed so I won't dwell on it; but the seeds seem to be an issue, apparently getting seeds back either was overlooked or isn't working. I'll address this as well for next release, ideally aimed at a :slight: dimishing return, so one would have to keep on eye on them in the caravan to keep a respectable farm going year round. Or maybe screw it and let giant farms run rampant.

Metalworking: This is -very- limited; while they can turn copper/gold whatever ORE into products, they can't work with malachite or any of those other things you turn into bars. I'll look over them and see how they work in practice, and while it is meant to be very limited, I'll change stuff if it doesn't make any sense as is.

Soap: I'll look into this newfangled 'soap' thing I've been hearing about. Till then, take it like a kobold.

Food: that's a good question. I do know they'll eat cooked food that had at least a little meat mixed in it (last I checked), but I don't know about eggs or milk. (Mention of what kobolds are are at the bottom of post.)

Looting: This is an idea I should investigate. At the moment it is true that you can't just pick up anything; due to sizes. That is, the breastplate of a human is just too big for a kobold to wear. It makes sense, as far as realism goes, but it is true that this does make it quite hard, and that you actually withstanding a siege goes unrewarded. I may test reactions to change any article of clothing (intended for large ones) into 'salvaged' versions of the same thing that kobolds can wear and use.

Trading: That is odd. Again, been awhile since I checked, but last I did each container listed all the seperate items (designated with an indentation to show it belongs to a container) that you could check off. Another point that I have -got- to do a thorough test play.

Building: Although I rarely play vanilla DF, I'm confident that the whole ash building thing is part of that. Strange, but I believe it's hardcoded and thus it'll be part of this mod as well. Someone correct me if this is wrong.

Now for my quesiton
What happened to my enourmous screws?  I can't seem to make them... and without screws how can I build my massive traps???
Odd, that. I can't remember if enormous screws were ever available, or if access was lost somewhere along the new versions. Again, will test this, and if it seems it's impossible to make then I'll make a special reaction to do so. It is true what DarkThug mentions, at least to my agreeance, that water pumps are a bit out of the scope of what I imagine kobolds to manage, but I forget what else you need for a water pump. But while massive traps are awesome and allthat, I believe that massing on weaker traps can be just as effective in over quanitity. As usual, correct if wrong.


As for what the kobolds in KC are.. well, I don't have any images off hand, but google 'cutebold'. Actually, maybe don't. Point is they're cutesy dog like things with floppy ears. With all the d&d trapness of kobolds that Dsarker mentions, without any of the scaly bits. I believe their anatomy has been changed in the raws to reflect this.

This is different from DF vanilla kobolds, however. While I don't remember where this was quoted, I do remember Toady mentioning that kobolds were a sort of cross; with both mammalian and reptile traits.

This will be reflected as well in the next version; even when all else is mammalian, I do prefer the idea of kobolds laying eggs. This I'll -need- to test, as I hear that having a civ race that lays eggs can be problematic.
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Dsarker

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #172 on: June 15, 2011, 06:24:17 pm »

Some mammals do lay eggs.
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
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"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

thatkid

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #173 on: June 15, 2011, 06:29:59 pm »

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Dsarker

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #174 on: June 15, 2011, 07:58:43 pm »

Other too, but platypus are the weirdest creatures EVAR. They have ten chromosomes, they are the only mammal to have poison, they SWEAT milk.
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Dsarker is the trolliest Catholic
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[Dsarker is] a good for nothing troll.
You do not convince me. You rationalize your actions and because the result is favorable you become right.
"There are times, Sember, when I could believe your mother had a secret lover. Looking at you makes me wonder if it was one of my goats."

Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #175 on: June 15, 2011, 09:18:57 pm »

Oh yes, and echidna's too lay eggs, by no means was I saying that giving kobolds the ability to lay eggs was unseen in the real world.
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DarkThug

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #176 on: June 15, 2011, 10:23:16 pm »

Metalworking : The problem is there is no copper nugget to be requested from liaison/embark screen. Unless your map has (reachable) native copper vein, this building will be useless. Even if you discover tetrahedrite vein the ore you mined will be tretahedrite stone thus can't be use in reaction. I suggest expand the reaction to cover tetrahedrite and malachite as well.

Soap : Got it, I will take it like a kobold.

Food : I will try keep an eye on my egg roast supply. I have come to my own conclusion though that I should wait til they hatch for more bone and leather.

Looting : I didn't hope for my kobold to use human-size large breastplate. I was hoping that I could at least use small size gears looted from goblin/elf/dwarf. Does the game handle Kobold as smaller being than a dwarf ? I am ok with workshop that change loot into savage version but DF Kobold (as least in vanilla) was famous for being thief race. That's why I imagine them to be able to use stolen gear as is.

Trading : yep it's wierd. I believe this to be DF issue rather than KC issue. The problem is I can't find where to change the setting or when/where I mess it up. Hope someone can enlight me.

Build : I meant the whole ash thing is currently in KC.It is just that I never noticed it in vanilla since all the stones/log/block will pile up several 1st pages. And I found it odd that I can build the whole archer tower from vermin ash lol

Although I do miss watching a kobold mom carrying her 12 children around with her. The idea of kobold laying egg sound interesting, but how will it work in-game exactly ? Will the mother carry her eggs around with her ? (then what is a point ? ^^") Will she leave them in her badroom ? or hallway :p ?? or will she need nestbox ??? do we have to make room out of them ????
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Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2011, 04:56:30 am »

Metalworking : The problem is there is no copper nugget to be requested from liaison/embark screen. Unless your map has (reachable) native copper vein, this building will be useless. Even if you discover tetrahedrite vein the ore you mined will be tretahedrite stone thus can't be use in reaction. I suggest expand the reaction to cover tetrahedrite and malachite as well.

Soap : Got it, I will take it like a kobold.

Food : I will try keep an eye on my egg roast supply. I have come to my own conclusion though that I should wait til they hatch for more bone and leather.

Looting : I didn't hope for my kobold to use human-size large breastplate. I was hoping that I could at least use small size gears looted from goblin/elf/dwarf. Does the game handle Kobold as smaller being than a dwarf ? I am ok with workshop that change loot into savage version but DF Kobold (as least in vanilla) was famous for being thief race. That's why I imagine them to be able to use stolen gear as is.

Trading : yep it's wierd. I believe this to be DF issue rather than KC issue. The problem is I can't find where to change the setting or when/where I mess it up. Hope someone can enlight me.

Build : I meant the whole ash thing is currently in KC.It is just that I never noticed it in vanilla since all the stones/log/block will pile up several 1st pages. And I found it odd that I can build the whole archer tower from vermin ash lol

Although I do miss watching a kobold mom carrying her 12 children around with her. The idea of kobold laying egg sound interesting, but how will it work in-game exactly ? Will the mother carry her eggs around with her ? (then what is a point ? ^^") Will she leave them in her badroom ? or hallway :p ?? or will she need nestbox ??? do we have to make room out of them ????

Metal: Although it was intended to be simple and tetra/etc was intentionally left out, when I think about it, it does make little sense to be able to use copper/etc but not smelt tetrahedrite. I'll add in reactions, but the stone itself, along with most other stone, will remain unmineable, as I still intend on metal usage being very hard.

Looting: As I recall, kobolds are indeed smaller than the goblin/dwarf counterparts. Using humans was a bad example from me. Unfortunately there isn't some fashion to make gear useable as is without reactions; except possibly changing around sizes of creatures which I'll experiment with without making vast changes.

As for eggs, that's why I definitely require testing, as I don't know how they'll act with eggs. As much as I too will miss 12 pups following a mom with 12 babies, kobold population is very important givin how weak they are, and such a thing can be pretty devastating if the mother meanders about during, say, siege time. Even if she does carry the eggs though I would still probably do it, as a flavor sort of thing more than any practical point.
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Qwernt

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2011, 11:51:17 am »

Regarding:

Stalk Wood Bulbs - Have the Stalk -> Log produce only 1 bulb.  This way a good grower can keep farming but an unexperienced one will cost you.  OR, have it produce a part a bulb (similar to smelting).  This would force you to brew them once in a while to insure you have seed (the current solution).

No big traps???? what are you elves??? ;^).  I modded back in the corkscrew.  I just don't see little kobolds not having BIG traps to defend themselves.  AND yes, I know a bunch of normal weapon traps work just find (especially when they are surrounded by a drop into magma), but I like the challenge of building.  That said, if you have a technology goal in mind, why do you still allow kobs to have glass?  That seems like a fairly high technology (though I do like the fact that it is there, allows 3 non wood build choices: glass, clay, bicks).

Building with Ash is a DF vanilla feature.  Same with the ability to build with soap.  I think it might even be fire proof, which would mean you don't need to bring a stone to still collect clay.


Trading, can you search for the Great Axe in the trade window?

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Lagotrope

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Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
« Reply #179 on: June 16, 2011, 12:06:08 pm »

Regarding:

Stalk Wood Bulbs - Have the Stalk -> Log produce only 1 bulb.  This way a good grower can keep farming but an unexperienced one will cost you.  OR, have it produce a part a bulb (similar to smelting).  This would force you to brew them once in a while to insure you have seed (the current solution).

No big traps???? what are you elves??? ;^).  I modded back in the corkscrew.  I just don't see little kobolds not having BIG traps to defend themselves.  AND yes, I know a bunch of normal weapon traps work just find (especially when they are surrounded by a drop into magma), but I like the challenge of building.  That said, if you have a technology goal in mind, why do you still allow kobs to have glass?  That seems like a fairly high technology (though I do like the fact that it is there, allows 3 non wood build choices: glass, clay, bicks).

Building with Ash is a DF vanilla feature.  Same with the ability to build with soap.  I think it might even be fire proof, which would mean you don't need to bring a stone to still collect clay.


Trading, can you search for the Great Axe in the trade window?

As I mention, I'll be looking into the whole enormous corkscrew business and fix it someway, because they're supposed to have such traps, technological or not.
As for glass, it's mostly because, at the time where that was on the mind, I either couldn't remove it because it was hardcoded in (as many of the basic buildings and their purposes are), or because I couldn't without screwing up other critical things. Case in point, I'm pretty sure that removing any one job from a skill family will remove the *whole* skill family, though this may have been fixed. Glass will still be around anyway though; even if it doesn't make sense from a tech tree standard, we're talking about cute dog people making ginormous traps, and if you don't like it.. then that's cool, nothin stopping you from modding the whole thing, least of all me.
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