Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Damage output is going to be implemented soon I think.
And yes, it is a debug feature.
You know the only reason you can die in the game is because of the interest Whales got from Bay12? He wasn't anywhere near making a proper release.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, I understand the game is in early development and all.

You know, another thing: I was trying to board up a window, and for some reason, having a nailgun, some nails, and boards wasn't enough. I wasn't even sure how to go about doing it. Some things concerning those interactions could possibly be made more intuitive, but I can't say for sure.

[quinnr]

Alright, switching the forum link as well.

G-Flex, I think you need a hammer and a twoXfour.. But it's been a while since I last played.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Yeah, it'd be nice if nailguns could function as hammers do in that situation.
Whales will likely implement that in the upcoming construction update, but for now you can (a)pply a hammer towards the window or door you want to board up.

[GlyphGryph]

That's a "debug command"? All I was doing was bringing up the map with m, moving the cursor to a building, and pressing the enter key.

From what I understand, it was not actually intended to be released to the public when it was, and Whale's was struggling a bit to get things caught up.
All things considered, it's amazing how playable it was/is.

In addition, I think the text feedback area could provide more information, like how much damage is being done to you when an enemy attacks, feedback when reading something, etc.

Considering you can see your current health and it does say where the enemy hit to guide you along, this seems a bit redundant to me, but it's much requested, so it will probably get in sooner or later.

Hmm... after I finish my current mod, maybe I'll spend some time doing interface tweaks. I'm currently trying to figure out the hell that is compiling for windows, we'll see how that goes, hah. I'm not even writing the port, I just honestly can't even figure out how to compile the thing! Bah, everything's so much easier on 'nix...

having a nailgun,

I've actually been meaning to ask whales about this. The problem is, the nailgun is classed as a gun (allowing you to shoot with it), and the  boarding up action is a byproduct of tools, so I'm not sure if its possible. However, I could make the nails themselves a tool, and allow you to "use" any item in the group (except the nailgun) to initiate the build action, with the nailgun meeting the same requirement as the hammer. That would at least be an improvement. Redundant if it's being included in the next update, though. I'll add the question to the Ask Whales thread.

[SeaBee]

My first post in this thread: this is a damn fine game. Nothing more to add.

[Whales]

I just started playing, and started a tutorial game, and while it seems pretty neat, a few things are frustrating, mostly in terms of interface/convenience features.

Things I'd like to see:

• Being able to examine the stats of items without having to pick them up first.
• Being able to drop multiple items at once.
• More intuitive and standardized interface (why do I have to press "7" to exit the sleep menu? Why?!)
• Fewer bugs (obvious, but it's pretty aggravating not being able to see my arm health half the time).

Also, why can my character apparently teleport? I select a location on the map and I just show up there without any time passing or suffering weather effects or anything like that.

I'm also curious why the game doesn't just use actual text output, since that's all it seems to be anyway. There are also some glaring typos, for instance "nutrituion" in comestible stats.

Also, I drank/drugged myself to death on purpose, but the game never actually told me how I died. All it said was "game over". That's pretty harsh!

1.  You can, use 'e.' or 'e,' or 'eg' to pick up items on your current tile while viewing their stats.
2.  It's coming.  More complicated than you might think.
3.  Not sure what you mean here; the interface is pretty standard for roguelikes.  Also, I do not know what the "sleep interface" is.
4.  I assume you're on Windows, that's a Windows-only bug.

Teleportation is a debug feature.  You're apparently playing an old version of the game; it's been moved to the debug menu.

Actual text output?  That is exactly what the game uses.  Not sure what you mean here.  The "Nutrituion" typo has been fixed in more recent versions, but I'm sure there's many others.

Reason For Death messages are planned, but it'd involve re-writing every single line where the player takes damage; there are hundreds.  I'll get around to it eventually.

EDIT: Whoa, mega-ninja'd, how did that happen?  Anyway yeah.

[G-Flex]

3.  Not sure what you mean here; the interface is pretty standard for roguelikes.  Also, I do not know what the "sleep interface" is.

I mean the interface itself being standardized, i.e. having its own standards. By "sleep menu" I mean the menu that pops up when you try to sleep (this was pretty clear, I thought?); it's jarring to have to press an arbitrary number to exit that (as a general rule, menus/screens should be exitable using a common key).

Actual text output?  That is exactly what the game uses.  Not sure what you mean here.

Sorry, that's another thing I'm probably just encountering because I'm using a Windows build. It spawns a blank console window, which then spawns another window within which the game itself runs, which apparently doesn't actually use real console output.

Reason For Death messages are planned, but it'd involve re-writing every single line where the player takes damage; there are hundreds.  I'll get around to it eventually.

Shouldn't there be some common basis in the code for providing a reason for death? Whatever function is handling damage/death could probably be passed another parameter stating what is causing it, or something of that nature. I have no idea what the source looks like, though. In the long term, though, I'd consider it an essential feature: It's very unfun and frustrating to die and have no idea what caused it.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Yeah, windows uses SDL to emulate a console due to the curses library being linux only I think.
And if you get the one from aposos' git you'll only have the one window, as well as the up to date debug menu and junk.

[FunctionZero]

Actually, both platform has curses. Linux uses ncurses while Windows has pdcurses. That's pretty much the only difference.
That and the changed code covering the difference between these two libs.

[Whales]

3.  Not sure what you mean here; the interface is pretty standard for roguelikes.  Also, I do not know what the "sleep interface" is.

I mean the interface itself being standardized, i.e. having its own standards. By "sleep menu" I mean the menu that pops up when you try to sleep (this was pretty clear, I thought?); it's jarring to have to press an arbitrary number to exit that (as a general rule, menus/screens should be exitable using a common key).

Actual text output?  That is exactly what the game uses.  Not sure what you mean here.

Sorry, that's another thing I'm probably just encountering because I'm using a Windows build. It spawns a blank console window, which then spawns another window within which the game itself runs, which apparently doesn't actually use real console output.

Reason For Death messages are planned, but it'd involve re-writing every single line where the player takes damage; there are hundreds.  I'll get around to it eventually.

Shouldn't there be some common basis in the code for providing a reason for death? Whatever function is handling damage/death could probably be passed another parameter stating what is causing it, or something of that nature. I have no idea what the source looks like, though. In the long term, though, I'd consider it an essential feature: It's very unfun and frustrating to die and have no idea what caused it.

When I try to sleep, I get a "Are you sure you want to sleep? Y/N" prompt.  Just like in every Y/N prompt in the game (they all use the same code), pressing 7 does nothing.  Pressing Y or N gives the appropriate response.  You are probably using a mod which alters this prompt--why, I have no idea.
I do maintain several internal standards: > and < to cycle through tabs, as in the player creation or crafting screens; q or Esc to exit an action or info screen, as in the @ screen, firing a gun, throwing an item, etc.  All multiple-choice menus use the same code, and look the same.  All text-entry prompts use the same code, and look the same.  If you could be more specific about what you think needs standardization, that would be appreciated!

There is indeed a single function which damages the player.  It is used hundreds of times throughout the code.  If I were to add a "cause of death" message to that function, I'd have to edit all those hundreds of uses.  I intend to do so at some point, but it's a bit of a chore   Most of the time it's fairly obvious what killed you, so.

Actually, both platform has curses. Linux uses ncurses while Windows has pdcurses. That's pretty much the only difference.
That and the changed code covering the difference between these two libs.

Yes, but pdcurses doesn't output to an actual console, it outputs to a emulated console-like window, right?  I admit to being totally unfamiliar with it.

[FunctionZero]

Yeah, pdcurses spawns its own window.
Windows' command line is too basic compared to Linux's terminal. Doesn't have half the stuff terminal has.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

3.  Not sure what you mean here; the interface is pretty standard for roguelikes.  Also, I do not know what the "sleep interface" is.

I mean the interface itself being standardized, i.e. having its own standards. By "sleep menu" I mean the menu that pops up when you try to sleep (this was pretty clear, I thought?); it's jarring to have to press an arbitrary number to exit that (as a general rule, menus/screens should be exitable using a common key).

Actual text output?  That is exactly what the game uses.  Not sure what you mean here.

Sorry, that's another thing I'm probably just encountering because I'm using a Windows build. It spawns a blank console window, which then spawns another window within which the game itself runs, which apparently doesn't actually use real console output.

Reason For Death messages are planned, but it'd involve re-writing every single line where the player takes damage; there are hundreds.  I'll get around to it eventually.

Shouldn't there be some common basis in the code for providing a reason for death? Whatever function is handling damage/death could probably be passed another parameter stating what is causing it, or something of that nature. I have no idea what the source looks like, though. In the long term, though, I'd consider it an essential feature: It's very unfun and frustrating to die and have no idea what caused it.

When I try to sleep, I get a "Are you sure you want to sleep? Y/N" prompt.  Just like in every Y/N prompt in the game (they all use the same code), pressing 7 does nothing.  Pressing Y or N gives the appropriate response.

I would have to guess G-Flex is talking about the wait command accessed via ^
Which requires you to press 7 to not to wait.

[G-Flex]

Ergh, right, I was being stupid. I meant "wait", not "sleep".

Yes, but pdcurses doesn't output to an actual console, it outputs to a emulated console-like window, right?  I admit to being totally unfamiliar with it.

Doesn't DC:SS use curses? I know that outputs to a real console window. I could be wrong about it using that, though.


In other news: I'm playing a schizophrenic with an addictive personality and Drunken Master. I can't verify that Drunken Master actually works, but judging by my unarmed feats of strength against hordes of undead, I figure it probably does. I have tons of morale from all the tequila, too! Schizophrenia doesn't seem to do very much very often, though, at least not nearly enough to justify all the points you get.

Does pain ever go away on its own? It seems odd to me that pain persists even after you've healed the injuries.

[Whales]

I would have to guess G-Flex is talking about the wait command accessed via ^
Which requires you to press 7 to not to wait.

Ah, that makes more sense.  The issue is that multiple-choice menus often have no "exit without response" option, intentionally.  I guess I could add another multiple-choice menu style that has an "exit without response" option bound to q or 0.

Ergh, right, I was being stupid. I meant "wait", not "sleep".

Yes, but pdcurses doesn't output to an actual console, it outputs to a emulated console-like window, right?  I admit to being totally unfamiliar with it.

Doesn't DC:SS use curses? I know that outputs to a real console window. I could be wrong about it using that, though.


In other news: I'm playing a schizophrenic with an addictive personality and Drunken Master. I can't verify that Drunken Master actually works, but judging by my unarmed feats of strength against hordes of undead, I figure it probably does. I have tons of morale from all the tequila, too! Schizophrenia doesn't seem to do very much very often, though, at least not nearly enough to justify all the points you get.

Does pain ever go away on its own? It seems odd to me that pain persists even after you've healed the injuries.

I've never played Crawl under Windows, but I do know that under Linux it does indeed use ncurses, and outputs to a normal terminal (unless playing with tiles).

Drunken Master does indeed work; it boosts skill and damage.  It could probably use some tweaking, probably just increase skill.

Schizophrenia has some occasional debilitating effects.  It is possible for it to cause the player to be completely helpless for extended periods of time, which under the right circumstances can be very deadly.

Pain goes away gradually.  It is unassociated with HP, and high pain is generally more dangerous than low HP.  Just because you have bandaged up your injuries doesn't mean they've stopped hurting.  Use painkillers, like tramadol, codeine, oxycodone, or heroin to manage pain.