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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 1558223 times)

scriver

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4635 on: January 22, 2012, 08:29:12 am »

I've never heard of the towers having stones before, I'm guessing the amulet was the stone of Cyrodill?

Indeedey it was. Iirc, Martin's pretty dragon statue became the new stone, or at least so it was theorised.


Skyrim removed attributes,

Attributes had no narrative impact on neither Oblivion or Morrowind, and most of what they did matter for is done by perks now. Removing them also removed part of the extremely broken levelling system where you had to game the mechanics to get the best, or even good, results, rather than playing the game.

Quote
classes

Classes were hardly anything else than a title in Oblivion. Removing classes did away with another part of the crappy levelling system, the one where you had to increase skills that wasn't part of your class to get good results, or alternatively, not put the skills you're intending to use among your class' skills to begin with.

Quote
birthsigns (Actually, you get to change your birthsign whenever you want)

So, let me get this right, you're saying that the perk system is bad because it doesn't let you change your play style as easily, but when it comes to "birthsigns" being able to change is bad?

Personally, I think removing the signs from the character was one of the few bad things with the new system, but then again, there's nothing forcing you to change signs - I know all my character has been running around with the same ones for the majority of their games. The only times I change them is when I find one that matches their build better, but that's rather irrelevant seeming as if I chose at character creation I would've chosen the sign that fit the build I was intending for that character the best to begin with.

Quote
and a lot of stuff that is RPG-ish. Morrowind felt more of a RPG.

I don't think so. To me they're exactly the same kind of action game with "RPG elements". Action has always been the focus of TES games, and I feel the system fits the game they're trying to make the best in Skyrim.

Well, out of III to V at least. Daggerfall was better, but it's size made it a whole different kind of game.

On the perk system, I think it improved the game as a whole, even if certain perks are rather stupid. Like was said, they require focus that make each character special (attributes certainly never did this in MW or OB) and no, there's nothing stopping you from focusing on skills from the different archetypes. You can't change build halfway through, and that is a good thing in my book. Certainly much more "RPG-ish" than going from sneaky archer to heavy-armoured battlemage just because you became bored with the combat.


Races used to matter because we had attributes. Orcs weren't meant to be mages. You can raise your INT to 100 but it's not easy since you have to improve your int skills carefully. Now, Altmer mage and Orc mage doesn't have any differences. Orc's skin is green and Altmer's skin is yellow. That's all there is. I think I made my point.

Yet you say yourself all that was needed for an Orc to be just as good as an Altmer was planning, because all it comes down to is that it was "not as easy". I know, I played Orc mages in Morrowind and Oblivion both. It wasn't very hard. So no, races never really made much difference in the way you believe. An Orc's skin was green and an Altmer's skin was yellow.

I also always thought attribute bonuses because of race and/or gender was stupid in games in general. I'm not playing the statistical average of all members of the species, dammit, I'm playing an individual. There's no reason my character shouldn't be an exceptionally gifted person just because the rest of my Orc brethren are stupid brutes.
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Leatra

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4636 on: January 22, 2012, 10:39:48 am »

Eh, this is turning into Skyrim vs. Morrowind again. The player is always exceptionally gifted. We always save the world even when we are just level 1. I simply like traditional RPGs. Different people, different tastes.
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buckets

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4637 on: January 22, 2012, 03:01:57 pm »

I fast traveled on Shadowmere and this happened...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The basket was violently shaking and doing a little damage to me. It shook even more violently when I dismounted, and eventually it left my face and flew away into the distance.
I've had moths do the same thing irl...
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4638 on: January 22, 2012, 03:11:09 pm »

I fast traveled on Shadowmere and this happened...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The basket was violently shaking and doing a little damage to me. It shook even more violently when I dismounted, and eventually it left my face and flew away into the distance.

Sounds like something Monty Python could have done a skit on.

Black knight arrives in town, begins to dismount... is viciously attacked by a mysterious wicker basket, which eventually flies off into the sunset.  ???
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Domenique

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4639 on: January 22, 2012, 03:19:24 pm »

I fast traveled on Shadowmere and this happened...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The basket was violently shaking and doing a little damage to me. It shook even more violently when I dismounted, and eventually it left my face and flew away into the distance.

Sounds like something Monty Python could have done a skit on.

Black knight arrives in town, begins to dismount... is viciously attacked by a mysterious wicker basket, which eventually flies off into the sunset.  ???

Monty Python knows that real men don't ride horses, they hit coconuts with each other instead.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4640 on: January 22, 2012, 03:29:59 pm »

I fast traveled on Shadowmere and this happened...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The basket was violently shaking and doing a little damage to me. It shook even more violently when I dismounted, and eventually it left my face and flew away into the distance.

Sounds like something Monty Python could have done a skit on.

Black knight arrives in town, begins to dismount... is viciously attacked by a mysterious wicker basket, which eventually flies off into the sunset.  ???

Monty Python knows that real men don't ride horses, they hit coconuts with each other instead.

Ah, right. Of course...

Spoiler: Behold, Shadowmere! (click to show/hide)
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The Mechanical Man

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4641 on: January 22, 2012, 05:23:15 pm »

Races used to matter because we had attributes. Orcs weren't meant to be mages. You can raise your INT to 100 but it's not easy since you have to improve your int skills carefully. Now, Altmer mage and Orc mage doesn't have any differences. Orc's skin is green and Altmer's skin is yellow. That's all there is. I think I made my point.

Yet you say yourself all that was needed for an Orc to be just as good as an Altmer was planning, because all it comes down to is that it was "not as easy". I know, I played Orc mages in Morrowind and Oblivion both. It wasn't very hard. So no, races never really made much difference in the way you believe. An Orc's skin was green and an Altmer's skin was yellow.

I also always thought attribute bonuses because of race and/or gender was stupid in games in general. I'm not playing the statistical average of all members of the species, dammit, I'm playing an individual. There's no reason my character shouldn't be an exceptionally gifted person just because the rest of my Orc brethren are stupid brutes.

So because the older system was flawed it's okay for the newer one to be flawed as well? Races should have always made more of a difference. It's about weighted choices. Race means nothing in Skyrim. It doesn't matter what race I choose. Choosing a race should be about weighing gains and losses, sacrificing some abilities while gaining others, etc. None of this is happening.

Your idea of you being gifted (and therefor racial abilities shouldn't matter) as the character still holds true. You CAN be an orc mage, but it should be more difficult than being an altmer mage, in the same way that you can teach two different animals the same trick but it will be harder to teach one compared to the other.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 05:26:23 pm by The Mechanical Man »
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Putnam

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4642 on: January 22, 2012, 06:31:53 pm »

Alternatively, race could be about role-playing. For example, maybe one wouldn't want to be a breton, but would have to because the Imperial class they want to play as to roleplay is so downright horrible that they're forced to choose something similar.

It's hard to balance things.

Leatra

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4643 on: January 22, 2012, 06:39:29 pm »

Races used to matter because we had attributes. Orcs weren't meant to be mages. You can raise your INT to 100 but it's not easy since you have to improve your int skills carefully. Now, Altmer mage and Orc mage doesn't have any differences. Orc's skin is green and Altmer's skin is yellow. That's all there is. I think I made my point.

Yet you say yourself all that was needed for an Orc to be just as good as an Altmer was planning, because all it comes down to is that it was "not as easy". I know, I played Orc mages in Morrowind and Oblivion both. It wasn't very hard. So no, races never really made much difference in the way you believe. An Orc's skin was green and an Altmer's skin was yellow.

I also always thought attribute bonuses because of race and/or gender was stupid in games in general. I'm not playing the statistical average of all members of the species, dammit, I'm playing an individual. There's no reason my character shouldn't be an exceptionally gifted person just because the rest of my Orc brethren are stupid brutes.

So because the older system was flawed it's okay for the newer one to be flawed as well? Races should have always made more of a difference. It's about weighted choices. Race means nothing in Skyrim. It doesn't matter what race I choose. Choosing a race should be about weighing gains and losses, sacrificing some abilities while gaining others, etc. None of this is happening.

Your idea of you being gifted (and therefor racial abilities shouldn't matter) as the character still holds true. You CAN be an orc mage, but it should be more difficult than being an altmer mage, in the same way that you can teach two different animals the same trick but it will be harder to teach one compared to the other.

My point exactly. Orcs can be mages. Hell, there is an Orc mage in Balmora Mages Guild. But they aren't meant to be mages. They don't got the potential of Altmer. Your character may be gifted but that doesn't change the fact that your character carries Orc blood. Your character is built from "statistical average of all members of the species" and you evolve from there as you improve your skills.

Quote
So, let me get this right, you're saying that the perk system is bad because it doesn't let you change your play style as easily, but when it comes to "birthsigns" being able to change is bad?
Your birthsign is decided when you are born. Your skills are improved as you use them.

I got tried of this Morrowind vs. Oblivion vs. Skyrim: LET THE ULTIMATE DEBATE BEGIN kind of discussions. I'll say this though;

I'm sick of this "streamlining for casual (which means stupid for video game companies) players" trend in the last games and I hate to see my favorite video game series getting trashed like this. I can't believe Bethesda turned into one of these money-hungry corporations. I still rembember the creator of Minecraft, Notch, being sued by Bethesda.

It's not just about Skyrim when it comes to dumbing down.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 06:41:18 pm by Leatra »
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Karnewarrior

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4644 on: January 22, 2012, 07:05:34 pm »

I still play Might and Magic.

I don't still play Halo 3 or Morrowind.
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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4645 on: January 22, 2012, 07:32:27 pm »

I still rembember the creator of Minecraft, Notch, being sued by Bethesda.

It's not just about Skyrim when it comes to dumbing down.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That was Besesda: The Publisher that sued him, Bethesda: The Developer had nothing to do with it. Executive Meddling at it's worst.

What's the 1993 example. System Shock? It looks like one of the later levels of Bioshock.
EDIT: Just realised you lifted the 2010 example straight from the Modern Warfare 3 design document. It's the first level, the bit where you fight Russians.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 07:34:50 pm by NobodyPro »
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Sordid

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4646 on: January 22, 2012, 08:22:17 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What's the 1993 example. System Shock? It looks like one of the later levels of Bioshock.

Doom, episode 1, map 6.
Philistine. :P
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 08:24:31 pm by Sordid »
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Gamerlord

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4647 on: January 23, 2012, 12:54:27 am »

Oh my god. I found the Transmute spellbook.  :D :D :D My money problems are over!

kcwong

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4648 on: January 23, 2012, 02:07:56 am »

I fast traveled on Shadowmere and this happened...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The basket was violently shaking and doing a little damage to me. It shook even more violently when I dismounted, and eventually it left my face and flew away into the distance.

Sounds like something Monty Python could have done a skit on.

Black knight arrives in town, begins to dismount... is viciously attacked by a mysterious wicker basket, which eventually flies off into the sunset.  ???

Monty Python knows that real men don't ride horses, they hit coconuts with each other instead.

I heard they originally intended to rent one, but didn't have enough budget. Rabbits are much cheaper.


Oh my god. I found the Transmute spellbook.  :D :D :D My money problems are over!

Nope... face the wrath of extremely limited vendor gold!

Or you can install this, to save yourself some time running between vendors of different cities...
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=769
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:13:50 am by kcwong »
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Discussion on TES V: Skyrim
« Reply #4649 on: January 23, 2012, 06:56:07 am »

Oh my god. I found the Transmute spellbook.  :D :D :D My money problems are over!

Wait, Skyrim actually has money problems? I need whatever version you're playing...
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