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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Randy Gnoman on October 08, 2008, 10:29:17 pm

Title: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Randy Gnoman on October 08, 2008, 10:29:17 pm

Recently, I discovered something wonderful:  merperson bones.  Merperson skull totems, at base quality, are worth 500- which means that a masterful one would be worth 6000.  When you're living next to a good-aligned ocean, merpeople are a renewable resource:  the only problem is catching the darned things.  Thus far, I've only recovered the corpses of beached merpeople who drowned on shore.  So, here's the challenge:  help me design an apparatus which will allow me to catch and slaughter merpeople in a fashion which guarantees recovery of the remains!

Now, this is what I have in mind:  an underwater funnel, leading to cage traps and sealed on both ends by floodgates, with pumps on top to drain the funnel.  Catching the merpeople alive would be optimal, because recovering cages is not as time sensitive as recovering corpses, so I could drain whatever underwater trapping area I'd used at my leisure and drown the things on land to get at their precious internals.  Breeding them would, unfortunately, be somewhat impractical, as they have only single children and take 12 years to mature...

The funnel:

Code: [Select]

770╗777777777777777
777╚═╗7777777777777
77777╚═╗77777777777
7777777╠════════╗77
7777777█^^^^^^^^█77
7777777╠════════╝77
77777╔═╝77777777777
777╔═╝7777777777777
770╝777777777777777
Either or both walls of the thin funnel should have screw pumps mounted to drain the thin passage of water if and when the traps are triggered, and the floodgates should be left open at all other times.  I've had relative success using such funnels in terrestrial trapping, but in those cases there was the added inducement of a drafted peasant chasing the animals in question.  I have no idea if an unfrightened animal tries to find a path to a specific destination, or moves totally at random choosing from available adjacent squares- in the case of the former, the funnel channels the creature or creatures from a broad area into a narrow area with good reliability if the creature can be got into the broad mouth of the funnel with sufficient inducement to keep moving, while in the case of the latter one imagines that the funnel may have no effect at all, or even an adverse one...  anybody with greater insight into the movement of creatures could help me with this aspect of my problem.  If unmolested creatures move entirely at random, something more like a "roach motel" with a great many entrances might be more appropriate...

But at any rate, building the darn thing is going to be quite a challenge in itself- any experienced ocean-builders have good advice on doing something like this?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on October 08, 2008, 10:32:10 pm

Dwarf Fortress: Teaching methods of genocide against merpeople because their bones are worth 6000. :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Fossaman on October 08, 2008, 10:57:33 pm

I wouldn't set it up in a funnel like that...I think an open area would be better. Animals seem to wander mostly at random, so banking on them moving into an enclosed area like that is a bad idea.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mainiac on October 08, 2008, 10:58:10 pm

I disapprove of your actions most strongly.

But if your going to do it, I think you should consider breeding all the same.  You don't need to wait for the young to reach adulthood before harvesting them.  Heck, my kittens don't spend more then thirty seconds in this world before they're off to the crossbow bolt shop.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: sneakey pete on October 08, 2008, 10:59:35 pm

To build what you want, you'll need to set up a ring out pumps, around the area you want to do it to. And continuously power them. Enjoy.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Magua on October 08, 2008, 11:44:25 pm

Since you want the bones, why is the matter time sensitive at all? 

(Or another way, don't corpses decompose to bones regardless of whether they're butchered or not?)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Randy Gnoman on October 09, 2008, 12:01:41 am

Quote from: Magua on October 08, 2008, 11:44:25 pm

Since you want the bones, why is the matter time sensitive at all? 

(Or another way, don't corpses decompose to bones regardless of whether they're butchered or not?)

Bones left outside disappear over time, iirc.  Thus, if you want to recover the bones of an animal, and that animal is killed above ground- the issue is somewhat time sensitive.

The insight about the young is excellent, and I'm grateful for it:  it's going to make matters much simpler if I only have to catch one generation of Merpeople!

And the reasoning behind the enclosed area is that I'll need to drain it out after they're caught, and keep it dry long enough for my dwarves to fetch the cages without running away from the scary water.  I'm not daunted by the challenge of continuous power:  windmills don't need any base besides a machine, and can be constructed from any floating staircase on their border, so that shouldn't be the tough part... but I was hoping there might be a design out there that solved the problem of backwash scaring dwarves into suspending or canceling construction...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: sneakey pete on October 09, 2008, 12:41:25 am

Well, the alternative is to carve out your own conveniently shaped bay, with floodgates and the end and a few pumps, then open it to the ocean. Problem would be getting the merpeople in though.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: iskurthi on October 09, 2008, 10:55:25 am

Quote from: Randy Gnoman on October 09, 2008, 12:01:41 am

And the reasoning behind the enclosed area is that I'll need to drain it out after they're caught, and keep it dry long enough for my dwarves to fetch the cages without running away from the scary water.  I'm not daunted by the challenge of continuous power:  windmills don't need any base besides a machine, and can be constructed from any floating staircase on their border, so that shouldn't be the tough part... but I was hoping there might be a design out there that solved the problem of backwash scaring dwarves into suspending or canceling construction...

They won't cancel construction, even if the water rises too high, they'll just suspend it. So if you're having trouble with construction right on the edge where the water keeps cycling between 0/1/2... just keep unsuspending the construction. Even if they only increment the construction-o-meter a little bit before suspending again, you'll eventually get it done.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: shackleton on October 09, 2008, 11:04:19 am

I have to admit, I'm impressed by the downright dwarfyness of this entire plan. I've always imagined that animals migrate along a rough path (North to South, etc) but it's a hard thing to prove. Try watching the way they move.

On the other hand, a roach-motel works in any case, so that's the best option. I'd say building lots of smaller traps, with accompanying pump-systems, would be the best option. They'd be harder to construct, but once you got a relaible design mapped out, you could build more very easilly. It might be a wise idea to build a fairly extensive network of walkways also.

One big one has the worrying prospect of turning out to be in the wrong place, and hence being totally useless.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pilsu on October 09, 2008, 11:50:02 am

Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones  :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord_Shadow on October 09, 2008, 03:02:54 pm

One idea is to dig a massive underground aquaduct
Sry about  the walls, i used

Code: [Select]


ocean          channel(not to scale)
7777777777O===============O
7777777777777777777777777777|| the room
7777777777777777777777777777O============O
7777777777777777777777777777XP++++++X####|| trapped room
7777777777777777777777777777XP++++++X####D
7777777777777777777777777777O+++++++O====O
7777777777777777777777777777||++++++||
=========================O+++++++||
7777777777777777777777777777||++++++||
7777777777777777777777777777XP++++++||
7777777777777777777777777777XP++++++||
7777777777777777777777777777O=======O
777777777777O=============O
P= pressure plate
D= Door

I'm not sure if it is possible to build the wall out in to the ocean if it is this would good, you want to force the merpeoples to travel into 'The room' as it is labled. If any enter this 'the room' you must pull the lever so the flood gates will close trapping the merpeople in 'the room'. After this you pull the lever that will open the last flood gate causing all the water to drain out into floor grates trapping the merpeople out of water to die. You can pump the water back out into the ocean from below the floor grate or let it evaporate.

If pressure plates are tripped by merpeople that simplifies things. Put pressure plates at the entrence and exit. Thus when a merperson trips the plate the doors close allowing you to murrder the ceature at your leasure.

sry about any grammer of spelling errors

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pilsu on October 09, 2008, 05:36:56 pm

Harvesting their offspring will be difficult if they airdrown

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Reasonableman on October 09, 2008, 06:13:21 pm

This is quite possibly the most extraordinary thread I have ever seen.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Aqizzar on October 09, 2008, 06:16:01 pm

It's ideas like this that make me love this God forsaken game.  All these people talking about the utter atrocity off trapping migrating merpeople and forcibly breeding them, because damn it all their internal organs are valuable.  Tips-

Your double-floodgate trap corridor is the crux of the design, but the rub is to make the merpeople move through it.  As far as I can tell, animals don't have any greater path-finding logic than just picking spots on the map and moving to them with the same system dwarf squads do.  I don't think they care about where walls are because I've certainly see animals path straight through my fortress.

Since you can't build walls in the ocean, I say make your own ocean.  Dig a big artificial lake inland, connected to the ocean proper through your trap-locks.  That way, the mermaids' pathfinding is jury rigged to randomly pick destinations in your lake.  If you develop a breeding stock (which is a good idea), you can keep them in the lake, and just use the same trap system in reverse, re-releasing the ones to keep.

To breed them, you might need to capture a fairly large stock of adults (only need one male of course), but the 12 year growth time is not a problem.  Infants produce as many bones as adults, so just axe them as soon as they... spawn? come out the hole? I don't know how merpeople work.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: DanielLC on October 09, 2008, 07:40:40 pm

Moving water tends to move creatures inside of it. If you have a chasm, you can pour the water into it and strain out the mermaids. If not, you can either continually and slowly pump the water out, or make a large, multi-z-level room that you continually empty and when the bottom of it gets to 6/7, you refill. I'm not sure which would be more effective.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tubi2b on October 09, 2008, 08:33:54 pm

Is it possible to drop cage traps? You could pump out a large area and build a floor (walls surrounding), then above it build a bridge with a cage trap on every tile (if you can build them on bridges.. you get what im getting at), then drop them all at once by triggering the bridge, and it would be like a net of cage traps falling. The idea is that it would catch anything in that square and sink them to the floor, pump the water and retrieve.

Is this freshwater or saltwater? Because alternatively you could breed a large amount of crocodiles and unleash them into the waters... indirect genocide.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Wahnsinniger on October 09, 2008, 08:44:04 pm

Quote from: DanielLC on October 09, 2008, 07:40:40 pm

Moving water tends to move creatures inside of it. If you have a chasm, you can pour the water into it and strain out the mermaids. If not, you can either continually and slowly pump the water out, or make a large, multi-z-level room that you continually empty and when the bottom of it gets to 6/7, you refill. I'm not sure which would be more effective.

Something about the way you put it "strain out the mermaids"  really funkified in my head when it mixed with my experiences of making pasta. I can't really decide if this whole concept is more like Commercial Whale hunting, or more like Killing Espers just to get the Magicite.

You couldn't use grates or fortifications to do the 'straining' though, as moving water apparently can push things through them. You'd have to use cage traps underwater. On the plus side, if the whole thing can be turned off with a flood gate, you wouldn't even have to pump the water out (if its drained into a chasm, that is.)

Unfortunately most of my trapping scheme experience was from the 2D version, where you could just dig a channel across the whole outside forcing animals into small cage-able corridors quite easily. (Caught a bunch of elephants that way once I think)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Randy Gnoman on October 09, 2008, 09:28:40 pm

Upright bars allow water to pass through while obstructing creature movement.  The water can reach dangerously low levels during draining, though, which can result in premature drowning.  I've used the straining technique on large fish before with great success; if only it weren't for the hippos... the hippos... oh god, the hippos...

*ahem*

And while I don't have a chasm, I do have an aquifer below sea level, so I may be able to generate some movement in my ocean... but again, I worry that straining might cause premature deaths.  Still, it's worth a try if I can get the merpeople back... I may have inadvertently killed my entire current population of merpeople in a small construction mishap...

Anyhow, thanks for all the contributions!  My plan now is to create "roach motel" style traps using measured lava-dropping for obsidian ring-walls, using those as a base for my screw pumps, and draining the center to place the cage traps before channeling individual sections of the obsidian wall out to place my floodgate entrances individually.  I figure the backwash issue will slow things down much less with only single inlets flowing at any given time.  But who knows?  Maybe the result will be 3X the water pressure on a normal square in open ocean pump-ring and I'll have construction workers pushed back by the force of the flow!

Here are the rough blueprints:

Code: ( obsidian ring-wall mold, 1 or 2 z-levels above sea level) [Select]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~╔═══════╗~~~~~~
~║€€€€€€€║~~~~~~
~║€╔═══╗€║~~~~~~
~║€║€€€║€╠═════¤
~║€║€€€█€█LLLL%%
~║€║€€€║€╠═════+
~║€╚═══╝€║~~~~~~
~║€€€€€€€║~~~~~~
~╚═══════╝~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The floor hatches being supported by up stairs, and made of bauxite, with bauxite mechanisms linking them to levers.  I'd already produced enough for the internal pillar component, which I intended to use in order to dig a staircase to the seabed, before even realizing that the merpeople presented such a potentially lucrative project... but if I want to do this, I may need to order more bauxite.  My stock is getting fairly low, and my lava-works will have to go further into the ocean than I'd intended... anyhow, this should produce:

Code: ( rough obsidian ring wall) [Select]

777777777
7███████7
7█77777█7
7█7███7█7
7█7███7█7
7█7███7█7
7█77777█7
7███████7
777777777
Which will be pumped out and carved into some other stuff, and then stuff.  Not this weekend, though!  I'm off now, even before I can finish posting my plans, and shall be very busy for a bit... but those frolicking finned money sacks shall be mine...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: E-mouse on October 09, 2008, 09:31:57 pm

Soooooooo... anyone made a Mermaid Fortress yet?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: StrayCat on October 09, 2008, 10:49:04 pm

This thread is Dwarfcore. So very, very dwarfcore.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on October 09, 2008, 10:51:45 pm

Quote from: Pilsu on October 09, 2008, 05:36:56 pm

Harvesting their offspring will be difficult easier if they airdrown

Fixed.

Once you have them cage trapped, drop them in a spawning pool.  Once you've given them time to get preggers, open them up to an area with cage traps (possibly that fills from the spawning pool to wash them in.  wait for them to all be caught, drain, then install the traps to you can flood and re-release.  To process the offspring, simply let them out.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: inaluct on October 09, 2008, 11:36:32 pm

Really, won't you just need a room with chained up mermaids that has 4/7 water and a door leading to the airdrowning room for the babies? It doesn't really seem that hard. I might try mermaid farming.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:18:33 am

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: StrayCat on October 10, 2008, 06:10:23 pm

*Thinks.

Naaah.

ONWARD, FOR PROFIT AND GIGGLES!\

And we're not chaining them. we're caging them. Totally different thing, you know :D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Skid on October 10, 2008, 06:12:01 pm

It sounds just like the standard meat industry to me.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:16:11 pm

Yeah, well, if cows had human faces, I might feel differently about that point.

Odd how something so small can affect one's opinion so deeply.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Eita on October 10, 2008, 06:31:22 pm

Just look at the tails.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: (name here) on October 10, 2008, 06:35:13 pm

Quote

Only in Dwarf Fortress would you try to catch a mermaid to butcher her and make trophies out of her bones 

I have a sig now.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pilsu on October 10, 2008, 06:57:44 pm

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:18:33 am

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

You misspelled 'hilarious'

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: StrayCat on October 10, 2008, 08:00:56 pm

Pilsu becomes yet another winner from this thread. You receive one internets from me, good sir. I laughed- out loud, in real life. Scared my cats. I needed that.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: inaluct on October 10, 2008, 08:15:47 pm

Yes, we all agree that Pilsu is awesome. What we need to decide is how to get these mermaid bones.

Again, I propose that catching and taming female mermaids and chaining them in a room where they can give birth and waiting for their offspring to leave so you can airdrown them is the best approach. What we need to ascertain is whether mermaids are indeed tameable, and whether or not they will survive chained in a room with 4/7 water. We also need to find out if dwarves will tame mermaids in an underwater kennel and if they will chain them.

Remind me again, what biome do merpeople show up in?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Asehujiko on October 11, 2008, 07:15:56 am

Do they replenish at the map edge or do you get x of them per map and that's it untill you tame and breed them?

EDIT: Seed and Loc for those who want to try it themselves. 4x4 with tiny ocean to make jury rigging the pathfinding easier, magma and a terrifying forest to boot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Created in DF v0.28.181.40d.

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:LARGE]
   [SEED:2348669880]
   [HISTORY_SEED:4250864064]
   [NAME_SEED:3991012968]
   [DIM:257:257]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:300:80]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:800:800]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:400:400]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:400:400]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:400:400]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:400:400]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:400:400]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:50]
   [OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:2]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:15]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:1032:7:6]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:1032:7:6]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:4128:13:12]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:8256:9:9]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:8256:7:6]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:8256:13:12]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:8256:13:12]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
   [RIVER_MINS:400:400]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:100]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:200]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:2]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:50]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:8256:16512:8256]
   [RAIN_RANGES:8256:16512:8256]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:8256:16512:8256]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:8256:16512:8256]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:8256:16512:8256]
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1957/dfwatervq3.png)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Footkerchief on October 11, 2008, 08:51:46 am

Brief caution if you go the "straining" route: vertical bars and grates have a bug that lets flowing water push creatures through them.  Don't know if it's also true of horizontal bars/grates.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MiamiBryce on October 11, 2008, 09:49:22 pm

Don't I remember something about merpeeps liking to try on clothes? Can such be used for bait?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: inaluct on October 12, 2008, 12:18:12 am

Good idea, MB. Guys, let's try that.

Wait, idea;

How about using floor hatches and levers to pull mermaids into pits? As in, they go over the group of floor hatches, it opens, they get sucked down with the water into a cistern, hatches close?

Would that work?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: WorkerDrone on October 12, 2008, 12:30:14 am

*Horrified*...*Thumbs up* Dear Lord. I think I have just now had the shock of horror, and the follow up of insane laughter at this extremely hilarious/horrible thread.

For this, I tip my hat.

I have never been so awed at how awesome this game is. I really must play it more.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: DanielLC on October 12, 2008, 01:52:19 pm

Quote from: Randy Gnoman on October 09, 2008, 09:28:40 pm

The water can reach dangerously low levels during draining, though, which can result in premature drowning.

Can't you just use pressure plates to make it stop draining if the water goes below 7/7 on the bottom layer? If that doesn't work, just drain out the water one level above the bottom of the strainer.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 12, 2008, 02:47:02 pm

This is the REAL story of the little mermaid.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mainiac on October 12, 2008, 03:00:17 pm

Quote from: E-mouse on October 09, 2008, 09:31:57 pm

Soooooooo... anyone made a Mermaid Fortress yet?

It's pretty easy to create the mermaid civ but everyone drowns on embark.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on October 12, 2008, 03:05:38 pm

Change [AQUATIC] to [AMPHIBIOUS] and there you go. I haven't looked at it so a few other fixes might be in order.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: inaluct on October 12, 2008, 03:14:07 pm

What about that embark anywhere thing? You could just embark in the middle of a tropical ocean.

Would you still get immigrants? A question for the ages.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mainiac on October 12, 2008, 03:15:15 pm

Yeah, amphibious fixes the drowning but there's still other problems, like the fact that you can't build workshops under water and your miners won't dig sea caves, meaning you need to stay on land to get anything done.

What's embark anywhere?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on October 12, 2008, 03:16:49 pm

Well, you'd be able to build by the shore. Yes, embarking in an ocean would flood you with "dangerous terrain" messages and you wouldn't be able to do anything.

Embark Anywhere is a utility to embark places you normally wouldn't be able to embark, like all mountains, oceans.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Alopix on October 13, 2008, 01:16:21 am

 :'(

so... much... win...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: ikkonoishi on October 13, 2008, 03:59:32 am

You can't tame them because they don't have a pet tag. I don't know if [CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK] creatures will breed properly.

Embark anywhere starts you out deep under ground if you are on an ocean square. Theoretically you could then tile edit your way out though it seems that all underground tiles in the ocean are automatically aquifers since water spawned all the way down there.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Hoborobo234 on October 13, 2008, 05:00:08 am

Ok Im gonna add [amphibious] and [INDIV_CONTROLLABE] to merpeeps. This should be win enough, with my adventurer Dragon on the loose and a merperson seige just around the corner ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tsktac on October 13, 2008, 03:41:45 pm

I Don't know if this helps but I have always thought merpeoples migrated from one side of the map to another.  Once on a peninsula map I had 3 mermen and a mermaid on one tile on the coast.  This tile was just a small diagonal notch near the tip only a few tiles from the edge of the map.
   Maybe the most efficient trap would just be a line of cage traps near the edge of the map.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Bigulp on October 15, 2008, 07:39:00 am

I think this could be adapted to suit your needs once you have caught them. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26194.0)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on October 16, 2008, 01:59:47 am

he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he... *gasp* he he he he he he he he he.
I couldn't stop giggling when I read this.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Random832 on October 16, 2008, 03:59:57 pm

Quote from: Hoborobo234 on October 13, 2008, 05:00:08 am

Ok Im gonna add [amphibious] and [INDIV_CONTROLLABE] to merpeeps. This should be win enough, with my adventurer Dragon on the loose and a merperson seige just around the corner ;D

I think you need CAN_CIV to get sieges.

In other oceanic news, is there any way to get rid of the "dangerous terrain" idea? digging underwater caves would be awesome.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: DanielLC on October 16, 2008, 06:40:42 pm

Quote from: Bigulp on October 15, 2008, 07:39:00 am

I think this could be adapted to suit your needs once you have caught them. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26194.0)

No. That kills adults and children indiscriminately. The idea there is that the children will grow up and replace the adults, but it has already been decided that the 12 years it takes for mermaids to reach puberty is too long, so we should leave the adults alive and butcher all the children.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Bigulp on October 16, 2008, 06:55:57 pm

Just chain the adults away from the hatch.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Earthquake Damage on October 19, 2008, 01:18:56 am

Quote from: ikkonoishi on October 13, 2008, 03:59:32 am

all underground tiles in the ocean are automatically aquifers

This.  I recall noticing aquifers are abundant in ocean biomes.  If your ocean floor has an aquifer beneath it, work on undermining the ocean (will require lots of pumps due to aquifer woes -- that or laborious magma flushing to seal off the aquifer).  The goal is ultimately to build a hatch or floodgate that lets you drain the entire ocean into the aquifer like a sink drain.  Just suck up the water and you'll bring the mermaids to you undersea mine.  Then close the drain again and pump your mine clear.

Think of it this way:

Code: [Select]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~###
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~###
~~~~ocean~~~~~~~~###
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~###
#####o##############
# o                 
#~##################

The second lowest z level is aquifer-free (probably due to flushing the area with magma during construction to build dry obsidian walls) and blocked both from the aquifer (lowest '~') below and from the ocean above by a floodgate/hatch system (marked by o's).

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Axe27 on October 19, 2008, 01:22:17 pm

Quote from: Pilsu on October 09, 2008, 05:36:56 pm

Harvesting their offspring will be difficult if they airdrown

Well, what could be done is making two rooms with opening hatch covers and grates.So...

Room #1/#2

===============================
77777777777|=========|77777777777|
77777777777|=========|77777777777|
7777777777777777777777777777H7777|
77777777777|=========|77777777777|
===============================
Down:
                                                          |GD

H=Hatch cover
G=Grate
D=Door

Final Room would be a very large cistern.

The plan would be to make a narrow passage with a flood gate. When you get a merperson or a number of mepersons in the passage you could close the gate and open the hatch allowing for the room to empty and drown the merpersons. Or you could build vertical bars in the side open to the sea, you could breed them inside the area, and when one wonders into the other side, you could close,drown, and get the bones.

I'm so going to hell.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Squeegy on October 19, 2008, 05:13:38 pm

Quote from: Pilsu on October 10, 2008, 06:57:44 pm

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:18:33 am

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

You misspelled 'hilarious'

Sigged.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Glacies on October 20, 2008, 01:00:25 am

You people make me retch.

Well, actually you make me snicker, but only because it's only an ascii game and you're only murdering representations of semi-sentient beings.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: KrataLightblade on October 20, 2008, 01:35:42 am

Well really, if you can't be an insane Dwarven dictator hellbent on genociding Mermaids for their precious bones in a video game, where CAN you?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jetman123 on October 20, 2008, 06:05:35 am

Why are mermaids aquatic, anyway? Aren't they amphibious in folklore? O.o

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on October 20, 2008, 05:50:21 pm

Remember, we're doing this for money and to unwind. Although the whole 'video games aren't real and we're only doing it for fun' argument sort of falls when you trap semi sentient beings, then breed and slaughter them for there bones.

Oh and

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:57:44 pm

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

No, not really. I do this with unicorns but I use crossbows instead. they also serve as garbage (read: nobles) disposal. You just have to piss them off first.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Doppel on October 20, 2008, 05:56:51 pm

Quote from: Jackrabbit on October 20, 2008, 05:50:21 pm

remember, we're doing this for money and to unwind. although the whole 'video games aren't real and we're only doing it for fun' argument sort of falls when you trap semi sentient beings, then breed and slaughter them for there bones.

I'm sorry i have to be the one to tell you this, but the money aint real either.  :(

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: socially_inept_butterfly on October 20, 2008, 06:03:12 pm

Quote from: Jackrabbit on October 20, 2008, 05:50:21 pm

'video games aren't real and we're only doing it for fun' argument sort of falls when you trap semi sentient beings, then breed and slaughter them for there bones.

What are you talking about? I do that for fun all the time!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Fossaman on October 20, 2008, 06:35:18 pm

People used to slaughter whales and dolphins by the thousands for their fat and bones, remember? It's not like this is a new and horrible innovation.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Zorgn on October 20, 2008, 07:03:36 pm

Quote from: Fossaman on October 20, 2008, 06:35:18 pm

People used to slaughter whales and dolphins by the thousands for their fat and bones, remember? It's not like this is a new and horrible innovation.

Rationalize it however you want, just keep the blood flowing.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:45:48 pm

Quote from: Zorgn on October 20, 2008, 07:03:36 pm

Quote from: Fossaman on October 20, 2008, 06:35:18 pm

People used to slaughter whales and dolphins by the thousands for their fat and bones, remember? It's not like this is a new and horrible innovation.

Rationalize it however you want, just keep the blood flowing.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Lol, I just thought of The little mermaid meets DF.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Hoborobo234 on October 22, 2008, 02:51:26 pm

Quote from: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:45:48 pm

Quote from: Zorgn on October 20, 2008, 07:03:36 pm

Quote from: Fossaman on October 20, 2008, 06:35:18 pm

People used to slaughter whales and dolphins by the thousands for their fat and bones, remember? It's not like this is a new and horrible innovation.

Rationalize it however you want, just keep the blood flowing.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Lol, I just thought of The little mermaid meets DF.

It would jump from a U to an 18 Straight away. Ariel gets killed, who knew?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:54:50 pm

Ariel gets kept to make new merpeeps for slaughter.
She'd also be rendered into fat for +Mermaid fat washing powder+

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Hoborobo234 on October 22, 2008, 02:57:01 pm

Quote from: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:54:50 pm

Ariel gets kept to make new merpeeps for slaughter.
She'd also be rendered into fat for +Mermaid fat washing powder+

I can smell Hentai Porn

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:59:29 pm

Quote from: Hoborobo234 on October 22, 2008, 02:57:01 pm

Quote from: Maggarg - Eater of chicke on October 22, 2008, 02:54:50 pm

Ariel gets kept to make new merpeeps for slaughter.
She'd also be rendered into fat for +Mermaid fat washing powder+

I can smell Hentai Porn

I smell Ariel washing powder.
That's a real brand, by the way.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on October 22, 2008, 10:46:25 pm

Quote from: Doppel on October 20, 2008, 05:56:51 pm

Quote from: Jackrabbit on October 20, 2008, 05:50:21 pm

remember, we're doing this for money and to unwind. although the whole 'video games aren't real and we're only doing it for fun' argument sort of falls when you trap semi sentient beings, then breed and slaughter them for there bones.

I'm sorry i have to be the one to tell you this, but the money aint real either.  :(

What? really? Oh crap, I was paying my landlord with that stuff. No wonder he hit me with that chair!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: I3erent on October 22, 2008, 11:14:58 pm

TeH CaRp MaStEr ApPrOvEs.........

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: winner on October 22, 2008, 11:59:17 pm

Instead of cage traps you could try pressure plates and raising drawbridges. You wouldn't need  to go get the mermaids they would be delivered right to your front door.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 23, 2008, 12:11:02 am

Quote from: winner on October 22, 2008, 11:59:17 pm

Instead of cage traps you could try pressure plates and raising drawbridges. You wouldn't need  to go get the mermaids they would be delivered right to your front door.

Are.... are you suggesting flinging live mermaids out of the ocean and into the fortress via drawbridge-powered catapult? Perhaps into some spike-lined holding tank to ensure they die on impact, so your butcher can get to work right away?

I just evilgasm'd into my pants.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Foa on October 23, 2008, 12:35:19 am

Bridges as floodgates!

I dare say, what about the crushing effect; Wall Grates.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: winner on October 29, 2008, 09:05:53 pm

maybe you could bait the traps with pigtails socks, just for the irony.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on October 29, 2008, 10:08:16 pm

wha? need explain!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Doppel on October 29, 2008, 10:18:35 pm

Quote from: winner on October 29, 2008, 09:05:53 pm

maybe you could bait the traps with pigtails socks, just for the irony.

Not unless its a large gem menacing with pigtail socks.
You could ofcourse bait the trap with mermaids, or can you?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Random832 on October 29, 2008, 11:28:34 pm

Quote from: sneakey pete on October 08, 2008, 10:59:35 pm

To build what you want, you'll need to set up a ring out pumps, around the area you want to do it to. And continuously power them. Enjoy.

If the area can be sealed, you only need one pump to drain it. (of course, you need a ring of pumps to build under the water surface in the first place, but you can free up the material afterward)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: dresdor on October 31, 2008, 09:43:08 am

Quote from: winner on October 22, 2008, 11:59:17 pm

Instead of cage traps you could try pressure plates and raising drawbridges. You wouldn't need  to go get the mermaids they would be delivered right to your front door.

I bursted out laughing so hard at this that my dog woke up, came in the room, and looked at me like I'm an idiot.

Then proceeded to brag about how he has 27 kills on his kill list and is super-doggenly tough. 

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: peekama on October 31, 2008, 12:03:15 pm

I've never experimented with obsidian making, but couldn't you drop lava into the ocean to form a wall?  On the other hand it might just make a shower of rubble and debris.

If that did work though, you could completely wall off the north part of the ocean from the south, and dig a small trap in an artificial bay of your own.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: rubendevela on November 04, 2008, 01:33:44 am

I'd like a shot at this murmaider plan.
I embarked onto a good biome shoreline, and I see lots of unicorns walking around.
But no merfolk. Should I abandon the fortress or wait around a bit?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Aqizzar on November 04, 2008, 04:29:01 am

You came here to harvest the bones of mermaids and you're complaining about a few unicorns?

Obviously you'll need to clear out the wildlife buffer by getting rid of the unicorns.  I shouldn't have to tell you what to do with them.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Zorgn on November 04, 2008, 06:33:30 am

Quote from: Aqizzar on November 04, 2008, 04:29:01 am

You came here to harvest the bones of mermaids and you're complaining about a few unicorns?

Obviously you'll need to clear out the wildlife buffer by getting rid of the unicorns.  I shouldn't have to tell you what to do with them.

Mount their heads on your walls?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Nesoo on November 04, 2008, 07:09:20 pm

I would try something like the ASCII diagram here (http://archive.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Trapping#Catching_large_animals), replacing the channel with a wall that divides the ocean in two. You can then make a chamber to fill with traps, have floodgates at either end of the "C" shape, then open those floodgates to the ocean. If the mermaids ever want to travel from one half to the other, they'd be forced to go through your traps. When they do, close the floodgates and use pumps to empty the chamber so your dwarves can retrieve them. You could even set up several such chambers with corresponding divider walls. Depending on the size of the ocean, this might be easier to do than making that funnel.

Of course, this kind of depends on mermaids roaming around the whole map. I haven't played any ocean forts yet, so I have no clue how they behave.

And yes, this whole thread made me actually laugh out loud, for a prolonged period of time ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on November 04, 2008, 07:36:25 pm

You know, one day when this game becomes uber-freakin'-famous and gets television coverage, you just know the that media are gonna find this thread. thats when the real hilarity starts.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neoskel on November 05, 2008, 12:28:59 am

Quote from: rubendevela on November 04, 2008, 01:33:44 am

I'd like a shot at this murmaider plan.
I embarked onto a good biome shoreline, and I see lots of unicorns walking around.
But no merfolk. Should I abandon the fortress or wait around a bit?

Is the ocean good? Oceans tend to be different alignments than the land they border.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Doppel on November 05, 2008, 04:20:19 pm

Wowsie, wait.
I checked modvalue of merperson and it has a whopping 50, as much as a Dragon! (it also produces 2 fat)
Oh boy, soap, here i come.

edit: err, how do you the fat out of them?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on November 05, 2008, 04:23:29 pm

merpeople, the innocent and harmless goldmines of the sea.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Zorgn on November 05, 2008, 04:31:59 pm

Quote from: chaoticjosh on November 05, 2008, 04:23:29 pm

innocent and harmless goldmines

Easier to exploit. Beats the hell out of honest work.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on November 05, 2008, 06:15:11 pm

Quote from: Zorgn on November 05, 2008, 04:31:59 pm

Quote from: chaoticjosh on November 05, 2008, 04:23:29 pm

innocent and harmless goldmines

Easier to exploit. Beats the hell out of honest work.

even if it is harder to build a catapult and fling them to there deaths. but still, honest work is nowhere near as much fun

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Armok on November 05, 2008, 07:02:19 pm

This thread is just so awesome!

*The blood god approves 100%!*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Doppel on November 05, 2008, 07:28:22 pm

So apart from megabeasts only merpeople have modvalue of 50, right? Jeebus, they are gods. (well, they will be worshipped as gods in my merpeople tallow soap shrines, hihihi)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Foa on November 05, 2008, 07:32:02 pm

Quote from: Doppel on November 05, 2008, 07:28:22 pm

So apart from megabeasts only merpeople have modvalue of 50, right? Jeebus, they are gods. (well, they will be worshipped as gods in my merpeople tallow soap shrines, hihihi)

Merpeople soap shrines!

I love the OPer!!!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Redhades on April 26, 2009, 11:36:40 am

Bump because I'm curious. Has this whole mermaid catching and farming thing been successful?
If it was, I'd like to know what the whole setup was like in the end.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stormbringer951 on April 26, 2009, 12:50:30 pm

Easier for me just to wait them to arrive on land and then air-drown. I get a tidy amount of that happening.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 26, 2009, 12:59:36 pm

I tryed this with carp.

The got smacked under bridges.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stormbringer951 on April 26, 2009, 01:02:25 pm

Anyone tried making a carp-farm yet?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on April 26, 2009, 02:22:46 pm

I made quite the livestock farm before. With cows, of course.

Having a breeding pattern of:

Code: [Select]

CBCB
BCBC
CBCB
BCBCVeal like freaking mad. It got so busy (in more ways than one), I had been overstocked with meat in a matter of 2 years tops.

Here's a (shameless plug) sample of what I'm talking about: http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-13995-livestock (http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-13995-livestock)

I wonder if it would be possible to chain merpeople in such a fashion and get similar results?

EDIT:
I figure, if mega-breeding is the greater goal, and fewer males are needed, I guess you could fashion breeding grounds in this fashion:

Code: [Select]

FFFF
FMMF
FMMF
FFFFor inversely:

Code: [Select]

MFFM
FFFF
FFFF
MFFMProvided adequate population and ratios of merpeople. Getting those numbers may be a bit tricky initially, but waiting for the numbers to increase without slaughtering could be profitable, albeit rather time consuming. Overall: freaking worth it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Albedo on April 26, 2009, 05:19:03 pm

You're understandably confused - males/females don't need to actually touch to breed in DF.  In fact, they don't even need to be in the same room, nor even have a path between them - just out of cages. (And there is some disagreement about the cages!)

Further, you hardly need a 1:1 ratio in any breeding program, RL or DF.  The majority of males should go under the knife asap if you have no other use for them (or females once you have reached your goal for animal population.)

The only advantage to chaining them up is to keep them out from under foot, and conveniently located to where any butcher might be lurking.

If you don't believe, take a few of the females and lock them in a room with no males.  Wait until they give birth once to make sure, and then wait.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tigershark13 on April 26, 2009, 06:14:12 pm

my gawd... this game is so...glorious...*goes to do something similar*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Argonnek on April 26, 2009, 07:37:39 pm

In case anyone else might try this, wouldn't placing a huge amount of cage traps on the shore catch them as they are washed up so they don't have to air drown immediately?
You need glass for the aquariums, cuz I don't think they will survive in regular cages.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on April 26, 2009, 09:09:52 pm

Animals in DF breed via subatomic spores; these spores are so pervasive and fast that a single male in a 16x16 map will impregnate every single female of his kind on the map in seconds.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: dood_ on April 26, 2009, 09:23:00 pm

Dear God, I think I love you people.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Shad0wyone on April 26, 2009, 10:11:00 pm

All that is just too complicated.
Simply drain the ocean by means of lignite blocks in iron bins!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tael on April 26, 2009, 10:30:29 pm

Well, this Mermaid problem entertainment system has caught my eye and I was hoping to make use of it, but upon inspecting my 40d11 raws, I saw that mermaids are NOT fully present, near as I could tell. So I ask, for sake of being able to engage in these most profitable actions, where can I find the raws for these beasties; or are they already coded in, and just don't appear in the fanciful creatures raw.
Spoiler is what mine says.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:CHIMERA]
   [NAME:chimera:chimeras:chimeric]
   [TILE:'C'][COLOR:2:0:1]
   [MODVALUE:50]
   [FANCIFUL]
   [GENPOWER:5]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [NO_GENDER]

[CREATURE:CENTAUR]
   [NAME:centaur:centaurs:centaur]
   [TILE:'C'][COLOR:6:0:0]
   [MODVALUE:50]
   [FANCIFUL][GOOD]
   [GENPOWER:5]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [PREFSTRING:strength]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]

[CREATURE:GRIFFON]
   [NAME:griffon:griffons:griffon]
   [TILE:'G'][COLOR:7:0:1]
   [MODVALUE:50]
   [FANCIFUL]
   [GENPOWER:5]
   [PREFSTRING:strength]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Argonnek on April 26, 2009, 10:49:17 pm

Actually, they don't appear in the fanciful creature raws:

Code: [Select]

from regular 40d
creature_fanciful

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

[CREATURE:CHIMERA]
[NAME:chimera:chimeras:chimeric]
[TILE:'C'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL]
[GENPOWER:5]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]

[CREATURE:CENTAUR]
[NAME:centaur:centaurs:centaur]
[TILE:'C'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL][GOOD]
[GENPOWER:5]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:strength]
[ALL_ACTIVE]

[CREATURE:GRIFFON]
[NAME:griffon:griffons:griffon]
[TILE:'G'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL]
[GENPOWER:5]
[PREFSTRING:strength]
[ALL_ACTIVE]They're in creature_standard (third from the bottom):

Code: [Select]

creature_standard

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

[CREATURE:DWARF]
[NAME:dwarf:dwarves:dwarven]
[TILE:1][COLOR:3:0:0]
[GENPOWER:3]
[INTELLIGENT]
[TRANCES]
[BENIGN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:beards]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[STOUT]
[MAXAGE:150:170]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[DAMBLOCK:1]
[FAT:3]
[SIZE:6]
[EQUIPS]
[CAVE_ADAPT]
[DIURNAL]
[CRAFTSMAN_NAME:craftsdwarf:craftsdwarves]
[FISHERMAN_NAME:fisherdwarf:fisherdwarves]
[HAMMERMAN_NAME:hammerdwarf:hammerdwarves]
[SPEARMAN_NAME:speardwarf:speardwarves]
[CROSSBOWMAN_NAME:marksdwarf:marksdwarves]
[AXEMAN_NAME:axedwarf:axedwarves]
[SWORDSMAN_NAME:swordsdwarf:swordsdwarves]
[MACEMAN_NAME:macedwarf:macedwarves]
[PIKEMAN_NAME:pikedwarf:pikedwarves]
[BOWMAN_NAME:bowdwarf:bowdwarves]
[SPEECH:dwarf.txt]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:0:55:100]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:45:100]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:55:100]

[CREATURE:HUMAN]
[NAME:human:humans:human]
[TILE:'U'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[GENPOWER:3]
[INTELLIGENT][PET_EXOTIC]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BENIGN]
[PREFSTRING:stature]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:7]
[MAXAGE:60:120]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:3]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[SPEECH_MALE:human_male.txt]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[MUNDANE]

[CREATURE:ELF]
[NAME:elf:elves:elven]
[TILE:'E'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[SPEED:700][GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[GENPOWER:3]
[INTELLIGENT][PET_EXOTIC]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:grace]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[NARROW]
[DAMBLOCK:-1]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[SPEECH:elf.txt]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMAGINATION:0:55:100]
[PERSONALITY:ARTISTIC_INTEREST:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:INTELLECTUAL_CURIOSITY:0:55:100]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_DISCIPLINE:0:45:100]
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:0:40:100]

[CREATURE:GOBLIN]
[NAME:goblin:goblins:goblin]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
[GENPOWER:2]
[EVIL]
[INTELLIGENT][LIKES_FIGHTING][PET_EXOTIC]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[SIZE:6]
[FAT:2]
[EQUIPS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH][HASSHELL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]

[CREATURE:KOBOLD]
[NAME:kobold:kobolds:kobold]
[TILE:'k'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:6:0:1]
[LOCKPICKER][TRAPAVOID][FLEEQUICK]
[GENPOWER:2]
[CAN_CIV][CAN_LEARN][LIKES_FIGHTING][PET_EXOTIC]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:mischief]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:3TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:150:170]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[UTTERANCES]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:ACTIVITY_LEVEL:50:75:100]

[CREATURE:GREMLIN]
[NAME:gremlin:gremlins:gremlin]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[LOCKPICKER][TRAPAVOID][MISCHIEVIOUS]
[GENPOWER:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[BONECARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:mischief]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ADVENTUROUSNESS:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:LIBERALISM:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:ORDERLINESS:0:25:50]
[PERSONALITY:DUTIFULNESS:0:25:50]

[CREATURE:WIZARD]
[NAME:wizard:wizards:wizard]
[TILE:'@'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BENIGN]
[INTELLIGENT][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGICAL]
[TRAPAVOID]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[SIZE:7]
[PREFSTRING:mysterious power]
[PREFSTRING:wonderful beards]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:3]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:25]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:FROGMAN]
[NAME:frogman:frogmen:frogman]
[TILE:'f'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER][FREQUENCY:100]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[GENPOWER:4]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][LIKES_FIGHTING][PET_EXOTIC]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[CARNIVORE]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[FAT:2]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]

[CREATURE:LIZARDMAN]
[NAME:lizardman:lizardmen:lizardman]
[TILE:'l'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[GENPOWER:4]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:6]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][LIKES_FIGHTING][LISP][PET_EXOTIC]
[CARNIVORE]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[MAXAGE:60:80]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:2]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]

[CREATURE:SNAKEMAN]
[NAME:snakeman:snakemen:snakeman]
[TILE:'s'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[EXTRACT:snakeman venom:7:0:0]
[EXTRACT_VALUE:100]
[EXTRACT_PARALYZE]
[EXTRACT_ANTIDOTE:snakeman antivenin:7:0:0:100]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[GENPOWER:4]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:6]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][LIKES_FIGHTING][LISP][PET_EXOTIC]
[PARALYZEIMMUNE]
[CARNIVORE]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:impressive tails]
[BODY:HUMANOID_LEGLESS:TAIL_STANCE:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:MOUTH]
[MAXAGE:60:80]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH][SPECIALATTACK_INJECT_EXTRACT:50:100]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:2]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]

[CREATURE:RATMAN]
[NAME:ratman:ratmen:ratman]
[TILE:'r'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[GENPOWER:4]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]
[PREFSTRING:mystery]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:3:4]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:BATMAN]
[NAME:batman:batmen:batman]
[TILE:'b'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[PATTERNFLIER][FLIER]
[GENPOWER:4]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]
[PREFSTRING:mystery]
[BODY:HUMANOID_FLIER:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:ANTMAN]
[NAME:antman:antmen:antman]
[TILE:'a'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[GENPOWER:4]
[BLOODTYPE:W]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][PET_EXOTIC]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[PREFSTRING:mystery]
[BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:INSECT_UPPERBODY:INSECT_LOWERBODY]
[SIZE:4]
[MAXAGE:3:4]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP]
[NO_SLEEP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[FEMALE]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[STANDARD_FLESH]

[CREATURE:TROLL]
[NAME:troll:trolls:troll]
[TILE:'T'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:10]
[LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2]
[GENPOWER:4]
[BLOODTYPE:C]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BONECARN]
[SLOW_LEARNER]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[LARGE_PREDATOR]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:5]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:OGRE]
[NAME:ogre:ogres:ogre]
[TILE:'O'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[MODVALUE:10]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:3]
[LARGE_ROAMING][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2][FREQUENCY:50]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[GENPOWER:4]
[SLOW_LEARNER]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BONECARN]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:low howls]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:5]
[NOCTURNAL]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:UNICORN]
[NAME:unicorn:unicorns:unicorn]
[TILE:'U'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[MODVALUE:10]
[PETVALUE:1000]
[PREFSTRING:horns]
[LARGE_ROAMING][PET_EXOTIC]
[GENPOWER:4]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:HEAD_HORN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF][MOUNT]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[SIZE:9]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:HEAD_HORN:stab:stabs:1:6:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:STANCE:kick:kicks:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:5]
[DIURNAL][GOOD]
[BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:DRAGON]
[NAME:dragon:dragons:draconic]
[TILE:'D'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[MODVALUE:50]
[DRAGONFIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]
[FANCIFUL]
[MEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FREQUENCY:5]
[PETVALUE:10000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:50]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[PREFSTRING:terrible majesty]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:CLAW_FOOT]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:10]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
[SPHERE:WEALTH]
[CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM]

[CREATURE:TREANT]
[NAME:treant:treants:treantish]
[TILE:6][COLOR:2:0:0]
[REMAINS:pulp:pulp][REMAINS_UNDETERMINED][REMAINS_COLOR:6:0:0]
[GENPOWER:5]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[FREQUENCY:5]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][VEGETATION]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR]
[PREFSTRING:beauty]
[HAS_RACEGLOSS:WOOD]
[ITEMCORPSE:WOOD:NO_SUBTYPE:WOOD:USE_RACEGLOSS]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[BODYGLOSS:CLAW_HAND:TRUNK:BRANCH_ARM:LEG_STUMP:ROOTS_FOOT]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[SIZE:11]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]

[CREATURE:SATYR]
[NAME:satyr:satyrs:satyr]
[TILE:'s'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:5]
[BENIGN][GOOD][FANCIFUL]
[PETVALUE:250]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[PREFSTRING:woolly legs]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:2HEAD_HORN:HUMANOID_JOINTS:5FINGERS:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:1]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CAN_SPEAK]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:FOREST_TEMPERATE_BROADLEAF]
[BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_CONIFER]
[BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_DRY_BROADLEAF]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:DEMON]
[NAME:demon:demons:demonic]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL][ENDING][POWER]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[FLIER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:3]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10095]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANXIETY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:DEPRESSION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SELF_CONSCIOUSNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ASSERTIVENESS:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]
[SPHERE:DEATH]
[SPHERE:TORTURE]

[CREATURE:SPIRIT_OF_FIRE]
[NAME:spirit of fire:spirits of fire:spirit of fire]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[FLIER]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][EVIL]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:firey glow]
[ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[SIZE:11]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[FIXED_TEMP:25000]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:FIRE]

[CREATURE:FROG_DEMON]
[NAME:frog demon:frog demons:frog demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:impressive bellies]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:WATER]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]

[CREATURE:TENTACLE_DEMON]
[NAME:tentacle demon:tentacle demons:tentacle demon]
[TILE:'&'][COLOR:5:0:1]
[MODVALUE:20]
[FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
[TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK][FIREIMMUNE]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[GENPOWER:5]
[BLOODTYPE:0]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[EVIL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
[PREFSTRING:corrupt intentions]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE:SIX_TENTACLES:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LUTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LMTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LLTC:stab:stabs:1:3:PIERCE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[MALE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10069]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:100:100:100]
[PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
[PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
[SPHERE:DEPRAVITY]
[SPHERE:THRALLDOM]

[CREATURE:TITAN]
[NAME:titan:titans:titan]
[TILE:'T'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[MEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:height]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:10]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:LONGEVITY]
[SPHERE:WISDOM]

[CREATURE:COLOSSUS_BRONZE]
[NAME:bronze colossus:bronze colossuses:bronze colossus]
[TILE:'C'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[MEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[INTELLIGENT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:height]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:HUMANOID_JOINTS:5FINGERS:5TOES]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[DAMBLOCK:8]
[NOFEAR]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[ITEMCORPSE:STATUE:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:BRONZE]
[ITEMCORPSE_QUALITY:5]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[NO_GENDER]
[MATERIAL:METAL:BRONZE]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[CANNOT_UNDEAD]
[SPHERE:METALS]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[SPHERE:WAR]

[CREATURE:GIANT]
[NAME:giant:giants:giant]
[TILE:'G'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[SEMIMEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[SLOW_LEARNER][CAN_SPEAK]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:height]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:8]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:20]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:FOOD]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[CURIOUSBEAST_EATER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:7]

[CREATURE:CYCLOPS]
[NAME:cyclops:cyclopes:cyclops]
[TILE:'C'][COLOR:4:0:1]
[SEMIMEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:single eye]
[BODY:HUMANOID:1EYE:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:16]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:8]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:LIGHT]
[SPHERE:LIGHTNING]
[SPHERE:LONGEVITY]
[SPHERE:MINERALS]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[SPHERE:THUNDER]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:2:4]

[CREATURE:ETTIN]
[NAME:ettin:ettins:ettin]
[TILE:'E'][COLOR:6:0:1]
[SEMIMEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:arguing heads]
[BODY:HUMANOID_2HEAD:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:12]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:8]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:SPEECH]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[CURIOUSBEAST_EATER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM]

[CREATURE:MINOTAUR]
[NAME:minotaur:minotaurs:minotaur]
[TILE:'M'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[SEMIMEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:horns]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:2HEAD_HORN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:9]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:8]
[EQUIPS]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:CAVERNS]
[SPHERE:CHAOS]
[SPHERE:DARKNESS]
[SPHERE:DEFORMITY]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]

[CREATURE:SASQUATCH]
[NAME:sasquatch:sasquatches:sasquatch]
[TILE:'S'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[MODVALUE:10]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING][SAVAGE][DIFFICULTY:2][FREQUENCY:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[FANCIFUL]
[GENPOWER:4]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:white fur]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:5]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[BIOME:GLACIER]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:300]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:BLIZZARD_MAN]
[NAME:blizzard man:blizzard men:blizzard man]
[TILE:'M'][COLOR:3:0:1]
[MODVALUE:10]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2][FREQUENCY:5]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[GENPOWER:4]
[SLOW_LEARNER]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:translucent skin]
[PREFSTRING:icicle teeth]
[PREFSTRING:glowing red eyes]
[PREFSTRING:pointy ears]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[SIZE:9]
[MAXAGE:800:1000]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:4:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ITEMCORPSE:LIQUID_MISC:NO_SUBTYPE:WATER:NO_MATGLOSS]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:5]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:GLACIER]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[NO_GENDER]
[MATERIAL:WATER:NO_MATGLOSS]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:WOLF_ICE]
[NAME:ice wolf:ice wolves:ice wolf]
[TILE:'w'][COLOR:7:0:1]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:10]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL][MEANDERER]
[PETVALUE:50]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[PREFSTRING:piercing howls]
[BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:5]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:ice wolf pup:ice wolf pups]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:GLACIER]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:300]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:FAIRY]
[NAME:fairy:fairies:fairy]
[TILE:249][COLOR:6:0:1]
[FANCIFUL]
[VERMIN_GROUNDER][FREQUENCY:100]
[FLIER][GOOD]
[SMALL_REMAINS][PET_EXOTIC]
[SPEED:700]
[PETVALUE:10]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[PREFSTRING:babylike giggles]
[PREFSTRING:lacy wings]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[LIGHT_GEN]
[BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:250:500]

[CREATURE:PIXIE]
[NAME:pixie:pixies:pixie]
[TILE:250][COLOR:3:0:1]
[VERMIN_GROUNDER][VERMIN_MICRO][FREQUENCY:100]
[FANCIFUL]
[FLIER][PET_EXOTIC][GOOD]
[SMALL_REMAINS]
[SPEED:700]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[PREFSTRING:shifting colors]
[PREFSTRING:intricate aerial dances]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[LIGHT_GEN]
[BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2500:5000]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:100:200]

[CREATURE:BEAK_DOG]
[NAME:beak dog:beak dogs:beak dog]
[TILE:'B'][COLOR:4:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:25]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL][MOUNT][MEANDERER]
[PETVALUE:50]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[PREFSTRING:chatters and clicks]
[PREFSTRING:hunched backs]
[PREFSTRING:large beaks]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW:CLAW_HAND]
[SIZE:7]
[MAXAGE:10:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:beak dog pup:beak dog pups]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:GRIMELING]
[NAME:grimeling:grimelings:grimeling]
[TILE:'g'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
[GENPOWER:4]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE][VEGETATION]
[CARNIVORE]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:slithering nature]
[PREFSTRING:weedy bodies]
[NOSMELLYROT]
[NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION]
[NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
[NOFEAR]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:2]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:SWAMP_MANGROVE]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:WEREWOLF]
[NAME:werewolf:werewolves:werewolf]
[TILE:'W'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:4]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:25]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[FANCIFUL]
[PETVALUE:1000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:howls]
[SLOW_LEARNER]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:HUMANOID_JOINTS:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:8]
[MAXAGE:100:200]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:1]
[NOCTURNAL]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:100]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:BLENDEC_FOUL]
[NAME:foul blendec:foul blendecs:foul blendec]
[TILE:'b'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:5]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[PETVALUE:250]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:goat heads]
[PREFSTRING:goat legs]
[PREFSTRING:rotten eye sockets]
[BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:2HEAD_HORN:HUMANOID_JOINTS:5FINGERS:MOUTH]
[EXTRAVISION]
[BODYGLOSS:HOOF]
[SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:1]
[EQUIPS]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CAN_SPEAK]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:FOREST_TEMPERATE_BROADLEAF]
[BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_CONIFER]
[BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_DRY_BROADLEAF]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:STRANGLER]
[NAME:strangler:stranglers:strangler]
[TILE:'s'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:3]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:3]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[PETVALUE:250]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:resounding hoots]
[PREFSTRING:graceful leaps]
[PREFSTRING:three eyes]
[PREFSTRING:toothy maw]
[BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS:2EYES:1EYE:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[SIZE:6]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:8:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:FOREST_TROPICAL_MOIST_BROADLEAF]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:NIGHTWING]
[NAME:nightwing:nightwings:nightwing]
[TILE:'N'][COLOR:0:0:1]
[MODVALUE:4]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[FLIER]
[PETVALUE:1000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:0]
[BONECARN]
[PREFSTRING:jackal heads]
[PREFSTRING:bat wings]
[PREFSTRING:long tails]
[PREFSTRING:manes]
[PREFSTRING:fangs]
[PREFSTRING:ability to suck blood]
[PREFSTRING:tightly-stretched skin]
[PREFSTRING:needle-like horns]
[NOPAIN][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][NOEXERT][NOFEAR]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2WINGS:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:2HEAD_HORN:HUMANOID_JOINTS:MOUTH]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[BODYGLOSS:PAW]
[SIZE:8]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH][SPECIALATTACK_SUCK_BLOOD:50:100]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:LHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTOKEN:RHORN:gore:gores:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[EQUIPS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
[BIOME:ANY_DESERT]
[NO_GENDER]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:HARPY]
[NAME:harpy:harpies:harpy]
[TILE:'h'][COLOR:6:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:25]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:2:3]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[FLIER]
[GENPOWER:4]
[FANCIFUL]
[CAN_LEARN]
[CAN_SPEAK]
[PREFSTRING:feathery wings]
[PREFSTRING:fearsome talons]
[BODY:BASIC_1PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD:BASIC_3PARTLEGS:2WINGS:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:TALON_FOOT]
[SIZE:6]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:STANCE:claw:claws:1:4:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:1]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_SALTWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TROPICAL_SALTWATER]
[FEMALE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[CREATURE:HYDRA]
[NAME:hydra:hydras:hydra]
[TILE:'H'][COLOR:2:0:0]
[MODVALUE:50]
[FANCIFUL]
[MEGABEAST]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FREQUENCY:5]
[PETVALUE:10000]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:50]
[BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[NOFEAR]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[PREFSTRING:seven heads]
[BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:7HEADNECKS:BASIC_FRONTLEGS:BASIC_REARLEGS:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:CLAW_FOOT]
[SIZE:20]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[FAT:10]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040]
[SPHERE:MUCK]
[SPHERE:REBIRTH]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]

[b][CREATURE:MERPERSON]
[NAME:merperson:merpeople:merperson]
[SPECNAME:FEMALE:mermaid:mermaids:mermaid]
[SPECNAME:MALE:merman:mermen:merman]
[TILE:'M'][COLOR:3:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[BIOME:ANY_OCEAN]
[FANCIFUL]
[GOOD]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[AQUATIC][UNDERSWIM]
[GENPOWER:5]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:6]
[MODVALUE:50]
[CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
[BENIGN]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:tails]
[BODY:HUMANOID_LEGLESS:TAIL_STANCE:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:MOUTH]
[MAXAGE:60:120]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[EQUIPS]
[FAT:2]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:900]
[HOMEOTHERM:10040][/b]

[CREATURE:SEA_SERPENT]
[NAME:sea serpent:sea serpents:sea serpent]
[TILE:'S'][COLOR:3:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[AQUATIC][IMMOBILE_LAND]
[MODVALUE:3]
[GENPOWER:3]
[PREFSTRING:majesty]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][SAVAGE]
[PETVALUE:1000]
[BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD:FRONT_BODY_FLIPPERS:REAR_BODY_FLIPPERS:TAIL:2EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTOKEN:TAIL:slap:slaps:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[SIZE:16]
[MAXAGE:150:175]
[NO_DRINK]
[CHILD:6][CHILDNAME:sea serpent hatchling:sea serpent hatchlings]
[FAT:20]
[BIOME:ANY_OCEAN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:500]

[CREATURE:SEA_MONSTER]
[NAME:sea monster:sea monsters:sea monster]
[TILE:'M'][COLOR:2:0:1]
[LARGE_ROAMING]
[AQUATIC][IMMOBILE_LAND]
[MODVALUE:3]
[GENPOWER:3]
[PREFSTRING:horrifying freakish appearance]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:1:1]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][EVIL]
[BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD:UPPERBODY_PINCERS:REAR_BODY_FLIPPERS:TAIL:SIX_TENTACLES:2EYESTALKS:4EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
[BODYGLOSS:MAW]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:snatch:snatches:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[SIZE:16]
[MAXAGE:150:175]
[NO_DRINK]
[FAT:20]
[BIOME:ANY_OCEAN]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:500]

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tael on April 26, 2009, 11:11:26 pm

Awesome. Thanks.
I think, what I'll end up doing, is building a merperson maddening chamber.
Possibly make use of the super misters, see if that'll keep a merperson alive and breeding; It'll easily airdrown the offspring. . .

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tallefred on April 26, 2009, 11:39:51 pm

Quote from: mainiac on October 08, 2008, 10:58:10 pm

I disapprove of your actions most strongly.

But if your going to do it, I think you should consider breeding all the same.  You don't need to wait for the young to reach adulthood before harvesting them.  Heck, my kittens don't spend more then thirty seconds in this world before they're off to the crossbow bolt shop.

If you do kill the children, remember to only kill the males. In the long term, the females are valuable.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Murdocke on April 27, 2009, 10:19:53 pm

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:18:33 am

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1641/pic11995818344441.jpg)

Half fish, half human. Noone bothers to mention which half is which.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 29, 2009, 07:34:57 am

so did this ever work?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Dwezeldorf on July 29, 2009, 05:29:56 pm

Too bad you cant just turn the whole ocean into obsidian and mine out the mermaid corpses...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 29, 2009, 09:18:07 pm

Quote from: Dwezeldorf on July 29, 2009, 05:29:56 pm

Too bad you cant just turn the whole ocean into obsidian and mine out the mermaid corpses...

"You have struck Microcline!" Ugh...
"You have struck Mica!" Jeeze, nothing in here worth mining.
"You have struck Mermaid Bone!" Whu?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: snuflufagus on July 29, 2009, 09:43:58 pm

If only the game were just a little more complete, we could start making counterfeit merperson trophies out of people!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: dresdor on July 30, 2009, 09:46:37 pm

Quote from: snuflufagus on July 29, 2009, 09:43:58 pm

If only the game were just a little more complete, we could start making counterfeit merperson trophies out of people!

To make a good fake you'd need a human and a carp...somehow I think getting a mermaid is easier than getting a carp.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: James.Denholm on August 03, 2009, 07:37:28 pm

This just gave me an idea for another mega-project...

And it could potentially be combined with a unicorn breeding/slaughtering project if setting out to a good ocean, just to get even more cash...

*Gets to work*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Uber dwarf2.0 on August 03, 2009, 08:30:41 pm

Why not use grates to set up a beach were water can flow in and out but the goods stay in?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on August 03, 2009, 08:56:57 pm

Quote from: James.Denholm on August 03, 2009, 07:37:28 pm

This just gave me an idea for another mega-project...

And it could potentially be combined with a unicorn breeding/slaughtering project if setting out to a good ocean, just to get even more cash...

*Gets to work*

James Denholm's Fantasy Factory™? I think the networks would buy it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: James.Denholm on August 03, 2009, 09:13:46 pm

Quote from: Itnetlolor on August 03, 2009, 08:56:57 pm

Quote from: James.Denholm on August 03, 2009, 07:37:28 pm

This just gave me an idea for another mega-project...

And it could potentially be combined with a unicorn breeding/slaughtering project if setting out to a good ocean, just to get even more cash...

*Gets to work*

James Denholm's Fantasy Factory™? I think the networks would buy it.

Well, I have done a fair bit of work with pumps and aquifires, and it would be a good way to teach myself more regarding chaining, slaughtering, breeding, and livestock, so...

Yeah, why not. I was going to do a massive dam, but I like this idea more. :D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Beanchubbs on August 03, 2009, 09:16:40 pm

How much are unicorn bones worth? Are they anything compared to mermaid bones?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: James.Denholm on August 03, 2009, 09:47:45 pm

Well, I tried to generate a world in which there were good forests/shrub-lands co-existed with an ocean, but, alas, such a location seems to be rather difficult to come by. It's time to ditch the unicorn idea, and let the slaughtering commence!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sparkles on August 04, 2009, 04:19:58 pm

Quote from: Beanchubbs on August 03, 2009, 09:16:40 pm

How much are unicorn bones worth? Are they anything compared to mermaid bones?

One fifth as much as merfolk bones.  :(

Quote from: ikkonoishi on October 13, 2008, 03:59:32 am

You can't tame them because they don't have a pet tag. I don't know if [CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK] creatures will breed properly.

Has anyone seen if merfolk will breed properly if kept in an indoor swimming/spawning pool? and if so, if the water is at 4/7, can they still breathe?

Quote from: DanielLC on October 09, 2008, 07:40:40 pm

Moving water tends to move creatures inside of it. If you have a chasm, you can pour the water into it and strain out the mermaids. If not, you can either continually and slowly pump the water out, or make a large, multi-z-level room that you continually empty and when the bottom of it gets to 6/7, you refill. I'm not sure which would be more effective.

Again, anybody yet see if this is feasible, and if so, what structures are needed to "strain" out the finny moneysacks?

Quote from: inaluct on October 09, 2008, 11:36:32 pm

Really, won't you just need a room with chained up mermaids that has 4/7 water and a door leading to the airdrowning room for the babies? It doesn't really seem that hard. I might try mermaid farming.

This wouldn't work, because we'd have to mod them to be tamable and amphibious (or figure out underwater kennels), and then the "air-drown the baby moneysacks" plan wouldn't go as well. But if they are tamed, then you just tell your butcher to go after the younglings, and it's like any other meat industry: aka, boring and nondwarfy.


So from what I can gather from the thread currently is that, without modding, you'd need to funnel your merfolk out of the ocean, and into a concentration camp breeding pool, and then somehow separate out the children and extraneous males from the herd, either by airdrowning or some other devious means (preferably involving magma, aquifers, drawbridges, and forgotten levers).

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on August 05, 2009, 01:39:30 pm

alright, my plan is to set up a good ol' concentration camp, get your merfolk in however, then have little pens made of floodgates that all go of with a levar pull.  Next, you thumb through and find a pen you'd like, pull the switch... and watch them plummet 10 z levels along with the water from the pen.  reset pen, let refill.  Scrape mersoup off the bottom.

Extra chunky.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Beanchubbs on August 05, 2009, 03:47:29 pm

The idea is to kill the babies while not even harming the females and the breeding males. It's a good plan but it would kill all the merpeople in one go, not allowing you to get a constant supply of their bones.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on August 05, 2009, 04:51:59 pm

Which is why you let them mill about, then throw the switch to cut the area up into small pens, which you then decided individually what's what.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Wolfius on August 05, 2009, 05:44:48 pm

My thoughts on sea-critter catching.

Code: [Select]

Surface
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ <-Ocean
+++++++++
+.......+
+.......+
+.......+
+.......+
+%%%%%%%+ <- Draining Pumps to create current
█%%%%%%%█
█+++++++█ <- Off-Map Water Dump(prolly flanked by raised bridges)

Z-1
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
█XXXXXXX█ <- Floodgates
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█ <-Pump's draw from this to create current
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█
█████████
█████████
█████████

Z-2
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
█████████
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█ <- Containment Pond, keeps merfolk from air-drowning
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈X <- Floodgate to merperson processing
█≈≈≈≈≈≈≈█
█████████
█████████
█████████

Pumps create a current, while avoiding the direct-flow method's risk of useful goods/critters being flushed through grates or fortifications.

Once you get the merfolk into the containment area, you can open the 'gate and wait for them to exit into a flooded corridor, or (if you close the upper  floodgates)open it into an evaporation chamber and just dry the suckers.

Or, after sealing the upper gates, you could have it floored with hatches instead and drop them into a processing pool, or whatever you like.


The off-map water flow is contained by raised bridges(unless you can build in a hillside or the ilk, and use edge-fortifications to drain), as those can be built right up to the map edge, where constructed walls can't be.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: 00Elf on August 06, 2009, 03:14:31 am

I'm going to try a plan similar to this, only with giant eagles.

My plan is to build a giant stone sphere supported by pillars ten z-levels above the ground. After that it's just a simple matter of rigging up doors to levers and waiting for the eagles to fly in.

I'm not sure what I'll do with my eaglesphere, but it seems like the dwarfy thing to do.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Beanchubbs on August 06, 2009, 09:08:02 am

Collapse your eagle sphere to the ground while it's filled with eagles and baby eagles.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: 00Elf on August 06, 2009, 02:34:31 pm

I wonder if I can tame hundreds of eagles.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on August 06, 2009, 07:07:41 pm

you can, just don't plan to chain them if they ever get loose, your dwarves will just run around 10 z levels below them jumping trying to catch them.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on August 06, 2009, 07:27:34 pm

Wouldn't they just linger at the designated gathering zone like all other tames animals do?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on August 06, 2009, 07:42:23 pm

hmm... maybe

I tend towards three z level meeting halls at times though

Perhaps if I closed the windows they'd go though the halls between them, though.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 12:49:42 am

What would happen if you chained several eagles to a block and destroyed the supports? Could they fly away with it?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sparkles on August 07, 2009, 01:43:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 12:49:42 am

What would happen if you chained several eagles to a block and destroyed the supports? Could they fly away with it?

Eagle-powered airship.

That is all.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 01:48:35 am

Quote from: Sparkles on August 07, 2009, 01:43:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 12:49:42 am

What would happen if you chained several eagles to a block and destroyed the supports? Could they fly away with it?

Eagle-powered airship.

That is all.

My god what have i done?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sensei on August 07, 2009, 01:50:53 am

I know for sure that creatures such as fish (and mermaids) can breath in 4/7 water. So you could possibly just send in hunting parties.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on August 07, 2009, 01:55:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 01:48:35 am

Quote from: Sparkles on August 07, 2009, 01:43:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 12:49:42 am

What would happen if you chained several eagles to a block and destroyed the supports? Could they fly away with it?

Eagle-powered airship.

That is all.

My god what have i done?

You made a kid's movie idea.

Urist and the Giant Stone

With his friends: Olin the Cat, Dasdot the Dog, Minkot the Giant Cave Spider, and many more, all affected by a mystical element (in this case, maybe pitchblende), along with Urist which gets a claymation texture to his skin along with a swelled head.  There is cheer, singing and dancing. Fun for the family.

Their next destination: THE YORKS OF NEW!!!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 01:58:17 am

Quote from: Itnetlolor on August 07, 2009, 01:55:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 01:48:35 am

Quote from: Sparkles on August 07, 2009, 01:43:31 am

Quote from: MasterBlaster on August 07, 2009, 12:49:42 am

What would happen if you chained several eagles to a block and destroyed the supports? Could they fly away with it?

Eagle-powered airship.

That is all.

My god what have i done?

You made a kid's movie idea.

Urist and the Giant Stone

With his friends: Olin the Cat, Dasdot the Dog, and many more, all affected by a mystical element (in this case, maybe pitchblende), along with Urist which gets a claymation texture to his skin along with a swelled head.  There is cheer, singing and dancing. Fun for the family.

Their next destination: THE YORKS OF NEW!!!

I'm going to name my dwarves after them now..... see what you've done?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jackrabbit on August 07, 2009, 02:08:08 am

It's the feel-good family movie event of the year, with the dwarves you've come to know and love and JESUS MARY AND JOSEPH WHY ARE THEY KILLING THAT KITTEN? WHAT THE HELL? THERE'S A CROSSBOW BOLT IN LARRY THE GOBLINS HEAD! WHHHHHYYYYYYY?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Nightwind on August 07, 2009, 02:13:20 am

Quote from: 00Elf on August 06, 2009, 03:14:31 am

I'm not sure what I'll do with my eaglesphere, but it seems like the dwarfy thing to do.

Make it of the right materials...

Then add a sphere of glass, holding water and merpeople.

A sphere of obsidian containing fire imps and magma men.

A hollow sphere of rock, with your meeting hall in it (contains dwarves)

A sphere of IRON, contaning HFS?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Nilik on August 07, 2009, 04:20:13 am

Quote from: Aqizzar on October 09, 2008, 06:16:01 pm

It's ideas like this that make me love this God forsaken game.  All these people talking about the utter atrocity off trapping migrating merpeople and forcibly breeding them, because damn it all their internal organs are valuable.

In the mountainhomes, we call that industry.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on August 07, 2009, 02:15:05 pm

Quote from: Nightwind on August 07, 2009, 02:13:20 am

A sphere of IRON, contaning HFS?

I believe that adamantine is the traditional choice for capping HFS

Iron can contain the goblins.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Haspen on August 12, 2009, 09:52:59 am

Dear god, that... 'project' is both wrong and awesome at the same time.

I think of using only two water rooms, one with cage traps chains (mermaids are chainable, when captured, arent they?), water filled 4/7.
Second water room would be 1 z-level lower, linked with first through floor hatch. Also, two pumps there, one pumping water in, second pumping out (to airdrown the mermaid babies)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Beanchubbs on August 12, 2009, 10:06:56 am

Does talking about harvesting the organs of babies that were born by mothers that we chained up to breed make us horrible people? Even if this is just a game, it is still kind of disturbing. I can't talk though because I've done this with unicorns.  :D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Haspen on August 12, 2009, 10:11:51 am

Quote from: Beanchubbs on August 12, 2009, 10:06:56 am

Does talking about harvesting the organs of babies that were born by mothers that we chained up to breed make us horrible people? Even if this is just a game, it is still kind of disturbing.

We're humans dwarves, it's normal that we butcher things just because we're curious.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neoskel on August 12, 2009, 04:04:00 pm

Not completely on-topic but related: I recently mucked around in adventure mode as a modded-to-be-playable Titan. I was training up my swimming and sneak skills by swimming down the coast of a good ocean. Lo and behold, i came across two blue Ms, a merman and a mermaid frolicking in the waves.

So i snuck up on the merman, grabbed his head, slammed it into the seafloor and squeezed it until my wrestling skill went up a couple levels. Then, getting bored, i punched him in the gut (he didn't die) and went after the mermaid. I started to do the same thing to the mermaid, but after a while of squeezing her head i accidently hit the wrong button and pounded her head in. So i picked up the body and used it to pound the merman's head in.

Now i had two merpeople corpses. Knowing that merfolk bones were valuable and that shops wouldn't buy corpses, i set up a bonfire and then took the resulting bones to the nearby human town to sell. I figured i could make this a regular thing and hunt merfolk for profit. Unfoirtunately towns don't buy bones either... Now i wish i had saved the mermaid's corpse so i could continue to use it as a club.

Title: Re: Elemental Spheres
Post by: rkyeun on September 01, 2009, 08:23:57 am

Using the five elements of Air, Water, Fire, Wood, Metal

Air: A sphere made of crystal glass block floors and clear diamond gem windows, filled with nothing, containing giant eagles.
Water: A sphere made of clear glass block floors and sapphire gem windows, filled to the brim with water and containing mermaids.
Wood: A sphere made of wood block floors and emerald gem windows filled with wood block up-down stairs and containing elves.
Fire: A sphere made of bauxite block floors and ruby gem windows, filled to the brim with magma and containing fire imps.
Metal: A sphere made of steel block floors and black diamond gem windows, filled with steel block up-down stairs and containing goblins.

These are the five pillars upon which the temple of BLOOD stands, where the dwarves live and give live kitten and noble splatter sacrifices, the blood dripping eternally into the other five habitats.

Title: Re: Elemental Spheres
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 01, 2009, 03:35:27 pm

Quote from: rkyeun on September 01, 2009, 08:23:57 am

Using the five elements of Air, Water, Fire, Wood, Metal

And Urist using a heart; "Goooo Fortress!"

"By your powers combined, I AM CAPTAIN FORTRESS!!!"



...And this is how you summon Morul Cattenmat; AKA Captain Fortress.

I couldn't resist. :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Runic86 on September 01, 2009, 06:32:29 pm

Quote from: Squeegy on October 19, 2008, 05:13:38 pm

Quote from: Pilsu on October 10, 2008, 06:57:44 pm

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:18:33 am

The amount of malice in this thread is actually causing me some concern. I mean, chaining up mothers and forcing them to breed, just so we can drown their children to harvest their organs? Does this strike no one else as absolutely horrific?

You misspelled 'hilarious'

Sigged.

When i saved this to bloc notes, the save window was on my tabs folder. Judas Priest subfolder. Genocide tabs sub-sub-folder. I laughed my ass out XD

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Randomonioum on September 01, 2009, 08:48:45 pm

Now I've realised that until I have created a mermaid breeding and butchering industry, that involves baby merchildren getting flung into my butchering room by bridges activated by the movements of their own mothers, and are killed my bolts made of their forefathers bones, my time with this game will not be complete.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord Dakoth on September 01, 2009, 10:05:28 pm

Only in DF do you get discussions of how to genocide babies and children because they take up resources, slaughter merpeople for their bones, eat raw kitten meat, and set carefree, happy elves on fire.

Is someone keeping track of all these?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 02, 2009, 03:17:47 am

Grabbing an Adventurer and killing every single last living thing in the entire world?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: lastofthelight on September 02, 2009, 09:03:47 pm

Personally, when the Army Arc is complete, I fully intend to ally with the elves as much as possible, and in general make my dwarves annoyingly good.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord Dakoth on September 02, 2009, 10:55:45 pm

Quote from: lastofthelight on September 02, 2009, 09:03:47 pm

Personally, when the Army Arc is complete, I fully intend to ally with the elves as much as possible, and in general make my dwarves annoyingly good.

 :o

Actively trying to ally with the elves... just when I thought there was nothing worse than killing whole villages of children...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 01:36:14 am

How about modding the game so you play as Elves and killing off all the Dwarves, leading to an eternal Age of the Elf?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Rowanas on September 03, 2009, 06:32:32 am

DIE NOW. How dare you suggest such a disgusting thing!

That wouldn't work because elves suck. Let them throw themselves upon the might of the dwarves!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 06:40:25 am

I totally just genned a world with size 50 Elves.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 07:54:25 am

Quote from: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Well she turns into sea foam in the original, so it would be difficult to butcher her corpse, being as it's sea foam.

Although i'm sure some Dwarf somewhere will work out a way.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: uran77 on September 03, 2009, 11:10:00 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 07:54:25 am

Quote from: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Well she turns into sea foam in the original, so it would be difficult to butcher her corpse, being as it's sea foam.

Although i'm sure some Dwarf somewhere will work out a way.

by foam you mean the after product of soap ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mogul on September 03, 2009, 12:00:09 pm

I'm doing this right now. Setting up my ocean trap, training swimmers (Just in case), and planning my mermaid baby extraction method. Soon as I'm done I'll exterminate the shore wildlife to give the mermaids a chance to spawn, and if it works I'll post some pictures.

Curious though, has anyone else managed to get a working mermaid farm going? Without modding them to be tameable or making dwarfs amphibious, that is.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: lastofthelight on September 03, 2009, 03:59:43 pm

Your missing a part. Its even MORE annoying. Not only does she die. Not only does she turn into sea foam. But her sacrifice gains her immortality and a chance to someday earn her way into the Kingdom of God, in an annoyingly preachy-religious fashion.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Leafsnail on September 03, 2009, 04:19:23 pm

Oh, evangelist mermaids?  Clearly butchering them is now a moral imperative.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: madrain on September 03, 2009, 10:00:11 pm

Speaking of the little mermaid, if any of you ever are in the Købnhavn area, make sure to go see the statue by the waterside.

Then imagine skinning her and making precious crafts from her innards!  ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: zchris13 on September 03, 2009, 10:15:12 pm

Quote from: Leafsnail on September 03, 2009, 04:19:23 pm

Oh, evangelist mermaids?  Clearly butchering them is now a moral imperative.

Somebody should sig this.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 03, 2009, 10:56:54 pm

Quote from: lastofthelight on September 03, 2009, 03:59:43 pm

Your missing a part. Its even MORE annoying. Not only does she die. Not only does she turn into sea foam. But her sacrifice gains her immortality and a chance to someday earn her way into the Kingdom of God, in an annoyingly preachy-religious fashion.

Actually, the ending depressed me. She gets a chance to get in, but she has to wander the earth for, like, 300 years or something. Every time she sees a smiling child she shaves a year off. Every time she sees an unhappy child, she has to add the total number of tears that fell to the total number of years she has to wander the earth as a half-ghost.

Fairy tales are depressing.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 03, 2009, 10:58:44 pm

Why?!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 03, 2009, 11:12:30 pm

According to the story, mermaids don't have souls. But she earned the chance to get one because she gave up her life for the Prince.

Bittersweet ending.

Anyway, the merpeople in DF are most likely greenish and scaly...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 03, 2009, 11:15:57 pm

That still doesn't explain why she's punished so harshly for something that was a truly and wholesomely good act, or what happy and sad children have to do with anything, but hey, whatever, that's just depressing fairytale logic.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Rowanas on September 03, 2009, 11:17:32 pm

Well, she's obviously a retard. If I were cursed in that manner I would go to parks and sweet shops and be in heaven before the big man in the sky could blink.

Also, I'm going to ignore the logical fallacies in the story...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 03, 2009, 11:19:02 pm

The worst part is that it wasn't a punishment. That was her reward.

Their concept of rewards is incredible

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 03, 2009, 11:20:31 pm

Quote from: chaoticjosh on September 03, 2009, 11:15:57 pm

That still doesn't explain why she's punished so harshly for something that was a truly and wholesomely good act, or what happy and sad children have to do with anything, but hey, whatever, that's just depressing fairytale logic.

That's fairy tales for you. God hates the main character.

At least if it were in DF, she'd be having fun; Armok style.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mogul on September 04, 2009, 12:15:29 am

Quote from: Itnetlolor on September 03, 2009, 11:20:31 pm

Quote from: chaoticjosh on September 03, 2009, 11:15:57 pm

That still doesn't explain why she's punished so harshly for something that was a truly and wholesomely good act, or what happy and sad children have to do with anything, but hey, whatever, that's just depressing fairytale logic.

That's fairy tales for you. God hates the main character.

At least if it were in DF, she'd be having fun mermaid tallow roast; Armok style.

Fixed that for you.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 12:34:35 am

Quote from: chaoticjosh on September 03, 2009, 11:15:57 pm

That still doesn't explain why she's punished so harshly for something that was a truly and wholesomely good act, or what happy and sad children have to do with anything, but hey, whatever, that's just depressing fairytale logic.

Not punished; rewarded. She gets a chance to get a soul, unlike all the other Mermaids who are doomed to a soulless eternity.

They took souls seriously those days.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 04, 2009, 12:38:21 am

Is god just an asshole to the merpeople for no reason? Why make her do all that to get one, when normal humans don't have to work for them at all? Especially when she already made the ultimate sacrifice?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 04, 2009, 12:40:11 am

She actually makes the journey with a bunch of other half-souls who also have to wander the earth. It's not a specific punishment/reward for her, but rather it's the generic trial to get into the Kingdom for all who are in her situation.

Also: the other mermaids have 300 years to live, then they're annihilated and turn into ocean foam. Yikes.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 04, 2009, 12:41:41 am

I suppose that makes sense?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 04, 2009, 12:44:33 am

Actually, it's a hell of a lot better than being butchered for your bones and skin. ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 04, 2009, 12:50:22 am

I'm suddenly reminded of the Nickelodeon original movie about a boy that turns into a merman...

It's supposed to be an analogue for puberty, but I don't buy that everyone around him doesn't want to turn his bones into valuable trinkets.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Ieb on September 04, 2009, 02:59:36 am

I doubt they would admit their desire.

Sure, all DF players have had that moment when they notice someone, or their pet, and think how much bones, meat and fat they would produce. Or if they would look good on an artifact buckler.

That aside.

I know chasing merpeople has it's merits, but what about sea serpents and sea monsters? How deep do those things appear, and how much insanity must I muster to capture at least one.

Trapping a sea monster and placing it in a tomb to guard the entrance(bridge over water) would be... entertaining.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 03:38:01 am

Quote from: chaoticjosh on September 04, 2009, 12:38:21 am

Is god just an asshole to the merpeople for no reason? Why make her do all that to get one, when normal humans don't have to work for them at all? Especially when she already made the ultimate sacrifice?

More like he favors people. Humans are special and are the only critters on the planet that start with souls, everyone else has to earn theirs.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Evil One on September 04, 2009, 06:56:11 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 03:38:01 am

Quote from: chaoticjosh on September 04, 2009, 12:38:21 am

Is god just an asshole to the merpeople for no reason? Why make her do all that to get one, when normal humans don't have to work for them at all? Especially when she already made the ultimate sacrifice?

More like he favors people. Humans are special and are the only critters on the planet that start with souls, everyone else has to earn theirs.

Well me being an Atheist I don't believe in the soul... There's simply no evidence of a soul anywhere in the raws, and I've never seen the [SOUL] tag. :)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 04, 2009, 07:01:09 am

This is just in the context of the The Little Mermaid, you understand.

Metaphysically, the soul is a concept: the formative principle that is in all being (singular, yes). So a chair has a soul just as much as you or I do - chair-ness.

I love philosophy. ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 07:31:46 am

Yeah; we're talking in the context of the Little Mermaid story. The people who came up with it believed that Humans, being special and human, got souls for free, while all the other creatures had to work for theirs.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Evil One on September 04, 2009, 07:42:12 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 07:31:46 am

Yeah; we're talking in the context of the Little Mermaid story. The people who came up with it believed that Humans, being special and human, got souls for free, while all the other creatures had to work for theirs.

In the context of Dwarfiness I say it's unfair that any Mermaid be able to escape from being butchered by turning into sea foam.
How are we supposed to sell her bones now? :)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Jervous on September 04, 2009, 09:08:24 am

Quote from: Ieb on September 04, 2009, 02:59:36 am

I know chasing merpeople has it's merits, but what about sea serpents and sea monsters? How deep do those things appear, and how much insanity must I muster to capture at least one.

Trapping a sea monster and placing it in a tomb to guard the entrance(bridge over water) would be... entertaining.

I looked in the raws and noticed a sea monster's population number: 1. You can only find them on evil biomes I think.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 04, 2009, 09:09:03 am

Quote from: Jervous on September 04, 2009, 09:08:24 am

Quote from: Ieb on September 04, 2009, 02:59:36 am

I know chasing merpeople has it's merits, but what about sea serpents and sea monsters? How deep do those things appear, and how much insanity must I muster to capture at least one.

Trapping a sea monster and placing it in a tomb to guard the entrance(bridge over water) would be... entertaining.

I looked in the raws and noticed a sea monster's population number: 1. You can only find them on evil biomes I think.

Awww. Another injustice in the raws to rectify...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 04, 2009, 12:26:10 pm

Quote from: Evil One on September 04, 2009, 07:42:12 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 07:31:46 am

Yeah; we're talking in the context of the Little Mermaid story. The people who came up with it believed that Humans, being special and human, got souls for free, while all the other creatures had to work for theirs.

In the context of Dwarfiness I say it's unfair that any Mermaid be able to escape from being butchered by turning into sea foam.
How are we supposed to sell her bones now? :)

We can always place the remains in a still and sell mermaid floats.

It's got a bitter salty taste to it, but dang, would it be of high value. Careful of the scales though, they can shred your throat, and have a texture of glass.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: lastofthelight on September 04, 2009, 01:19:11 pm

Wait. Population number? I don't remember what that one does offhand.

Also, yeah, I've never seen a sea monster, which is sad. And I suspect that DF merpeople are traditional mermaids, just like I strongly suspect certain HFS are basically balrogs.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MC Dirty on September 04, 2009, 01:22:14 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 04, 2009, 09:09:03 am

Quote from: Jervous on September 04, 2009, 09:08:24 am

Quote from: Ieb on September 04, 2009, 02:59:36 am

I know chasing merpeople has it's merits, but what about sea serpents and sea monsters? How deep do those things appear, and how much insanity must I muster to capture at least one.

Trapping a sea monster and placing it in a tomb to guard the entrance(bridge over water) would be... entertaining.

I looked in the raws and noticed a sea monster's population number: 1. You can only find them on evil biomes I think.

Awww. Another injustice in the raws to rectify...

You can, however, increase the probability for them to appear at beaches and increase the cluster size. I forgot the token, but you can find it on the wiki.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Rowanas on September 04, 2009, 03:03:13 pm

Just to derail this again for a second...

The little mermaid dies a virgin. Her life SUCKS.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Evil One on September 04, 2009, 03:44:36 pm

Quote from: Rowanas on September 04, 2009, 03:03:13 pm

Just to derail this again for a second...

The little mermaid dies a virgin. Her life SUCKS.

Quote from: Itnetlolor on September 04, 2009, 12:26:10 pm

Quote from: Evil One on September 04, 2009, 07:42:12 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 07:31:46 am

Yeah; we're talking in the context of the Little Mermaid story. The people who came up with it believed that Humans, being special and human, got souls for free, while all the other creatures had to work for theirs.

In the context of Dwarfiness I say it's unfair that any Mermaid be able to escape from being butchered by turning into sea foam.
How are we supposed to sell her bones now? :)

We can always place the remains in a still and sell mermaid floats.

It's got a bitter salty taste to it, but dang, would it be of high value. Careful of the scales though, they can shred your throat, and have a texture of glass.

But she will be remembered :)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Time Kitten on September 04, 2009, 07:48:19 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 04, 2009, 12:40:11 am

She actually makes the journey with a bunch of other half-souls who also have to wander the earth. It's not a specific punishment/reward for her, but rather it's the generic trial to get into the Kingdom for all who are in her situation.

Also: the other mermaids have 300 years to live, then they're annihilated and turn into ocean foam. Yikes.

So THAT'S what they are talking about in FF1

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 09:06:07 pm

Quote from: lastofthelight on September 04, 2009, 01:19:11 pm

Wait. Population number? I don't remember what that one does offhand.

Also, yeah, I've never seen a sea monster, which is sad. And I suspect that DF merpeople are traditional mermaids, just like I strongly suspect certain HFS are basically balrogs.

It refers to how many critters are in the region as a whole.

Cluster number determines how many will 'spawn' on the map at a given time, Population number determines how many there are overall in a given biome. If i have a biome with 10 Rabbits in it, and there are 3 Rabbits on the map, when i kill those Rabbits the biome's population will drop to 7 rabbits. If i kill all the Rabbits, no more Rabbits will enter the map.

The populations also only breed in Worldgen, which is why long-running Fortresses can exhaust all the local wildlife.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Supercharazad on September 07, 2009, 03:38:19 pm

This could be dangerous...

People could die from lack of air caused from laughing too much!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: AlienChickenPie on September 07, 2009, 04:29:25 pm

Quote from: Lord Dakoth on September 01, 2009, 10:05:28 pm

Only in DF do you get discussions of how to genocide babies and children because they take up resources, slaughter merpeople for their bones, eat raw kitten meat, and set carefree, happy elves on fire.

Is someone keeping track of all these?

Let's be fair, economic streamlining through the murder of children has been around at least since The Sims, though that was the refuge of those who didn't know how much money they could make by forcing the children to grind for grades and then employing them in a painting sweatshop.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: tefalo on September 12, 2009, 08:54:49 pm

Oh my god...

If I could, i'd sig this whole thread.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Emily Murkpaddled on September 12, 2009, 11:29:45 pm

Quote from: MC Dirty on September 04, 2009, 01:22:14 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 04, 2009, 09:09:03 am

Quote from: Jervous on September 04, 2009, 09:08:24 am

I looked in the raws and noticed a sea monster's population number: 1. You can only find them on evil biomes I think.

Awww. Another injustice in the raws to rectify...

You can, however, increase the probability for them to appear at beaches and increase the cluster size. I forgot the token, but you can find it on the wiki.

Isn't this contingent on ocean spawning working, though? As far as I'm aware, there's still a known (it's on the list) unresolved bug preventing ocean creatures from entering the play area. I was able to spawn a few merpeople by embarking where a river joined the ocean and just being fortunate enough that they poofed into existence in the river instead of the ocean, but I have no idea if that would work for a sea monster or sea serpents.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 12:36:32 am

I've had bluefin tuna and other fishies happily wander around my ocean forts, so no, there is not a bug with ocean spawning.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Emily Murkpaddled on September 13, 2009, 01:33:36 am

What version are you using? I've embarked at over 8 ocean locations tonight and never had any non-vermin spawn in the ocean. I'd love to figure out what I'm doing wrong so I can get in on the ocean-domesticating goodness. :D

EDIT: For reference, the known bug that I referred to earlier is 000638 on http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_bugs.html.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 01:40:13 am

D11 atm, since the later D versions brought a bunch of new and improved bugs to the table.

I just did a quick test; a school of bluefin tuna definitely just migrated onto the map on my ocean fort.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Frogwarrior on September 13, 2009, 09:27:13 pm

Man, did NOBODY point out that the only point of the entire original Little Mermaid story was obviously to tell kids to stop crying and smile all the time? No duh it doesn't make sense  :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Hortun on September 13, 2009, 11:09:44 pm

Quote from: Frogwarrior on September 13, 2009, 09:27:13 pm

Man, did NOBODY point out that the only point of the entire original Little Mermaid story was obviously to tell kids to stop crying and smile all the time? No duh it doesn't make sense  :P

"Bottle your emotions and pretend everything is okay!"


And regarding the eagle-sphere a few pages back- after the sphere is sealed off and the eagle population has exploded inside, you could have a pump system rigged up through the supports to fill it with water. Put a grate at the top and after all the eagles have drowned, a glorious waterfall will pour from atop the sphere, crashing down 15 or 20 z levels to your outdoor statue garden.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

What kind of dwarf are you, drinking water?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 13, 2009, 11:51:19 pm

Quote from: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

What kind of dwarf are you, drinking water?

Mermaid float is still nice and frothy.

I've got barrels of this stuff.

"Royal Red Tide"
Tastes like red tide.

There's another one

"Green Weed Dreem"
Tastes more like seaweed mixed with sewage foam. Radioactive mermaids were born in this stuff.

One more, with a seemingly colorful taste to it.

"Blueberry Box Jelly"
as well as

"Fruity Fugu Fun"
It's a trip!

I'm overstocked on this stuff. So BUY NOW!!!

1995☼ per barrel

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL

I also have an experimental 27-flavor beer of root that is infused within this mermaid foam
"Bark Root Beer Float"


I'll even toss in a seashell bikini top with this package FREE!!


WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!!

BUY NOW!!!



EDIT:
Got a new flavor to add as well:

"Driftwood Draft"
The flavor may seem a bit waterlogged.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Frogwarrior on September 14, 2009, 12:11:00 am

Quote from: Hortun on September 13, 2009, 11:09:44 pm

Quote from: Frogwarrior on September 13, 2009, 09:27:13 pm

Man, did NOBODY point out that the only point of the entire original Little Mermaid story was obviously to tell kids to stop crying and smile all the time? No duh it doesn't make sense  :P

"Bottle your emotions and pretend everything is okay!"

Hehe. Close, but more like "Shup up and stop crying! Us grownups dont' wanna have to deal with a buncha whiny kids all the dang time!"

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Itnetlolor on September 14, 2009, 12:14:23 am

Quote from: Hortun on September 13, 2009, 11:09:44 pm

"Bottle your emotions and pretend everything is okay!"

Perfect slogan for my drink.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 14, 2009, 12:16:54 am

Quote from: Itnetlolor on September 14, 2009, 12:14:23 am

Quote from: Hortun on September 13, 2009, 11:09:44 pm

"Bottle your emotions enemies and pretend everything is okay!"

Perfect slogan for my drink.

Moar like that.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 14, 2009, 01:42:32 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

What kind of dwarf are you, drinking water?

Dead eagle water is a good thing!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 14, 2009, 02:39:04 am

Quote from: Vester on September 14, 2009, 01:42:32 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

What kind of dwarf are you, drinking water?

Dead eagle water is a good thing!

Dead eagle beer is better.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Aldaris on September 14, 2009, 10:26:20 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 14, 2009, 02:39:04 am

Quote from: Vester on September 14, 2009, 01:42:32 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 13, 2009, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Vester on September 13, 2009, 11:24:34 pm

The water will of course taste like dead eagles.

What kind of dwarf are you, drinking water?

Dead eagle water is a good thing!

Dead eagle beer is better.

In a dubble-layered awesomemantine mug, with magma in between the two layers, anyone that survives a drink from that beast is promoted to champion status.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: h45hc0d3 on September 26, 2009, 02:50:57 am

Alright, I'm pretty sure I have to get in on this one. I think I've got a plan that involves more pumps than the others, but will end up letting me work on more levels of the ocean at once.

Four questions, before I embark into an ocean biome:

1. If I dump magma into ocean, does it become obsidian on the floor or the surface?
2. If I drop fully-formed obsidian tiles into the ocean, such as are formed by mixing magma and water, will they settle on the bottom as per the cavein method of stopping aquifers, thereby allowing me to place columns of obsidian with impunity all over the map?
3. If I mod dwarves to be faster so I can post responses to this thread sooner (including my soon-to-come experiments involving terrariums, aquariums, cage traps, chains, and pressure plates) is it cheating? I mean, it'd be purely for research purposes.
4. Why haven't more designs involved pressure plates to regulate fluid level? One pressure plate activates when water is more than 4 tiles deep; it drains the column using water wheels built over basically the entire ocean, or as much of it as I feel like industrializing at a time. Then, a simple lever opens floodgates to let water stream in in a wide column. Cage traps built at the bottom, using glass terrariums pre-filled with water, which ought to prevent drowning unless caging prevents drowning anyways.

I think that plan would require more labor but less cpu struggling than building an inland lake of any decent size. Any other thoughts?

Oh, and for additional dwarfiness: Kill the elves, enslave the goblins (as live archery targets, at max range from your marksdwarves, with fortifications a plenty so there's enough misses that they last), cage the kobolds (nobles like zoos, and levers, and I hear cages with occupants can be attached to levers), lie to the humans, breed the merpeople, and wear armor made from each species' specific bones when they come a'calling.

Human liaisons can go crazy, and I have no idea how losing a liaison affects your relations with the humans; but, if they send a new one and there's not a gender preference, crazy people can still get pregnant, right? Or is it like dwarves, where they require marriage/live-in arrangements? And, can crazy diplomats be caught in cages like crazy dwarves?

Basically, is it remotely possible to breed humans, too?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Niyazov on September 26, 2009, 08:12:41 am

Quote from: h45hc0d3 on September 26, 2009, 02:50:57 am

Basically, is it remotely possible to breed humans, too?

Civ creatures only breed in worldgen.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on September 26, 2009, 08:32:49 am

If you doing it for research, then research is the primary objective, not some idea of avoiding cheating. So the point is moot.

Note that there is a project going in in the Adventure mode sub-forum to build a great land of wondrous ruins for adventurers to explore, and it is common for dwarves to be modded into invincible golems for the purposes of creating the dungeons.

Besides, there are many people here who would not call that cheating, only altering the game's difficulty;

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Vester on September 26, 2009, 08:39:03 am

Invincible Golems with a Raw Speed of 1, if I'm not mistaken, making them essentially a race of deities.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on September 26, 2009, 08:52:10 am

Quote from: darkflagrance on September 26, 2009, 08:32:49 am

Besides, there are many people here who would not call that cheating, only altering the game's difficulty;

In order to 'cheat' you really need to violate the rules of the game. I don't recall there being a rule stating you can't mod Dorfs into stubby supergods, so it's not cheating, it's just changing the game.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: winner on September 26, 2009, 09:22:17 am

1 the magma becomes obsidian as soon at it touches water and then caves down to the bottom
2 yes
4 I don't know

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MC Dirty on September 26, 2009, 09:53:57 am

Quote from: Vester on September 26, 2009, 08:39:03 am

Invincible Golems with a Raw Speed of 1, if I'm not mistaken, making them essentially a race of deities.

Actually, invincible non-breathing golems bigger than bronze colossi with a raw speed of 0 which makes them two times as fast as 1.
Yeah, some people breached the HFS and instead of letting the dwarves getting killed, they abandoned because the peasant dwarves would have won.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: goron72 on October 25, 2009, 09:09:32 pm

I don't think the idea of a merperson farm is so terrible. I basically butcher all my animal babies for my meat supply anyways. Why are merpeople so much worse, you won't even eat them!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Beanchubbs on October 25, 2009, 09:26:40 pm

A way to accomplish the seperation of the babies from the adult merpeople could be a very long series of chambers and you just keep cycling the merpeople through them until you get one chamber with just the children/non-breeding merpeople then pump the water out of it. I don't know if this had been mentioned before because I haven't been on the forums for quite some time. If so I will feel a bit like a dick but if not, I will feel like I contributed another seemingly strange idea to the DF community.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Angellus on November 08, 2009, 08:06:42 am

Posting here, minor necro, but I want to read this thread later on :)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Aspgren on November 08, 2009, 08:10:23 am

Quote from: Angellus on November 08, 2009, 08:06:42 am

Posting here, minor necro, but I want to read this thread later on :)

There's this new feature in web browsers called "favourites." I also hear there's something CNTRL+D does but that's waaay above my skill level.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Angellus on November 08, 2009, 08:13:28 am

Quote from: Aspgren on November 08, 2009, 08:10:23 am

Quote from: Angellus on November 08, 2009, 08:06:42 am

Posting here, minor necro, but I want to read this thread later on :)

There's this new feature in web browsers called "favourites." I also hear there's something CNTRL+D does but that's waaay above my skill level.

I don't have DF in my favorites, it's in my head.
Also, I tend to not use my favorites :) DF is anon-browsed.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: ManaUser on November 08, 2009, 10:56:16 am

You could have at least pretended you had something to add. ::)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: rdeforest on November 08, 2009, 01:54:30 pm

http://www.amazingsuperpowers.com/2008/01/mermaid/

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Heliman on November 08, 2009, 11:20:30 pm

Quote from: Reasonableman on October 10, 2008, 06:16:11 pm

Yeah, well, if cows had human faces, I might feel differently about that point.

I wouldn't, the only thing stopping me from harvesting and poaching my fellow man is the fact that they are
1:protected by law
2:Not good eating compared to other animals
3:too damn clever to easily catch.
4:good for sex provided the human is female

Essentially, if you people were all men and all of you and myself were on an uninhabited, lawless planet the first order of business would be to insert you in mah bellah.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darthbob88 on November 08, 2009, 11:50:52 pm

Rather short-sighted. That'd be my third order of business at best, weeding out the incompetent/weak/psychotic folk for long pork. Before that, you work out what other resources you have, and what you can use to reach civilization. If civilization can be reached, do what you can to get there. If not, do what you can to make civilization. If either of those are impossible, then you go manhunting.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Heliman on November 09, 2009, 12:28:15 am

No, if your on an uninhabited planet, there's nothing at your disposal except minerals and waiting for someone to answer your distress signal could take awhile. this said, killing all of them at once (minus necessary alliances that you could om-nom afterward) and salting the bodies would be the best course of action, the others probably wouldn't take kindly to your cannibalism to begin with.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Deon on November 09, 2009, 05:36:15 am

Haha, watch a "Sealab" issue where they find a stranded submarine.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Angellus on November 09, 2009, 08:58:54 am

Quote from: ManaUser on November 08, 2009, 10:56:16 am

You could have at least pretended you had something to add. ::)

True, true...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Quift on December 01, 2009, 08:03:00 am

SO, I read through this thread and was wondering if any one has proven that mermaids do indeed breed. if they do it seems quite straightforward on how to catch them, as well as butcher them.

Build a straight shoreline where they seem most likely to be washed ashore, build a single row of pumps to get this shoreline emty. place traps beneath the shore, aswell as above it to be sure to catch any that enter. refill with water.

This should then allow you to catch them either into the submerged cages, or the shore-sided ones.

cages are then brought to the cage area and the mermaids chained into a 3/7 waterfilled room til the more permanent solution is done. Since they cannot be tamed (if they can that is awesome), there is a simple solution of how to separate the young from their mothers.

Imagine a 3x3x2 room. iIn the middle is a pillar with the chained mermaid. Around the pillar there are hatches connected to a lever. The room is filled with water. Once the lever is pulled the hatches open and the water aswell as the youngling is dropped to the room below. the lever is then pulled again and the chamber refilled. to avoid drowning you just make sure that there is a constant waterfall on the spot with the chained mermaid constantly, and thus a simple drain on the floor below to ensure that water is not flooding your fort. ideally a system that keeps the water at 3-4/7 at all times. this lower room is of course unescapable for you mermaid children, since they cannot leave the water. So there is no need to hurry, your hunters will get to them eventually...

This has the benefit of allowing your dwarves the spectacular experience of indoor mermaid hunting, where ridiculously valued game is hunted within an enclosed area for the benefit of the rich.

It also allows you to use the meat, skin and fat, and not only the bones.

and even better is that you could seal of the room to stop your hunters, and instead open a door leading to the sea to allow your youngsters to be led into a cage trap and brought to a separate room for later grooming.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on December 01, 2009, 09:01:41 am

Quote from: Quift on December 01, 2009, 08:03:00 am

SO, I read through this thread and was wondering if any one has proven that mermaids do indeed breed. if they do it seems quite straightforward on how to catch them, as well as butcher them.

Build a straight shoreline where they seem most likely to be washed ashore, build a single row of pumps to get this shoreline emty. place traps beneath the shore, aswell as above it to be sure to catch any that enter. refill with water.

This should then allow you to catch them either into the submerged cages, or the shore-sided ones.

cages are then brought to the cage area and the mermaids chained into a 3/7 waterfilled room til the more permanent solution is done. Since they cannot be tamed (if they can that is awesome), there is a simple solution of how to separate the young from their mothers.

Imagine a 3x3x2 room. iIn the middle is a pillar with the chained mermaid. Around the pillar there are hatches connected to a lever. The room is filled with water. Once the lever is pulled the hatches open and the water aswell as the youngling is dropped to the room below. the lever is then pulled again and the chamber refilled. to avoid drowning you just make sure that there is a constant waterfall on the spot with the chained mermaid constantly, and thus a simple drain on the floor below to ensure that water is not flooding your fort. ideally a system that keeps the water at 3-4/7 at all times. this lower room is of course unescapable for you mermaid children, since they cannot leave the water. So there is no need to hurry, your hunters will get to them eventually...

This has the benefit of allowing your dwarves the spectacular experience of indoor mermaid hunting, where ridiculously valued game is hunted within an enclosed area for the benefit of the rich.

It also allows you to use the meat, skin and fat, and not only the bones.

and even better is that you could seal of the room to stop your hunters, and instead open a door leading to the sea to allow your youngsters to be led into a cage trap and brought to a separate room for later grooming.

To trap the mermaids initially, you could use something like the walrus trap in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=45269.0

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 01, 2009, 09:11:58 am

This thread is terrible and awesome.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darthbob88 on December 01, 2009, 09:38:44 am

Quote from: Pandarsenic on December 01, 2009, 09:11:58 am

This thread is terrible and awesome.

You mean amazingly dwarven.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 02, 2009, 02:59:52 am

Quote from: darthbob88 on December 01, 2009, 09:38:44 am

Quote from: Pandarsenic on December 01, 2009, 09:11:58 am

This thread is terrible and awesome.

You mean amazingly dwarven.

That's what I said.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Default Settings on December 02, 2009, 03:20:24 am

I never would have expected to ask this question at one point in my life, but:

Do mermaid babies fall through grates or bars?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on December 02, 2009, 09:14:52 am

Babies don't fall through grates or bars, but children are a different size than adults, so in theory you could build some sort of sorting mechanism using pressure plates and hatches or doors.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 03, 2009, 12:04:12 am

Don't the mermaids need to be kept in WATER anyway? ._.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: riffraffselbow on December 03, 2009, 02:14:31 am

Quote from: Neruz on September 04, 2009, 09:06:07 pm

Quote from: lastofthelight on September 04, 2009, 01:19:11 pm

Wait. Population number? I don't remember what that one does offhand.

Also, yeah, I've never seen a sea monster, which is sad. And I suspect that DF merpeople are traditional mermaids, just like I strongly suspect certain HFS are basically balrogs.

It refers to how many critters are in the region as a whole.

Cluster number determines how many will 'spawn' on the map at a given time, Population number determines how many there are overall in a given biome. If i have a biome with 10 Rabbits in it, and there are 3 Rabbits on the map, when i kill those Rabbits the biome's population will drop to 7 rabbits. If i kill all the Rabbits, no more Rabbits will enter the map.

The populations also only breed in Worldgen, which is why long-running Fortresses can exhaust all the local wildlife.

So, in short, all we need to do is up the Sea Monster population count to 50?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Haspen on December 03, 2009, 06:28:46 am

Quote from: riffraffselbow on December 03, 2009, 02:14:31 am

So, in short, all we need to do is up the Sea Monster population count to 50?

May I ask - did anyone seen that Sea Monster thingy at least once? If yes, how much damage it done? Ruined fortress? Got impaled with first -cat bone bolt-?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: zecro on December 03, 2009, 11:55:17 am

On the topic of asking, has anyone ever seen a merperson in-game? Do they start obscured? What is in their description?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Kinoko_Otoko on December 04, 2009, 11:45:03 pm

I have an idea for harvesting the mermaids after they've been captured, but it would probably only work if you can designate targets... You'd simply put them all in a pool of any mermaid-sufficient depth, with a ledge one Z-level above it from which you can have your marksdwarves target the children. Then, you can use a freedom lure (open a temporary clear path to the outside) or some other means to move the remaining mermaids out of the room, and then drain the room to collect the corpses/bones.

Also, I was wondering. What is it that prevents intelligent creatures from being butchered for tallow and meat? I'm assuming that as-is, you can't make mermaid soap...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MelloHero on December 05, 2009, 12:00:27 am

Quote from: zecro on December 03, 2009, 11:55:17 am

On the topic of asking, has anyone ever seen a merperson in-game? Do they start obscured? What is in their description?

They do show up in-game, usually a couple layers under the water. My fort died of thirst before I could consider catching them, however.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mookie Love on December 05, 2009, 05:31:36 am

So I've got two mermen. The mermaid air-drowned before she wandered into a cage trap, though. Merpeople can be transported easily once caught - they're surviving just fine in wooden cages in the middle of my horrifyingly messy stockpile. Here's my oversized screenshot showcasing this along with my ugly fortress design. I didn't initially intend for this fortress to last longer than it took me to catch some mermaids and play with some fluids.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad85/Gregorys_Shit/capturedmermaids.png)

I have a really nice ocean for catching Merpeople - there's a little separate ocean pool right next to the main thing in a perfect little funnel shape. If they happen to spawn in there, there's no way for them to get out the side of the map, and little chance of being beached by the waves. Another big shot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad85/Gregorys_Shit/mermaidspot.png)
Where the wardogs are crossing next to the bridge, is where it gets cut off. There's also undead, that's what the pile of bones and corpses are about.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 09, 2009, 10:17:58 pm

Randy Gnoman cancels Count Profits: Interrupted by HydraCarp
Randy Gnoman has been struck down by Ninefish the Vengeance of Waves

(and the other dwarves scramble to check the market demand for HydraCarp bones)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on December 09, 2009, 11:05:33 pm

Quote from: Haspen on December 03, 2009, 06:28:46 am

Quote from: riffraffselbow on December 03, 2009, 02:14:31 am

So, in short, all we need to do is up the Sea Monster population count to 50?

May I ask - did anyone seen that Sea Monster thingy at least once? If yes, how much damage it done? Ruined fortress? Got impaled with first -cat bone bolt-?

I remember when I first discovered sea monsters. Since then, I elevated them to size 140 and gave them the biome [ANY_LAND] with clustersize 4-8. They utterly ravage passing traders.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Quixim on December 25, 2009, 04:23:02 am

... I registered an account for the express purpose of posting in this thread. I've played Dwarf Fortress a few times, and am preparing to download it when I arrive at my proper computer, and have been skimming through the wiki and reading a few topics to try to orient myself a bit. I am still marginally terrified, and I am sure lots of fun will be had.

I fully endorse the mermaidapault in any and all applications (such as flinging them up to a large cup on a pillar to catch them in, which can then be flushed down into the fortress by a comically oversized toilet lever).

However, once the delicious merpeople are captured, I believe that the easiest way to harvest their infants is to chain them up inside a pressurized stream or river in your fortress. Once the babies are born, they will be carried downstream to cage traps, transported happily to the rotting fields, and then released to flop around a bit before they finally die. Perhaps. Thusly, the merbabies would be immediately delivered to wherever you could want them courtesy of the 'river', while the merstud and his mercubines happily fornicate in the rapids to ease the grief of watching their children's many skulls adorn the walls of the underground city they are captive in.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sysice on December 25, 2009, 05:30:58 am

Welcome to the forums. I think you'll fit in perfectly.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Ravenplucker on December 25, 2009, 09:06:20 am

Dear god, its brilliant!

For extra points, make the merbabies drop 10 z levels to splat satisfyingly on the "Rough Merperson Floor"

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: fizmat on December 25, 2009, 12:38:29 pm

Quote from: Quixim on December 25, 2009, 04:23:02 am

I fully endorse the mermaidapault in any and all applications.

The main problems with a mermaidapult are:
1) It can't fling creatures up z-levels, only items. So you can't fling them out of the river easily.
2) We can't control the direction, it flings randomly.
I'm not saying it's impossible to use a bridge in the process, just not the way you would use it in real life.

As for merefarm-in-a-river, pressurized water doesn't push creatures/items, only diffusing water does.

I am trying to catch some mermaids now, but I just embarked and can only see 2 whales. Oh, well, as a first try that'll do. Also finding a site with magma (for easier in-sea building) and a river (for a farm like you proposed) on a shore(which can't be entered into the site finder) would've taken some time. Just magma on a shore is easy.

--Edit: If we drop merepeeps down a lot z-levels so they explode we get more bones, right?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on December 25, 2009, 12:58:23 pm

Quote from: fizmat on December 25, 2009, 12:38:29 pm

Quote from: Quixim on December 25, 2009, 04:23:02 am

I fully endorse the mermaidapault in any and all applications.

The main problems with a mermaidapult are:
1) It can't fling creatures up z-levels, only items. So you can't fling them out of the river easily.
2) We can't control the direction, it flings randomly.
I'm not saying it's impossible to use a bridge in the process, just not the way you would use it in real life.

As for merefarm-in-a-river, pressurized water doesn't push creatures/items, only diffusing water does.

I am trying to catch some mermaids now, but I just embarked and can only see 2 whales. Oh, well, as a first try that'll do. Also finding a site with magma (for easier in-sea building) and a river (for a farm like you proposed) on a shore(which can't be entered into the site finder) would've taken some time. Just magma on a shore is easy.

--Edit: If we drop merepeeps down a lot z-levels so they explode we get more bones, right?

Considering that's all you can harvest from them due to [can_speak] it makes sense...

Incidentally, this way the merbabies get to experience a wide variety of environments. First the water, then air, then finally land. You can't say their existences were futile and hopeless now!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: fizmat on December 26, 2009, 04:02:05 pm

Code: [Select]

Outdoor Animal Populations (Including Undead)
42510 merpeople
Ok, there's a big bunch of precious bone containers floating merrily somewhere in my world. Problem is, I don't see any. Is it possible they're in another ocean, not the one I embarked onto? Building a catching system to get only whales when it's finished is not very fun. Maybe i should've genned a world with just one ocean to be sure they're in my biome... Alternatively, they have "UNDERSWIM", so perhaps I just don't see them?

Anyway, breaching the aquifier and fighting thirst is fun enough for now. And yes, I haven't started a farm or dug under the aquifier yet, and it's already winter.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Spartan 117 on December 29, 2009, 06:30:54 am

This thread terrifies me in it's Dwarvenly-ness.

Clearly, this plan could only be created in a joint effort between Khorne, Armok, Morul, Ironblood, Cryptbrain, and whatever dwarf created Planepacked.

Good job.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Grimlocke on December 29, 2009, 06:38:51 am

Merpeople should be visible on the map, dispite underswim. From my experience at least.

You need to embark on a good ocean (not lake) and possibly you will need a low amouth of savagery due to their 'benign' tag.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: fizmat on December 29, 2009, 10:47:07 am

Quote from: Grimlocke on December 29, 2009, 06:38:51 am

Merpeople should be visible on the map, dispite underswim. From my experience at least.

You need to embark on a good ocean (not lake) and possibly you will need a low amouth of savagery due to their 'benign' tag.

I think it's just that you can have exactly one herd of wild animals on the map at a time, and that slot is filled by 3 whales that just float in the middle of the bay, not moving. When I'm casting the dam gonna try to scare them away with magma (failing that will just encast them in obsidian).

Will I need to mod mers to be tameable (and tame them) for them to breed?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Grimlocke on December 29, 2009, 12:29:18 pm

Quote from: fizmat on December 29, 2009, 10:47:07 am

Quote from: Grimlocke on December 29, 2009, 06:38:51 am

Merpeople should be visible on the map, dispite underswim. From my experience at least.

You need to embark on a good ocean (not lake) and possibly you will need a low amouth of savagery due to their 'benign' tag.

I think it's just that you can have exactly one herd of wild animals on the map at a time, and that slot is filled by 3 whales that just float in the middle of the bay, not moving. When I'm casting the dam gonna try to scare them away with magma (failing that will just encast them in obsidian).

Will I need to mod mers to be tameable (and tame them) for them to breed?

Im quite sure they allready have the tamable tag, but you dont need that for them to breed. Note that you cant butcher them either way, as they are talking creatures and your dwarves still have some traces of this silly thing called 'ethics'. You can only kill them and use their bones.

It is possible to edit ethics and make anything butcherable, but its bugged and only works untill you save and load the game.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: aurixdarastrix on January 10, 2010, 05:09:53 pm

All right, I think I have an idea for a sustainable two-lever mermaid pitting device, but three questions: 
First, can someone confirm that aquatic creatures travel up and down z-levels in water?  Namely between depth 1 and 2 in a two z-level pool. 
Second, around how long does does it take for a merperson to air-drown? 
Third, how much do they flop around on land? 

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: askovdk on January 23, 2010, 04:48:34 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_qL3AwJmyC1E/S1rAFdpjrkI/AAAAAAAAAU4/qllLmB22uCA/s800/OnLand_Small.jpg)

I've found a location where mermaids enter the map on land.
I haven't dug deep into the situation yet, but I tried to restart with a rebuildt world at the same location, and I got the same wave of mermaids on land.
(Another restart didn't give the mermaids, but a shark in the ocean.)

My plan is to dig a small basin close to their entry point and possibly build some walls, so fair fish doesn't enter the open ocean, - after that experiments can begin.  8)

Anyway, if anyone wants to play with this, then the seed is : 3444866524
My installation is a pure current version of DF.

Locaton:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_qL3AwJmyC1E/S1rALrfnFLI/AAAAAAAAAU8/JCSWwD7SfzA/s800/Location_Small.jpg)

I've only seen them the two times I played on the shown 5x6 area, but that may just be random bad luck.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: o_O[WTFace] on February 17, 2010, 08:21:02 am

I guess this is beyond horrible but...

Has anyone tried asploding them with a weapon trap as they airdrown?  They should go unconscious and trigger it even if they normally wouldn't right?  It looks like merpeople have 10 separable body parts, each capable of leaving behind a perfectly good merperson bone if... liberated before death.  You would have gotten a skull and bone stack from the corpse anway, so completely severed one could theoretically give 8 extra bones, or ~5 times the original value minus whatever goes flying into the ocean.  My guess is half that number is more realistic, assuming it works at all.

I guess its exploiting two bugs at once but hey if your going to slaughter them for profit then you might as well use 200% of each mermaid.   ;)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on February 17, 2010, 10:44:51 am

Hrm. Ok, I've only read about half this thread, but some ideas that might work:

It seems like the primary problem is separating the mermaids from the babies. I have a system that might work.

I've noticed that when I run a waterfall down a flight of stairs, it knocks baby dwarfs out of their mother's arms; puppies get knocked down similarly --  I expect it has to due with strength of water flow, and the fact that babies and puppies can't learn swimming skill. If you have a few z-levels, the babies fall to the bottom and die by colliding with an obstacle (the floor). Either way, they're sorted.

It might take some finangling, but I bet if you built a large chamber, connected to the ocean, then periodically closed it, let the water in it fall several z-levels, then re-opened it, you might be able to time it such that

1) the shock of air-drowning OR the rush of water knocked the merbabies loose ,
2) the water flowed back into the chamber quickly enough that the adult merpeople didn't drown.

Testing it and timing it would be the main challenges. If Mer-babies start with swimming skill that might also nix it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on February 17, 2010, 11:38:54 am

I think that the best bet would be using aquifers to create a constant flow, also I believe that the clock described here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=49193.0) can be used to automate it. With the clock you can make it so that most of the year where the mermaids are is fully submersed but once a year it will open something and create a flow that will drag the children away allowing for easy selective air drowning. The adults need to be chained for them to not be dragged away along with the children. As note to push stuff you need a non-constant flow so the clock can also be used to turn the pumps on and off to make a disrupted flow to push stuff.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: DFPongo on February 17, 2010, 12:05:36 pm

Seems that the grand total of merepeople that were hurt as a result of this thread were zero.
Lots of grand plans for mermade farms, no screen shots of same.
I think the merepeople are quite safe from your evil plans.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on February 17, 2010, 01:26:51 pm

I am currently genning a world to test my clock idea, Otherwise you are correct. I hurt more merpeople when I did experiments on the inextinguishable !!lignite!! in a bin.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: askovdk on February 17, 2010, 04:55:46 pm

Modified quote from Douglas Adams:

Quote

It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet, dwarves had always assumed that they were more intelligent than merfolk because they had achieved so much -- the magna trap, Blockedlance, =Kitten leather gloves= and so on -- whilst all the merfolk had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the merfolk had always believed that they were far more intelligent than dwarves -- for precisely the same reasons.

But the hunt WILL continue!   ;D

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: chaos985 on February 17, 2010, 08:17:15 pm

if i had a map for this, i have an idea for how to capture them.

first dig several 3 tile wide hallways 2 tiles away from the ocean.


{Ocean}
[][][][][]
[][][][][]
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []
[] ___ []

Make sure there is good drainage near the back, its about 10-15 tiles long, and that your dwarfs have access to the inside.

On the inner wall from the ocean, dig out the two outside squares, and replace them with flood gates.

Fill the entire thing with cage traps.(you probably would only need 2 or 3 rows, but this is dwarf fortress, the moment you have one, 50000000 others will suddenly decide to swim through unharmed.)

{Ocean}
[][][][][]
[]X[]X[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]
[]^^^[]

Now channel out the wall connecting it to the ocean, and start the drainage.

When the floodgates are open, there should be enough current to pull anyhing that gets close into the traps, hopefully they will get caught before being air drowned.

when the floodgates close, the drainage will empty it, allowing your dwarvs to retrieve the cage traps.

Finally, with creative use of magma, you could probably force creatures to path near enough to get caught in the current.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Earth Striker Lurin on February 17, 2010, 08:41:34 pm

I will bring this thread to the attention of the dwarven Triumverate (Digger Lurin, Digger Asmo, and Trader Khash) and we shall see if we can master this new industry.


(my god, did we just create the first Dwarven guild?  Can single player games have guilds?!)

UPDATE: 2/17/10
Well, I only got one of the other two interested so this effort may flop.  I'll post updates if I get any.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord Dakoth on February 18, 2010, 09:30:07 pm

If there is a guild, I think we should call it MSNBC: The Ministry for the Slaughter of Naive, Benign Creatures.

(May I have a rimshot, please?)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MC Dirty on February 21, 2010, 04:12:08 pm

Quote from: Lord Dakoth on February 18, 2010, 09:30:07 pm

If there is a guild, I think we should call it MSNBC: The Ministry for the Slaughter of Naive, Benign Creatures.

(May I have a rimshot, please?)

BA-DUM TSH!! (http://instantrimshot.com/rimshot.swf)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: BitLooter on March 25, 2010, 08:48:52 pm

I've read this thread, and deemed this idea awesome. Awesome enough, that I've decided to play one last fort before DF2010 to experiment with this. I'm having trouble finding a good place to work with, though; anyone have a good worldgen (with magma, preferably) I could use?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2010, 09:01:34 pm

There's the one from the third page (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.msg304452#msg304452)...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: BitLooter on March 25, 2010, 09:13:07 pm

Hmm, I should have figured someone would have posted one. It took me a few days to read through the thread, I forgot about this. This is perfect, thanks for pointing it out anyways.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Karnewarrior on March 25, 2010, 09:13:50 pm

ubash latish ungaro togayto

Epic necro is epic

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: BitLooter on March 25, 2010, 09:17:45 pm

Last post before mine was only a month ago, hardly 'epic'.

Anyways, this is a thread that will never die - if I hadn't bumped it, someone else would have sooner or later. It's even linked on the wiki page for merpeople, for Armok's sake.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Retro on March 25, 2010, 09:19:29 pm

Regardless, every time I see this thread revived it makes my day. Oh how we the community enjoy enslaving and brutally torturing merfolk so.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 01:53:43 pm

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2010, 09:01:34 pm

There's the one from the third page (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.msg304452#msg304452)...

Is this embark actually known to contain mermaids?  I've had a fortress running there for most of a year now, and I've only seen vermin in the water.  The main wildlife seems to be foxes, deer, and wolves, most of them skeletal.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: jellow belly on March 26, 2010, 02:19:27 pm

I have a question (probably already asked though)
do cages prevent air drowning?
because if they do, breeding marine life could be very profitable

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 02:32:48 pm

Quote from: jellow belly on March 26, 2010, 02:19:27 pm

I have a question (probably already asked though)
do cages prevent air drowning?
because if they do, breeding marine life could be very profitable

Cages are pretty much suspended animation cells.  Animals don't drown or air-drown in them.  Unfortunately they don't get pregnant either, although already pregnant animals will give birth in cages, so you need to let them out to breed.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 26, 2010, 02:44:39 pm

Quote from: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 01:53:43 pm

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2010, 09:01:34 pm

There's the one from the third page (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.msg304452#msg304452)...

Is this embark actually known to contain mermaids?  I've had a fortress running there for most of a year now, and I've only seen vermin in the water.  The main wildlife seems to be foxes, deer, and wolves, most of them skeletal.

I don't believe I've actually embarked there, but new creatures won't migrate onto the map until you capture or kill the old ones. (Or they migrate off.)

Alternately, you can just regen the world, copy the pre-embark save, and embark repeatedly until you get one where mermaids start out present on the map.  I'm fairly certain that the creatures that appear at embark are randomized at the time of embarking, not on worldgen, so you can just embark, look for mermaids, and abandon and delete the save, copy the pre-embark save again, and try again until you get mermaids.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: BitLooter on March 26, 2010, 02:46:03 pm

Quote from: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 01:53:43 pm

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2010, 09:01:34 pm

There's the one from the third page (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.msg304452#msg304452)...

Is this embark actually known to contain mermaids?  I've had a fortress running there for most of a year now, and I've only seen vermin in the water.  The main wildlife seems to be foxes, deer, and wolves, most of them skeletal.

Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. Supposedly mermaids appear on good territories, so the terrifying biome next door might be driving them out. And I'm starting to get annoyed by skeletal foxes chasing my dwarfs all over the map, I'll have to exterminate them.

Still, it'll do as a test case. The nearby magma and shallow ocean will make my trap simpler to set up; I've already made base camp in the land nearby and have my obsidian above-water fortress planned out. If this works for the fish in the ocean, it may work for mermaids as well. I'll be sure to post plans when it's complete.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Redhades on March 26, 2010, 04:14:03 pm

I've also been trying it out at this location. But I don't have any terrifying creatures. Though I did embark on a spot with a larger ocean space than land space.

Aren't mermaids hidden untill seen bay a dwarf or a pet? They might be out ther in the ocean water, but just not discovered yet. If so how would I go about spotting them? Should I build a path of floors all over the ocean, or should I train some dwarvs for exploratory swimming? Can dwarvs see down into water? Maybe randomly dropping pets into the ocean would get them spotted?

Using kittens as oceanic probes sounds like good plan.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 04:58:44 pm

Quote from: Redhades on March 26, 2010, 04:14:03 pm

Aren't mermaids hidden untill seen bay a dwarf or a pet?

I'm pretty sure that they're not.  They don't have [AMBUSHPREDATOR] which I think is the tag that does that for non-civ creatures.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: expwnent on March 26, 2010, 05:10:09 pm

They do have [UNDERSWIM]. See the wiki.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 26, 2010, 05:15:41 pm

Most water-breathing creatures have [UNDERSWIM], but that doesn't seem to make them invisible or not show up on the units screen.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Rumrusher on March 26, 2010, 05:29:27 pm

so cage them, drain the area and drag them to an aquarium that has bridges with fine glass so the children can see the lovely enslaved egg layers.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mythos on March 26, 2010, 05:31:22 pm

Ah, Dwarf Fortress. The only game where it's considered perfectly normal to discuss the most efficient method of farming and butchering friendly sentient beings for their valuable bones...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: ShadowLuigi147 on March 26, 2010, 05:36:30 pm

Quote from: Mythos on March 26, 2010, 05:31:22 pm

Ah, Dwarf Fortress. The only game where it's considered perfectly normal to discuss the most efficient method of farming and butchering friendly sentient beings for their valuable bones...

I needed a quote-sig and you supplied me with one. Thank you kind sir.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mythos on March 26, 2010, 05:47:11 pm

Quote from: ShadowLuigi147 on March 26, 2010, 05:36:30 pm

Quote from: Mythos on March 26, 2010, 05:31:22 pm

Ah, Dwarf Fortress. The only game where it's considered perfectly normal to discuss the most efficient method of farming and butchering friendly sentient beings for their valuable bones...

I needed a quote-sig and you supplied me with one. Thank you kind sir.

Happy to be of service. *bow*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: jellow belly on March 27, 2010, 04:00:35 am

here's another (stupid) question
when you tame an animal it's automatically released from the cage isn't it (I'm not sure it's been more than a year already since I last took my time to tame wild creatures (kill them wild don't waste meat))
that would mean that you killed the poor merman by taming him
also it's not hard getting them into an artificial pool to breed, but how do you get them out to butcher them without killing the breeding couple (or harem, whichever way you swing)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 27, 2010, 09:04:07 am

Mermaids can't be butchered, and unless I'm mistaken can't be tamed.  The only thing you can use them for are their (incredibly valuable) bones, and you can only get those by arranging for some mechanical means to separate the offspring from the adults, and then air-drown the offspring and let their bodies rot to bones.  I'd experiment with this, but I haven't been able to find an embark site with mermaids.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: assimilateur on March 27, 2010, 09:07:13 am

Way I remember it, tamed animals remained in their cages until manually released.

Quote from: jellow belly on March 27, 2010, 04:00:35 am

how do you get them out to butcher them without killing the breeding couple

I guess you drain the pool and strain them through some cage traps. I haven't tried it, but it does make sense on the face of it.

Quote from: Sphalerite on March 27, 2010, 09:04:07 am

and unless I'm mistaken can't be tamed.

Taming them is as easy as adding the [PET] or [PET_EXOTIC] tag to them. Butchering them, however, is a whole different story. For all I know, their [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] tags might be all that's keeping one from butchering them, but I have yet to try such a thing.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on March 28, 2010, 09:42:52 pm

After about a dozen tries, I have finally managed to create an embark site with mermaids/mermen.  Most of them actually spawned on land adjacent to the beach and promptly died, but if I can manage to capture a breeding population alive before they're all dead I might be able to pull this off.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: expwnent on March 28, 2010, 10:42:44 pm

Don't creatures not reproduce at all unless they have a [PET] tag?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on March 28, 2010, 11:05:25 pm

Quote from: expwnent on March 28, 2010, 10:42:44 pm

Don't creatures not reproduce at all unless they have a [PET] tag?

As Hippos prove in a terrifying way, no.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Rumrusher on March 29, 2010, 12:22:55 pm

well dump them into a 1x1 hole that's has a ramp near by then when one has a kid drain then cage the kid and either drop them 12-60 z levels for their bones or make a slaughter house out of weapon traps and water currents

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 29, 2010, 11:34:29 pm

Quote from: assimilateur on March 27, 2010, 09:07:13 am

For all I know, their [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] tags might be all that's keeping one from butchering them, but I have yet to try such a thing.

I think it's just [can_speak], honestly.  Speaking creatures are generally prevented from being treated like livestock in a variety of different ways, exceptions being those that have specific tags, like the actual [pet] tag, even though no speaking creater has the pet tag in vanilla.  Toady also mentioned that in the new version, milking will be possible on any creature that doesn't have [can_speak]... presumably to prevent people from modding elven women to be milkable or the like.  (You know someone would...)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: James.Denholm on March 29, 2010, 11:46:26 pm

Solution - Elven women can no longer speak.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Neruz on March 30, 2010, 03:46:39 am

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 29, 2010, 11:34:29 pm

Quote from: assimilateur on March 27, 2010, 09:07:13 am

For all I know, their [CAN_LEARN] and [CAN_SPEAK] tags might be all that's keeping one from butchering them, but I have yet to try such a thing.

I think it's just [can_speak], honestly.  Speaking creatures are generally prevented from being treated like livestock in a variety of different ways, exceptions being those that have specific tags, like the actual [pet] tag, even though no speaking creater has the pet tag in vanilla.  Toady also mentioned that in the new version, milking will be possible on any creature that doesn't have [can_speak]... presumably to prevent people from modding elven women to be milkable or the like.  (You know someone would...)

It's CAN_SPEAK, awhile back i modded Troglodytes to be tameable and trainable so i could fight the Orcs with armies of War Troglodytes; while the Trogs weren't doing anything they hung out in my meeting area as a gigantic troglodyte ball and rapidly became ledgendary socialites with stats to match.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on March 30, 2010, 08:56:48 pm

Quote from: James.Denholm on March 29, 2010, 11:46:26 pm

Solution - Elven women can no longer speak.

Women not being able to speak would solve more than just the milking issue.
ZING!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stormbringer951 on April 02, 2010, 12:33:28 pm

Embarking on a 1x1 nanofortress on the beach screwed over the tidal system for me, which resulted paradoxically in a metric ton of beached merpeople.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Dariush on May 04, 2010, 01:36:19 am

So the listed tactics still apply for 31.x? I mean, is it still possible to get mermens' bones through butchering?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on May 04, 2010, 08:31:09 am

Quote from: Dariush on May 04, 2010, 01:36:19 am

So the listed tactics still apply for 31.x? I mean, is it still possible to get mermens' bones through butchering?

It does not seem to be possible in 31.03.  When animals rot in 31.03, they leave skeletons behind, which then need to be butchered to be made into useable bones.  Mermaid skeletons can't be butchered.  This is probably a bug, possibly related to how remains never rot away completely, so it may be fixed in the future.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Goron on May 04, 2010, 09:36:48 am

Jeeze, I read the subject line and expected this thread to be about heroin...

...hmm... *gets an idea about modding certain 'poisons' into game*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: ManaUser on May 04, 2010, 11:41:22 am

Quote from: Sphalerite on May 04, 2010, 08:31:09 am

Quote from: Dariush on May 04, 2010, 01:36:19 am

So the listed tactics still apply for 31.x? I mean, is it still possible to get mermens' bones through butchering?

It does not seem to be possible in 31.03.  When animals rot in 31.03, they leave skeletons behind, which then need to be butchered to be made into useable bones.  Mermaid skeletons can't be butchered.  This is probably a bug, possibly related to how remains never rot away completely, so it may be fixed in the future.

But worse than that, based on the raws, it appears their bones are no longer unusually valuable.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: kopout on May 04, 2010, 11:55:03 am

Unicorn bones on the other hand are still absurdly valuable. The butchering thing is because you cant butcher sapeants, even dead ones

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: TheMirth on May 04, 2010, 11:57:13 am

"sapeant"? Is that a child treeant?   ::)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on May 04, 2010, 12:45:31 pm

On the plus side, in DF2010 unicorns can breed, at least in theory.  It may require you to have a Dungeon Master show up first, and that may be bugged.  Once you have him, a unicorn breeding industry is a lot easier to set up than mermaids, and you can butcher unicorns for the full range of animal products.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: dudemauler on May 04, 2010, 01:38:43 pm

Which makes me want to edit the raws to make them butcherable.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord Dakoth on May 04, 2010, 01:42:59 pm

Ehh, I think I'll keep making Mermaid-Death-Traps, even if just for nostalgia's sake.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Altaree on May 04, 2010, 02:45:14 pm

Has anyone actually gotten this to work or are we still doing theory crafting?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on May 04, 2010, 02:52:59 pm

Quote from: Altaree on May 04, 2010, 02:45:14 pm

Has anyone actually gotten this to work or are we still doing theory crafting?

I have a 40d fortress with half a dozen or so mermaids/mermen in a water-filled enclosure.  I haven't run it long enough since then for them to reproduce, or worked out a way to selectively air-drown the children (Cancels farm mermaids:  interrupted by DF2010).  My current DF2010 fortress has a small herd of unicorns in captivity, but they aren't reproducing as I don't have a dungeon master yet.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Grumman on May 05, 2010, 01:19:44 am

Good thing I wasn't planning on butchering them. Once I manage to catch a few, I'm going to make a half-submerged merfolk village where the dorfs can come and watch.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Macalano on July 29, 2010, 02:06:17 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_MhrAVQTA

Sorry, lol.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Lord Dakoth on August 02, 2010, 01:31:59 am

Le what?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Bronimin on August 19, 2010, 05:41:35 pm

-

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: fivex on September 14, 2010, 11:06:39 pm

Would it be feasible to farm sea serpents using similar methods to the ones mentioned here?
They have value x5 and produce the most stuff out of anything that is value x5

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on September 14, 2010, 11:10:56 pm

Quote from: fivex on September 14, 2010, 11:06:39 pm

Would it be feasible to farm sea serpents using similar methods to the ones mentioned here?
They have value x5 and produce the most stuff out of anything that is value x5

Aren't they incredibly rare and incapable of bearing kids? Other than that it should work.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Internet Kraken on September 14, 2010, 11:13:39 pm

Quote from: darkflagrance on September 14, 2010, 11:10:56 pm

Quote from: fivex on September 14, 2010, 11:06:39 pm

Would it be feasible to farm sea serpents using similar methods to the ones mentioned here?
They have value x5 and produce the most stuff out of anything that is value x5

Aren't they incredibly rare and incapable of bearing kids? Other than that it should work.

There's nothing in the raws, at least that I can see, that would suggest that sea serpents are infertile. Also they don't seem to rare, as  I've seen several zombie sea serpents in my current fort.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Zidane on September 14, 2010, 11:30:44 pm

With enough pumps, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Bohandas on January 19, 2011, 10:04:01 pm

Quote from: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 07:54:25 am

Quote from: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Well she turns into sea foam in the original, so it would be difficult to butcher her corpse, being as it's sea foam.

Although i'm sure some Dwarf somewhere will work out a way.

Well, to a dwarf it would be obvious. You butcher her into an alcohol additive rather than into a meat product plus bones...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on January 20, 2011, 01:49:14 am

Quote from: Bohandas on January 19, 2011, 10:04:01 pm

Quote from: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 07:54:25 am

Quote from: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Well she turns into sea foam in the original, so it would be difficult to butcher her corpse, being as it's sea foam.

Although i'm sure some Dwarf somewhere will work out a way.

Well, to a dwarf it would be obvious. You butcher her into an alcohol additive rather than into a meat product plus bones...

This is the second thread that you've necro'd today.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Xenos on January 20, 2011, 03:16:57 am

Quote from: Urist Da Vinci on January 20, 2011, 01:49:14 am

Quote from: Bohandas on January 19, 2011, 10:04:01 pm

Quote from: Neruz on September 03, 2009, 07:54:25 am

Quote from: Evil One on September 03, 2009, 07:06:38 am

Quote from: Traiden on November 04, 2008, 11:32:43 pm

Not to shatter the dream or anything... The original "Little Mermaid" story... She dies in it, so DF is bringing it back to its roots.

I admit it's been a while since I even heard of that story but I somehow missed the part where after she's dead she gets butchered by a load of Dwarves who want to sell her bones as they're more valuable then Unicorn bones.
Must be in a new version. :)

Well she turns into sea foam in the original, so it would be difficult to butcher her corpse, being as it's sea foam.

Although i'm sure some Dwarf somewhere will work out a way.

Well, to a dwarf it would be obvious. You butcher her into an alcohol additive rather than into a meat product plus bones...

This is the second thread that you've necro'd today.

Well, at least they have both been of the awesome thread type.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: EmperorNuthulu on January 20, 2011, 03:58:00 pm

Oddly enough I was thinking of trapping whales in a similar way, since they seem to generate a ridiculous amount of meat. Oh sure plump helmets are easy to grow, but when the caravan arc is in you could destroy the food economy with whale meat.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Sphalerite on January 20, 2011, 04:34:13 pm

I have a working sea serpent farm in a fortress at the moment.  The same techniques I'm using could be used for mermaids, except that in the current version mermaids don't breed, can't be butchered, and aren't worth anything anyway.

In the process of catching the sea serpents I also caught dozens of whales, sharks, skates, tuna, sea lamprey, and many other fish.  Unfortunately, none of them breed, and slaughtering them all, processing the meat, and unloading it on traders is going to take decades.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: darkflagrance on January 20, 2011, 04:43:47 pm

Quote from: Sphalerite on January 20, 2011, 04:34:13 pm

I have a working sea serpent farm in a fortress at the moment.  The same techniques I'm using could be used for mermaids, except that in the current version mermaids don't breed, can't be butchered, and aren't worth anything anyway.

Who wants to bet that this was changed from 40d to the current version due to the existence of this very thread?  :o

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Patchy on January 20, 2011, 09:32:20 pm

Quote from: darkflagrance on January 20, 2011, 04:43:47 pm

Quote from: Sphalerite on January 20, 2011, 04:34:13 pm

I have a working sea serpent farm in a fortress at the moment.  The same techniques I'm using could be used for mermaids, except that in the current version mermaids don't breed, can't be butchered, and aren't worth anything anyway.

Who wants to bet that this was changed from 40d to the current version due to the existence of this very thread?  :o

And how many people have undone the changes to the merfolk raws and restored them to their 40d selves? I don't play ocean embarks often, and good aligned ones even less, but if I do play an embark where the merfolk spawn I want the option to farm them if I so choose.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: expwnent on January 20, 2011, 10:37:34 pm

Quote from: Sphalerite on January 20, 2011, 04:34:13 pm

I have a working sea serpent farm in a fortress at the moment.  The same techniques I'm using could be used for mermaids, except that in the current version mermaids don't breed, can't be butchered, and aren't worth anything anyway.

In the process of catching the sea serpents I also caught dozens of whales, sharks, skates, tuna, sea lamprey, and many other fish.  Unfortunately, none of them breed, and slaughtering them all, processing the meat, and unloading it on traders is going to take decades.

What's your setup?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Tastysaurus Rex on January 20, 2011, 10:42:12 pm

I keep (to the best of my abilities) killing everything that turns up on my waterfront in the hopes that I'll get a ton of whales at my site, at which point I plan to drain my ocean into the local aquafier and drag the suffocating seafood back to my place for cookin'. Is there any reason why this would epically fail?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: expwnent on January 20, 2011, 11:10:12 pm

Water only pushes things when it's sliding to the side. So unless your drainage pit is right below the whales, they might just air-drown.

Unless, of course, you carve your ocean into an upside-down pyramid to funnel them in. Difficult, but this is Dwarf Fortress.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MC Dirty on January 21, 2011, 04:23:14 pm

Quote from: expwnent on January 20, 2011, 11:10:12 pm

Water only pushes things when it's sliding to the side. So unless your drainage pit is right below the whales, they might just air-drown.

Which is still awesome, so w00t for that!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Urist McBusDriver on February 18, 2011, 04:01:37 pm

Last post less than a month ago == not necro, right?

This is completely relevant:

http://www.amazingsuperpowers.com/2009/05/bones/

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Girlinhat on February 18, 2011, 04:03:34 pm

It doesn't matter how old this thread is.  It will always live and will never necro.  DO bring it back into the light of the first page!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Angel Of Death on May 04, 2011, 06:07:30 am

Is it even possible to farm mermaids anymore?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 04, 2011, 06:32:54 am

Quote from: Angel Of Death on May 04, 2011, 06:07:30 am

Is it even possible to farm mermaids anymore?

Not really. Corpses decompose into skeletons, which need to be butchered; only tameable and/or tame creatures breed; and mermaid bones are worth the same as cow bones.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Angel Of Death on May 04, 2011, 06:46:45 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

WHYYYY!?

WHYYYYYY!?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: antymattar on May 04, 2011, 06:56:22 am

WHYYY!!!!!?????

Can we still catch them in cages?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: nanomage on May 04, 2011, 07:01:38 am

You can catch them in cages as any other fish i think.
I also believe with some cunning placement you can even get them thrown from high cliffs so they yield bones when they rot.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: antymattar on May 04, 2011, 07:43:41 am

well, at least I can have a bunch of merpeople arround.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: lanceleoghauni on May 04, 2011, 12:13:29 pm

Pretty sure glass terraria are better.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Necro910 on May 04, 2011, 12:19:48 pm

You can put in the value modifier so that it's worth its old value again. Then we can restart our meat factories! BWAHHAHAHAH


And yes, you need to drop them off a cliff in order to harvest their bones. That shouldn't be a problem for us dwarves :))

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: zarokima on May 04, 2011, 02:36:45 pm

Quote from: shackleton on October 09, 2008, 11:04:19 am

I have to admit, I'm impressed by the downright dwarfyness of this entire plan. I've always imagined that animals migrate along a rough path (North to South, etc) but it's a hard thing to prove. Try watching the way they move.

In my last fort, I had regular swarms of giant badgers coming from the southeast, over to the center, then back over and up to the northeast. So think you may be correct about some rough pathing preference.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Necro910 on May 04, 2011, 02:39:17 pm

Quote from: zarokima on May 04, 2011, 02:36:45 pm

Quote from: shackleton on October 09, 2008, 11:04:19 am

I have to admit, I'm impressed by the downright dwarfyness of this entire plan. I've always imagined that animals migrate along a rough path (North to South, etc) but it's a hard thing to prove. Try watching the way they move.

In my last fort, I had regular swarms of giant badgers coming from the southeast, over to the center, then back over and up to the northeast. So think you may be correct about some rough pathing preference.

Yup. I've seen it too in a past fort. The camels would go from north to south east, or south east to north.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 23, 2011, 10:08:32 pm

this thread must surive to honor all dwarves and so i can find for mermaid farming techniques and how drain the ocean to farm whales
Ow do beached walls produce bones when the rot?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Number4 on July 23, 2011, 10:17:24 pm

I demand we stick this thread to the first page.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: CriticallyAshamed on July 24, 2011, 03:13:25 am

If we were to sticky all the legendary acts of Dwarfiness(and/or Genocide) then the whole first page would be stickies.

Any idea on whether we'll ever be able to butcher sentinents again?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Demonic Spoon on July 24, 2011, 04:05:46 am

You should be able to if you mod the ethics of dwarves in the raws.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Number4 on July 24, 2011, 06:54:09 am

Quote from: CriticallyAshamed on July 24, 2011, 03:13:25 am

If we were to sticky all the legendary acts of Dwarfiness(and/or Genocide) then the whole first page would be stickies.

I fail to see the problem.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 24, 2011, 08:22:27 am

toady could make a forum board of all stickies

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 24, 2011, 08:24:22 am

I understand how much all you guys love dead mermaids, but I think we can put the thread down now.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Shootandrun on July 24, 2011, 08:27:50 am

Why don't you necro the sea serpent thread? This one is still useful, at least...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Girlinhat on July 24, 2011, 08:29:47 am

Quote from: JoshuaFH on July 24, 2011, 08:24:22 am

I understand how much all you guys love dead mermaids, but I think we can put the thread down now.

This isn't about mermaids.  It's not that at all...  It really never has been.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 24, 2011, 08:34:14 am

I just looked to see if they had plans for draining the ocean i remeber something like that in this thread also do beached whale rot to bones?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: accoro on July 24, 2011, 09:18:13 am

Quote from: stabbymcstabstab on July 24, 2011, 08:34:14 am

I just looked to see if they had plans for draining the ocean i remeber something like that in this thread also do beached whale rot to bones?

I remember reading quite recently, someone who drained his ocean repeatedly into an aquifer. Something about walrus farming. Entirely do-able, but will kill your fps when the ocean "respawns"

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 24, 2011, 12:08:15 pm

i dont mind the fps drop i remove the fps cap and had 300 fps so i should be ok but who cars ill put brides to stopm the water and make one of the biggest drowning traps ever i just need to get to the magma sea to make it re useable

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: lastofthelight on August 08, 2011, 09:34:24 pm

It saddens me that farming, breeding, etc. mermaids has no function anymore. At the very least you should be able to capture them for... .... recreational...purposes!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 08, 2011, 09:56:47 pm

Ah, but you can! You just have to remember that dwarven recreation involves murder.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 08, 2011, 10:02:42 pm

or just doing something stupid it works for me. :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: isma on January 28, 2014, 04:01:26 pm

Sorry for the necro but this thread deserves to see the light of day.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: flame99 on January 28, 2014, 10:26:42 pm

It really doesn't. Yes, it's a testament to the best and worst of DF and Bay12, but this thread got Toady to change the game specifically for it. It happened for a reason. For the most part, isma, don't necro anything unless you can contribute to the conversation. Content-less bumps don't further the thread, and clutter up the boards with old threads.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: zubb2 on January 29, 2014, 11:24:23 am

Just what did Toady change about the game?
I missed it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Di on January 29, 2014, 01:08:21 pm

Quote from: zubb2 on January 29, 2014, 11:24:23 am

Just what did Toady change about the game?
I missed it.

Well, people like to say that after this thread the creatures that [CAN_LEARN] were made unbutcherable (with dwarven ethics) and mermaid raws no longer had value multiplier. (Elves, gobbos and humans could butchered back then as well, and in a fact dwarves did that automatically. Actually goblin bone crafts comprised the majority of non-rock trade goods. It's just that their value was rather low, so they never got that much attention.)

However the next version after this thread was huge release of .31.01 which was almost new game. The entire way of how creatures were represented in game has changed and the most of the tags responsible for mermaid phenomena became obsolete.
So, to me it seems that mermaid price was lost\revised in the process of complete re-factoring of raws. And the inability of butchering sentients was just a result of development of entity system. Unless someone has a quote of Toady on the mermaid business.

But nevertheless, mermaids don't have anything interesting about them anymore, the most effective means  of capturing oceanic creatures were developed in whale-hunting thread and new morality horizons were reached since then in other well-known threads. Thus this thread has now only a historical value and belongs to the archive aka pages that aren't first. It's not like they get erased around here.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:20:04 pm

Quote from: flameboy99 on January 28, 2014, 10:26:42 pm

this thread got Toady to change the game specifically for it.

Yeah I'm gonna need a source from Toady substantiating this wild ass claim before I believe it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: flame99 on January 29, 2014, 02:32:47 pm

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:20:04 pm

Quote from: flameboy99 on January 28, 2014, 10:26:42 pm

this thread got Toady to change the game specifically for it.

Yeah I'm gonna need a source from Toady substantiating this wild ass claim before I believe it.

I haven't seen a direct quote from Toady, but:

Quote from: Magmawiki

This is a moot point, however, as merpeople are intelligent enough that dwarves refuse to butcher them, making merperson genocide in the name of profit absolutely useless; although, nothing is stopping you from committing merperson genocide just for the fun of it. This happened because the game's creator read the thread and was sufficiently scared by the prospect.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mross on April 26, 2014, 02:36:28 am

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: slothen on April 27, 2014, 12:31:02 pm

Quote from: mross on April 26, 2014, 02:36:28 am

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

They decompose into an unbutcherable skeleton.  To get bones (of anything that leaves a skeleton) without butchering, you need to kill them in a way that guarantees dismemberment.  Then only the body will become a skeleton while the limbs and head decompose into a skull and indivdual "bones."  This is how you can get the occasional goblin bone crafts/bolts.

And yeah, if you want to do this, add value multipliers in the raws.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2014, 10:22:32 am

Quote from: mross on April 26, 2014, 02:36:28 am

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: expwnent on April 29, 2014, 03:29:39 pm

I agree not all mods are the same, but a large part of the novelty of the original idea was that it was possible in completely unmodded DF.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: MDFification on April 29, 2014, 10:06:18 pm

Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2014, 10:22:32 am

Quote from: mross on April 26, 2014, 02:36:28 am

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

My internal modder is telling me 'because it would require a regen of the world for changes in entity.txt to take effect' but my everything else is saying 'stick with vanilla'.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2014, 02:32:36 pm

Quote from: MDFification on April 29, 2014, 10:06:18 pm

Quote from: forsaken1111 on April 28, 2014, 10:22:32 am

Quote from: mross on April 26, 2014, 02:36:28 am

Quote from: forsaken1111 on January 29, 2014, 02:40:09 pm

That is just conjecture from someone who updated the wiki page.

Can't you just set their bodies out until they rot and use the bones anyway? Either way it should just be a quick edit of the ethics file and back to merbutchery.

In that case, why not just alter all creatures' raw entries to have arbitrarily high value value modifiers?

In my mind, changing the civ's ethics to allow something which should be possible is different from artificially inflating the value of the resulting good, but sure if you want to do that go for it.

My internal modder is telling me 'because it would require a regen of the world for changes in entity.txt to take effect' but my everything else is saying 'stick with vanilla'.

but... but... minced goblin cakes and unicorn steaks!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mross on May 07, 2019, 04:35:33 pm

What was the point of farming mermaids in the first place? Expensive bones? So what, you can make a 10x10 plot of quarry bushes and have infinite wealth forever with no effort. People really have to LARP this hard to convince themselves the game is challenging or interesting?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Dunamisdeos on May 07, 2019, 08:35:36 pm

Probably because it's extravagantly boring to deliberately build a fantasy universe where cooked ferns are the predominant source of wealth equality.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on May 08, 2019, 12:40:33 am

Quote from: mross on May 07, 2019, 04:35:33 pm

What was the point of farming mermaids in the first place? Expensive bones? So what, you can make a 10x10 plot of quarry bushes and have infinite wealth forever with no effort. People really have to LARP this hard to convince themselves the game is challenging or interesting?

Money was not the reason, it was an excuse. People farmed mermaids because they could.

Besides, the quarry bush roast and trap component exploits were only popularized after DF2010 came out, I think. They were somehow linked to the booze roast exploit, that much I remember: they appeared either when it became well-known, or when it became impossible due to early-DF2010 bugs. They weren't all that popular around the time this thread was started.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Craftsdwarf boi on May 16, 2019, 05:14:56 am

A certain human entity:Dwarf fortress is art!
Community(dwarves):*Constructs mermaid concentration camps so that one could harvest their bones*

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on May 16, 2019, 10:49:50 pm

Quote from: Craftsdwarf boi on May 16, 2019, 05:14:56 am

A certain human entity:Dwarf fortress is art!
Community(dwarves):*Constructs mermaid concentration camps so that one could harvest their bones*

Art demands sactifices.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Craftsdwarf boi on May 17, 2019, 06:41:23 am

Did you mean !!FUN!! or !!SCIENCE!!?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: bwbill on April 21, 2021, 11:04:25 pm

So, it's been more-or-less proven conclusively earlier in this thread that it can't be necro'd. A new post would be EWWW. This is the topic. Chasing the elusive Mermaid.

But.....what if I wanted to use dfhack's make-citizen to enlist mermaids as underwater citizens? Could I build a fort with all they need and then flood it for them to live in? Would they use submerged workshops? Would anything work, for that matter? Has this been tried? Are there other aquatic or amphibeous creatures or animal people that could work, if this would work?

EDIT: Also, apparently (!) some dwarves like mermen for their wangly danglers, but I can assure you that this is misguided, as I have it first hand that they spawn like fish. That, or she was just brushing me off that fateful day at the coast...I've still gone out and chummed for her now and then, just in case.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on May 11, 2021, 12:54:06 am

I think the big issue with underwater forts, is that labor breaks, because tasks are interrupted when there is too much water in the way--it breaks pathing.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mohreb el Yasim on July 12, 2021, 10:55:17 am

Yep for the moment, aquatic, amphibious and flying fortresses don't work well. (the patching and job possibility is hard code tailored for terrestrial life)
Even some other tags end up funky :
Egglaying, no sleep, no emotion creatures each have they quirks as a civilization...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: FantasticDorf on July 12, 2021, 11:29:29 am

Amphibious nations with nautical flavor* work fine, if you look over at Naga's featured in Mephs masterwork mod for example, a sea and lake-faring race that isn't prohibited by land but is nigh on impossible to actually conquer because armies can't path to them without being aquatic themselves or capable of flight is a classic blueprint to continually harass player forts without just getting squashed by potentially much stronger opponents.

Quote from: expanding upon *

Reactions and materials are sea themed, some of the creatures for accessibility are also [AMPHIBIOUS] as to be mounts for them to bring along and they harvest central sea species and animals, but by no means aren't terrestrial. Except maybe the boon that you can flood a room without causing many ill effects such as fighting disadvantaged foes until they can get onto dry land if they arent killed by crushing water pressure impact, vampires and were's are similar.

Naga settlements are typically buildings poking over the top of the oceans surface, only maybe dwarven detailed caves might be actually submerged in a way that is water-tight, or the half sunk depths of a dark-tower. There are no caves in the ocean for oceanic megabeasts or naga's to inhabit in a kobold-like fashion.

Vengeful merpeople could well be a thing with some user input, and a potentially powerful unreachable enemy least until Toady adds flying and swimming dwarf mounts or boats to enable our raids to travel to new lands and conquer exotic peoples.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: DiscoUrist on July 28, 2021, 09:00:27 pm

I (sorta) got it to work. As an adventurer necromancer, if you can get your hands on a mermaid corpse and take it back to a fort, you can resurrect it as an intelligent undead. You can then retire the adventurer and unretire the fort.

The mermaid will show up as a "current resident" that is not aggressive. Build a tanner or butcher shop next to her, and wall/lock her in. Demolish all other tanner/butcher workshops. Unleash misery upon your dwarves, and trigger a fell mood.

After the dwarf claims the workshop, lock him in there with the mermaid. He'll use her to make some type of artifact. I haven't gotten a weapon, but I'm pretty sure it's possible.

A similar method allows you to get artifacts that are otherwise impossible, using certain conquered sites or compelled creatures. Some things I've seen so are a morion helm, vomit leggings, a vomit figurine, a vomit gauntlet. Lots of things made of vomit, for reasons. I *think* you might be able to make things out of water, snow, and fire, but I can't find any appropriate creatures.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: FantasticDorf on July 30, 2021, 11:18:52 am

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Im of the opposite persuasion, if players continue to push the envelope, it'll show that Toady will more than likely have to find another way to make players disengage from that kind of activity (keeping in mind the system that was meant to make it togglable is actually bugged to never turn on without DFhack script to apply the boolean properly)

Toady could then put in seperate countermeasures, like killing the sacred animals/peoples relevant to cults of the sea to bring diplomatic reprecussions to your fortress, and draw ire from the god of the sea themselves. A big siege of possessed water sphere animals coming out of the wilderness to attack your fortress, probably crabs & angelic warriors of that god riding upon them or titans being driven into the path of your fort guided by divine power may be enough to try and preserve the sanctity of the merpeople.

It all couples in with the way that toady is already thinking about how to make sieges more devious for the army arc, and some development  goals about sacred animals in a generic context.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Wait, DF got put on some no-no lists? I haven't been to the forums since early 2020, what did I miss?

(Also, you've got a quote from one of my Adventure Mode test reports back in 2019. Nice!
I remember that test; it was shocking how quickly a quadriplegic toothless vampire managed to disable my character. There were maybe two, three hundred wrestling moves before one of its pushes broke a bone.)

Quote from: FantasticDorf on July 30, 2021, 11:18:52 am

A big siege of possessed water sphere animals coming out of the wilderness to attack your fortress, probably crabs & angelic warriors of that god riding upon them or titans being driven into the path of your fort guided by divine power may be enough to try and preserve the sanctity of the merpeople.

Hold on. Are you saying that the biggest, coolest, deadliest siege you could get is going to deter DF players from killing mermaid babies?

The same DF players who deliberately place their fortress next to a necromancer tower, simply because regular goblin attacks aren't exciting enough?

The same DF players who dig their way into the Circus just because an army of clowns is the only force great enough to defeat them?

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: FantasticDorf on July 30, 2021, 04:03:41 pm

Quote from: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: FantasticDorf on July 30, 2021, 11:18:52 am

A big siege of possessed water sphere animals coming out of the wilderness to attack your fortress, probably crabs & angelic warriors of that god riding upon them or titans being driven into the path of your fort guided by divine power may be enough to try and preserve the sanctity of the merpeople.

Hold on. Are you saying that the biggest, coolest, deadliest siege you could get is going to deter DF players from killing mermaid babies?

The same DF players who deliberately place their fortress next to a necromancer tower, simply because regular goblin attacks aren't exciting enough?

The same DF players who dig their way into the Circus just because an army of clowns is the only force great enough to defeat them?

Well, probably no less than trying to prohibit someone making fell mooded gauntlets entirely out of vomit using a deliberately shut-away aspect of the game that lends to capitalistic genocide.

But point taken.  :P

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Moeteru on July 30, 2021, 04:23:04 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Where can I find these no-no lists? I need to peruse them for... reasons.

In all seriousness, it's this sort of thing that makes DF great. If you kid-proof a sandbox game so that anything morally objectionable is prohibited then it's not really a sandbox any more. The whole point of a game like DF is to allow the player maximum freedom to create their own stories within a fictional universe.
You might have noticed that nobody repeats stories about that time someone built a nice, peaceful fortress which lived in harmony with its neighbours and produced lots of woollen crafts to sell to the elves. The famous stories are things like boatmurdered where they tried to flood the world with magma and eventually all the dwarves were slaughtered by ferocious elephants.

Coming up with over-engineered methods to farm mermaids for their valuable bones is exactly the sort of emergent gameplay which DF should encourage. The only real issue is that the NPCs don't react appropriately to the atrocities committed by the player. If you want to butcher good-aligned sapients on an industrial scale you should have to carefully select citizens with low empathy and still expect half your dwarves to complain or even openly rebel against you. On the other hand, if you're playing as goblins then farming mermaids seems like a very reasonable course of action.

There are also larger issues about the handling of ethics. It's more than a little silly that dwarves will happily buy and sell dwarf bone amulets or use a pick made from the corpse of their friend, but draw the line at butchering an enemy troll corpse to feed their starving family. Mermaid bones are the sort of thing which should fetch a very high price from an unscrupulous trader but would cause grave offence if you try to sell them to a trader with high empathy. Treating them exactly the same as cow bones is wrong from both perspectives. Hopefully when the world economy gets implemented properly there will be more thought given to things like repugnant transactions and black markets.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on July 31, 2021, 02:51:03 am

Quote from: Moeteru on July 30, 2021, 04:23:04 pm

If you kid-proof a sandbox game so that anything morally objectionable is prohibited then it's not really a sandbox any more.

Also, it only makes atrocities more challenging, and therefore more interesting, to commit.
Try as you might, you can't stop a sufficiently determined person from doing terrible things to virtual people.
Case in point: Sims.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Laterigrade on August 02, 2021, 06:24:02 pm

Quote from: HmH on July 31, 2021, 02:51:03 am

Quote from: Moeteru on July 30, 2021, 04:23:04 pm

If you kid-proof a sandbox game so that anything morally objectionable is prohibited then it's not really a sandbox any more.

Also, it only makes atrocities more challenging, and therefore more interesting, to commit.
Try as you might, you can't stop a sufficiently determined person from doing terrible things to virtual people.
Case in point: Sims.

I’m pretty sure Sims was designed for that kind of use, no mattter what the devs say contrary.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: George_Chickens on August 03, 2021, 12:11:00 am

Quote from: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Wait, DF got put on some no-no lists? I haven't been to the forums since early 2020, what did I miss?

It didn't. The reaction to the mermaid farms has been exaggerated through 10 years of Chinese Whispers. In a few years time, people will probably claim that it's why Toady wasn't eligible for his brother's medical insurance.

Title: Re: Chaining the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mobbstar on August 03, 2021, 04:24:59 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 03, 2021, 12:11:00 am

it's why Toady wasn't eligible for his brother's medical insurance.

Oh wow, the more you know!  :o

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on August 03, 2021, 10:57:16 am

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 03, 2021, 12:11:00 am

Quote from: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Wait, DF got put on some no-no lists? I haven't been to the forums since early 2020, what did I miss?

It didn't. The reaction to the mermaid farms has been exaggerated through 10 years of Chinese Whispers. In a few years time, people will probably claim that it's why Toady wasn't eligible for his brother's medical insurance.

No, clearly [EXPUNGED] is to blame for the insurance mishap.
Toady simply does not delete huge active threads, no matter how vile they are. Not without an exceptionally good reason.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Maloy on August 03, 2021, 04:12:40 pm

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 03, 2021, 12:11:00 am

Quote from: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Wait, DF got put on some no-no lists? I haven't been to the forums since early 2020, what did I miss?

It didn't. The reaction to the mermaid farms has been exaggerated through 10 years of Chinese Whispers. In a few years time, people will probably claim that it's why Toady wasn't eligible for his brother's medical insurance.

Really?

I heard that EA, Activision, and ubisoft were all going to write billion dollar checks to toady to fund dwarf fortress, no strings attached, but the whole thing got cancelled because of the mermaid fiasco

I can't believe that isn't actually true

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Dunamisdeos on August 03, 2021, 05:03:18 pm

Frankly Toady got the good end of that deal if they cancelled XD

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on August 03, 2021, 06:49:33 pm

Something tells me Toady probably would've refused anyway. Toady entering a partnership with an indie game developer for a Steam release is one thing, but multi-billion-dollar corporations that would probably want tons of input into how Toady proceeds with future development of DF? Yeah, hard pass!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Laterigrade on August 03, 2021, 11:10:05 pm

Quote from: George_Chickens on August 03, 2021, 12:11:00 am

Quote from: HmH on July 30, 2021, 01:53:36 pm

Quote from: Laterigrade on July 29, 2021, 08:15:13 pm

This is what got DF put on the no-no lists, don’t start this back up again.

Wait, DF got put on some no-no lists? I haven't been to the forums since early 2020, what did I miss?

It didn't. The reaction to the mermaid farms has been exaggerated through 10 years of Chinese Whispers. In a few years time, people will probably claim that it's why Toady wasn't eligible for his brother's medical insurance.

Yeah, no, I was joking. It definitely got put on some no-no lists in certain people’s minds, some of my friends who would definitely play it and love it otherwise, come on you stupid bastards you’ll like it just try it, included, but there were no real no-no lists.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on August 04, 2021, 11:24:56 am

Quote from: Laterigrade on August 03, 2021, 11:10:05 pm

Yeah, no, I was joking. It definitely got put on some no-no lists in certain people’s minds, some of my friends who would definitely play it and love it otherwise, come on you stupid bastards you’ll like it just try it, included, but there were no real no-no lists.

You mean there are people who would have loved to play a game with torture-happy goblins, cannibal elves, detailed dismemberment physics, ASCII graphics and a vertical learning curve...
but B12's penchant for unethical engineering was what turned them off?

I think that is exactly the kind of players Dwarf Fortress does not need.
People who let moral qualms stop them from having fun would be needlessly toxic around here.

Can you imagine the kind of stink they'd raise about the Dwarven Child Care?
And the old (ca.2013) attempts to fireproof dwarves through gradual desensitization to magma?

---

Granted, I'm an old player; I started playing DF in 2009 and kicked the habit in 2014, only playing sporadically since then.
So maybe I've missed some changes; maybe the Bay 12 community has grown softer and less psychopathic over the years.
But from what I've seen of the forums in early 2010s, the collective monstrousness of Dwarf Fortress players is what kept this forum so polite, chill and devoid of toxicity.

Any user's first contribution to this forum's R&D projects - or, failing that, the first fort that survives at least five years - functions as a rite of passage.
Success in those ventures requires you do things that, were you not a DF player, you would not have even contemplated.

A rite of passage, in turn, creates a tribal identity: a way to see Bay 12 as a unique collection of people, separate from those who merely pretend to be villains.
All of us have gazed into the abyss, and saw the abyss wink back.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Salmeuk on August 04, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

I've seen things, specifically expunged, that really contradict this statement:

Quote

A rite of passage, in turn, creates a tribal identity: a way to see Bay 12 as a unique collection of people, separate from those who merely pretend to be villains.

or rather, there is a reason certain organic functions are not present in the game, and in truth any game that attempts realistic simulation of those functions is likely to attract the worst kind of person (see F.A.T.A.L the 'roleplaying' system). DF has always had a sort of ironic approach to the gore-y reality of the flesh bots we call dwarves, and that removed perspective allows for great hilarity, but that unsaid line has been crossed before, and is sort of the 'dark timeline'. To all those who cultivate the positivity of Bay12, thanks for not being psychopathic in a bad way...

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on August 04, 2021, 04:20:11 pm

I see what you are saying. I agree: even villains have standards.
[EXPUNGED] is one example of such standards being violated. The Serial Killer Roguelike is another.

In both cases, the evil that crosses the line isn't grand enough to inspire awe: it is is disgusting and petty.
It sinks from the lofty heights of dramatic villainy, the sort that makes characters into what Alan Rickman had called "interesting people", to the cowardly banality of real-world evil.

I'm pretty sure that, having already tasted the grandiose evil of a mermaid slaughterhouse in a controlled environment where the only abuses are the ones that were intended, few people from B12 will find porch-pirating, bullying or government corruption to be the interesting kind of evil.

Of course, there are always outliers. They don't stay on the forums for long.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on August 04, 2021, 05:09:12 pm

Oh god, don't get me started on F.A.T.A.L.

But anyway I agree on the point of difference between abstracted and grandiose "fantasy evil" and the sort of petty sociopathy that usually defines evil in our mundane world. A good example from fantasy literature would be why the average person finds Joffrey Baratheon so much more viscerally despicable and frightening as a character than Sauron, despite the fact that the latter has so much more power to make his world at large a worse place to live and has attempted wholesale genocide on several occasions.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Nyeogmi on August 05, 2021, 07:07:50 pm

this is just me but i think that violence in video games is usually about generating feelings of agency and power. people in the modern world don't have that but want that. that's why they kill a million people in gtav or rip the eyelids off a goblin

on the other hand, it's really, really hard for me to understand the tendencies that make someone simulate institutional violence. genocide aside, i don't understand the kind of person who looks at a cop or a prison guard and thinks "yeah, i want to be that guy!"

i feel like the pages of nervous laughter in this thread come from everybody feeling like something funny was supposed to happen once they made mermaid auschwitz, but then they finished it and nothing did.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Moeteru on August 05, 2021, 08:04:50 pm

Quote from: Nyeogmi on August 05, 2021, 07:07:50 pm

this is just me but i think that violence in video games is usually about generating feelings of agency and power. people in the modern world don't have that but want that. that's why they kill a million people in gtav or rip the eyelids off a goblin

on the other hand, it's really, really hard for me to understand the tendencies that make someone simulate institutional violence. genocide aside, i don't understand the kind of person who looks at a cop or a prison guard and thinks "yeah, i want to be that guy!"

i feel like the pages of nervous laughter in this thread come from everybody feeling like something funny was supposed to happen once they made mermaid auschwitz, but then they finished it and nothing did.

Funnily enough I feel exactly the same as you do about real-world institutions and abuses of power. I'm definitely quite far to the anarchist end of the spectrum and I even go out of my way to avoid hurting things like wasps and slugs.
However, I also love this thread and the whole concept of mermaid farming in DF. Yes, it would be staggeringly unethical to do in real life, but DF isn't real life. I firmly believe that games can function as a healthy outlet for some of humanity's more primitive urges. There are countless things which would be unethical in real life but are very fun (or at least interesting) in fiction.

Personally what I like about the whole mermaid farming concept is the single-minded focus on efficiency contrasted with the absurd horror of it. It's a bit like the engineering equivalent of gallows humour or "A Modest Proposal". It wouldn't be half as entertaining if it was just a fish farm, not least because unethical fish farms already exist in abundance in the real world. Mermaids are almost stereotypically good and deserving of protection in fiction, a bit like puppies or orphans, so it makes for a very surprising (and therefore amusing) contrast. There are multiple books of bunny suicides (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Bunny_Suicides) which play on the same kind of dark humour.

Anyway, I think it would be a good idea for us to not let the thread get too far off topic.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: klefenz on August 05, 2021, 09:04:34 pm

Quote from: Salmeuk on August 04, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

there is a reason certain organic functions are not present in the game, and in truth any game that attempts realistic simulation of those functions is likely to attract the worst kind of person

Oxygen not Included has bodily functions and the associated fluids.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Mobbstar on August 06, 2021, 04:03:29 am

Quote from: klefenz on August 05, 2021, 09:04:34 pm

Quote from: Salmeuk on August 04, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

there is a reason certain organic functions are not present in the game, and in truth any game that attempts realistic simulation of those functions is likely to attract the worst kind of person

Oxygen not Included has bodily functions and the associated fluids.

ONI only has poop and a catch-all "contaminated water" as byproducts of using the outhouse. Reproduction is purely by cloning, and sweat and spit and tears are all modeled less realistically than DF does.

I believe the only reason Oxygen Not Included doesn't have its own Mermaid Bones is because there are no notably intelligent things other than the Dupes which are far more useful alive and able. And I don't recall if there's any kind of butchery either. The worst I've witnessed is locking animals in tiny "processing" rooms and machine-feeding them.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Laterigrade on August 12, 2021, 01:12:29 am

Quote from: klefenz on August 05, 2021, 09:04:34 pm

Quote from: Salmeuk on August 04, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

there is a reason certain organic functions are not present in the game, and in truth any game that attempts realistic simulation of those functions is likely to attract the worst kind of person

Oxygen not Included has bodily functions and the associated fluids.

but there’s no combat, so there’s much less opportunity for any of that to be “!!glorious!!”
(y’know, ‘feelings of agency and power’, like someone else said in this thread)

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Magmacube_tr on August 12, 2021, 12:48:43 pm

Guys, quick! This is the opportunity of lifetime! Lets leave our messages here so our names will be on this legendary thread. Post before posting here is considered Necro-ing once again!

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: mross on April 20, 2022, 06:30:45 pm

Quote from: Dunamisdeos on May 07, 2019, 08:35:36 pm

Probably because it's extravagantly boring to deliberately build a fantasy universe where cooked ferns are the predominant source of wealth equality.

Correction, the game is boring.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HMD Majesty on April 21, 2022, 01:15:59 am

Quote from: Mobbstar on August 06, 2021, 04:03:29 am

Quote from: klefenz on August 05, 2021, 09:04:34 pm

Quote from: Salmeuk on August 04, 2021, 01:57:19 pm

there is a reason certain organic functions are not present in the game, and in truth any game that attempts realistic simulation of those functions is likely to attract the worst kind of person

Oxygen not Included has bodily functions and the associated fluids.

ONI only has poop and a catch-all "contaminated water" as byproducts of using the outhouse. Reproduction is purely by cloning, and sweat and spit and tears are all modeled less realistically than DF does.

I believe the only reason Oxygen Not Included doesn't have its own Mermaid Bones is because there are no notably intelligent things other than the Dupes which are far more useful alive and able. And I don't recall if there's any kind of butchery either. The worst I've witnessed is locking animals in tiny "processing" rooms and machine-feeding them.

Dupes can be told to attack Critters.  However, if one is intending to ranch Critters for Food, a far better Method is set up a System to auto-drop Eggs into an Evolution Chamber, which is a fancy Name for a Pit full of Water so that the Critter will drown upon hatching.

Quite dwarfish, really.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Iklistkel on December 11, 2022, 05:06:58 pm

I just heard about this thread. So apparently Dwarf Fortress in the past was a more fun game than nowadays, am I right? I wonder. I mean, Tarn could get around the situation by making the game harder instead of removing things from the game - making merpeople more powerful or faster in the water, or even sing a kind of magic song that makes dwarves sleep, anyway, making the value given to bones equal to or less than the effort required to get them. Not removing such a value. (yeah I understand that I can change raws by myself, but many people who came to play this times, don't. I'm just thinking about it)

I think varying the relationship between them and the dwarves would be enough, for example: a random event where at some point in history an dwarf met a mermaid and they became close, so that particular dwarves civilization becomes friendly to mermaids and they don't conflict. Dwarves are creatures of the earth and mermaids from the bottom of the sea. different languages, deaths and all sorts of problems are more than expected, aren't they? Even with dwarves ethics included.

Anyway, I'm late but yet, I wonder.

I wonder... I think there are a lot more wonderful things and possibilities in the old versions that have been removed in the new versions. In my opinion, this wealth of content should be maintained.

* sorry about my bad english writing

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: LuuBluum on December 11, 2022, 05:10:13 pm

I think you're mistaken. The issue was that civilization ethics weren't yet implemented, and their implementation rendered what was going on in this thread, moot. The implementation wasn't done in regards to this thread. The value of their bones was reduced as well, sure, but that wasn't as significant as the ethics implementation that barred butchering sentients in the first place.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HMD Majesty on December 12, 2022, 01:01:37 am

It depends on your Playstyle.  If you want to make an Autogrinder for Bones so you have an endless stream of insanely high-Value Bone Crafts that Caravans struggle to carry away flooding your Fortress, then yes the unmodded Game is currently less fun.

If you want to revitalize a Dwarfen Kingdom, maybe even usher in the Age of Dwarfs, the Game has only gotten more fun.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: Iklistkel on December 14, 2022, 03:01:58 pm

Why not both? (rhetorical). Both is better.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HMD Majesty on December 17, 2022, 06:18:55 pm

Quote from: Iklistkel on December 14, 2022, 03:01:58 pm

Why not both? (rhetorical). Both is better.

It isn't very hard to generate enough Goods to buy out Caravans, just harder to set up.  Clothing is the easiest, particularly if you manage to grab a GCS, but if you pick a Site with Clay or Sand then all you need is to get Magma up to the desired Level, build the requisite Magma Furnaces, and then you can practically generate Value from thin Air.

Title: Re: Chasing the elusive Mermaid
Post by: HmH on December 17, 2022, 10:23:30 pm

Or you can just cheese it all the way and become an SSD manufacturer:
- find silver (or iron, whichever comes first),
- dig up silver,
- melt silver,
- make silver serrated discs (SSDs),
- sell silver serrated discs,
- repeat until the sieges' sizes are to your liking.