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[toupz]

Ok guysi  just found out survival skill is used for crafting long bows and wooden arrows, iuts also good for butchering this is the best of the best, survival+archery im a wood hunter

[G-Flex]

Cataclysm isn't DF, and I'm not attempting any kind of chemistry simulation.  This is a video game, not a lab tool.  I do know how fire works; don't get too worked up over it.  Not to restate myself, but in Cataclysm volume is a more accurate reflection of combustible material than weight is.

I know what you're saying, I just don't understand how it can possibly be true. How can volume ever reflect the amount of material an object contains more accurately than weight, unless weight doesn't actually represent weight?

[TheBronzePickle]

Because coding the fire using volume is possibly easier than coding the fire with weight, and either way Whales doesn't want to have to go back and change the code.

[G-Flex]

Because coding the fire using volume is possibly easier than coding the fire with weight, and either way Whales doesn't want to have to go back and change the code.

Using one variable instead of another isn't any easier/harder. From what whales said, the "burnt" counter just increments and the object is considered completely consumed when that counter exceeds/equals the object's volume. Using weight instead of volume in that comparison isn't any easier/harder.

[TheBronzePickle]

I'll let him justify it then. It's probably some kind of balance reason.

[G-Flex]

Well, he's saying that in this game, volume represents the amount of material better than weight does. I don't really get that, though, since if weight represents, well, weight, then there is no better measure, not even theoretically. I assume whales knows that, so there's either something extremely bizarre about Cataclysm that I don't know, or a misunderstanding somewhere.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

A 10 foot long piece of particle board would have much more material than a 1 foot block of lead.
Which one would weigh more?

[BishopX]

Cataclysm isn't DF, and I'm not attempting any kind of chemistry simulation.  This is a video game, not a lab tool.  I do know how fire works; don't get too worked up over it.  Not to restate myself, but in Cataclysm volume is a more accurate reflection of combustible material than weight is.

I know what you're saying, I just don't understand how it can possibly be true. How can volume ever reflect the amount of material an object contains more accurately than weight, unless weight doesn't actually represent weight?

The problem Whales has if that he doesn't want to specify the material composition of items by weight. Take for example a 10 lb axe. It's probably 7 lb of metal axe head (non-flammable) and three pounds of wooden handle (flammable). If Whales were to assume that the entire object was wood it would burn for an unrealistically long time, if he were to assume it was entirely metal it wouldn't burn at all. Since he doesn't want to specify that an axe is made of an axe-head of a certain weight and a handle of a certain weight, instead he uses volume. By assuming that the least dense parts of an object are probably the most flammable and also take up the most volume (because they're not as dense), Whales can assume that the entire volume of an object is made of a flammable material and that the non-flammable stuff takes up a trivial amount of volume. Since Cataclysm only uses broad classes of material (e.g. wood, metal, cotton, leather, plastic) Whales can assume a constant weight/volume ratio for each material and then track burning by volume rather than weight (since the relationship is constant). So a heavy stick and a fire axe, which have about the same volume by very different weights (due to the axe head) would burn for roughly the same amount of time. Which is accurate given that they have roughly the same amount of wood.

Does that make sense to you?

[G-Flex]

By assuming that the least dense parts of an object are probably the most flammable and also take up the most volume (because they're not as dense), Whales can assume that the entire volume of an object is made of a flammable material and that the non-flammable stuff takes up a trivial amount of volume.

This makes sense to a degree, but it's a pretty big assumption, I think. I suppose it works for most cases like hammers and shovels, where the bulk of the volume is flammable and the bulk of the mass isn't. Of course, for items where those assumptions aren't true, it falls apart, but I suppose most cases would be covered okay enough.

So yeah, I think I get what's going on now. It would obviously be preferable (in the "proper general solution" sense, not the "practical" sense) if the mass (and/or volume) of each part of a multiple-material item could be tracked, but that's a little more complex than whales seems to want at the moment.

[Bitoru]

C..Can we go back to having fun now?

[Hiiri]

C..Can we go back to having fun now?

Ahhahhah +1

What'd you call this, then? Haven't you ever played Dwarf fortress?

[Whales]

BishopX wisely states the things I'd say if I cared enough to explain things to those unfamiliar with the way things work   It is more complex than just that, but suffice to say that no, weight does not determine how long an item should burn for.  If that doesn't make sense to you, then I invite you to familiarize yourself with the source code!
Or perhaps just play the game and don't worry about it so much

[Jacob/Lee]

On the topic of the bots, it would be pretty cool if we had a unique (read: one in the whole map ) building and a terminal or three to bust up and stop copbot deployment.

Also, it seems bullets can't blow up gas pumps. I'm not exactly sure if a bullet actually can blow one up in real life, but 40mm frags can't either. As a matter of fact, 40mm frags seem to act more like bullets than an actual explosive, I swear I point blanked a zombie once...

[G-Flex]

On the topic of the bots, it would be pretty cool if we had a unique (read: one in the whole map ) building and a terminal or three to bust up and stop copbot deployment.

Also, it seems bullets can't blow up gas pumps. I'm not exactly sure if a bullet actually can blow one up in real life, but 40mm frags can't either. As a matter of fact, 40mm frags seem to act more like bullets than an actual explosive, I swear I point blanked a zombie once...

In real life, we'd need to know how much gasoline is even in a gas pump at any given time, and how likely a small spark would be to set off the gasoline inside. Gasoline doesn't blow up nearly as easily in real life as it does in the movies. Of course, this being Cataclysm, a chance for a gas pump to blow up from bullets is probably not too absurd by the game's own logic.

And yeah, I'd prefer if copbots actually came from... somewhere... instead of spawning out of thin air.

[Whales]

Bullets won't blow up gas pumps unless they're incendiary, but they will puncture the tank and cause gasoline to leak all over.

Frag grenades have a small blast radius which is an actual explosion, which will blow up a gas tank.  The fragments from the grenade travel well beyond that radius, and do indeed act like bullets, puncturing a gas pump normally.

I am planning on putting a bot depot in the map, with various control options for the intrepid hacker.