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[Aqizzar]

It would stop gun shops along the Mexican border from selling forty AR-15s a week to the same customer, which I'd like to think is something we can all get behind even if it requires a bit more finesse than a blanket ban.

[Drunken]

Yeah there is no valid argument for allowing civilians to purchase automatic assault weapons. Yes you could also focus on the guns used in the majority of crimes, ie. handguns. I would support this and it would make a much more significant difference. I said at least because even to people who go on about constitutional gun rights have trouble arguing that private citizens should have machine guns. Getting handguns banned would be really really hard.

[cameron]

see I would figure if one of the main arguments for guns was protection from tyranny that automatic weapons would be far more acceptable than handguns

[Leafsnail]

bullet   Criminals use whatever guns are available; if one type is banned, criminals will switch to whatever they can get

Excellent!  Maybe they'll switch to a gun that can't shoot 70 people in 2 minutes and thus not shoot 70 people in 2 minutes.

see I would figure if one of the main arguments for guns was protection from tyranny that automatic weapons would be far more acceptable than handguns

It's not one of the main arguments because it's a stupid argument.

[Nadaka]

Yeah there is no valid argument for allowing civilians to purchase automatic assault weapons. Yes you could also focus on the guns used in the majority of crimes, ie. handguns. I would support this and it would make a much more significant difference. I said at least because even to people who go on about constitutional gun rights have trouble arguing that private citizens should have machine guns. Getting handguns banned would be really really hard.

It the states where automatic weapons can be purchased legally, doing so is a very expensive and slow process that involves registration. These guns are almost never used for crime as it is. I don't see any reason to outright ban them.

[Owlbread]

The problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

[Luke_Prowler]

The problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

Clearly we should ban the use of hands. It would be for your own safety *pulls out meat cleaver* 

[Realmfighter]

The problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

This argument could be used against the illegalization of selling nuclear weapons to people without changing it at all.

[Kilroy the Grand]

bullet   Criminals use whatever guns are available; if one type is banned, criminals will switch to whatever they can get

Excellent!  Maybe they'll switch to a gun that can't shoot 70 people in 2 minutes and thus not shoot 70 people in 2 minutes.

see I would figure if one of the main arguments for guns was protection from tyranny that automatic weapons would be far more acceptable than handguns

It's not one of the main arguments because it's a stupid argument.

To be perfectly fair, it would be far easier to kill people with explosives, A man holding a box is slightly less auspicious than a man carrying a Scary, Black, Cop Killing Rifle. Any idiot can look up how to make a bomb from ammonia nitrate, hell you can make a fully automatic smg out of plumbing parts.

Also, never trust the government, it isn't your friend. It isn't there to help you, just to screw you over.

The problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

This argument could be used against the illegalization of selling nuclear weapons to people without changing it at all.

I believe there is a small distinction from a "firearm" to a "nuclear bomb" Don't you?

[kaijyuu]

His point is that distinction is not made in the argument of "the problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people." The logic presented justifies nuclear weapons just as much as small arms.

[Kilroy the Grand]

His point is that distinction is not made in the argument of "the problem is that no matter what you ban, criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people." The logic presented justifies nuclear weapons just as much as small arms.

except the average thug isn't going to be able to buy a several million dollar ICBM, In fact I don't believe there has ever been a WMD sold legally on the open market at least to individuals. Nuclear weapons aren't available for purchase so it's a complete red herring.

[Leafsnail]

It also justifies getting rid of the justice system altogether.  I mean, no matter how many murderers you send to jail criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

To be perfectly fair, it would be far easier to kill people with explosives, A man holding a box is slightly less auspicious than a man carrying a Scary, Black, Cop Killing Rifle. Any idiot can look up how to make a bomb from ammonia nitrate, hell you can make a fully automatic smg out of plumbing parts.

Yeah, so you take anti-bomb measures too (such as requiring people to have a legitimate reason to have ammonia nitrate - I think this is already covered in the US).  In any case homemade bomb attacks are almost never anywhere near as deadly as automatic assault weapon rampages.  This fully automatic smg out of plumbing parts is not going to shoot 70 people in 2 minutes because it's an inferior homemade weapon.

Also, never trust the government, it isn't your friend. It isn't there to help you, just to screw you over.

Wheras random people with automatic weapons are always my friends, I guess?

[Kilroy the Grand]

It also justifies getting rid of the justice system altogether.  I mean, no matter how many murderers you send to jail criminals will always find ways of hurting or killing people.

To be perfectly fair, it would be far easier to kill people with explosives, A man holding a box is slightly less auspicious than a man carrying a Scary, Black, Cop Killing Rifle. Any idiot can look up how to make a bomb from ammonia nitrate, hell you can make a fully automatic smg out of plumbing parts.

Yeah, so you take anti-bomb measures too (such as requiring people to have a legitimate reason to have ammonia nitrate - I think this is already covered in the US).  In any case homemade bomb attacks are almost never anywhere near as deadly as automatic assault weapon rampages.  This fully automatic smg out of plumbing parts is not going to shoot 70 people in 2 minutes because it's an inferior homemade weapon.

So you are okay with law abiding citizens having access to bomb making materials, but not allowing them to have automatic weapons? Also "homemade bomb attacks are almost never anywhere near as deadly as automatic assault weapon rampages." But they have the potential to be far lethal, it's also far harder to catch the perpatrator, it took them over 20 years to catch the unibomber. And that "inferior homemade weapon" has a rof of over a 100rds, sure it's a smooth bore smg, but it a crowded mall you don't really need accuracy

Also, never trust the government, it isn't your friend. It isn't there to help you, just to screw you over.

Wheras random people with automatic weapons are always my friends, I guess?
[/quote]
Well statistically I'm probably more likely to be killed by a cop kicking down the wrong door, than to be shot by a gun enthusiast.

But hey, what do I know? Maybe I'm just crazy for refusing to give up personal liberties for momentary safety.

[Aqizzar]

But hey, what do I know? Maybe I'm just crazy for refusing to give up personal liberties for momentary safety.

If only because it was Jason Alexander saying it, I feel this is worth a read, just as something to read.


I'd also appreciate turning down the hyperbole before it gets out of hand.

[Nadaka]

Also, never trust the government, it isn't your friend. It isn't there to help you, just to screw you over.

Nonesense. The govornment is a dear friend. He will totally stab a dude who picks a fight with us, or looks at us funny, or is kinda brownish. Though he is one that will totally forget about the money he keeps borrowing from you, pukes on your couch and occasionally gets a little gropey with the wife.