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[Il Palazzo]

I just clocked that it's an ascension perk, which I don't like at all. It should be a technology thing that everyone should be able to have, not barred by ascension (why the hell can two species interbreed in one empire but not in another empire? Immersion breaking).

You can make the same argument about megastructures or genetic engineering perks.
The perks seem to represent the ideas a society is ok with and invested in.

[Loud Whispers]

Possible response:
1) All cultures do not allow such things. I can't see a culture embracing both slavery and interbreeding (actually, now that I've considered that, there should be a check against that).

Romans, Mongols, Spanish all had extensive slavery and nonetheless interbred with everything that moved

2) The technology requires a special scientific focus, like genetics or cybernetics.

So the ascension perk literally represents an entire civilisation going full Harkness magical realm and becoming xenophile degenerates overnight? What kind of civilisation gets together its best scientists to focus the efforts of the sum total of their knowledge in order to permit waifus: but fungus?

3) There is no natural occurrence that allows a gecko-man to mate with a mushroom.

Nor is there an unnatural occurrence that allows a gecko-man to mate with a mushroom. Consider that there is a graphical culture for a saprotophic fungus which takes over the corpses of other species, that kind of species could be given a trait to represent how it is capable of producing hybrids with all other species simply by taking over their bodies. Conversely, you can have a smooth transition from geckos interbreeding with other geckos, to other amphibians, to all other species, instead of a simple catastrophic fertility event wherein the geckos discovered they were galactic sluts overnight. Imo gradual interbreeding is da wey

*EDIT

You can make the same argument about megastructures or genetic engineering perks.
The perks seem to represent the ideas a society is ok with and invested in.

Isn't that what pop ethos is for? Why for example would two fanatic xenophiles living under a fanatic xenophobe government NOT make gecko-fungus babies simply because the ruler, whom they do not like, told them not to profane nature with their horrifying offspring? I imagine it's more a game balance thing but you can bet I'm going to try and mod it so there's maximum hybridification going on. The only downside is I hope they fix the species UI because it's god awful

[Il Palazzo]

Isn't that what pop ethos is for? Why for example would two fanatic xenophiles living under a fanatic xenophobe government NOT make gecko-fungus babies simply because the ruler, whom they do not like, told them not to profane nature with their horrifying offspring? I imagine it's more a game balance thing but you can bet I'm going to try and mod it so there's maximum hybridification going on. The only downside is I hope they fix the species UI because it's god awful

I understand that the interbreeding perk is not just a matter of star-crossed Dolly and Zorblax getting it on despite the Man telling them not to, but a matter of there not being a state-sponsored, empire-wide programme of genetic modification of all pops that would allow the offspring to physically happen. Or maybe some sort of in-vitro procreation is involved. That's how I read it.
Man, this is a silly discussion, even by bay12 standards.

[Rolan7]

I imagine it's more a game balance thing but you can bet I'm going to try and mod it so there's maximum hybridification going on. The only downside is I hope they fix the species UI because it's god awful

Yes please, hybrid races surreptitiously forming in slaver empires sounds flavorful and fun.  More migrants for me, probably   And they're literally superior heh, another nice reason to be xenophile.

[Persus13]

Possible response:
1) All cultures do not allow such things. I can't see a culture embracing both slavery and interbreeding (actually, now that I've considered that, there should be a check against that).

Romans, Mongols, Spanish all had extensive slavery and nonetheless interbred with everything that moved

American slavery too. Interbreeding just meant more slaves without having to purchase them. It wasn't endorsed, but it kept the system working.

[Loud Whispers]

Yes please, hybrid races surreptitiously forming in slaver empires sounds flavorful and fun.  More migrants for me, probably   And they're literally superior heh, another nice reason to be xenophile.

I also like the potential for emergent narrative gameplay going on. Like what happens if over time a strict hierarchy of species based slavery is fucked up by the species distinctions having diminished, or even the original species involved having died out and been replaced by the hybrid offspring

I understand that the interbreeding perk is not just a matter of star-crossed Dolly and Zorblax getting it on despite the Man telling them not to, but a matter of there not being a state-sponsored, empire-wide programme of genetic modification of all pops that would allow the offspring to physically happen. Or maybe some sort of in-vitro procreation is involved. That's how I read it.
Man, this is a silly discussion, even by bay12 standards.

Why not all 3? Have one hybrid path based off of traits, one hybrid path based off of tech and 1 based off of ascension perk? That way you could simulate a state going full overdrive to rush it into reality or simulate a state slowly getting there nonetheless

[Rolan7]

Balanced for multispecies romance

[GiglameshDespair]

Zorblax

For ages, I've always used Zorblax as a non-serious name for aliens, but I've never known where I picked it up from.

What's Zorblax from?

[Teneb]

Possible response:
1) All cultures do not allow such things. I can't see a culture embracing both slavery and interbreeding (actually, now that I've considered that, there should be a check against that).

Romans, Mongols, Spanish all had extensive slavery and nonetheless interbred with everything that moved

American slavery too. Interbreeding just meant more slaves without having to purchase them. It wasn't endorsed, but it kept the system working.

While that might've been the case in British America, in Spanish/Portuguese America kids born between enslaved people and free people did not happen for that purpose. While the sexual relation was often a master raping his servants, there are many cases where in a slave-owner's will there were entire paragraphs recognizing his children with slaves and leaving them a small part of the inheritance.

Frankly, I think the "xenophobia = alien slavery" thing that Stellaris does is kinda forced.

Balanced for multispecies multiplayer romance

FTFY

[Criptfeind]

I don't think you really need to justify why it's an ascension perk instead of a technology too much. Most of the ascension perks don't make sense if you look at them though that view. Rather it's a way to customize your empire, make it meaningfully different then others and build in a unique and interesting way. That's what (imo) ascension perks should do, and (once again imo) this one does that really really well. Certainly a lot better then most ascension perks.

[IronyOwl]

What's Zorblax from?

Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal. It's a standalone gag comic, but he frequently draws aliens the same way and calls them Zorblaxians, even with wildly different jokes.

I don't know if he made up the name entirely or got it from somewhere else, though.

[Cruxador]

I just clocked that it's an ascension perk, which I don't like at all. It should be a technology thing that everyone should be able to have, not barred by ascension (why the hell can two species interbreed in one empire but not in another empire? Immersion breaking). The tech should progress from interbreeding within a graphical culture group, to interbreeding between the graphical culture groups. So you move from humanoids <-> humanoids, to humanoids <-> literally everything, instead of immediately going to literally everything <-> literally everything with an ascension perk. Idealliest it would be based on trait & graphical culture and not necessarily tech or ascension perk at all and it'd just be a natural occurrence

I definitely prefer it as an ascension perk. Transcending the barriers of species isn't something everyone should be able to do.

I imagine it's more a game balance thing but you can bet I'm going to try and mod it so there's maximum hybridification going on. The only downside is I hope they fix the species UI because it's god awful

Yes please, hybrid races surreptitiously forming in slaver empires sounds flavorful and fun.  More migrants for me, probably   And they're literally superior heh, another nice reason to be xenophile.

I don't believe they're actually superior to begin with, but rather, you can modify them to be superior. Although the wording leaves both interpretations as valid.

Frankly, I think the "xenophobia = alien slavery" thing that Stellaris does is kinda forced.

It's complete bollocks, but they're stuck on it because apparently they want to lump all forms of inequality together or something.

I don't think you really need to justify why it's an ascension perk instead of a technology too much. Most of the ascension perks don't make sense if you look at them though that view. Rather it's a way to customize your empire, make it meaningfully different then others and build in a unique and interesting way. That's what (imo) ascension perks should do, and (once again imo) this one does that really really well. Certainly a lot better then most ascension perks.

Yeah, you can't think of this game too much based on logic or realism, because Wiz hates that as a design concept and refuses to follow it ever. It's only meaningful to think of modern Paradox games in terms of pure game design.

[Rolan7]

I imagine it's more a game balance thing but you can bet I'm going to try and mod it so there's maximum hybridification going on. The only downside is I hope they fix the species UI because it's god awful

Yes please, hybrid races surreptitiously forming in slaver empires sounds flavorful and fun.  More migrants for me, probably   And they're literally superior heh, another nice reason to be xenophile.

I don't believe they're actually superior to begin with, but rather, you can modify them to be superior. Although the wording leaves both interpretations as valid.

Hm, I feel like the screenshot implies that the hybrid was created with benefits.  Unless both hybrids were completely gene-tailored after their creation, with extra points, which is possible.

Both hybrids appear to be subsets of their parents, but with a slightly higher gene total.

It might be a deliberate thing you do through a popup, which would be a bit disappointing but understandable.  But if it is random and uncontrolled, it makes me wonder if you can "reroll" by eliminating an unwanted hybrid species.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't believe they're actually superior to begin with, but rather, you can modify them to be superior. Although the wording leaves both interpretations as valid.

Judging from the screencap hybrids get +2 trait points, so if you mix together two intelligently designed randos you should be able to have decent chances of rolling a hybrid species that is superior to both, especially if each hybridisation roll produces two hybrid species every time

Yeah, you can't think of this game too much based on logic or realism, because Wiz hates that as a design concept and refuses to follow it ever. It's only meaningful to think of modern Paradox games in terms of pure game design.

I disagree with the design concept as ignoring the main issue of the differences between Empires being gratingly artificial and shallow; species differences and government differences being largely cosmetic. The absolute dream would be doing away with ascension perks entirely, and having everything in the ascension perks be tied to policies and tech - allowing for organic differentiation between Empires that permit hybridisation, psionics, cybernetic augmentations, gene modification e.t.c., instead of the madness wherein an Empire is incapable of pursuing the same line of enquiry with greater resources than an identical Empire of identical species because they locked themselves into a now-irrelevant ascension "perk." It's emulating the weakest aspects of a Civilisation game instead of a decent 4X like Alpha Centauri or even a standard historicalsim alt history dicking paradox title, while it forces the player to ignore all perks in favour of the indispensable ones which unlock late-game pop modifications of megastructures

[Cruxador]

Yeah, I neglected to check the traits on the example, you guys are right.

Yeah, you can't think of this game too much based on logic or realism, because Wiz hates that as a design concept and refuses to follow it ever. It's only meaningful to think of modern Paradox games in terms of pure game design.

I disagree with the design concept as ignoring the main issue of the differences between Empires being gratingly artificial and shallow; species differences and government differences being largely cosmetic. The absolute dream would be doing away with ascension perks entirely, and having everything in the ascension perks be tied to policies and tech - allowing for organic differentiation between Empires that permit hybridisation, psionics, cybernetic augmentations, gene modification e.t.c., instead of the madness wherein an Empire is incapable of pursuing the same line of enquiry with greater resources than an identical Empire of identical species because they locked themselves into a now-irrelevant ascension "perk." It's emulating the weakest aspects of a Civilisation game instead of a decent 4X like Alpha Centauri or even a standard historicalsim alt history dicking paradox title, while it forces the player to ignore all perks in favour of the indispensable ones which unlock late-game pop modifications of megastructures

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but Wiz doesn't agree with you. And, I believe, Paradox's monitoring of their playerbase, or at least their interpretation thereof, supports this by suggesting that players engage more from choosing options from a list rather than shaping empires in a more nuanced (but less definite) way. I don't reckon there's any practical point in us contesting their paradigm.