Post by: chooseusername on June 10, 2014, 03:55:39 pm
INSERT SCREENSHOT HERE
Useful Links
You can download the latest version from here: Bitbucket download page (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/downloads).
You can report bugs here: Bitbucket issues page (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issues?status=new&status=open).
Frequently Asked Questions
- Q. The game is unplayable, what do I do?
- A. Currently, only bug fixes are made in each new version. Go back to the preceding version from the download page.
- Q. Why does my numeric keypad not work?
- A. Toggle your numlock key. SDL2 does not care about your numeric keypad because it is designed for touch screen devices.
Post by: Robsoie on June 10, 2014, 04:07:47 pm
Anyways, a few links for those interested :
the online manual :
http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/man/Manual.html
the wiki :
http://incursion.wikidot.com/
Post by: Dutchling on June 10, 2014, 04:23:23 pm
I feel like I'm done, as deeper dungeon levels seem to be the same as dungeon lvl 1. What should I strife for now?
Post by: Frumple on June 10, 2014, 04:31:26 pm
There are changes in dungeon generation as you get deeper, though... some, anyway. There's a few rooms that won't generate above a certain depth. Vaults, troll/mindslayer lairs, stuff like that. And, of course, you encounter all sorts of new critters to get violently murdered by.
Post by: Mindmaker on June 10, 2014, 04:57:35 pm
As I stated in the previous thread, I'm level 3 now and don't die to random monsters anymore.From what I've seen pretty interesting vaults and artifacts await.
I feel like I'm done, as deeper dungeon levels seem to be the same as dungeon lvl 1. What should I strife for now?
Post by: chooseusername on June 10, 2014, 08:11:30 pm
Basically, someone could watch the video, play it, and see what the game has to offer, but also get dropped hints about all the little things that a player who is in the groove does.
Post by: Hamel on June 11, 2014, 02:17:47 am
http://www.filedropper.com/lisva
It triggers after a little while, just waiting should work.
This is the farthest I've ever got before crashing. So there's progress!
Post by: Zireael on June 11, 2014, 08:06:25 am
Post by: Mindmaker on June 11, 2014, 06:58:04 pm
Charge with their lance and keep stabbing with the lance?
Charge with their lance, switch to off weapons+shield and then confinue fighting?
Charge with their lance, back away and charge again?
Post by: Frumple on June 11, 2014, 07:20:38 pm
If you're going for weapon swapping shenanigans, I'd probably aim for quick draw or whatever it is, to keep from being murdered while swapping. Or just keep stabbing with the lance. You can back away and re-charge (or back away for the weapon swap), but that involves potential attacks of opportunity and whatnot. Something to be careful with.
... but ultimately the answer to your question is "Yes." more than anything. You can do any of those and manage decently well, it's just a matter of how you work it. Just pay extremely careful attention to what whatever you're charging is wielding. Charging something with a reach weapon is a good way to get absolutely demolished, iirc.
Post by: ICBM pilot on June 11, 2014, 10:23:19 pm
Post by: Duuvian on June 11, 2014, 11:17:40 pm
I don't know much about the game itself. I spent a long time reading all the background stuff when making a new character, a ranger that used mounted combat because I haven't seen that in a roguelike before. Then I started and went out on foot, found a creature in some water that ignored me until I threw something at it. I think it was a woodchuck if I recall correctly. Somehow it killed me, I assume because I was in the water. I'll give it another try soon, it seems like fun if you know what to do.
Post by: Frumple on June 11, 2014, 11:46:17 pm
Or weren't woodchucks, anyway. Dunno if someone's slipped one in or not, heh.
Also yeah, fighting in the water can be a problem, especially if it's early and you're not a lizard. If you look at the square with water in it and press x, you can get a rundown as to what water entails for you. The tl;dr version is "Stay out if you don't have a decent (5-10+) swimming score". Just moving through deeper water, nevermind fighting in it, is a risk if you've got a swim score of less than 4-5. Beyond the drowning damage, it's a good way to lose any potions you don't have in your bag.
Post by: Mindmaker on June 12, 2014, 05:29:51 am
Post by: Ikaruga on June 16, 2014, 01:59:34 am
Post by: Frumple on June 16, 2014, 02:18:36 am
You've got a little ranged capability via chakram, but it's not exactly much.
Post by: aenri on June 17, 2014, 02:49:40 am
Post by: chooseusername on June 17, 2014, 05:07:29 pm
PTW even if I don't play Inc at the momentPowered two wheelers?
Post by: Dutchling on June 17, 2014, 05:08:27 pm
Posting to watch.PTW even if I don't play Inc at the momentPowered two wheelers?
Post by: Zireael on June 19, 2014, 06:49:26 am
Post by: chooseusername on June 20, 2014, 07:54:33 pm
Did I see dependencies updated and Inc being moddable??The recent changes are mainly removing most of the compilation warnings, which also fixed about three real bugs along the way and which I stupidly did not keep track of. Using & instead of && and similar. Or using >> instead of <<. And also providing the tool to allow modifying the IncursionScript grammar, and I've used this to extend the language in a minor way. But the game was already moddable through the IncursionScript language, which could already be used to define a new module and to add races and so forth.
Post by: chooseusername on June 28, 2014, 03:25:34 am
This specific release is not known to be unstable, but most of the changes included are ones that need to get done to move forward. It is possible that because there were so many, some may have been done in a way that creates new bugs. It is intended that people who wish to, can play with this version and help work out if there are any problems before releasing the next version as a stable one. The next stable release may be done in two versions, the standard release, and a modder's release. If the modder's release interests you, please speak up. It will include the scripts and the ability to recompile the Halls of the Goblin King module, as well as to write your own.
There are no new features being added to releases. If a release is unstable, please download the preceding release and use that instead. I'd like to offer refunds to any purchasers of the problematic release, please proceed to the counter with your receipt. Thank you, come again!
Changes:
- This release is an interim one. Hundreds of compiler warnings were fixed, and while most were benign explicit type casting, three were bugs. Do not ask me what they were, as I was too stupid to note them down, and they are hidden amongst all the others. These changes are possibly unstable, and might cause this release to be unreliable.
- I recreated the missing accent compiler compiler source code. This allows changes to the IncursionScript language.
- Added typing support to the IncursionScript grammar for things like int8, int16 and so forth. Previously all data typing was int32. This was primarily to remove the warnings when compiling the generated IncursionScript engine to game engine method and function call access API code.
Post by: Retropunch on June 28, 2014, 07:07:22 am
Post by: Robsoie on June 28, 2014, 08:08:48 am
Post by: getter77 on June 28, 2014, 08:22:00 am
Post by: Micro102 on June 28, 2014, 11:09:22 pm
Post by: chooseusername on June 29, 2014, 02:40:21 am
Soooo, about what % of this game is finished?No idea. The game can be played to completion. So 100% and less than 100% both at the same time.
Post by: getter77 on June 29, 2014, 07:20:52 am
Post by: Zireael on June 29, 2014, 07:46:18 am
Post by: chooseusername on June 29, 2014, 11:02:01 pm
Post by: jazzable on July 05, 2014, 12:31:37 pm
Post by: Frumple on July 05, 2014, 01:46:20 pm
Soooo, about what % of this game is finished? Because it looks super complex, but at times it feels like it should have ten times what it does, like there are big gaps in the game. Probably because I cannot look up what things do. Wiki is barren.The answer is kinda' wibbly. Mechanics wise, Inc was probably a good 60-70% complete, maybe more (but less than 90%, I'd say) at the point the original dev set it free. Much of the remaining stuff, so far as I was aware, was AI (re)development, finishing up prestige classes, subraces, etc., and those bits of skills and/or spells and/or abilities that would only function in the greater game.
Content wise, though... maybe 10-15%, if I had to ballpark it based on my understanding. Halls of the Goblin King is basically a tech demo -- more than that, it's a combat tech demo that specifically excludes several of the major intended combat scenarios (urban and wilderness, particularly). It largely excludes everything social JM was intending (from what I recall -- standard faulty memory disclaimers, etc.) to implement, the whole "overworld", "multiple dungeons", and "cities" things that were intended, and who knows what else. Return of the Forsaken was very much ambitious -- Halls of the Goblin King was just laying the major mechanical foundation that was going to build a much larger (both in terms of size, and thematically) game. If I had to kinda' wedge in an estimate of size, I'd say smaller than DF, larger than ADOM or ToME4. RotF sounded like it was going to have a lot going for it, and a lot going on.
Incidentally, the white paper (http://incursion-roguelike.org/TechPaper%20(Web%20Version).htm) speaks quite a bit on stuff like that, particularly the future development part.
Post by: Elephant Parade on July 06, 2014, 03:19:58 pm
Post by: chooseusername on July 07, 2014, 03:28:28 pm
Concerning stability...i´m getting an occasional CTD i´ve not seen in the old versions; a strange error in room weight calculations (something along that line) when descending to a new level.And which version are you using?
If you get a save file that has the CTD happen after it, please upload it as an issue on the bitbucket site.
Post by: chooseusername on July 11, 2014, 08:04:11 pm
The idea is that I can then immediately reproduce the problem without contriving the reported situation myself, and this will allow me to fix a lot of things quickly. Rather than spending most of the time contriving situations.
Post by: CWheezy on July 13, 2014, 05:07:00 am
Rogues monks and warriors are ass haha
Post by: Micro102 on July 13, 2014, 08:44:37 am
Post by: Frumple on July 13, 2014, 10:10:43 am
As for balance stuff, I think the consensus was "maybe after the bugs are squashed and remaining stuff implemented" with a side of "major consensus between players re: needed changes will be considered for implementation first". Personally, unless a class is unwinnable, I wouldn't suggest touching them until everything else is done -- and of the three noted, only monks really approach having a problem, and even that's only starting off (if that -- they're usually fine even then if you hold off on trying to punch things to death for a bit). Warriors are death machines once they've got the kit to offset their terrible utility, and rogues just pick up Use Magic and blow everything to hell* (they're often cited as one of the easier classes to win with, so I'm not sure "ass" is how they're rightfully described). Even monks do alright once they've got some levels in 'em.
*Mind you, anyone can do that, but skillmonkey rogues have an easier time than most. Skill mastery + skill focus + high int = massive UMD checks all day erry day.
Post by: CWheezy on July 13, 2014, 11:56:28 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/an8nbavy9c81fom/Screenshot%202014-07-13%2009.52.17.png
Here is my save
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Holderhek.sav
Post by: chooseusername on July 13, 2014, 06:35:48 pm
Are you interested in any balance style changes, or are we stuck in 3.0?Well, any balance changes have to be proposed by someone else, and debated by the community. If I am convinced after that, I am happy to incorporate them. Otherwise, someone else can release their own balanced version.
Rogues monks and warriors are ass haha
Post by: chooseusername on July 13, 2014, 06:36:47 pm
Wiki upgrade would make this game a lot more popular. I stopped playing because most of the things I looked up weren't there.Like? If you were to list the things you expected to find there, then maybe the gaps could be filled.
Post by: CWheezy on July 13, 2014, 10:32:19 pm
So far my suggestions are Condensed skilll list and more skill points for all
Post by: chooseusername on July 14, 2014, 12:40:03 am
Post by: Frumple on July 14, 2014, 01:59:05 am
As for rogues -- sneaky, skill focus (Use Magic), stealth around picking up wands and the blowing everything into little pieces. Wands get completely and utterly ridiculous incredibly quickly, and there's literally nothing else in the game as capable of exploiting the involved skillchecks better than rogues, iirc. You can stab a few things in the process, I guess, or start as drow (or elf, I guess? I think they start with something both usable and ranged, too) and crossbow things until you can wand stuff to death or whatev'. Almost definitely want high int -- if you can live long enough to enable skill mastery with a high int rogue you can pretty promptly start doing silly things like permastealthing across the ceiling blowing everything up with doomwands. Skills are pretty great. Stealth is pretty alright.
There's plenty of other ways to run 'em, too. I've seen other folks do good things with some assassin and/or shadow-whatever prestige classing.
With monks, mostly just use your quarterstaff or whatever for the first bit. Don't forget you've got the chakram -- might as well use it. Once you've got some BAB in you, a few feats stuck in your fists, and some skills and class features enabled you do pretty decently as plain ol' melee. You can stealth around as well, if you want. Probably go lizard for the native armor, I'unno, or orc for the late game (disease immunity, omnomnom). Eventually you'll be immune to a lot of junk (orc luv, baby) and have some pretty killer skill rolls (especially for stuff like jump, which is actually pretty awesome if you've got enough bonus in it to make the friggin' jumps) as well as fists that can actually hurt critters and pretty quick feet. Maybe take a level of druid at some point to pick up magic fang (and hell, lifesight and longstrider while you're at it) if you're feeling frisky. I think there's a couple of monk gods that are okay with druids, if my memory's not failing.
Post by: chooseusername on July 14, 2014, 02:32:16 am
Aye, pretty much all passive DC stuff like that -- both for traps and locks, and probably some other junk -- increase with depth. I think the rationalization is that the earlier levels kill off the less competent lockmakers.Yes, but you would think that the DC would stay the same for a lockable object found on level X and carried up and down levels. Consistency is important from my perspective.
Post by: Frumple on July 14, 2014, 02:39:09 am
That's... actually kinda' amusing. Makes me realize I've never actually tried to move a chest between levels. That actually let me win a game, once -- character got deep, died, got reincarnated and clawed its way back to victory by swinging by chests I couldn't open early in the game and left alone to bootstrap itself back to where it died. Was pretty neat, ha.
Post by: CWheezy on July 14, 2014, 02:47:11 am
You don't say what feats to take. Power attack, then what?
Oh, right now my number 1 fix is reach weapons being able to hit large sized creatures, it always says I can't hit adjacent things, and when I step one square away they are out of range
Next is stairs spawning in a dangerous area, like a chasm so you go down some stairs and fall 6 floors, great.
Also, stairs spawning completely surrounded by walls, that seems wrong
Post by: Frumple on July 14, 2014, 06:32:56 am
Feats for monks? M'not actually sure I'd take power attack as a starting feat t'be honest. One of the ones I won with (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/incursion/monk/incursion/0E2HTBd-R8U/YmbBEvy0qCsJ) a ways back didn't take power attack at all (note: This was an older version -- I'm not sure if chi strike is still bugged or not.). Also you totally wouldn't want to go multitude anymore.* Power attack's probably not the most useful of talents for a monk unless you're intending to pick up the kick feats, at least if you're going unarmed -- you're not going to have the highest BAB (and thus tohit) score in the world, which means you won't be getting all that much out of it.
PA's good enough if you're going strength monk (and possibly grapple), though, instead of dex (which goes weapon finesse, instead). Big deal about going finesse is dex is going to be helping out your (desperately needed) DC, which is nice, and it synergizes with lightning fist (and you'll kinda' badly need the increased attack speed if you're eventually going unarmed -- this is less true if you're going with weapons or grappling primary, of course).
Lightning fists and fists of iron are nice starting ones (though in retrospect somewhat contradictory to my earlier "don't punch things for a bit" statement. Hrm.), sneaky's good if you're intending to stealth (obviously), expertise is apparently sexy according to me from years back. Dodge is naturally useful, as is run (though run is possibly somewhat superfluous in the face of your class based movement bonuses. Still, faster is better.). Of course, the fist stuff is meaningless if you're going weapon-monk, who probably wants cleave and will take that power attack.
Really, the question is what you're trying to do. Feat choice is going to change based on if you're going unarmed, unarmed with a grapple focus, armed, or... something else. Dodge and expertise are probably the only two starting feats I'd say are unilaterally useful on a monk. Maybe run. Later stuff is later stuff -- fist monk picks up special punchy stuff, grapple monk picks up grapple stuff, weapon monk picks up normal face-beaty feats ala barbarian, etc.
*No one wants to primary worship the multitude -- lay worship, sure (s'really random, but there's always that chance of /detect monsters/ or whatever and the minions can be useful.), but that "healing potions piss them off" thing makes 'em pretty much unplayable as a primary god. Only characters that might even remotely want to try would be someone with access to minor and/or major drain (they don't actually want to do that, no, but they're less crippled by it).
--
As for stairs spawning in dangerous places, other than making the stair tile itself safe, if that's possible, I really hope that feature sticks around. It's incredibly atmospheric to occasionally have a staircase that ends hanging over a chasm, or on top of lava, or in the middle of a river or whatever. Does suck to go down and immediately drop/fry/drown, but it's a beautiful mental image.
And yeah, the stair-surrounded thing is a glitch in the map generator -- you're notice you can actually see through one of the surrounding walls. Been meaning to drop off a save showcasing that behavior, but have been distracted and whatnot.
Post by: CWheezy on July 14, 2014, 07:00:59 am
Post by: Frumple on July 14, 2014, 08:24:11 am
Better is to go with one of the other evil gods (besides zurvash) and just lay worship multitude for extra stuff, imo.
Post by: Thydron on July 14, 2014, 08:51:50 am
The big rub with multitude right now is there's pretty much zero benefit to worshipping them as a primary god.
I think that's a bit of a side-effect of lay-worshipers being able to get above favour level 3 with gods at the moment; I'm fairly certain that's meant to be the limit (found something in the manual supporting this: "There are ten levels of favor possible with each god; characters can only be raised above the third level of favor with the god they have specifically devoted themselves to." - see http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/man/Advent.html#PA ), but getting that working properly would make dedicating yourself to the multitude more of an option (especially as the spell levels of whatever they give you increases with the favour level)
Post by: CWheezy on July 14, 2014, 02:16:07 pm
I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
Post by: chooseusername on July 14, 2014, 03:32:36 pm
Next is stairs spawning in a dangerous area, like a chasm so you go down some stairs and fall 6 floors, great.Already reported (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/160/stairs-can-be-generated-in-inaccessible). This is a legacy bug, and while I have a save file kindly provided by Vasiliy Kardanov, it does not help in debugging the issue. The problem is that I need to debug a level actually in the process of being generated, but to have a save file where someone has encountered it, the level will have to already have been generated. Map levels are generated on demand, and not in a deterministic way.
Also, stairs spawning completely surrounded by walls, that seems wrong
This has to wait until I find the time to understand the whole map generation process. If it looks like a longer term thing, I'll add in some warning if the stairs lead down to a dangerous tile.
Post by: chooseusername on July 14, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
Oh, right now my number 1 fix is reach weapons being able to hit large sized creatures, it always says I can't hit adjacent things, and when I step one square away they are out of rangeIf you want something fixed first, you need to make it as easy as possible for me to fix it. Get in the situation. Save the game. Compress the save file. Go to the issues site (listed in my signature), look for an issue which covers this. Create one, if you cannot see one. List the commands I should do to see the problem, and describe how they should work. Attach the compressed save file.
If someone does this right, then I can just download it, reproduce it under the debugger, and fix it in maybe minutes. If someone doesn't do it, then it could require hours for me to try and follow vague descriptions of problems and still not be able to see it.
Post by: Frumple on July 14, 2014, 03:39:43 pm
So uh, what is the actual win condition? Is there a win screen or anything?Now you have to get back out of the dungeon.
I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
Post by: chooseusername on July 14, 2014, 03:42:00 pm
So uh, what is the actual win condition? Is there a win screen or anything?Go to the in-game help, and read the introduction. It's the first thing covered there. From the main menu 'h' followed by '1'.
I killed the king and the two mind flayer mages, and I am sitting on the throne. Maybe I have to destroy it?
Post by: CWheezy on July 14, 2014, 09:09:58 pm
Here is my glorious victory! All hail the multitude:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Krang.html
My equipment is weird because it was pretty much all destroyed by rusting runes in the final boss area. Also, with the insanely powerful spells, and the many, many allies I had, everything was basically trivial
Post by: Micro102 on July 15, 2014, 12:36:47 am
Wiki upgrade would make this game a lot more popular. I stopped playing because most of the things I looked up weren't there.Like? If you were to list the things you expected to find there, then maybe the gaps could be filled.
Details on what every ability and item does. There are so many that in order to actually know what is worth getting and what they do.
Post by: Frumple on July 15, 2014, 01:00:06 am
I guess maybe enchantment stuff could stand to have a list somewhere, but the only place that a choice really comes up in regards to that is crafting magic weapons, and again there's a menu with everything laid out in pretty much plain english.
Any ideas beyond that?
Post by: chooseusername on July 15, 2014, 01:08:09 am
... transcribe and hotlink-enable the manual, basically. Could maybe stand some usability work, I guess.There was some talk about being able to generate the in-game manual into an HTML output. The code to do it, may be there. Or it may be that Julian was planning to also release that in his next batch of files.
You can hotlink browse the in-game manual, or at least will be able to better do so, once some bugs are fixed in the next release.
Post by: Micro102 on July 15, 2014, 01:50:01 am
http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index (http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index)
See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to. I make a new character and all I see is a list of feats, talents, abilities, and items in which I have no idea what they do. I made a random character and in order to understand everything he could do, I spent at least 10 minutes looking through the help menus and wiki, just to figure out what my guy could currently do. This is a huge turn off.
And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.
Post by: Thydron on July 15, 2014, 04:09:09 am
No the manual does not contain what I am talking about. I loaded the game up again to figure out exactly how I want, and int he process, I found this page.
http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index (http://incursion.wikidot.com/manual-index)
See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to.
Try: http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/man/Manual.html - not sure why it hasn't been copied over to the wiki in full (might do the final parts this evening), but it's a full version of the help with the missing sections (I think that's just an online version of the internal help file - all those details should be in the in-game help menu as well I think)
For reference, Strong Soul is the halfling special ability; helps prevent ability damage.
Post by: chooseusername on July 15, 2014, 04:35:01 am
See all those grey links under "Reference Lists"? All of that is very valuable information that I would love to have access to. I make a new character and all I see is a list of feats, talents, abilities, and items in which I have no idea what they do. I made a random character and in order to understand everything he could do, I spent at least 10 minutes looking through the help menus and wiki, just to figure out what my guy could currently do. This is a huge turn off.All this should be accessible directly in the character creation process. I have no idea what half the stuff does, and wish for the same information. But I don't want to have to go away and find the information, when I should be able to see the information in situ.
And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.
Post by: chooseusername on July 15, 2014, 04:36:10 am
Post by: Frumple on July 15, 2014, 07:21:09 am
This issue (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/129/order-of-journal-entries) suggests reversing the order of journal entries. Any objections? Speak up or get some change you prefer not to happen.Sounds like a good idea to me, actually.
And how would one figure out what extra abilities do? I had to search the wiki for a description of "strong soul +2", and could not locate it on the help menus. Heck, maybe all that is needed is a search engine on the in-game help menus.Strong soul is explicitly described in the halfling racial description (http://incursion-roguelike.org/man/Races.html#HA) :-\
Quote
* Strong Soul -- Halflings may seek to avoid discomfort whenever possible, but the truth is that they also survive through ordeals that would break the spirit of your typical human. They love life with a passion, and refuse to let go of that spark in the face of things which threaten their spirit, debilitate their mind or weaken their body.
In game terms, halflings have a kind of innate hardness rating against ability score damage. This value begins at 1 and increases by +1 every third level thereafter (2 at 4th, 3 at 7th, etc.) This value is subtracted from any damage the halfling might suffer to one of his abilities, and if it exceeds the damage, no harm is done. They also recieve a +2 bonus to save versus fear, and a +4 bonus versus death effects.
... when I say the strong, strong majority of the information you're talking about is in the manual, m'not just talking out m'arse. It really is in there -- some scattered a bit, but in there. And pretty much the rest of it is described via the information e'x'amine provides -- Incursion really is incredibly transparent about its mechanics. Could use a bit o'usability tweaks for some things, though, sure.
In-game search feature for the manual would be pretty awesome, as you say. More handy than pointing google at the website, anyway. Probably room for something on the character screen, kinda' like the feats menu-whatsit, that explicitly details the special abilities, too. Likely a few other things -- a consolidated, searchable page for spell abilities would be verra' nice.
For the special abilities, I'll go ahead and make the offer: If someone codes up the framework for it in the future, an'gives me a list (of all the ability names) and a formatting template, I'd be willing to do the scutwork of inputting all the descriptions if it has to be done manually. Can't code worth a damn, but data entry I can do.
Post by: Mephansteras on July 15, 2014, 11:40:43 am
Post by: Micro102 on July 15, 2014, 12:21:36 pm
Post by: chooseusername on July 17, 2014, 03:25:38 am
The problem is that the aggregation algorithm is both buggy and makes little sense. Let's say at the start of the aggregation algorithm, the initial aggregate bonus value is 0.
For each in play bonus, the following occurs. If the current aggregate bonus value is less than 0, then the current in play bonus is added to it. Otherwise the current aggregate bonus value is the maximum of itself, and the current in play bonus. The process is repeated until there are no more in play bonuses for the given stat. After this point, the final aggregate bonus value is what is used.
So, let's say you have 50 bonuses of -8 and 1 bonus of 4. If a -8 is first, then the stat value will be -396. If a 4 is first, then the stat value is 4.
Staying more sane, let's say you have a two -3 bonuses. The result will be -6. And similarly, let's say you have two 3 bonuses. The result will be 3.
Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)? Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?
Post by: Thydron on July 17, 2014, 03:54:01 am
This issue (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/129/order-of-journal-entries) suggests reversing the order of journal entries. Any objections? Speak up or get some change you prefer not to happen.
Seems sensible.
If we're (sort of) talking about ease-of-use changes, I'd be interested to know what default options people tend to use - I always turn on the inventory cursor, and I know that for new players the inventory system can be tricky to get to grips with, so might be worth considering turning that on by default? The "highlight sleeping/afflicted/etc." creature options also seem to me to be pretty useful without any obvious downsides
Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)? Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?
Is there a way to split the bonuses into positive and negative, then sum all the negatives, and add that to the maximum positive?
I think the treatment for positive and negatives is supposed to be different, and that what it's trying to do is stopping you getting e.g. a +6 intelligence bonus from a +3 ring and a +3 helm together, limiting the bonus to just +3, but still taking into account the total negative e.g. -6 intelligence with -2 from a disease and -4 from confusion.
At least I think that's the intended logic from looking at how the positive and negative bonuses are treated separately
Post by: Zireael on July 17, 2014, 04:15:43 am
If it has, enforce it. If it doesn't, well, stacking everything would be OP.
Negative stat bonuses: if it has the above, consider them circumstance bonuses mostly. and above all, don't let self-same bonuses stack (2x confusion shouldn't give -8 int, but -6 int from disease and confusion sounds fine)
Post by: ejseto on July 17, 2014, 09:33:20 am
Positive stat bonuses: does Incursion have the concept of different bonus types? Like, the inherent bonus, the circumstance bonus etc.?
It does. It tells you on your character sheet exactly what types and quantities of bonuses you're getting to pretty much every statistic as well.
Should stat bonuses stack (as the negative stat bonuses imply)? Or should the best stack bonus be chosen and used in place of any of the others (as the positive stat bonuses imply)?
Negative bonuses from different sources (even of the same type) should stack. Only positive bonuses of different types should stack. This creates non-linearity in the value of item bonuses so that a +5 is worth more than 5x that of a +1, which I believe is intentional. But that's not necessary for cursed items since foolishness should be punished to the full extent of the law.
Post by: Frumple on July 17, 2014, 10:14:43 am
Negative bonuses from different sources (even of the same type) should stack. Only positive bonuses of different types should stack.This... mostly. It should take the best of each type (so, no stacking) except with explicit ability damage (ala poisons and diseases, and things like bonebat attacks or that one green thing that damages your dex when you attack it, stuff like that). So you wouldn't have curses or cursed equipment penalties stacking on top of each other, but poisons and diseases would do their thing properly.
Basically the difference between stat drain and stat damage, I suppose. A drain, as with curses and confusion and whatnot, shouldn't stack with itself (different types, of course, should stack pretty much always), while damage, as with poisons and certain creature abilities (again, bonebat bite) should.
Post by: chooseusername on July 17, 2014, 08:57:44 pm
Note that if you have 30 retribution anger penalties from Essiah of -6 stat adjustment, that's -180. However, the bonus range is -128 to 127, so what it actually means is that actually means a stat bonus of ~+75 or thereabouts. That's some old school video wrap around the counter cheat mode shit right there.
Post by: CWheezy on July 20, 2014, 09:38:26 am
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Quevven.sav
Post by: kuniqs on July 21, 2014, 04:48:45 am
1) Barkskin spell gives much more armor than it reads in the description
2) Should Mage Armor & Barkskin stack? Because druid/mages can pull some insane armor ratings with the Empower spell metamagic (empower spell should also be made more costly since it can significantly boost buffing spells)
Post by: ejseto on July 21, 2014, 06:08:14 am
Why can this character not worship Xavias?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7131649/Incursion/Quevven.sav
Do you have favor with him? It's not listed on the wiki or manual, but according to religion.irh, he requires 500 favor to convert (MIN_CONVERT_FAVOUR 500).
Post by: CWheezy on July 21, 2014, 11:06:48 am
Post by: Frumple on July 21, 2014, 11:37:59 am
Post by: CWheezy on July 21, 2014, 02:31:57 pm
Post by: chaoticag on July 21, 2014, 05:03:41 pm
I haven't read the whole topic but:Mage armor provides an armor bonus to AC, and Bark skin works by giving a natural bonus to AC through enchantment. As odd as it sounds, those two bonuses stack. (Bark skins Natural armor even stacks from other sources of natural armor except enchantment bonuses). That's how it should work in 3.5 at least.
1) Barkskin spell gives much more armor than it reads in the description
2) Should Mage Armor & Barkskin stack? Because druid/mages can pull some insane armor ratings with the Empower spell metamagic (empower spell should also be made more costly since it can significantly boost buffing spells)
Post by: kuniqs on August 08, 2014, 09:09:37 am
I've finally layed my hands on 3.5 Player's Handbook and it turns out:
1) Empower Spell works only for spells with random component
2) Barkskin gives +2ac, +1 for 3 caster levels
3) Mage Armor gives +4ac, period
Under 3.5 edition rules (and maybe 3.0), you can combine neither of those two spells with the Empower Spell metamagic.
I'm not trying to say "It's not in the rules" but to point out that in Incursion, stacking Mage armor with Barkskin and Empower spell on both is wildly unbalanced. The strongest armor without enchantment gives you ~16 armor across the board. By sacrificing 2 spell slots and 1 feat slot, you can get ~40 natural armor which isn't bypassed by critical hits and doesn't give you skill penalties.
There's currently no point in playing a fighter except to get few bonus feats and magic items at start. Fighters are good as dead when making balance/escape artist checks. Mage/druids can make themselves practically invulnerable to physical damage at level 3.
The only pure fighter I've won the game with was a rider who charged everything before it had a chance to touch him.
Post by: Frumple on August 08, 2014, 10:00:39 am
Do note that neither mage armor, nor so far as I can remember, barkskin, provide any cover. All the natural armor in the world is going to do precisely jack-all when a bonebat or something flaps by. Also, no, not level three. Barkskin is a second level spell, so a druid/mage stacking mage armor and barkskin is going to need at least level four, at which point they (assuming going abjurer) get something like +14 natural armor, no cover, and... lemme' see, around 80 mana sunk. Along with fatigue, a feat, a being locked into abjurer, wasting mana on something that should be almost completely useless to them... congrats, you've netted almost as much armor efficiency as a fighter can, by building your character in a hilariously suboptimal and mostly useless direction :V
Also you still can't hit anything, have effectively little to no HP and can't dodge worth a damn, and have anywhere from a half to a third of your MP making you tough to kill... in melee. Where you shouldn't be. Ever. Barring maybe wildshape, but all the good forms in that have reach anyway so...
E: Make no mistake: Fighters pretty much are the worst class in the game. Their lack of utility renders them notably suboptimal compared to everything else. Even monks. But they're pretty much the best at a few, very specific, things. Dual-wielding, ranged damage output (not general ranged weapon use, mind -- nighthunter mounts and a spell list render rangers superior in that), armor and reach weapon use -- stuff that's very feat intensive and/or benefits from the BAB and weapon specialization. You're just not going to have a mage/druid that can tank as well and hit as hard in melee, at the same time, as a high end fighter (note: They don't freaking need to, because they're casters and they can just blow things up while drowning them in bodies).
Post by: Zireael on August 10, 2014, 04:53:30 am
Post by: getter77 on August 10, 2014, 06:44:24 am
Post by: Oneir on August 10, 2014, 08:18:40 am
I've finally layed my hands on 3.5 Player's Handbook
Well everyone should bear in mind the rules can be all sorts of different, 90% of basic D&D 3.5 is under the open gaming license, so you can freely post it online. Like so: d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/).
Post by: Frumple on August 10, 2014, 08:36:46 am
Dual spiked chain? Sounds really iffy and dangeroys.From a realism perspective, yes. From a gameplay/mechanics perspective, it absolutely wrecks all the faces once it gets off the ground (which happens somewhere in the level 4-6 range, iirc -- and before then, you can just use one, probably with a shield once you get monkey grip).
The flat fact is that spiked chains are one of the best (perhaps the best) weapons in the game (solid damage, innate entangle, usable while grappled, reach, ridiculous parry bonus, they've got pretty much everything), and with the updates from choose have been massively buffed (due to them actually getting those reach repulsion checks, now, which is just wonderfully gratuitous). Throw two on an high BAB/dex/weapon specialization (for speed and increased DC on the entangle/knock prone/keep away) with the feats to dual wield them (monkey grip, florentine) and knock prone, and you basically turn into an untouchable blender that just destroys everything you get within range of. It's just hilariously ridiculous, ha. One of the best builds in the game in regards to simple raw melee. Very little is as capable of outright dismantling anything that gets within close range like a dual-spiked chain build.
Post by: kuniqs on August 11, 2014, 05:40:57 am
I don't know what you are talking about coverage - normal armor doesn't give you ac bonus, and coverage makes you better at avoiding armor-punching hits, and is increased by shields.
~100 mana isn't such a big deal for spellcasters, by 4th level I was able to cast empowered Mage armor/barkskin without any problems or sacrificing other buffs.
Post by: Kagus on August 11, 2014, 11:30:43 am
Closest I got was an alienist with Clvl 9, who wound up getting state-locked in a permanent counterspell loop with a couple mindflayers.
Second-closest was actually a fighter, but said fighter was a gnome. And, well, gnomes are... different. I was more of a gunslinger than a "fighter" in the traditional sense. Got disease-statkilled by an infernal tortoise-type-thingy that was stuck in a summoning circle and spewed me with something the moment I walked past the door.
Furthermore,
PTW new thread.
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on August 11, 2014, 11:45:14 am
Post by: Frumple on August 11, 2014, 01:13:53 pm
I don't know what you are talking about coverage - normal armor doesn't give you ac bonus, and coverage makes you better at avoiding armor-punching hits, and is increased by shields.Shields and armor both give coverage -- and specifically, if you have no coverage, stuff like bonebat attacks -- most special melee attacks, from what I can recall, among other things -- pretty much automatically hit (barring dodging, of course). With coverage, though, there's a chance to actually block the effect, sometimes.
It's largely irrelevant to your average mage -- just like armor or DC is, really, because you're never going to be in a situation where a physical attack is hitting you unless you're playing suboptimally -- but it does mean that all the AC in the world isn't really going to do much for you without some coverage to back it up. Even if it's natural armor. I stopped using mage armor at all after the sixth or seventh mage that got ambushed into statdeath by bonebats, ha. Started just putting on leather armor or somethin'.
Still, regarding the barkskin/Mage Armor combo specifically, it does look like it's a fairly decent AC boost. I'd actually forgotten the specific mechanics of multiclassing disparate casters, so eh. Still notably worse than actual armor overall, due to the whole not-actually-armor (and thus, no enchantments) thing, and doesn't really do much to help the character in question to actually do anything in melee (BAB et al), but it might be interesting to dip for that much then swing into an actual melee class. Shame it's not compatible with monk stuff... or barbarian, looking at it, since mage armor counts as medium.
... now I'm kinda' wondering why bother with mage armor at all. Just nab bark skin and wear light armor. Or actual armor. I guess if you're going wildshape druid?
E: Or spirit armor, I suppose, if you'd rather go necromancer instead of abjurer. Bit more investment into mage, but eh.
Post by: esran on August 18, 2014, 01:28:23 am
I got to the temple and I want to essiah or hessani or both since both tolerate eachother. However, for some reason when I try to convert, or even just make sacrifices, I get "thou art not worthy of my gifts". Anyone know why this is happening?
My characters desired alignment is lawful good, and he has strong good tendencies, and very strong lawful tendencies. He's never served nor sacrificed to any gods before. When fighting he always quells and enlists if possible, and failing that uses sneak attacks and his +5 shocking elven longsword of fey trapping. For particular difficult encounters he uses call companions to summon a wrecking ball of carnage that destroys all in its path. I disabled complicity transgressions because my allies won't stop attacking neutrals, and, every so often, eachother (although high bluff usually handles that). I am allied with both evil and good allies, which I am worried might be why the gods won't accept me.
Does anyone know why this is happening, and if it is caused by evil party members? If I have to arrange for my evil party members to die I can, but I would prefer to avoid such drastic measures.
Post by: Frumple on August 18, 2014, 08:16:31 am
Gods in inc are... probably the most fiddly and obfuscated mechanic in the game, as well as somewhat buggy in ways I only vaguely remember. Going full spoiler in game is probably your best bet for figuring out exactly what's happening.
That said, with hessani* specifically you've probably pissed him off enough he won't have you. That you've been regularly using call companions is quite possibly enough to do that by itself. From what I recall (note: I can definitely be failing a memory check, here), gods do actually track anger and whatnot when you're not worshiping or aligned with them, they just don't smite the buggery out of you for doing stuff that irritates them. So you can likely build up enough dislike to block any relationship whatsoever, even without being nominally or fully aligned with them.
*It's worth noting that hessani is an absolute nightmare to worship. There is lit. no other god in the game as hard to please -- not even Maeve, and Maeve will basically kill you on a whim.
Post by: Kagus on August 18, 2014, 11:46:14 am
Just make a couple appropriate sacrifices on each of their altars. The way gods are viewed in Incursion is basically that they have no influence outside of their "scope", and their "scope" is those individuals and places that have interacted with them in some way. So all the nice quelling and allying you've been doing hasn't been seen. All they see is some stranger walking in asking for divine attentions.
Sacrifice some lovely gold coins to Hesani, and some evil creatures to Essiah (NOTE: Stuff like goblins, orcs and the like? Not inherently evil. There are neutral and even good-aligned goblinoids that get spawned, and Essiah is NOT happy about you attempting to sacrifice them), then try converting again.
Post by: esran on August 18, 2014, 01:02:14 pm
Well, see, that's just it... Hesani won't nuke you on a whim or summon a bunch of dire panthers on top of your head. Also, Hesani is a cinch to please if you have companions and disabled transgressions... You can get your followers to absolutely slaughter everything and he won't give a damn. Also, Hesani at least doesn't give two puffs if you have evil critters with you, s'long as you're not fighting them he's good with it (so far as I can recall, at least).They won't let me sacrifice to them. When I try to sacrifice gold, by praying on their altar and hitting 's', that's when I'm told I'm not worthy.
Just make a couple appropriate sacrifices on each of their altars. The way gods are viewed in Incursion is basically that they have no influence outside of their "scope", and their "scope" is those individuals and places that have interacted with them in some way. So all the nice quelling and allying you've been doing hasn't been seen. All they see is some stranger walking in asking for divine attentions.
Sacrifice some lovely gold coins to Hesani, and some evil creatures to Essiah (NOTE: Stuff like goblins, orcs and the like? Not inherently evil. There are neutral and even good-aligned goblinoids that get spawned, and Essiah is NOT happy about you attempting to sacrifice them), then try converting again.
edit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/luiouptlcsfyei2/Brandy.sav?dl=0 That's the link to my save I think. If its not level 4 bard in the alter room I linked the wrong thing. So, any reason why gods woldn't let a character sacrifice?
Post by: Kagus on August 18, 2014, 01:30:50 pm
Post by: esran on August 18, 2014, 05:36:37 pm
Is that build Y12? I'm running Y11 and the savegame isn't showing up for me.Yeah, its Y12. I thought that was the most recent build?
Post by: Kagus on August 19, 2014, 12:41:31 am
Post by: chooseusername on August 24, 2014, 04:27:22 pm
Post by: kuniqs on September 04, 2014, 04:42:26 am
Post by: Hamel on September 04, 2014, 11:46:05 am
My latest attempt was cut short by the Infinite Counter-spelling Loop of Death. Which sadly still appears to be running amok. I guess Spellcraft is still a skill people should avoid training at all costs.
I've also learned that it can be very frustrating trying to dispel a Greater Dimensional Anchor effect when you're playing a Drow. The GDA trap in general is pretty aggravating, but failing the spell penetration check with all the scrolls of Dispel Magic you made that day is... bad. Oh, and apparently Dispel Magic ruins your magic items? Something to keep in mind I guess, though it seems like a tremendous "screw you" from the game waiting to happen.
Magic Resistance almost seems like more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Starting out as a Drow mage and having Phase Door miss half the time is pretty terrible. In DnD you automatically penetrate your own spell resistance and can even lower it at will. Sadly neither of these things seem to be present in Incursion?
Oh, and a bit of advice for any aspiring mages: Never have Fireball on a number hotkey. It's pretty easy to blow yourself to smithereens by accident.
Post by: Frumple on September 04, 2014, 12:18:30 pm
Dispelled items come back after a while. Or should, anyway. Usually can just search a few times, or go take a nap. Greater dimensional anchor is something it's usually best to just sleep off, from what I've seen. Dispelling yourself is generally more trouble than it's worth, yeah. Has roughly the same effect as resting, except you still have a chunk of held mana just kind of being there.
You shouldn't be having to pass magic res checks when you're PDing yourself, though. I don't remember my drow having that problem. Actually, I just bounced a level one one around in version Y11 with no problem. Let me try with a weavecrafter real quick... nah, weavecrafters don't have that problem, either. Not sure what problem you're having, but I don't think it's magic resistance.
Post by: Hamel on September 04, 2014, 04:31:10 pm
Good to know that dispelled magic items go back to normal after a while. But, are you sure Greater Dimensional Anchor wears off after resting? It didn't go away after I rested once, and it said it was permanent (not persistent) until dispelled, in the conditions list. I've been hit by standard dimensional anchor traps before, and those always wore off after resting once.
It's strange. I've regularly got the message "You are unaffected" when casting Phase Door (followed by it not working) during normal play. But, when I started up a new mage just now and Phase Door'd around the starting room it didn't happen once. Meh, oh well.
Post by: Frumple on September 04, 2014, 04:37:56 pm
As for that "you are unaffected" I'm fairly sure that's from the spell trying to put you somewhere it kinda' can't. Not a magic resistance thing. It's the same mechanic that makes (made?) teleport completely useless. Iirc, unless Choose has changed the behavior, a teleportation effect that's not uncontrolled (like, say, if you're a weavecrafter trying to cast PD) cannot put you anywhere except in line of sight. And by that, I mean places that you can actually see -- a weavecrafter in a cloud cannot (/could not -- again, choose may have changed the behavior) phase at all. PD on a non-weavecrafter shouldn't be running into that message, but a weavecrafter would be struggling with it all game if they didn't realize what was causing it.
Post by: Hamel on September 04, 2014, 05:40:58 pm
Post by: Kagus on September 05, 2014, 04:27:45 am
Has the alienist spell list bug been fixed? I haven't checked recently, but I remember being really sad when whichever version it was came around and made it so that if you became an alienist you were error-blocked from ever learning a new spell on the character menu. Which, y'know, for a caster, is kinda bad...
I still need to do that "all-access diplomat" character idea I had a while back... Diplomacy-oriented druid of Mara. Animal empathy for beasts, diplomacy for living creatures and Mara worship for being able to quell/talk to the dead. Plus you get the permasummons from both Druid class and Mara abilities to help bolster your forces. I've also wanted to do an Orc Jesus character a la Crawl, but Khasrach can be... Uh, well, a bitch.
Post by: Zireael on September 05, 2014, 05:05:50 am
Quote
I still need to do that "all-access diplomat" character idea I had a while back... Diplomacy-oriented druid of Mara. Animal empathy for beasts, diplomacy for living creatures and Mara worship for being able to quell/talk to the dead. Plus you get the permasummons from both Druid class and Mara abilities to help bolster your forces.
Sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!
Post by: Frumple on September 05, 2014, 05:15:31 am
Though Orc jesus would probably need to wait for AI fixin', unless that behavior where barracks have this tendency to completely implode on themselves has already been corrected while I wasn't paying attention. Hard to talk orc brethren into the fold when they've all gone and killed each other.
Post by: Kagus on September 05, 2014, 02:52:11 pm
Also, I thought you couldn't get beyond a certain level of favor as a lay worshiper? According to the Utterly-Infallible-and-Completely-Reliable wiki, Kysul doesn't provide aberration command until 6th favor level. And looking at the personalities, they really don't clash that much as they're both good gods.
Both dislike evil acts, though, which is occasionally a bit of a pisser... But that's why having companions with complicity transgressions turned off is such a great thing! You can order them to murder, rob, pillage and defile, and it won't count as an evil act! This is how I used to get around being a Hesani worshiper, while still being the backstabbing cunt I tend to be when playing Incursion...
Now, I should also mention that I only recently found out that a druid class isn't necessarily required for animal empathy to work. I'm pretty sure that back in the day, although you could get and put points into AE, you wouldn't actually be able to use it unless you had levels in Druid or Ranger. So you could theoretically just take a human Bard or Rogue and spend the extra skill on Animal Empathy to cover the wild kingdom.
However, being a druid or a ranger does of course get the animal companions, not to mention the various summons for the druid.
Oh, yeah, and in case you were wondering... The "soothing word" ability from the Succor domain is absolute crud. Don't rely on it for a damn thing.
Post by: Hamel on September 07, 2014, 01:13:00 pm
I noticed a few oddities in this last game, though. First off, minor drain seems to heal you before checking to see if it actually dealt damage. For instance, shooting undead or other necromantic immune enemies will still result in healing. Apparently, if you can get some necromantic resistance, you can just drain yourself for quick healing. It's only slightly more convenient than just summoning weak monsters to drain (which apparently isn't evil?), but it's kind of weird. I suspect just being a drow casting minor drain on oneself would probably result in a net HP gain.
Secondly, harm traps apparently cast harm on you in the sense that they grant you a number of touch attacks that deal damage. This does not seem to be working as intended.
Finally, enemy mages casting minor globe of invulnerability on the player seems a little strange. They could cast it on themselves for mostly the same effect, and the player couldn't just cancel it immediately.
Post by: Zireael on September 16, 2014, 01:43:36 pm
Apart from the skirmish ranger style, my character got a perk named Inherent Potential +1. In-game help didn't help :) help?
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on September 16, 2014, 02:00:53 pm
HUMAN RACIAL TRAITS
* Inherant Potential -- While elves are on average more graceful than humans, dwarves hardier and orcs stronger, there exist legendary heros from within the human race that exceed the capacity of all the other races. In game terms, humans can gain increased benefit from inherant adjustments to their ability scores. While the other races can gain a maximum inherant bonus to any one ability score of +5, humans can gain inherant bonuses to a single ability totalling +8.
The random perks act the same if they have the same name. For example, rolling the 'Devourer' [I think?] perk will allow you to eat things and gain exp/resistances from it as if you were an Orc.
Post by: Zireael on September 27, 2014, 01:17:54 pm
Post by: Frumple on September 27, 2014, 01:39:28 pm
About the best alternative I've managed is to play a dwarf (or Xavias worshiper), wizard up yourself high level, and manually craft magical junk.
Post by: guessingo on September 27, 2014, 03:50:54 pm
Post by: Zireael on September 28, 2014, 04:10:21 am
is chooseusername still bugfixing this? Or has he moved onto other stuff. Compared to how buggy incursion was what state is it in now?
It's waaay better and the only thing it's missing is tiles, and humanly readable language (sorry, I can't into C)
Post by: kuniqs on October 02, 2014, 03:52:57 am
Post by: Zireael on October 08, 2014, 10:47:22 am
So much loot!
Story: two human priests, whose mounts suddenly started kicking each other, making it easier for me to pick them off from distance using my blessed elven sling stones +3. Then a satyr showed up and picked up all the loot, not caring about me, so I picked up the sling stones back and killed him too.
The fact you can see my wallpaper is just a bonus.
Post by: Frumple on October 08, 2014, 11:07:12 am
Pretty sure I've had games end with like 100+ stacks of potions of extra-healing (not plain healing, mind -- that's not impossible even without challenge difficulty -- extra-healing, the next step up) and such silliness, it got pretty great. Eventually toned down because it was freaking insane to walk onto a level with several dozen classed monsters and an equal or greater amount of non-classed (but probably still otherwise templated) ones, including many dragons or whatev'.
Post by: Zireael on October 08, 2014, 12:53:40 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 08, 2014, 01:52:47 pm
...and then the surviving ones, cloning all the time, start a mad sock rush to grab the statues, thus turning into more statues themselves. A perpetual stream of gremlins running to their doom.
...
Gremlemmings.
Post by: chooseusername on October 17, 2014, 04:05:56 pm
is chooseusername still bugfixing this? Or has he moved onto other stuff. Compared to how buggy incursion was what state is it in now?There's several problems which aren't easy to fix, which require a lot of research. Or mindless playing, in order to try and reproduce them.
When the room weights problem is tracked down, I'll do a "stable" release. Then the next priority will be the previously mentioned attribute stacking problem.
If you want bugs fixed, it's best to make it as easy as possible. But making sure it can be easily reproduced. That all the information necessary is available in a bug on bitbucket.
Post by: chooseusername on October 27, 2014, 12:31:52 am
There are no new features being added to releases. If a release is marked as unstable and turns out to actually be unstable, please download the preceding release and use that instead.
Changes:
- Issue 167 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/167/): Sometimes when level areas are being generated, the selection of room types failed, and a fatal error put allowed the player to win the game of failed level area generation. This game is not about the player winning, so the relevant code has been altered to better handle problem situations.
- Issue 168 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/168/): The tabbing between links in the help system causes crashes. Legacy bug where code was looking for information using X as Y coordinate and Y as X coordinate. Also a Y1 bug where looking up the character at a screen coordinate was incorrectly implemented.
- Issue 169 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/169/): This fixes the dialog which appears in debug builds when leaked stati backrefs are found. When an object is removed, it cleans up the stati which have it as a target. To do this, it looks at the backref on itself, then to the stati on the originating object. But certain kinds of stati when removed, are simply orphaned with the backref removed explicitly. The only problem was that the backref removal passed in opposite values than which it needed to, failing to remove the backref. Then the removed object would see the backref again when it moved on to it's next removal, and not be able to find the now-orphaned stati. Cue dialog.
- Issue 170 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/170/): Little known fact that objects get more difficult to unlock the deeper into the dungeon you get. If a locked object in your inventory is examined, this fact combined with items in your inventory not being in the dungeon, results in a crash.
- Issue 170 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/170/): A different issue relates to broken dungeon generation, which places stairs down to unsafe terrain. Fixing that would fix the dungeon generation. This issue and fix relates to instead adding a confirmation dialog to the taking of stairs down to unsafe terrain, under the provisio you should be able to step down carefully and choose to step back up. There is a school of thought that these stairs to unsafe terrain are an interesting feature which should be retained, regardless of fixes to dungeon generation.
Post by: Zireael on October 27, 2014, 02:47:36 am
Post by: chooseusername on November 15, 2014, 01:48:33 am
There are no new features being added to releases. This is the first "stable" release after a series of changes to improve the code base. It includes bug fixes to gameplay, both new ones, and others included in the unstable releases Y12/Y13.
Changes:
- Issue 129 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/129/): Journal entries are now listed in order of most recent to oldest. Level stats are put first, instead of last. This is to put the most relevant information in the most accessible place. Reported by golgepapaz, with patch.
- Issue 135 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/135/): Lost symbols for wrapped messages. This was observable through looking at monsters with lifesight cast. Any wrapped text in the generated description would be overwritten in some cases. Reported by Karagy.
- Issue 150 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/150/): Making a chi strike did not explicitly take mana from the victim, and likely took it from the actor. Reported by dck k.
- Issue 155 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/155/): Gauntlets of Rust can be activated from the 'a'ctivate menu. The description only addressed protection from rust, and not the 3x per day rusting grasp they can be used for. The description has been amended. Reported by dck k.
- Issue 167 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/167/): More level generation fixes related to room weights. If comparing a signed value stored in an unsigned variable, cast it before comparison, not after. Also, if all room types were flagged as already used, they would then all be unflagged for reuse - however it was also necessary to reset the room weights and more.
- Issue 173 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/173/): Knowledge domain does not grant scribe scroll spell as described. Reported by Brett Olsen, with patch.
- Issue 176 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/176/): Compilation warning fixes broke alignment checks, resulting in penalties and restrictions for the wrong alignments. Reported by John Olender, with patch.
- Issue 177 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/177/): Use menu was enacting the wrong effect, for selected innate abilities. This was due to Y12 compiler warning fixes, where an argument to UseAbility was cast to uint8, and UseAbility had it typed as int16. Reported by S M.
Post by: chooseusername on November 17, 2014, 02:24:56 pm
Post by: Felius on November 20, 2014, 11:09:50 pm
Edit: On a different note, getting a red square freeze when I try to use my identify wand or read one of my identify scrolls in this save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/olu9p0og0nvi6g9/Wuyondra.sav?dl=0
Edit2: Also, taking the opportunity to confirm one thing: Crafting the drow racial weapons (the hand crossbow) and its ammo isn't possible in the game yet, is that right? Not making great use of them since ammo is so limited in the long run (even considering the ability to reuse the ammo).
Post by: chooseusername on November 22, 2014, 12:54:50 am
Edit: On a different note, getting a red square freeze when I try to use my identify wand or read one of my identify scrolls in this save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/olu9p0og0nvi6g9/Wuyondra.sav?dl=0
Fixed in bug 188 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/188/more-than-100-items-in-inventory-would).
No idea about Drow thing.
Post by: Zireael on November 22, 2014, 03:37:46 am
Post by: guessingo on November 22, 2014, 09:19:50 am
Post by: chooseusername on November 22, 2014, 01:38:57 pm
You can check what's craftable by taking a Dwarf race and leveling to lvl 8 or thereabouts. That's how Julian made it - choose, are we going to get some content additions ever?I've been thinking that throwing in the odd content addition is valuable, as posting lists of bug fixes with each release feels a bit soulless. However I got involved to make it stable, not to put my own spin on the game.
Post by: Mictlantecuhtli on November 22, 2014, 01:46:26 pm
Post by: Felius on November 22, 2014, 10:41:56 pm
Yay! Speedy fix is speedy.Edit: On a different note, getting a red square freeze when I try to use my identify wand or read one of my identify scrolls in this save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/olu9p0og0nvi6g9/Wuyondra.sav?dl=0
Fixed in bug 188 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/188/more-than-100-items-in-inventory-would).
No idea about Drow thing.
On the drow hand crossbow: Did some experimenting with the wizard mode: That bolt doesn't seem to be even available to wizard mode spawning, let alone normal crafting. The issue is, they apparently use a different bolt from the standard crossbow one, which is apparently pretty much uniquely limited to those drow characters start with and not a single more.
If not possible to make those craftable, it could be interesting to simply let use them normal crossbow bolts. It's not like it'd make much difference in the damage anyway...
Also, taking the opportunity to do the odd bug report: When using precisions strikes and choosing to pick the target by targets (instead of direction or the like), the game doesn't seem to check if the enemy is in range, which makes all characters kinda able to do the equivalent of the anime style "wind cut" from afar. :P
Post by: chooseusername on November 23, 2014, 02:07:30 am
Also, taking the opportunity to do the odd bug report: When using precisions strikes and choosing to pick the target by targets (instead of direction or the like), the game doesn't seem to check if the enemy is in range, which makes all characters kinda able to do the equivalent of the anime style "wind cut" from afar. :PIt'll probably get lost, unless it gets added in the bug tracker. And the likelihood of it getting fixed is directly proportional to how easy it is for me to reproduce, so if you could add a compressed save file with instructions on what to do, it would be appreciated ;D
Post by: Zireael on November 23, 2014, 05:35:18 am
Just try to finish up the classes that are implemented [but not finished] first and I'll be fine with anything else you do that doesn't break Incursion. :]
Good point.
Post by: Felius on November 23, 2014, 10:03:23 am
Just do a precision attack (p in the extended combat menu opened by c) when an enemy would be outside range, no matter what you have equiped or whatsoever. Not quite necessary, but here's a save with a warrior wielding just a shield as a weapon with an enemy in the screen but not so close that it could be attacked without one of them moving first:Also, taking the opportunity to do the odd bug report: When using precisions strikes and choosing to pick the target by targets (instead of direction or the like), the game doesn't seem to check if the enemy is in range, which makes all characters kinda able to do the equivalent of the anime style "wind cut" from afar. :PIt'll probably get lost, unless it gets added in the bug tracker. And the likelihood of it getting fixed is directly proportional to how easy it is for me to reproduce, so if you could add a compressed save file with instructions on what to do, it would be appreciated ;D
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn6g7m2dhtjl4sx/Joan.sav?dl=0
Edit:
And on another misc bug report:
Using the "knowledge (magic)" to identify items in the library don't seem to actually take any time. Here's a save in a good position to test it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwu8vqhm6vigm41/Wuyondra%20%282%29.sav?dl=0
Edit2: And on yet another red square bug report with a save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/loydq9mom4nvpl8/Wuyondra%20%283%29.sav?dl=0
Trying to attack the priest just south of my character gives the red square and crashes the game.
Post by: chooseusername on November 24, 2014, 04:00:00 pm
Just do a precision attack (p in the extended combat menu opened by c) when an enemy would be outside range, no matter what you have equiped or whatsoever. Not quite necessary, but here's a save with a warrior wielding just a shield as a weapon with an enemy in the screen but not so close that it could be attacked without one of them moving first:Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/189/precision-strike-tactical-combat-command).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn6g7m2dhtjl4sx/Joan.sav?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on November 24, 2014, 04:08:56 pm
Edit:When you do this, it says "an hour passes" and the time is added to the turn count. Can you provide a way of verifying that this does not actually happen? Note in this case, after researching 8-9 times, you should hit the allowed awake time.
And on another misc bug report:
Using the "knowledge (magic)" to identify items in the library don't seem to actually take any time. Here's a save in a good position to test it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwu8vqhm6vigm41/Wuyondra%20%282%29.sav?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on November 24, 2014, 05:24:50 pm
Edit2: And on yet another red square bug report with a save:Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/190/god-anger-pulses-get-registered-multiple).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/loydq9mom4nvpl8/Wuyondra%20%283%29.sav?dl=0
Trying to attack the priest just south of my character gives the red square and crashes the game.
Post by: Felius on November 24, 2014, 06:16:06 pm
On the version I have (Y14), while it does give the "an hour passes", and it does hit the "allowed awake time", it does not add to the turn count. Not a major bug to be fair, and don't know if fixing this might end having unintended side effects.Edit:When you do this, it says "an hour passes" and the time is added to the turn count. Can you provide a way of verifying that this does not actually happen? Note in this case, after researching 8-9 times, you should hit the allowed awake time.
And on another misc bug report:
Using the "knowledge (magic)" to identify items in the library don't seem to actually take any time. Here's a save in a good position to test it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwu8vqhm6vigm41/Wuyondra%20%282%29.sav?dl=0
Kinda sad that the "precision" attack is not possible with ranged attacks anymore for now at least, but I guess it's a fair enough fix for the problem present. Maybe add a different "type" of precision attack that only goes for ranged weapons?
On a different note, not so much a bug report, but a request for extra documentation and information about something I haven't managed to find in the game: Max range for ranged sneak attacks. From experimentation it seems to max at 3 squares, but it might be only for the short bow with sheath arrows. But either way, it's probably something that could be interesting to have in the game, even if only in the help documentation.
Edit: And on a bit of a different subject, could you make a compiling tutorial for those who have absolutely no idea of what they are doing with compilers? Trying to compile the last source code for these bug fixes that will stop my game from breaking, but I managed to do is to grapple with VS2010 and mingw for hours without getting any closer to actually doing it. :P
Post by: chooseusername on November 24, 2014, 11:53:59 pm
Edit: And on a bit of a different subject, could you make a compiling tutorial for those who have absolutely no idea of what they are doing with compilers? Trying to compile the last source code for these bug fixes that will stop my game from breaking, but I managed to do is to grapple with VS2010 and mingw for hours without getting any closer to actually doing it. :PThe problem with this is that it's a endless time sink. Ever had a relative that had a "computer problem" and "it'll only take five minutes"? Unfortunately, the possibilities of what might have gone wrong are endless, and you end up spending hours if not days. And so it is, for compiler problems. It would suck whatever enjoyment I have for working on Incursion right out of me. :'(
You are wasting your time with mingw. If you have Visual Studio 2010, it should pretty much just compile, once you follow the instructions in the readme file.
Post by: Felius on November 25, 2014, 12:02:26 am
Ok, just need need a few answers then, for when you have time of course:Edit: And on a bit of a different subject, could you make a compiling tutorial for those who have absolutely no idea of what they are doing with compilers? Trying to compile the last source code for these bug fixes that will stop my game from breaking, but I managed to do is to grapple with VS2010 and mingw for hours without getting any closer to actually doing it. :PThe problem with this is that it's a endless time sink. Ever had a relative that had a "computer problem" and "it'll only take five minutes"? Unfortunately, the possibilities of what might have gone wrong are endless, and you end up spending hours if not days. And so it is, for compiler problems. It would suck whatever enjoyment I have for working on Incursion right out of me. :'(
You are wasting your time with mingw. If you have Visual Studio 2010, it should pretty much just compile, once you follow the instructions in the readme file.
What is the _dependencies folder? Or rather, where it is located? Do I create it in the incursion folder? What's exactly are the libtcod source files? Everything inside the SRC folder? And how do I tell the VS2010 to build libtcod? The project file in the incursion folder doesn't seem to include it as a project?
Post by: chooseusername on November 25, 2014, 01:55:04 am
Ok, just need need a few answers then, for when you have time of course:This should answer all but the last two.
What is the _dependencies folder? Or rather, where it is located? Do I create it in the incursion folder? What's exactly are the libtcod source files? Everything inside the SRC folder? And how do I tell the VS2010 to build libtcod? The project file in the incursion folder doesn't seem to include it as a project?
(http://i.imgur.com/hjkhScy.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hjkhScy)
I've updated the instructions on the bitbucket page, to give solutions to the rest.
Post by: Felius on November 25, 2014, 05:18:19 am
Edit: But no luck. Possibly some alteration in the VS2010 configs that I'm not doing, possibly some environment variables that would need to be changed, possibly some things that would need to commented out, possibly some extra dependency I'm missing (since the only subfolder in my _dependencies folder is the libtcod one, and it isn't alone in yours), but I think I'm giving up trying to compile it and will just wait patiently for next version. :P For how much I'm struggling with this, by the time I manage to figure out how to do it, you'd release a few extra versions already. :P
Post by: chooseusername on November 26, 2014, 02:47:55 am
Thanks! :DEverything in my _dependencies folder except for libtcod is not used. And the only things which are used are the things in the 7z file, which is the pick of the libtcod source code and the prebuilt binaries.
Edit: But no luck. Possibly some alteration in the VS2010 configs that I'm not doing, possibly some environment variables that would need to be changed, possibly some things that would need to commented out, possibly some extra dependency I'm missing (since the only subfolder in my _dependencies folder is the libtcod one, and it isn't alone in yours), but I think I'm giving up trying to compile it and will just wait patiently for next version. :P For how much I'm struggling with this, by the time I manage to figure out how to do it, you'd release a few extra versions already. :P
There were some unnecessary things in the Incursion source code, which may have caused problems. These have been removed.
I've also taken a last pass at updating the compilation instructions. These are now completely up to date, and comprehensive.
Post by: Felius on November 26, 2014, 07:30:19 am
Still getting some errors, but these seem to be related to the need to update the VS2010. Will let it be known as soon as the update finishes (might be nice to add a "update Visual Studio" line for those completely ignorant like me (or worse :P ), but that's details :P ).
And on a different note, your mobile carrier is kinda evil I guess? I'd say I know your pain, but mine doesn't seem to actually measure how much I use, and my 300MB bandwith (after which it'd go to dialup speed instead of 4g) lasts for many, many GB. :P
Edit: And hourra, it worked.
For one
Edit2: Well, not so last question after all: It doesn't seem to generate the Options.dat file. Is that correct and I should just use the previous version file or did I do something wrong when compiling it?
And on another point: It doesn't seem to be save game compatible, is that correct?
Edit3: Well, I think most things are correct now, running the game from inside the Visual Studio instead directly from the .exe, and it seems to be kinda working, so this is probably a bug report, not a compilation issue:
Code: [Select]
Unhandled exception at 0x006d87d6 in Incursion.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000000.Taking me to line 550 in magic.cppCode: [Select]
if (e.EMagic->eval == EA_BLAST || e.EMagic->eval == EA_DRAIN)For the actions being taken: Had just walked into a room, going to check in the save if I can reproduce it. Edit4: Didn't managed to reproduce, but here's the save anyway:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8hg84kuggcg7rh/Wuyondra%20%284%29.7z?dl=0
Had killed the warhorse and walked into the forge room.
Post by: Zireael on November 26, 2014, 02:12:26 pm
As for options.dat, hmm, no idea.
Post by: Felius on November 26, 2014, 02:32:08 pm
Code: [Select]
Error: Assert failed: 'iStrBufDelQueue <
STRING QUEUE SIZE' in file e:\roguelike\incu
rsion\rmtew-incursion-roguelike-744341f5251c\serc\
base.cpp, line 68.
While fighting a bunch of zombies, with a break, exit and continue options. Break took me to the VS2010 window, specifically to line 639 of Wibtcod.cpp
Code: [Select]
BREAKOUT;Reloading haven't managed to reproduce it. Continue option didn't do anything in this case.
In my experience, when you update/recompile, you have to start a new game. No savegame compatibility across versions.Unless there's some issue I'm missing (which is not unlikely at all), my Y14 character seems to be functioning normally in the compiled "latest" version.
Edit:
On a different matter, does anyone know of a good way to train strength with a drow rogue character? I've been trying to do adventuring while encumbered, as mentioned in an old wiki, but that doesn't seem to increase my training progress any.
And any ideas of what what abuses strength? Even when I manage to get the training progress a bit up, it seems to fall down rather quickly.
Edit2: While I haven't managed to purposefully reproduce it, the line 550 bug described a couple posts before seem to happen every so often in the game, without any particularly apparent reason, or at least nothing I'm doing.
Edit3: And for an easier to check bug now, with an attached save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o8d6n0nh6q38jnv/Wuyondra%20%2823%29.7z?dl=0
The lighting bolt inherent Sabine grants at divine favor level 3 seems to be taking in account the sum of the favor levels of the character of all the gods when calculating damage, not merely Sabine's. My character with Sabine favor 4, Xel favor 5 and Zurvash favor 3 is doing 12d6+2 damage with said inherent spell.
Post by: chooseusername on November 26, 2014, 07:59:01 pm
In my experience, when you update/recompile, you have to start a new game. No savegame compatibility across versions.The options.dat text is noise.
As for options.dat, hmm, no idea.
The savegame compatibility is release version specific. So, if you have a save game from Y13 you cannot play it with Y14. You can of course make it work by editing the binary file, and bumping the version, but the risk is that some game data structure has changed. So if someone does this, and observes problems, it cannot be certain that the problem is not a game data structure change.
In theory, it should be possible for me to allow save game usage over multiple game release versions, but that would require analysing all changes to work out whether the save games should be made invalid in each new release.
Post by: chooseusername on November 26, 2014, 08:09:16 pm
Hmm, I was trying to compile from the vcxproj instead of the sln. Furthermore, I was trying to compile from the 66201ed which seemed to die by trying to find some files that weren't present (possibly the unused paths). Using Visual C++ 2010 Express.To me, it is as relevant to Incursion, as a section on updating Windows.
Still getting some errors, but these seem to be related to the need to update the VS2010. Will let it be known as soon as the update finishes (might be nice to add a "update Visual Studio" line for those completely ignorant like me (or worse :P ), but that's details :P ).
For oneThe instructions on the project page on bitbucket are pretty much definitive, telling you what to do. What they probably don't say, and which you won't know if you aren't experienced with Visual Studio, is that it is only sufficient for running within Visual Studio. I can add that.lastquestion: Do I take everything out of the debug folder and put it in the main folder, just the Incursion.exe, or do I copy the dlls to the debug folder?
Edit3: Well, I think most things are correct now, running the game from inside the Visual Studio instead directly from the .exe, and it seems to be kinda working, so this is probably a bug report, not a compilation issue:I can do nothing with this, unless there's a reproduction case.Code: [Select]Unhandled exception at 0x006d87d6 in Incursion.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000000.Taking me to line 550 in magic.cppCode: [Select]if (e.EMagic->eval == EA_BLAST || e.EMagic->eval == EA_DRAIN)For the actions being taken: Had just walked into a room, going to check in the save if I can reproduce it.
Edit4: Didn't managed to reproduce, but here's the save anyway:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8hg84kuggcg7rh/Wuyondra%20%284%29.7z?dl=0
Had killed the warhorse and walked into the forge room.
Post by: Felius on November 27, 2014, 06:34:35 am
I can do nothing with this, unless there's a reproduction case.I think it's a bug in some spell one of the npcs is casting somewhere in the map, but since the game crashes when he does, I'm having difficulty to identify which npc and which spell. If normal play doesn't manage to zero on it by the week after the next, I'll try extensive monster by monster testing with the wizard mode since I'll have much more free time to do so.
Post by: chooseusername on November 27, 2014, 02:32:45 pm
I think it's a bug in some spell one of the npcs is casting somewhere in the map, but since the game crashes when he does, I'm having difficulty to identify which npc and which spell. If normal play doesn't manage to zero on it by the week after the next, I'll try extensive monster by monster testing with the wizard mode since I'll have much more free time to do so.I don't think it's worth your time. Better would be to save regularly through normal gameplay, and when it happens see if it can be reproduced quickly with the last save.
Post by: Felius on November 27, 2014, 03:48:21 pm
Already do that. :P It does happen every so often, but it's never immediately reproducible, which is what led me to believe it's one of the npcs casting some spell, since it's far from guaranteed that they will do the same things and get the same rolls once you reload the last save.I think it's a bug in some spell one of the npcs is casting somewhere in the map, but since the game crashes when he does, I'm having difficulty to identify which npc and which spell. If normal play doesn't manage to zero on it by the week after the next, I'll try extensive monster by monster testing with the wizard mode since I'll have much more free time to do so.I don't think it's worth your time. Better would be to save regularly through normal gameplay, and when it happens see if it can be reproduced quickly with the last save.
Post by: chooseusername on November 28, 2014, 02:34:52 pm
I've just made a check-in which should identify what magic is being invoked and what creature.Already do that. :P It does happen every so often, but it's never immediately reproducible, which is what led me to believe it's one of the npcs casting some spell, since it's far from guaranteed that they will do the same things and get the same rolls once you reload the last save.I think it's a bug in some spell one of the npcs is casting somewhere in the map, but since the game crashes when he does, I'm having difficulty to identify which npc and which spell. If normal play doesn't manage to zero on it by the week after the next, I'll try extensive monster by monster testing with the wizard mode since I'll have much more free time to do so.I don't think it's worth your time. Better would be to save regularly through normal gameplay, and when it happens see if it can be reproduced quickly with the last save.
Code: [Select]
if ((e.isSpell || (e.isItem && e.EItem->isType(T_SCROLL))) && e.EMagic == NULL)
Error("Crash imminent, id=%l, effect='%s', num=%d, actor='%s'", e.EActor->myHandle, NAME(e.eID), e.efNum, e.EActor->Name());
Post by: Felius on November 29, 2014, 12:18:02 pm
I've just made a check-in which should identify what magic is being invoked and what creature.Sadly, I can't really say I would know how to use this code. On the other hand, on got a save in which, while not perfectly reproducible, getting into a fight with the dwarf barbarian to the north while in the line of sight (but not the line of fire) of the mobs in the room seem to trigger the crash fairly often, even if not every time.Code: [Select]if ((e.isSpell || (e.isItem && e.EItem->isType(T_SCROLL))) && e.EMagic == NULL)
Error("Crash imminent, id=%l, effect='%s', num=%d, actor='%s'", e.EActor->myHandle, NAME(e.eID), e.efNum, e.EActor->Name());
The file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mg4l2f9vkh24mes/Laele%20%2812%29.7z?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on November 29, 2014, 02:03:48 pm
Sadly, I can't really say I would know how to use this code. On the other hand, on got a save in which, while not perfectly reproducible, getting into a fight with the dwarf barbarian to the north while in the line of sight (but not the line of fire) of the mobs in the room seem to trigger the crash fairly often, even if not every time.I'll take a look. Thanks for your efforts! :)
The file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mg4l2f9vkh24mes/Laele%20%2812%29.7z?dl=0
In theory that code would tell you what monster is the problem, what magic they're doing, if you play with it compiled in and the crash were to occur.
Post by: Felius on November 30, 2014, 07:05:46 am
In theory that code would tell you what monster is the problem, what magic they're doing, if you play with it compiled in and the crash were to occur.Main problem is that I have no idea where I would add the code. :P
Edit: And on yet another bug report, this time back to gold issues: That whenever you spend currency, it uses all of your coins is already known. What is apparently new is that it happens to npc vendors when you sell stuff to them.
For some context: Roark, in town, buys +3 or better magical weapons and armor from your character if you have at least diplomacy 12. I sold him a quarterstaff +3, which he offered me about 800 gold for. Once I accepted and descended back into the dungeon, my gold had increased around 90000 instead.
For reference, here's the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzf5fzcbcu63j9g/Laele%20%2816%29.7z?dl=0
Just go up to the store and sell the staff or the pickaxe.
Edit: And for something different this time, a minor suggestion (or at least I think it's minor):
Very minor favor increase with Asherath from his followers just gaining XP, no matter the source. As it currently stands it feels nearly impossible to increase favor with him unless you play in a nearly suicidal manner.
Edit2: And on a wizard mode bug report: Trying to use "Become a divine champion" seems to be heavily bugged, as using it with most of the gods seems to make the favor go heavily in the negative. Have tested it with newly created characters and old characters, the only factor that seems to influence what it actually do is the divine favor the character already have, both with the god in question and the rest of the pantheon. It makes some of the testing rather problematic.
Edit3: On the process of testing the previous bug, managed to test a different thing I had reported as a bug previously, and remove it from the list: Sabine's Lightning bolt does not take into account the combined favor levels of all the gods. What it does is set the caster level of said innate spell as three times the player's favor level with Sabine. So, I retract the bug report, but I do put it forward as completely overpowered, since damage is [caster level]d6 for 17 mana in a 7 square beam, with a pretty high reflex save for half (which still keeps gives it a significantly high damage potential).
Post by: chooseusername on November 30, 2014, 04:47:36 pm
Main problem is that I have no idea where I would add the code. :PIt's already checked in.
Quote
Edit: And on yet another bug report, this time back to gold issues: That whenever you spend currency, it uses all of your coins is already known. What is apparently new is that it happens to npc vendors when you sell stuff to them.Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/192/).
Post by: chooseusername on November 30, 2014, 07:40:27 pm
Sadly, I can't really say I would know how to use this code. On the other hand, on got a save in which, while not perfectly reproducible, getting into a fight with the dwarf barbarian to the north while in the line of sight (but not the line of fire) of the mobs in the room seem to trigger the crash fairly often, even if not every time.Thanks for the reproduction case, fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/193/).
Post by: Felius on November 30, 2014, 08:17:32 pm
First: When compiling the resources after compiling the debug build, it accuses to be unresolved references, specifically: Dryad, Snow Angel.
Is that normal? Or have I done something wrong?
Nevermind, saw the that game made it's own Options.dat now. Was having a crash when trying to do it previously, but I'm guessing it was some issue with the resource compiling and/or some other non-related issue on my end.
Post by: chooseusername on November 30, 2014, 10:17:15 pm
Couple questions:Normal. They're probably unimplemented, and referenced in some spawning situation. I think an older crash bug was related to this, but I've vetted these two and they're probably on some list that is never used.
First: When compiling the resources after compiling the debug build, it accuses to be unresolved references, specifically: Dryad, Snow Angel.
Is that normal? Or have I done something wrong?No idea! :-)Secondly, back on the Options.dat: How do I generate a fresh new Options.dat? Or is my only option to grab an already existing one from a previous compiled version?
Nevermind, saw the that game made it's own Options.dat now. Was having a crash when trying to do it previously, but I'm guessing it was some issue with the resource compiling and/or some other non-related issue on my end.
Post by: Felius on December 01, 2014, 06:58:07 pm
(http://imageshack.com/a/img673/6176/dTntpF.png)
And here's a save just after the fact:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a86jyoywxvp1qw4/Amadiel.7z?dl=0
Edit: Image was apparently broken. Fixed now I think.
Post by: chooseusername on December 01, 2014, 09:46:50 pm
On a low priority bug (or something went wrong on my build). Tried to use holy water on a zombie:So.. no throwing when stuck? Or is there something else?
Post by: 0x517A5D on December 01, 2014, 10:15:57 pm
I see screen corruption in the lines beginning with Kobold zombie's Damage:On a low priority bug (or something went wrong on my build). Tried to use holy water on a zombie:So.. no throwing when stuck? Or is there something else?
Post by: Felius on December 01, 2014, 10:55:06 pm
Ehh, that too, but fixed the image now for the screen corruption. o.OOn a low priority bug (or something went wrong on my build). Tried to use holy water on a zombie:So.. no throwing when stuck? Or is there something else?
And on a semi-related question for anyone who knows the answer: Is there a way to use strength instead of escape artist to get out of entanglements? It's rather annoying for heavy armor users to simply get stuck for far too long if they get hit with said effect.
Edit: Not entirely sure if it's a bug or not, but the moment my mount falls in this (https://www.dropbox.com/s/pckjqtolri764n3/Amadiel%20%2810%29.7z?dl=0) save (like, say, trying to move in that grease), it seems to snap, throw me off and turn on me.
Post by: chooseusername on December 02, 2014, 08:18:10 pm
On a low priority bug (or something went wrong on my build). Tried to use holy water on a zombie:Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/179/). This was a high priority bug which caused crashes in some circumstances, but I was unable to reproduce it until now. Throwing holy water at a zombie was a consistent reproduction case.
Edit: Image was apparently broken. Fixed now I think.
This was a long term legacy bug for Incursion BTW from before my time.
Thanks again!
Post by: chooseusername on December 03, 2014, 01:41:40 am
And on a semi-related question for anyone who knows the answer: Is there a way to use strength instead of escape artist to get out of entanglements? It's rather annoying for heavy armor users to simply get stuck for far too long if they get hit with said effect.Not that I can tell. You may be able to use 'universal solvent' should you find some, but I doubt it works.
Post by: Felius on December 03, 2014, 08:07:22 am
Could swear there was an option to try to brute force breaking free, specially given the example of what trains strength in the manual. In this case, a suggestion: Adding a strength option to breaking free, removing the armor penalties to escape artist, at least for some of the cases and/or adding escape artist to all classes, or at least allow it to get some points.And on a semi-related question for anyone who knows the answer: Is there a way to use strength instead of escape artist to get out of entanglements? It's rather annoying for heavy armor users to simply get stuck for far too long if they get hit with said effect.Not that I can tell. You may be able to use 'universal solvent' should you find some, but I doubt it works.
Right now if you are a heavy armor character you either get freedom of movement ASAP or your only options when getting entangled with nearby enemies are teleportation (like potions of dimension door. Kinda of a bug to be be able to quaff them while entangled), praying for assistance and hoping your god helps you in the manner you need, or laying down and dying.
Using the paladin as an example, with -13 armor penalty between shield and armor (and it's not even as high as it could be really. I'm fairly sure I was using a medium armor, or at least something on the light end of the heavy armors), and no escape artists rank, not even a natural 20 will get him out an entangle with a DC of 14. And while he stop using the shield, it's not possible to do the same with the armor itself in the middle of combat, which means that it's pretty much a save or lose for entangles.
Worse yet, while the bags are not that common and have a finite duration, a lot of monsters use bolas, and, despite their reflex DC being so low, it only takes a failed single one for you to be stuck without ever being able to get out due to your worse than non existent escape artist skill. :P
Shows what I know. Thought it was merely a bug with the text. ^^On a low priority bug (or something went wrong on my build). Tried to use holy water on a zombie:Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/179/). This was a high priority bug which caused crashes in some circumstances, but I was unable to reproduce it until now. Throwing holy water at a zombie was a consistent reproduction case.
Edit: Image was apparently broken. Fixed now I think.
This was a long term legacy bug for Incursion BTW from before my time.
Thanks again!
Also, btw, have you checked the mount issue?
Post by: Felius on December 03, 2014, 09:02:25 am
New build seems to have broken the stat modifiers, no matter the character you make. Only very a handful of derived characteristics avoided it. Screenshot of the character sheet for reference:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img633/1820/KDNTQe.png)
Post by: chooseusername on December 07, 2014, 01:19:46 am
Double post because this is rather critical:Minor typo, should be fixed.
New build seems to have broken the stat modifiers, no matter the character you make. Only very a handful of derived characteristics avoided it. Screenshot of the character sheet for reference:
Post by: Felius on December 07, 2014, 02:32:23 pm
Still have some issues with stats. Most penalties, including natural and morale penalties doesn't seem to be actually accounted, magical bonuses aren't either, and more. Here's a wizard mode (to grab a few items) save that exemplifies what I'm saying: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdae5aq0ev0z8ne/Balderk.7z?dl=0Double post because this is rather critical:Minor typo, should be fixed.
New build seems to have broken the stat modifiers, no matter the character you make. Only very a handful of derived characteristics avoided it. Screenshot of the character sheet for reference:
Post by: chooseusername on December 07, 2014, 05:16:12 pm
Post by: Felius on December 07, 2014, 06:32:39 pm
Can you direct me to specific things to look at?The character stats, specifically as is seen here:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img661/4650/jCF5uN.png)
Natural penalties and morale penalties are not being taken in account when calculating the actual stat from the base, nor are magical bonuses (and penalties I assume).
Edit: There also seems to be a few issues with some non primary stats as well, such as parry modifier of your weapon not properly being added to defense even with the expertise feat. You can see it here:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img907/416/xry9Zy.png)
This being from another character that I went with with a spiked chain spec.
Post by: chooseusername on December 08, 2014, 12:21:56 am
Post by: Felius on December 08, 2014, 12:10:17 pm
Fixed, thanks again.Not a problem, it's me who should thank you for the immediate fixes. :)
On a side note, any news on hand crossbow bolts?
Edit: On a suggestion: Giving Animal Empathy's pacify ability XP gain similar of that of Diplomacy's quell.
Post by: chooseusername on December 08, 2014, 01:50:33 pm
On a side note, any news on hand crossbow bolts?What about them? Got a link to a post or something?
Edit: On a suggestion: Giving Animal Empathy's pacify ability XP gain similar of that of Diplomacy's quell.Not sure what to do with these types of suggestions. To act on them requires a better insight into balancing than what I currently have.
Post by: Felius on December 08, 2014, 02:37:28 pm
What about them? Got a link to a post or something?I had mentioned them before I think. They are not available for crafting and more than a bit rare in the dungeon itself, meaning drow characters that start with them have to conserve their shots to a rather unhealthy degree, even considering the possibility of recovering at least some of the fired bolts.
Not sure what to do with these types of suggestions. To act on them requires a better insight into balancing than what I currently have.I get what you mean. It's just that playing Druids is a bit extra-painful if you are trying to keep animal killing to a minimum, mostly because pacifying them doesn't give you any XP at all.
Post by: Kagus on December 08, 2014, 02:45:24 pm
Still though, since diplomatic quelling does grant XP, it would make sense for Empathy to do so as well. I'm more concerned about whether or not pacified animals still go apeshit (ho ho ho) on each other and your animal companion. Used to be there was something still in there where they wouldn't recognize each other as allies and then just start attacking each other. If you'd pulled the animals over to your side, you'd also get massive loads of stat training by resolving their "disputes" several times a turn.
Post by: Felius on December 08, 2014, 07:53:41 pm
Here's the save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfsht7x45uf8qmi/Una_2.7z?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on December 09, 2014, 01:34:33 pm
And bug report time again. Crash upon praying for aid, probably related to the god trying to replace spell books since VS2010 took me to line 935 of prayer.cppFixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/194/).
Here's the save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfsht7x45uf8qmi/Una_2.7z?dl=0
Post by: Felius on December 13, 2014, 06:23:45 pm
Post by: Frumple on December 13, 2014, 09:04:17 pm
Post by: Felius on December 13, 2014, 10:25:53 pm
Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.
Here's the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa0pm6n0cz9403p/Velanore%20%288%29.7z?dl=0
Edit: On a side note, not something for the current versions, but just to keep in mind for when you shift focus on starting to alter gameplay: Gaining and losing favor with the gods need a severe rework. Some gods you might as well be sweating favor with how fast and easy it is to get it (Mara comes to mind, as well Hesani, as long as you don't have him as the god you actually worship), while others give favor like a miser gives money (Asherath, why are you such a bastard?).
Furthermore, but even a more distant issue, once the game grows, there needs to be a rework in several of the gods requirements. For example, Xel can't be demanding live sacrifices in its altar everyday if a character simply can't reach the altar in time during an overworld trip. Even with Hallow, that still costs 750xp to use. Other gods have similar issues as well.
Post by: chooseusername on December 14, 2014, 12:21:49 am
And gotta a bug to report.When the games locked up and you're running under the debugger, select break option from the debugging menu. It will suspend the game for introspection. Then look for a window or tab called "call stack". Look at it, select all the rows, copy and paste them. It will give the state of the program, what lines it is at in the different functions. The save game still helps for more dynamic recreation of the program, but the call stack gives a instant insight into where the code is, when there is a program.
Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.
Post by: Zireael on December 14, 2014, 04:47:43 am
Mm... it's something to do with the transfer to... lbtcod? Or whatever it was. Pre-shift (.H4, etc.) rolls are significantly faster. Couldn't give a guess as to the why of it, though.
The transfer was necessary because Allegro had a number of bugs :(
Post by: Felius on December 14, 2014, 07:43:06 am
Here:And gotta a bug to report.When the games locked up and you're running under the debugger, select break option from the debugging menu. It will suspend the game for introspection. Then look for a window or tab called "call stack". Look at it, select all the rows, copy and paste them. It will give the state of the program, what lines it is at in the different functions. The save game still helps for more dynamic recreation of the program, but the call stack gives a instant insight into where the code is, when there is a program.
Game seems to get stuck like if it was on an infinite loop, triggered apparently by trying to counter the spells of, I guess one or more of the undead around, when we move south near a group of them. Countering every spell after a while triggers said loop-like freeze.
Code: [Select]
> Incursion.exe!NArray<long,1000,10>::operator[](long index) Line 53 + 0x1d bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Map::VisionThing(short pn, Creature * c, bool do_clear) Line 358 + 0x51 bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Player::CalcVision() Line 261 C++
Incursion.exe!TextTerm::ShowMap() Line 911 C++
Incursion.exe!Map::Update(short x, short y) Line 751 + 0x3e bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Map::VUpdate(short x, short y) Line 732 C++
Incursion.exe!Creature::StatiOn(Status s) Line 631 C++
Incursion.exe!Thing::GainTempStati(short n, Thing * t, short Duration, char Cause, short Val, short Mag, unsigned long eID, char clev) Line 201 + 0x3a bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Thing::GainPermStati(short n, Thing * t, char Cause, short Val, short Mag, unsigned long eID, char clev) Line 232 C++
Incursion.exe!Creature::Hide(EventInfo & e) Line 2777 C++
Incursion.exe!Creature::Event(EventInfo & e) Line 847 + 0x16 bytes C++
Incursion.exe!ThrowTo(EventInfo & e, Object * t) Line 284 + 0xc bytes C++
Incursion.exe!ThrowEvent(EventInfo & e) Line 243 + 0x2b bytes C++
Incursion.exe!RealThrow(EventInfo & e) Line 343 + 0x9 bytes C++
Incursion.exe!ThrowVal(short Ev, short n, Object * p1, Object * p2, Object * p3, Object * p4) Line 476 + 0x18 bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Monster::ChooseAction() Line 1132 + 0x1f bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Game::Play() Line 292 + 0x12 bytes C++
Incursion.exe!Game::StartMenu() Line 2181 C++
Incursion.exe!main(int argc, char * * argv) Line 395 C++
Incursion.exe!__tmainCRTStartup() Line 278 + 0x19 bytes C
Incursion.exe!mainCRTStartup() Line 189 C
kernel32.dll!76ad338a()
[Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for kernel32.dll]
ntdll.dll!777c9f72()
ntdll.dll!777c9f45()
Incursion.exe!ResourceHasFlag(unsigned long xID, short fl) Line 771 + 0x1b bytes C++
On a directly related note: Further in-game testing seems to indicate it's related to counter spelling, setting it to never bypass the issue, but even if it's set to ask, as long as you counter at least one, even if you answer no to every request to counter afterwards it still seems to get stuck into a loop until the game freezes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:
Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.
For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.
Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And since I seem to be rather talkative today, on a quick suggestion mostly related to mounted combat focused paladins: Prone enemies: Mounted charges tend to knock down your opponents, and paladins are pretty much blocked from attacking such save against rather rare exception of enemies. As such, it'd be interested to allow at least some leeway on such instead, even if just relaxing the chivalry issue exclusively on the matter of prone opponents, but maybe even keeping trip attacks as not allowed.
Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on December 15, 2014, 01:08:34 am
On a directly related note: Further in-game testing seems to indicate it's related to counter spelling, setting it to never bypass the issue, but even if it's set to ask, as long as you counter at least one, even if you answer no to every request to counter afterwards it still seems to get stuck into a loop until the game freezes.Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/196/)
And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:Well, look at it this way. When you try and turn undead and they are destroyed, you've asked the god to do it, and they did. When you kill an undead, you are saying you know better than the god. Of course, that's unhelpful sophistry.
Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.
For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.
Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.
I'll try and reproduce, and see what I find.
And since I seem to be rather talkative today, on a quick suggestion mostly related to mounted combat focused paladins: Prone enemies: Mounted charges tend to knock down your opponents, and paladins are pretty much blocked from attacking such save against rather rare exception of enemies. As such, it'd be interested to allow at least some leeway on such instead, even if just relaxing the chivalry issue exclusively on the matter of prone opponents, but maybe even keeping trip attacks as not allowed.Sounds reasonable (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/197/).
Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:Will take a look.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0
Post by: Felius on December 15, 2014, 01:05:36 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzt74uwd6uoo7ni/Maryam.7z?dl=0
Edit: Screen showcasing the issue:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/8827/ffrfSD.png)
And on an unrelated note, a "not quite a bug" to report: How many poison doses it take to poison a given stack of missiles: It scales a bit weirdly, or to be more specific, the first "bracket" is bigger than the others. While this still need further testing for the exact behavior, from what I've noticed so far it goes something like that:
1-19: 1 dose.
20-29: 2 doses.
30-39(?): 3 doses.
It creates a rather "gamey" and laborious behavior when poisoning missile stacks to make the most economical use of your poison, with a little bit of variability created by the skill rolls.
And on a related note about game balance: Poison on melee or returning thrown weapons is far less economical than poison on ammo. With ammo stacks, the projectiles have each the same number of uses (approximately if you set them to stack) that you'd give a melee weapon with the same poison and skill roll to apply it, giving each dose of poison 10 to 19 times more "uses", so to speak, as long as the stack have at least 10 projectiles in it.
Post by: chooseusername on December 15, 2014, 08:16:45 pm
And on an unrelated bug report, bug that still uses the same save:Bug report (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/198/).
Alignment and god issues with merciless attacks and the like: It really shouldn't apply to mindless, specially mindless abominations like zombies and other mindless undead. For example, if an undead survives the turning and you proceed to kill them and/or use turn again to finish them off (possible in cases of multiple enemies), the game acts as if this is an evil and chaotic act for attacking fleeing opponents. I'm guessing it's due to how zombies and skeletones are actually templates over other creatures that might be otherwise sapient, but it does create quite some trouble for a good character, specially clerics and paladins, who would theoretically focus on cleansing the world from the walking dead.
For reproduction, on the room the character is in in the save I submitted for the counter-spell issue, just use turn undead once and it should kill most, but leave at least one zombie alive. Then using turn undead again (or two times at most, if the rolls are unlucky), should destroy it and cause the character to feel guilty and Xavias angry with the character.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Correction, the undead in question that is tending to survive the first turning is a crypt thing, not a mindless skeleton, so that's probably the issue. On the other hand, I do find troubling lore wise how so many undead are neutral and protected by chivalry while all the good gods offer the ability to downright blast them to bits by turning, with no ability to discriminate between the ones you want to turn and the ones you want to just kill.
Which also calls one thing to mind: It could be interesting if on the issue of attacking fleeing enemies for the purpose of alignment and angering most good gods (Erich aside probably) to differentiate from natural fear from magically created fear. The latter probably shouldn't eliminate them from the valid target list.
Quote
If you turn undead, they may become panicked, they may get damaged or get destroyed. If you turn undead who have become panicked, then it is the same as attacking a fleeing sapient. Logic dictates that killing an undead you have turned and made panicky, should be okay.
Add to the mix that when you turn undead, it does a poll of whats around and assays if the action may be alignment changing, and asks the player if they are sure. The checks used in this poll differ from those used in the damage logic.
Post by: chooseusername on December 15, 2014, 08:58:15 pm
And for another bug report, this time one less critical, some combinations of the priest class seems to screw up the maximum ranks allowed of some skills. Example in question:Can you tell me exactly what should be different, as you see it?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzt74uwd6uoo7ni/Maryam.7z?dl=0
Edit: Screen showcasing the issue:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img538/8827/ffrfSD.png)
And on an unrelated note, a "not quite a bug" to report: How many poison doses it take to poison a given stack of missiles: It scales a bit weirdly, or to be more specific, the first "bracket" is bigger than the others. While this still need further testing for the exact behavior, from what I've noticed so far it goes something like that:Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/199/).
1-19: 1 dose.
20-29: 2 doses.
30-39(?): 3 doses.
It creates a rather "gamey" and laborious behavior when poisoning missile stacks to make the most economical use of your poison, with a little bit of variability created by the skill rolls.
And on a related note about game balance: Poison on melee or returning thrown weapons is far less economical than poison on ammo. With ammo stacks, the projectiles have each the same number of uses (approximately if you set them to stack) that you'd give a melee weapon with the same poison and skill roll to apply it, giving each dose of poison 10 to 19 times more "uses", so to speak, as long as the stack have at least 10 projectiles in it.Well, the way I see it, with projectiles you'd dip them 10 at a time as a bunch - the tips. It would be awkward to do the same with melee weapons. Not too concerned about this.
Post by: Felius on December 15, 2014, 09:03:47 pm
Can you tell me exactly what should be different, as you see it?Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.
Well, the way I see it, with projectiles you'd dip them 10 at a time as a bunch - the tips. It would be awkward to do the same with melee weapons. Not too concerned about this.It's not a crippling problem, specially if you don't mind using different poisons for your weapons, given how many vials you find when killing Kobolds and the like, but nonetheless, at least if you are trying use some specific poison it does get expensive. Not to mention that with the current usage, your blade will run out of poison far before you actually go for the second enemy.
From an in-game logic, while dipping or the like would be easier with multiple projectiles indeed, the amount of poison in each "dose" is about the same anyway. Again, it's not a crippling issue in any way, but it's a bit annoying for characters trying to have a greater focus on poison usage.
Post by: chooseusername on December 15, 2014, 10:50:59 pm
Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.Read the domain focus feat. It explains both cases.
Post by: chooseusername on December 15, 2014, 11:49:10 pm
Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:This is because of the following code:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0
Code: [Select]
(e.EVictim->HasStati(PARALYSIS,PARA_HELD) && !(max(SkillLevel(SK_CONCENT),SkillLevel(SK_ESCAPE_ART)) >= 15)) ||
The type of paralysis is correct, but the level of the actor's concentration skill is 2 and the level of the actor's escape artist skill is 15. So the ability to coup de gras fails.This is actually buggy. What it should be is a match to the ability of the victim to break the paralysis, which would be the skill levels checked on the victim.
Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/201/).
Post by: chooseusername on December 16, 2014, 01:22:09 am
After creating a number of characters there's one thing I've been wondering: Why does the random stat rolling take so long? A handful of random numbers, even with a bunch of attached conditions shouldn't take that long if my understanding is correct.Not sure. Best I can figure Allegro wasn't incorporating all of the roll animation delays that were asked for, so when libtcod came in, what was asked for was given and it was as slow as it was meant to be. I've hard coded the animation duration for each attribute to 0.5 seconds, let me know if you think it should be longer.
Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/202/attribute-roll-animation-takes-a-strangely)
Post by: Felius on December 16, 2014, 06:08:25 am
Nice! But part of the problem was also that they couldn't also be normally attacked either, or at least it seemed so.Edit: And for a completely different bug report: Enemies that get paralyzed but due to some characteristic don't count as "helpless" can't be targeted for normal attacks. Here's a save, just try to attack the paladin to the immediate south:This is because of the following code:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cm9jmkyb93ki0/Charinida.7z?dl=0Code: [Select](e.EVictim->HasStati(PARALYSIS,PARA_HELD) && !(max(SkillLevel(SK_CONCENT),SkillLevel(SK_ESCAPE_ART)) >= 15)) ||The type of paralysis is correct, but the level of the actor's concentration skill is 2 and the level of the actor's escape artist skill is 15. So the ability to coup de gras fails.
This is actually buggy. What it should be is a match to the ability of the victim to break the paralysis, which would be the skill levels checked on the victim.
Fixed (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/201/).
Post by: Felius on December 16, 2014, 06:30:43 am
But didn't have said feat either. Still, checked the description both of the feat and of the domains, don't see why I would be able to put twice as much skill points in craft and nearly so in decipher script. Here's the descriptions:Craft 4, Decipher Script 3. Mind you, that's during the character creation, that is, a level 1 character, not during a level up.Read the domain focus feat. It explains both cases.
(http://imageshack.com/a/img540/4940/9z3fCG.png)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img661/9776/bc0LYa.png)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
And on something I'm pretty sure is a bug but I'm not absolutely 100% sure:
On the attached save, the character seems to have gotten a permanent -2 conditional modifier to a number of statistics, including all saves and the attack ability, but I can't find a reason for it to have so. I've dropped everything but the weapon I'm wielding, tried to cancel everything that could be cancelled, I've used wizard mode to get a potion of remove curse, checked all possible conditions I have, tried to see if it was something related to the area I was in, among a couple minor others.
Here's the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebgf8gypb9t2s5w/Jhaelryna.7z?dl=0
Post by: chooseusername on December 16, 2014, 02:51:57 pm
But didn't have said feat either. Still, checked the description both of the feat and of the domains, don't see why I would be able to put twice as much skill points in craft and nearly so in decipher script. Here's the descriptions:Ok it's if you have the Domains feat or ability, you get it's level as a bonus to the max ranks for all abilities or whatever relating to your selected domains. It's confusing. But in your case you have Domains, and it's level is 1, so that bumps the max rank up to the next rung.
And on something I'm pretty sure is a bug but I'm not absolutely 100% sure:Go to wizard mode, and examine player data. Scroll down through the Stati listing, and there are two ADJUST CIRC entries of -1 from Aid and a dwarf and hill orc respectively. This looks legitimate.
On the attached save, the character seems to have gotten a permanent -2 conditional modifier to a number of statistics, including all saves and the attack ability, but I can't find a reason for it to have so. I've dropped everything but the weapon I'm wielding, tried to cancel everything that could be cancelled, I've used wizard mode to get a potion of remove curse, checked all possible conditions I have, tried to see if it was something related to the area I was in, among a couple minor others.
Post by: Felius on December 16, 2014, 03:46:35 pm
Go to wizard mode, and examine player data. Scroll down through the Stati listing, and there are two ADJUST CIRC entries of -1 from Aid and a dwarf and hill orc respectively. This looks legitimate.Found it. Is it supposed to be permanent though? It doesn't seem to be reducing no matter what I do or how much time I let pass.
Post by: chooseusername on December 16, 2014, 07:13:11 pm
I hoped you'd know what it was from. Is it possible you disguised yourself as both a dwarf and a hill orc at some time? That's the closest SS_MISC -1 A_AID modifier I can find in the code.Go to wizard mode, and examine player data. Scroll down through the Stati listing, and there are two ADJUST CIRC entries of -1 from Aid and a dwarf and hill orc respectively. This looks legitimate.Found it. Is it supposed to be permanent though? It doesn't seem to be reducing no matter what I do or how much time I let pass.
Post by: Felius on December 16, 2014, 07:30:02 pm
Actually, yes. Disguised myself as a dwarf to trick a dwarf into Xel's altar, then changed disguise to an orc to consider grabbing another guy without dropping the previous disguise first. Thought the character would do that automatically, but guess I was wrong.I hoped you'd know what it was from. Is it possible you disguised yourself as both a dwarf and a hill orc at some time? That's the closest SS_MISC -1 A_AID modifier I can find in the code.Go to wizard mode, and examine player data. Scroll down through the Stati listing, and there are two ADJUST CIRC entries of -1 from Aid and a dwarf and hill orc respectively. This looks legitimate.Found it. Is it supposed to be permanent though? It doesn't seem to be reducing no matter what I do or how much time I let pass.
Post by: chooseusername on December 16, 2014, 07:57:11 pm
Actually, yes. Disguised myself as a dwarf to trick a dwarf into Xel's altar, then changed disguise to an orc to consider grabbing another guy without dropping the previous disguise first. Thought the character would do that automatically, but guess I was wrong.How do you drop a disguise? Only way I can find is to bring up the disguise menu again, which does it automatically. Is there another way? In any case, this is clearly a bug in disguise removal.
Post by: Felius on December 16, 2014, 08:14:45 pm
I'm fairly sure it's possible to do so with the "x" menu, but lemme check a couple things first.Actually, yes. Disguised myself as a dwarf to trick a dwarf into Xel's altar, then changed disguise to an orc to consider grabbing another guy without dropping the previous disguise first. Thought the character would do that automatically, but guess I was wrong.How do you drop a disguise? Only way I can find is to bring up the disguise menu again, which does it automatically. Is there another way? In any case, this is clearly a bug in disguise removal.
Edit, checked: Yes, you can drop your disguise by opening the "x" menu. Secondly, the disguise penalties, or at least the ones in the 10-14 bracket, are apparently coming over as permanent, no way to lose them once they were acquired.
Edit2: On a only tangentially related request: Is there any synergy list for skills? Or any plans for making one? It'd be nice to plan your characters if you knew what skills positively affect each other.
Post by: chooseusername on December 16, 2014, 10:13:30 pm
Edit2: On a only tangentially related request: Is there any synergy list for skills? Or any plans for making one? It'd be nice to plan your characters if you knew what skills positively affect each other.No. The reason for half these bugs we are dealing with is the sheer complexity of the source code. Half of the stuff I come across is opaque and I wouldn't realise it was having the effect it was on the player, until someone pointed it out.
In an ideal world, these things would be cleaned up, but it's just.. everything. So we are stuck with the complexity. Maybe over time a slow procedural clean-up can be done, but a rewrite would just be insane.
Post by: Felius on December 17, 2014, 07:53:23 am
I understand. Oh well, I'll try to get a manually generated synergy list when I have the time.Edit2: On a only tangentially related request: Is there any synergy list for skills? Or any plans for making one? It'd be nice to plan your characters if you knew what skills positively affect each other.No. The reason for half these bugs we are dealing with is the sheer complexity of the source code. Half of the stuff I come across is opaque and I wouldn't realise it was having the effect it was on the player, until someone pointed it out.
In an ideal world, these things would be cleaned up, but it's just.. everything. So we are stuck with the complexity. Maybe over time a slow procedural clean-up can be done, but a rewrite would just be insane.
Post by: IcyTea31 on December 22, 2014, 02:19:49 am
Post by: Zireael on December 22, 2014, 07:34:51 am
I just downloaded this game and tried it, but I have a problem: the game window always updates one frame behind of what I'm doing. This makes a turn-based game unplayable. Does anyone know of a fix? I found nothing in the manual or "known issues" page on the wiki, and the bug tracker gave me a 404.
Sounds like you downloaded the outdated Julian Mensch version, are you sure you've got 0.9.6Ix version?
Post by: IcyTea31 on December 22, 2014, 07:47:06 am
Post by: Zireael on December 22, 2014, 01:43:42 pm
Version 0.6.9h. Perhaps a little outdated. That's probably it.
0.6.9h is the last one by Julian, before choose ported from Allegro to libtcod. The buggy refresh was one of the things that necessitated the move.
Post by: chooseusername on December 22, 2014, 03:41:46 pm
An updated download is available on bitbucket (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/downloads): 0.6.9Y15.
This release should be the most stable one yet. A lot of bugs introduced while cleaning up the code since taking up the project, have been fixed. In addition to a good raft of legacy bugs. Even one feature!
Changes:
- Issue 4 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/4): Implemented 'amplify spell' metamagic feat. This reduces the target's magic resistance by 25%.
- Issue 44 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/44/): Added note to empty handed warning about ability to switch warning off in the options.
- Issue 46 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/46/): Character sheet recall monster option allows a user to read a card detailing the selected monster type. However, certain monster categories were not displaying correctly because the value was bumped 100000 as an indicator and the value's variable was an int16. Reported by Stone_Dog@Bitbucket.
- Issue 179 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/179/): Legacy bug! If you provide an assignment operator overload, then you should provide a matching copy constructor. The reason for this is that you are sometimes likely to assign in a variable declaration, which uses the latter not the former. Not providing the copy constructor, will do a bitwise copy which will result in this case in EventInfo instances sharing the same string references. The first to get destroyed, will destroy the strings it thinks it owns, and either corruption or crashing will then happen. Reported by Felius@Bay12.
- Issue 183 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/183/): If the user set 'Roguelike Keyset' to 'ON' and 'Shift Arrow Keys' to 'Run', shift and any of the 'vi keys' would not result in the player running. This is an artifact of the move from Allegro to libtcod. There's a special place in hell reserved for the SDL developers and their new API which goes lowest common denominator in order to cram in support for the mobile experience. If someone presses 'h' it is a text event, if someone presses shift+'h' it is a key event with the shift modifier. Ugh. Reported by dck k, with reproduction case.
- Issue 185 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/185/): The victim oriented message shown to bystanders when an attack attempt was towards a weapon, rather than it's wielder, was about the actor rather than the victim. This meant a mud elemental attacking a weapon would result in a message describing the weapon to be the mud elemental's rather than the wielders. Reported by Georgy Vlasov.
- Issue 186 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/186/): 'One body, one soul' feat was intended to substitute best attribute value out of wisdom and constitution in some circumstances, but the code was wrong. Reported by Karagy, with patch.
- Issue 187 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/187/): Doing an enter action via the 'y' use menu did not validate the target object type before sending the event, and the script engine would choke when it found that whatever it was the player was trying to enter, was not a portal. Reported by Karagy, with handy save file.
- Issue 188 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/188/): Selecting an item from the inventory would crash if there were more than 100 items in there somewhere. This was a hard-coded limit added in a previous bug fix, for some reason. Now buffer is reallocated by enumeration function and problem goes away. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 189 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/189/): Precision strike had no range constraint, allowing it to be used against distant targets. It uses the wielded weapon, otherwise the default attack of the racial type. If the wielded weapon was ranged, then it was used as a brawl weapon naively. For now precision strike cannot be used if the wielded weapon is ranged. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 190 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/190/): If a god is angry but decides to act later, then a stati was registered for it. Unfortunately, it wasn't checked if there was already such a stati from a previous decision to act and act later, so they accumulate and the maximum number of stati that can be present on the player is hit, resulting in a red box. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 191 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/191/): When people use the roguelike keyset, this overrides all the keys that comprise the roguelike keyset to do arrow key movements. Unfortunately this means that any menu that expects these keys gets the movement character instead. Including in this case, the learn spell option in the character sheet. Now if roguelike keyset is in use, 'E' is advertised as the key instead of 'L'. Reported by Thyme Oregano@Bitbucket.
- Issue 192 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/192/): Compilation warning fixes broke money transfers, resulting in bugged amounts being transferred due to signed/unsigned variable interaction. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 193 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/193/): Compilation warning fixes broke casted touch attacks, resulting in crashes. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 194 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/194/): Compilation warning fixes broke praying for aid. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 195 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/195/): Observed messages where the action for some reason could be observed, but the actor could not be identified, would report the action as 'It blah blah..' as a substitution for 'The thing blah blah..'. Now, the message observed is 'Something blah blah..' in this case.
- Issue 196 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/196/): When someone successfully counterspells, they get the act factored into when their next action happens, as a delay. The problem was that counterspell has benefits over and above the advertised ones, where the delay is reduced as the skill level of counterspell increases. This then goes negative at a certain level, and puts the player out of commission with a permanent timeout. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 199 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/199/): The poison doses requires to coat each 10 missiles, required 1 dose for the first 20 and an additional dose for each additional 10. This is bad math. It should be 1 dose per 10. Reported by Felius@Bay12.
- Issue 200 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/200/): Undefined 141 appeared in character abilities listing, this is because Master Artisan lacked an entry in the naming table.
- Issue 201 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/201/): The code which considers paralysis of a target as valid for coup de gras checked skills on the actor, rather than the victim. Reported by Felius@Bay12, with handy save file.
- Issue 202 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/202/): The attribute rolling animation took a strangely long time. The animation display update, and display delay were the same, but just seemed more effective (and slower) under libtcod. This is fixed by only updating the animation for the first 0.5 seconds of the roll, as it's all a super fast graphical affectation anyway.
Post by: chooseusername on December 22, 2014, 04:11:13 pm
Personally, I think that this should only apply to classical gaze attacks, like those of a basilisk or medusa. Or one where something logical like hypnotism is involved - like a devilfish.
I propose to go through the gaze attacks and only have this protection apply where it is classically known to work, or where it is logically expected to work. Objections?
Post by: guessingo on December 22, 2014, 05:11:18 pm
its hard to tell from lists of fixes how much has been done. Also with the code cleanup its best to ask the developer. Just asking your opinion. In case anyone is concerned I do not mean this as an attack on the original developer.
Post by: chooseusername on December 22, 2014, 08:35:43 pm
@chooseusername: in your opinion how far have you brought the game since you took it over? Do you consider the game far more stable? The code cleanup... I take this to mean the code was really hard to work with and you made it easier for you to enhance in the future right? Bad variable names, code not normalized, stuff like that right? I am guessing that you have made it alot more structured and easier to work with.I have made lots and lots of minor changes. The code cleanup consisted of me reformatting the code, and fixing compiler warnings. Other than that the changes have been bug fixes, and getting the code to work to begin with.
its hard to tell from lists of fixes how much has been done. Also with the code cleanup its best to ask the developer. Just asking your opinion. In case anyone is concerned I do not mean this as an attack on the original developer.
The code is effectively the same as it was when I started, with the missing bits recreated (related to the scripting language), old buggy dependencies replaced (allegro -> libtcod as mentioned above), reformatting (where the whitespace and braces are made consistent) and the bug fixes.
I would class all my changes, with the exception of the libtcod work, and the scripting language work, as being cosmetic. But the game is demonstrably more stable, just see the post above where someone downloaded the old release from Julian.
Have a Festivus!
Post by: guessingo on December 22, 2014, 08:41:56 pm
been there myself.Thank you for doing the really hard work on this.
Post by: chooseusername on December 22, 2014, 08:54:45 pm
taking over old foreign unformatted code... ouch. No wonder julian didn't want to keep working on it. He probably got better as a developer as he got older and was looking at his old code and going 'kill me'.The primary problem when it comes to working on it is that the gameplay is deep and detailed. Badly formatted code is a minor detail. The code is actually pretty well written, it just suffers from inevitable complexity given that gameplay.
been there myself.Thank you for doing the really hard work on this.
Post by: guessingo on December 22, 2014, 08:58:37 pm
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on December 29, 2014, 11:47:20 am
Post by: Zireael on December 29, 2014, 01:36:53 pm
Enable use inventory cursor in options, that way you'll be able to scroll down to your backpack.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 29, 2014, 07:11:42 pm
Post by: Felius on December 29, 2014, 10:52:48 pm
So... has some group undertaken the development of the game, after the source was released?A group of a single person composed by chooseusername. :P Otherwise, I don't remember any other group handling the maitenance and continued development of Incursion. There's a TOME based remake, but from what I understand it's still heavily WIP.
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 30, 2014, 08:23:55 am
Post by: Zireael on December 30, 2014, 08:25:32 am
What's the killer feature of this game?
Being based on d20?
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 30, 2014, 09:01:27 am
Post by: Zireael on December 30, 2014, 09:05:02 am
So it's lore friendly and d&d simmy? Anything else?
I've heard praises of its level generation, but having read some more (hint: it's region-based) I'm not sure what's so revolutionary about Julian's implementation. Anyhow, in practice it manages to give interesting levels (and no cut-off rooms and few dead ends).
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 30, 2014, 04:28:43 pm
Ideally, this version should be fullscreen with survivable text size. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: getter77 on December 30, 2014, 05:58:21 pm
What's the killer feature of this game?
The sheer unbridled madness possible when dual-wielding spiked chains---among other possible high spectacle builds that can lead to incredible stories. Pantheon also goes rather deep.
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 30, 2014, 06:12:21 pm
What's the killer feature of this game?
The sheer unbridled madness possible when dual-wielding spiked chains---among other possible high spectacle builds that can lead to incredible stories. Pantheon also goes rather deep.
AHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: chooseusername on December 30, 2014, 09:41:38 pm
Is the download link on the site the most up to date version? The link proffered in this thread's OP is asking for liptcod.dll.You're probably downloading the Windows XP compatible executable, which you don't need unless you need it. It would only work anyway, if the general release archive was downloaded, and it was put in place of the executable that comes with it (which is predictably not Windows XP compatible).
Ideally, this version should be fullscreen with survivable text size. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I've rearranged the downloads.
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 31, 2014, 08:41:54 am
Post by: guessingo on December 31, 2014, 01:23:04 pm
What's the killer feature of this game?
Being based on d20?
I highly recommend you stop referring to Incursion and Veins of the Earth as d20 games. THat doesn't make any sense to most of us. I don't know why d20 is special. I think you should say 'its based on AD&D 4th Edition rules and character creation is similiar to Never Winter Nights. I think more people will try these games out of you do that. It makes more sense.
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on December 31, 2014, 02:15:39 pm
(2) How to attack monsters?
(3) To the author: what is your current objective on features to be implemented and what will the game look like as it's finished (compared to the current state)? More dungeon levels or maybe you will add open ranges? Something like a storyline or just single quests?
Post by: getter77 on December 31, 2014, 05:54:35 pm
What's the killer feature of this game?
Being based on d20?
I highly recommend you stop referring to Incursion and Veins of the Earth as d20 games. THat doesn't make any sense to most of us. I don't know why d20 is special. I think you should say 'its based on AD&D 4th Edition rules and character creation is similiar to Never Winter Nights. I think more people will try these games out of you do that. It makes more sense.
Well, d20 is a better moniker probably...d20 OGL'ish is closer, but doesn't flow as well. The main people that will "get it" are P&P tabletop folks and those with a perhaps stronger than the norm RPG background. It definitely isn't based on AD&D 4th Ed because that doesn't quite exist out of maybe some ongoing homebrew(The official AD&D line stopped at 2nd Ed if memory serves..), nor 4th ED D&D as that has no games outside of the Neverwinter MMO kinda as well as a murky licensing situation to which you'd not want to be claiming ANYTHING.
If guess if you wanted to go for maximum cheekiness you could just say they are "Roguelikes based on the greatest tabletop RPG classic of all time!~" as that's pretty much what every OSR Kickstarter project uses with a nod & wink, heh.
Post by: chooseusername on January 02, 2015, 03:51:34 pm
(1) Nevertheless, how can I open my backpack and look through what's contained in there? How to put items in there?Press '?' for help on keypresses. It will tell you what key is used for what. Key words to consider: inventory, get item.
(2) How can I attack monsters?The same way you attack monsters in most games, move into them.
(3) To the author: which is your current objective on features to involve and what will the game look like when it will be finished(compared to the current state)? More dungeon levels or maybe you will add open ranges? Something like a storyline or single quests?The author no longer works on the game. The game is open source, and anyone can work on it, taking it any direction they want.
Personally, I have no objectives or plans. I work on fixing bugs that I feel are worth my time.
Post by: Thydron on January 07, 2015, 07:40:14 am
The prestige classes work seems straightforward enough - I think the additional code for most of the abilities should be similar to existing prestige classes / monster abilities, so it should be mostly copying & adjusting existing code into prestige.irh in /lib/ & un-commenting the options out.
The map stuff seems trickier - the room types along with terrain features are in dungeon.irh in /lib/ (and there seems to be commented out code for a "Hellish rift" leading to an incomplete 9 hells sub-dungeon), and the Goblin Caves are specifically mentioned as being the over-arching dungeon, but I can't see where the code to control which rooms it contains on which levels is, apart from the bit at the top which adds the specific one-off dungeon features. So adding new room types seems like it'd be straightforward, but I'm not sure how you'd guarantee they actually make it into the game.
But adding new *shapes* of rooms would require more additions - at the moment they're all based on a set number of categories - e.g. mazes, surreal mazes, hedge mazes are all "RM_MAZE" types just with differing encounter lists / terrain. No idea where "RM_MAZE" is defined though, which I think would be where adding whole new shapes of rooms would need to be done (Or, really, if it needs to be. If people want to add towns etc. I think it'd be easier just to draw a specific map like the Goblin Encampment. So the room shape thing is probably not worth worrying about on reflection - think we've got enough generic types to work with, along with the ability to draw specific rooms if we want)
Adding a plain overland/outdoors room at the start with the Goblin dungeons just below would be the first step to getting additional separate dungeons added I think, but I also think that might break the specific "leaving the Goblin Dungeons" code / the code that stops you resting outside the dungeons once you hit a certain level. (And I have no idea where the code that puts the player in the Goblin Caves dungeon specifically at the start of the game is, or if that could easily be adapted to drop the player in "The World" dungeon first, with the Goblin caves as just a sub-dungeon)
More simply, from looking at the subraces.irh in /lib/, it seems like just removing the "if 0" / "endif" at the start / end might enable subraces? (plus toggling the selection in the options) Could be worth changing that in a test version and seeing what happens - I assume it was disabled by Journeyman so a reason, but possibly just for balance or because the sub-races weren't fleshed out rather than being game-breaking.
Essentially, I think if we can figure out how to add new dungeons / rooms, get an overland map with distinct towns / dungeons / forests etc working, and add quests / guilds in somehow, we'd be getting close to the original vision of the game. But I think a lot of that would be adding new code rather than just adapting what's there already, and I think is far beyond my abilities.
In case anyone hasn't seen it, the original technical white paper for the game that goes into some of the underlying coding philosophy / aims is at: http://www.incursion-roguelike.org/TechPaper%20%28Web%20Version%29.htm
There's also some comments from Journeyman from the old Google groups that mentioned aims for the overland / guilds / gods / quests etc - don't have time to dig them out now, but will see if I can find them at a later date for reference.
Realize I've rambled a bit here & this isn't the most coherent / structured set of comments (wrote much more than I intended to), but thought I'd add it in case anyone found it useful (/ as a reminder to myself later) - if anyone's had a look through the code and thinks I've got something wrong / knows the answers to some of those questions please let us know!
(And also many many thanks to chooseusername for the bugfixes & getting the code onto bitbucket!)
Post by: Zireael on January 07, 2015, 01:36:07 pm
Post by: chooseusername on January 11, 2015, 02:39:53 am
Who does this benefit? I like to tell myself that people who can't see good and use screen readers, will be able to play Incursion if this is available. Will they play it? Beats me. Will it be playable for them, using a screen reader and this UI? Beats me. But it's one of those programming tasks that grabbed my interest and was always at the back of my mind eating away at me as an unfulfilled whim. For those who can see good, there's some termrec program which records DOS console output which should allow you to distribute recordings of games, for others to watch or for you to recall your glory days.
Once the final small pieces of work have been done, I'll provide a new version of the build dependencies with the required files. And binaries will be provided with each subsequent release, should there be any demand.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vjKub_AiH2M/VLIdRWkOfBI/AAAAAAAAAu8/j0eOPxYb7IA/s1600/2015-01-11%2B-%2Bincursion%2Bconsole.jpg)
Post by: getter77 on January 11, 2015, 08:02:50 am
Post by: Thydron on January 20, 2015, 03:10:38 pm
Road to Return of the Forsaken: http://pastebin.com/ZzL5JKjV
Very high level comments on items planned, including prestige classes, subraces, urban environments, the wilderness
Dungeon Variety: http://pastebin.com/WjPLVbjw
Comments on plans for more single-thematic dungeons and related ideas (includes comments made by "Momaw" that Julian said were pretty close to his plans)
High level feats: http://pastebin.com/Fx6iQdR7
Intended high level feats not yet implemented
Spells: http://pastebin.com/Eke7jnpC
Intended high level spell list
Psionics: http://pastebin.com/YKVKnZ7p
Ideas about Psionics
Monster builds: http://pastebin.com/WtACagm7
Plans for templates to add to vanilla monsters (e.g. making a goblin a shadowdancer etc.), and ideas for some specific NPCs to be fought/traded with/recruited. I'm not sure how much of this has already been implemented - I've definitely seen build as described in this within the game already, but think this is more about getting monsters to be treated like PCs?
Monster AI: http://pastebin.com/jDz55JUL
Ideas about behaviours for the monster AI - e.g. targeting a summoner rather than summons, converting altars, etc.
I've been working on trying to frankenstein together code for the Crimson Adept; it's coming along ok but slowly.
(Also, while looking through the prestige class code, I think I've found a bug where some classes at least aren't giving the weapon proficiencies they say they do - I've tested this with a druid blackguard who didn't get access to blades / polearms as they should have - should be fairly simply to add so will aim to correct that at the same time)
edit: might as well note here that there are comments around intended new gods & domains in comments at the bottom of the relevant code: https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/src/572b49bdc86deb96968949bdf98708fb0f344a26/lib/religion.irh?at=master
and that some intended sub-races are already coded in but commented out: https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/src/572b49bdc86deb96968949bdf98708fb0f344a26/lib/subraces.irh?at=master
edit2:
along with psionic combat notes and ideas for new alchemical items in the alchemy code: https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/src/572b49bdc86deb96968949bdf98708fb0f344a26/lib/alchemy.irh?at=master
Post by: chooseusername on January 20, 2015, 11:34:54 pm
Post by: chooseusername on January 21, 2015, 04:14:05 pm
Post by: Zireael on January 22, 2015, 09:14:44 am
- subraces
- overland map
- more dungeons
- higher level spells & feats
Monster builds, AI improvements and psionic combat can probably come later.
Post by: Thydron on January 22, 2015, 04:53:46 pm
For flavour I'd say you'd also need the thirteen "Forsaken" that the player has to kill one of to end the game to make it a full "Return of the Forsaken 1.0" release. (I can't find it now, but I'm fairly certain Journeyman said somewhere that the plan was that the game was "won" after one was defeated; I'd imagine that killing all thirteen would be an additional "high score" option.)
Will follow the advice about the code forking once I've gotten the code to a sensible stopping point (Should hopefully be able to spend a decent amount of time on it this weekend).
Post by: chooseusername on January 22, 2015, 09:16:29 pm
Not saying that this is how it should be or not, just curious of thoughts on the above.
Post by: Gomissar on January 23, 2015, 01:10:54 am
At the moment gaze attacks are either ineffectual if the player has their eyes closed, or potentially ineffectual if the player has their eyes averted. Or if the player is wearing lenses that achieve the same thing.
Personally, I think that this should only apply to classical gaze attacks, like those of a basilisk or medusa. Or one where something logical like hypnotism is involved - like a devilfish.
I propose to go through the gaze attacks and only have this protection apply where it is classically known to work, or where it is logically expected to work. Objections?
A bit late with my reply here, but that would make some creatures way too powerful. For example, bodak already can instantly kill most characters 3 times out 4 as soon as it sees them. Actually, right now bodak can kill many players before they can even see it, because bodak has darkvision and its gaze works like a magic attack for some reason.
Finally, I don't see a reason to deviate from D&D in this particular case. It's not like gaze attacks are underpowered and blind fighting is not that easy. Can't say anything about lenses, though.
Post by: Thydron on January 23, 2015, 05:44:31 am
Hmm. Isn't the current module set about killing a goblin king or something? Isn't it practical to limit the gameplay to what's there now, i.e. dealing with the goblin king? No overland? And why are subraces important?
Not saying that this is how it should be or not, just curious of thoughts on the above.
Ah, I think Zireal & I may have misinterpreted your question as 'what would be necessary to turn Incursion into a 1.0 version of the full "Return of the Forsaken" planned game'.
In terms of what would be needed to get to a 1.0 just for the "Halls of the Goblin King" module, I think it's mostly there already - you can get down to the bottom of the dungeon, kill the king & emerge victorious, which is essentially the game. In terms of buggy-ness, I haven't played a full game recently, but I think most of the main showstoppers have been addressed?
The extra prestige classes / subraces / psionics aren't really necessary to finish the game successfully, so would probably come under bonus content.
The level cap could be pushed out to 20 & the associated feats/spells added; that was the planned level cap for the full game, but might be overkill for dealing with the Goblin Dungeon as is (though I imagine the dungeon depth could be increased fairly easily to compensate). That'd be quite an undertaking, though it's more adding lots of content rather than the adding new code features work that the overland etc. would involve. And again, none of that is really necessary to complete the game as is.
The full "Return of the Forsaken" game was planned to be a lot larger scale than just the one dungeon, more ADOM / Omega scale, hence the features we mentioned (and I think the Goblin King's dungeon itself probably would be a lot smaller & consistently goblin-themed in the full game; in the dungeon variety comments I added earlier Journeyman mentioned that it's a bit of a hodge-podge of all possible terrain / monster types at the moment mainly because there's nowhere else to put them)
And on the gaze attacks, I think I'd echo Gomissar's comments - a lot of the gaze attacks are very very nasty - I'm thinking of the grey nymph's "instant death due to beauty overload", which wouldn't be a classical gaze attack - if averting your eyes / fighting blind doesn't work against those, then that will make them a *lot* more deadly for fighters (/anyone who doesn't have access to a death ward spell), and I can't really think of how you'd deal with those sorts of creatures otherwise
Post by: Zireael on January 23, 2015, 08:12:49 am
Should Return of the Forsaken ever come, the goblin king dungeon should indeed be cleaned up. :)
Post by: chooseusername on January 23, 2015, 04:25:56 pm
When it comes to the Goblin King module, I guess the only thing remaining is to have subraces, since they have a prominent place in options menu.Another option would be removing sub races from the options menu.
Should Return of the Forsaken ever come, the goblin king dungeon should indeed be cleaned up. :)
Post by: chaoticag on January 23, 2015, 04:36:07 pm
Post by: chooseusername on January 23, 2015, 06:39:24 pm
It might be a good idea to do so for now, but I will say subraces do sound fun. I would put them as want for if the game progresses past HotGKOkay, this is how I would do it, keeping in mind I do not own Incursion and merely manage an actively developed version of the source code Julian released.
Incursion-HotGK being completed and stable is the first milestone. All unimplemented features which do not specifically add to the usual hodge-podge roguelike experience of going down and doing whatever people do to the Goblin King, in order to complete the "module", get sidelined. Anyone else can work on them and I'm happy to take them into my fork, but personally will not be working on them until HotGH is released. If they do not sit cleanly in the HotGK experience, they get put into a post-HotGK branch.
Then there's the post-HotGK target. This is pictured as a whole built on the parts that Julian has described. However, then we come to a quandary. Incursion is Julian's game, and the world he portrayed is.. his. It's interesting and worthwhile to work towards, but I would need him to be okay with it being done, especially under the name Incursion - for me to proceed with it. Perhaps he plans to work on it himself again with his next-gen engine some time in the future, even if it's just loose plans.
Post by: Karlito on January 23, 2015, 11:07:31 pm
Then there's the post-HotGK target. This is pictured as a whole built on the parts that Julian has described. However, then we come to a quandary. Incursion is Julian's game, and the world he portrayed is.. his. It's interesting and worthwhile to work towards, but I would need him to be okay with it being done, especially under the name Incursion - for me to proceed with it. Perhaps he plans to work on it himself again with his next-gen engine some time in the future, even if it's just loose plans.
As I understand the licence Incursion is distributed under, Julian has already given the okay for such development.
Post by: chaoticag on January 24, 2015, 05:26:04 am
Post by: getter77 on January 24, 2015, 08:13:03 am
Post by: Thydron on January 24, 2015, 01:19:35 pm
Around the subraces - since the code's already there, I'd say turn them on already - Julian's comments were that they might be slightly unbalanced, but since it's a one-player game, players aren't forced to use them, and they don't affect anything other than the player-character, activating them and leaving it up to players whether they want to use them or not is what I'd go for.
On that note, I'd planned to compile a version with subraces turned & some crimson adept stuff added to see if they worked properly, but have been having trouble compiling the code; are the instructions on the bitbucket page still current? Building the code doesn't seem to be creating an incursion.exe file, and debugging the code is saying the lib_incursion is out of date & needs to be built, then pops up an error stating that visual studio is "unable to open the program ... incursion.lib".
I'm seeing 4 projects in the overall solution - exe_curses, exe_libtcod, lib_incursion, mod_accent, with lib_incursion set as the startup project (changing this doesn't seem to help) - any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Post by: chooseusername on January 24, 2015, 06:55:24 pm
Set the startup to exe_libtcod.
Post by: Thydron on January 26, 2015, 05:20:01 am
Post by: chooseusername on January 26, 2015, 02:55:56 pm
Still no joy, but I've also tried compiling some of the earlier versions that have different dependencies, and those aren't working either, with similar errors, so suspect it's something on my endCopy the output window from visual studio, put it on pastebin or some similar site, link it here.
Post by: Thydron on January 26, 2015, 07:45:42 pm
1) put curses.h, panel.h, and pdcurses.dll, from pdc34dllw.zip (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdcurses/files/pdcurses/3.4/), into the /src project subdirectory.
2) put pdcurses.lib from the same source straight into the project directory
3) put all the files from the /include subdirectory of the libtcod source (https://bitbucket.org/jice/libtcod/src/091673a868a0b487c6e155069ffae1a82943db7c/include/?at=default) into the /src project subdirectory (think this may have been overkill, and not sure if all the files are needed, but it worked)
4) commented out line 1006 of wlibtcod.cpp from within VS (pretty easy - it takes you straight to the problem line)
Also, it doesn't look like SDL2.dll is in the latest dependencies zip file but it's pretty easy to find in the libtcod bitbucket page.
I've tested the subrace code - seems to work without any errors; have made some minor changes to the code & turned them on and submitted a pull request to the main fork, so if you want to enable the option you should be able to use that.
Post by: chooseusername on January 26, 2015, 08:14:04 pm
Got the latest build working - in addition to the steps on the bitbucket page I had to do the following before compiling the debug build:Well, if you don't fix this, then you just don't get the not fully working curses exe, and the libtcod one should be built independently and work fine. But thanks for the list of files, I'll put them in the right places next time I make a dependencies archive.
1) put curses.h, panel.h, and pdcurses.dll, from pdc34dllw.zip (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdcurses/files/pdcurses/3.4/), into the /src project subdirectory.
2) put pdcurses.lib from the same source straight into the project directory
3) put all the files from the /include subdirectory of the libtcod source (https://bitbucket.org/jice/libtcod/src/091673a868a0b487c6e155069ffae1a82943db7c/include/?at=default) into the /src project subdirectory (think this may have been overkill, and not sure if all the files are needed, but it worked)These are already included in the dependencies, and should if extracted in the right location, just work.
Quote
4) commented out line 1006 of wlibtcod.cpp from within VS (pretty easy - it takes you straight to the problem line)This one people can guess.
Also, it doesn't look like SDL2.dll is in the latest dependencies zip file but it's pretty easy to find in the libtcod bitbucket page.I'll put this in the dependencies next time I make one.
Thanks.
Post by: chooseusername on January 27, 2015, 02:24:07 am
Actually, this one should just work, if you had extracted the dependencies archive correctly. So really, only pdcurses and sdl2.dll were the remaining things for me to address.4) commented out line 1006 of wlibtcod.cpp from within VS (pretty easy - it takes you straight to the problem line)This one people can guess.
Post by: Karlito on January 29, 2015, 02:25:20 pm
Something else that would be helpful (at least to me) would be establishing what is necessary to get the game to a 1.0 state, and what is bonus content.
Alright, I've been playing quite a bit of Incursion over the past fortnight, and while Incursion has enough mechanical depth to be fun and interesting, playing it is a very clunky experience. On lower levels especially the dungeon slowly fills up with junk items and a message pops up whenever you move over a space with items. This is exacerbated by the fact that monster groups are often hostile to each other, so often you'll enter a room that's entirely filled with corpses and junk items. I sometimes have issues with message feedback where I frequently have to pull up the message log because not everything from the previous turn was printed to the screen, or message pop-ups (like room descriptions) flash up and immediately close. There are a bunch of smaller QoL issues and small bugs that I've encountered during the course of play that are probably hard to reproduce (and if I want to actually help instead of complain I suppose I'll try to document them), but really what I think Incursion needs right now is not more content, but more streamlined gameplay.
Post by: chooseusername on February 01, 2015, 06:11:56 pm
what I think Incursion needs right now is not more content, but more streamlined gameplay.In earlier comments above, someone detailed how HotGK is a make-do hodge-podge which was intended to demonstrate the abilities of the game engine - a bland experience representative of the archetypical roguelike like Nethack or Rogue and so on. It is what it is, and it isn't really representative of the direction of gameplay which is more open world, quests and so forth. The Incursion game engine, while certainly never reaching it's full potential, is a D&D oriented game engine. It has quest support, overworld support and so on. It has basic unused multiplayer party support. To spend time polishing it and perfecting it, is not moving towards the end goal - it's getting distracted on a small side project wasting time and energy that could be spent elsewhere.
Also, your trash to some extent is other peoples treasure. Other people enjoy the signs of active life elsewhere in the dungeon. Past, that general bugs would get fixed whether evident in the HotGK module, or in other further modules that head towards procedurally generated open world roguelike RPG.
Post by: chooseusername on February 02, 2015, 08:02:30 pm
If you wish to balance it, maybe ask for a development version which allows the HotGK module to be edited and recompiled and reloaded. My time as I see it is better spent working on fixing bugs and improving the engine, and adding better support for more stuff to be edited in the module scripts rather than hard-coded in the C++ source code.
Is anyone willing to take charge of balancing? You'd have to propose an approach which got the thumbs up from anyone who cared and could justify their concerns in this thread.
Post by: chooseusername on February 10, 2015, 01:38:09 pm
Post by: chooseusername on February 18, 2015, 02:52:35 am
Post by: Zireael on February 18, 2015, 08:26:40 am
I've asked Julian to transfer the domain name to me, so that I can refer to a proper web site rather than the bitbucket site. And put decent recent information there, like screenshots and what-not. He's readily agreed. So I guess the name question is also answered.
That's great news!
Post by: getter77 on February 18, 2015, 08:56:00 am
Post by: chooseusername on February 18, 2015, 11:54:57 pm
Anyway, on the bright side this means smaller Incursion executables when this mess is sorted I guess.
Post by: chooseusername on February 22, 2015, 06:07:24 pm
Thanks to people who donated to the project. Your money has been used to pay for the cost of transfer (one year subscription for each of the three domains .org/.net/.com). In the long run, I'm tempted to have .com and .net redirect to .org, and to eventually ditch them.
Post by: chooseusername on February 28, 2015, 04:28:48 pm
Note that the official Incursion domains may go down for a few days while the domains are being transferred due to various issues, like myself and the previous owner, using the same host.
An updated download is available on bitbucket (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/downloads): 0.6.9Y16.
Changes:
- Issue 1 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/1/): Implemented 'pain tolerance' feat. Pull request submitted by thehouseoflai@Bitbucket.
- Issue 205 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/205/): Enabled sub-races support. This was disabled but has now been reenabled, is untested and generally unsupported. Pull request submitted by Thydron@Bitbucket.
- Issue 206 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/206/): GPLv2 violation within unused code compiled into the distribution binaries reported by johnny0@Bitbucket. Rather than relying on compiler dead code removal, now the problematic file (the Accent compiler compiler runtime) is explicitly excluded from the distribution build.
- Issue 207 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/207/): Incursion domain name transfers. Outstanding donations in the paypal account ($28.52US) have been used to fund transfer of the 'incursion-roguelike.org/.net/.com' domains from the original Incursion author, Julian. This will prevent people finding the old stale domains which refer to old releases, and experiencing a more broken Incursion. And will provide a better entrypoint than the bitbucket project page. In the long term, the .net and .com domains may be discarded.
Post by: Robsoie on February 28, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
I just gave a try to the new version ( Incursion-0.6.9Y16 ) and seems to be able to crash it nearly (as it didn't crashed once, but every other dozen of other attempts it did) everytime when i press the key ?
This does not happen in the main menu, only when in the dungeon.
I'm on XP and use a french azerty keyboard if there's anything related ( on my keyboard ? is obtained with pressing Shift and , )
Post by: chooseusername on March 01, 2015, 12:11:38 am
Thanks for the continuous work on Incursion.Actually, the ? menu in dungeon was something I tested and modified quite a bit just before release. There can't be that much difference between what you are doing and what I am doing, and not having a french keyboard there's no way I can reproduce it. So we're at an impasse.
I just gave a try to the new version ( Incursion-0.6.9Y16 ) and seems to be able to crash it nearly (as it didn't crashed once, but every other dozen of other attempts it did) everytime when i press the key ?
This does not happen in the main menu, only when in the dungeon.
I'm on XP and use a french azerty keyboard if there's anything related ( on my keyboard ? is obtained with pressing Shift and , )
What we need is for someone to install Visual Studio, build the Y16 release and debug it. Then either fix it, or provide me the call stack. I don't suppose you're game for that? It should be relatively straightforward, even if you know nothing other than what files to install, extract and menus to choose.
Post by: Zireael on March 01, 2015, 11:34:18 am
(https://zireael07.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/incursion-help.png)
Post by: Robsoie on March 01, 2015, 12:15:07 pm
Now about the crash, it does not appear to be related to the ? after all as i managed to reproduce the crash with the help without having to key press some french keyboard related keys :
In the main menu, i simply move the cursor to " [g] General Help " and press enter , same instant crash as happened ingame with the keypress, same as if i press only g too.
I wonder if it has to do with XP or some opengl support (my "card" supporting only opengl 2.1 )
Post by: chooseusername on March 01, 2015, 05:26:16 pm
Well, whatever you did to the help menu, it doesn't crash on my end, but looks all mangled:I suspect this is a separate problem to do with the raft of changes to generalise things so that a curses UI can also work.
By any chance do you change the default window size and font size? If not, what are they set to.
Post by: chooseusername on March 01, 2015, 05:32:03 pm
No sorry those visual studio and compilling piece of code stuffs are a bit beyond me unfortunately.I'll see if I can compile a special binary which dumps out a stack trace when crashing. I'll get back to you about this. I used to use Google Breakpad or Crashpad or something to do this, but I think someone complained it was causing causing crashes itself :o
Now about the crash, it does not appear to be related to the ? after all as i managed to reproduce the crash with the help without having to key press some french keyboard related keys :
In the main menu, i simply move the cursor to " [g] General Help " and press enter , same instant crash as happened ingame with the keypress, same as if i press only g too.
I wonder if it has to do with XP or some opengl support (my "card" supporting only opengl 2.1 )
Post by: chooseusername on March 01, 2015, 08:48:42 pm
No sorry those visual studio and compilling piece of code stuffs are a bit beyond me unfortunately.I have added a new download (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/downloads): Incursion-0.6.9Y16-only-download-if-getting-crashes.7z
Now about the crash, it does not appear to be related to the ? after all as i managed to reproduce the crash with the help without having to key press some french keyboard related keys :
In the main menu, i simply move the cursor to " [g] General Help " and press enter , same instant crash as happened ingame with the keypress, same as if i press only g too.
It has instructions inside. Let me know if there are any questions.
Post by: Zireael on March 02, 2015, 04:33:29 am
Well, whatever you did to the help menu, it doesn't crash on my end, but looks all mangled:I suspect this is a separate problem to do with the raft of changes to generalise things so that a curses UI can also work.
By any chance do you change the default window size and font size? If not, what are they set to.
I always change the windowed window size to what the fullscreen size is by default (I think it's 1024x768). Font size default.
Post by: Robsoie on March 02, 2015, 07:43:51 am
I got the dmp file being generated when in the main menu i go to the "[g] General Help" and crash after pressing enter
http://i.imgur.com/4Og5jI3.jpg
but there's a problem , the dmp file size is 0 octet, there's nothing in it.
I redid the crash several time to obtain more of those .dmp files and it looks like every of them file are created completely empty, i checked with XVI32 (an old but good hex editor) to see if it wasn't window that for some reason wasn't reading the file right, but it confirmed they are completely empty.
Post by: Robsoie on March 02, 2015, 11:18:16 am
It appears that the [g] General Help crash is always creating empty .dmp , only the ingame version of the same help crash can generate a correct .dmp.
I uploaded it on the existing issue report bitbucket as i just noticed someone reported the same problem
Post by: chooseusername on March 02, 2015, 03:02:00 pm
Finally managed to obtain a dmp file that is not empty by doing the ingame help ( key ? ) crash.Thanks! Unfortunately, your dump didn't contain any useful information, but that's Google's fault, not yours. I did manage to find something dodgy looking based on one of the other crash dumps.
It appears that the [g] General Help crash is always creating empty .dmp , only the ingame version of the same help crash can generate a correct .dmp.
I uploaded it on the existing issue report bitbucket as i just noticed someone reported the same problem
Post by: chooseusername on March 02, 2015, 04:10:44 pm
Changes:
- Issue 213 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/213/): GIT on Windows will not recognise file names that are not in exactly the right casing that they were added to it as. Visual Studio will rename files it encounters on disk, that do not have the same casing as it has for them, to have it's casing. Eventually a programmer will tab complete a file name and do a git command on it, and the command will fail silently as the file name casing is no longer correct for git. git can suck it. But for now, this corrects the VS2013 file name casing.
- Issue 214 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/213/): Add the Open Gaming License to the LICENSE file. Note that it was and always has been included already within the game executable.
- Issue 215 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/213/): Reintroduction of Google Breakpad. This will write minidumps out to the game directory if the game crashes, as before. However, it's been removed from the place it caused crashes in the last time. It has also been updated to the latest version which will hopefully address reports of empty minidumps for #216.
- Issue 216 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/213/): The last release seems to have included a whole raft of changes that were forgotten about, related to Curses support. One final pre-release change introduced graphical corruption if you were lucky, instability if not. Reported by Robsoie@Bay12.
Post by: Robsoie on March 02, 2015, 04:38:13 pm
Post by: chooseusername on March 02, 2015, 05:32:07 pm
Post by: Robsoie on March 02, 2015, 09:13:09 pm
currently trying to survive in exploring with a level 2 rogue that spend most of his time hidden in shadow.
Still i got ambushed on the 2nd floor of the dungeon in some kind of underground farm by a "Malyss Root" that exposed me and drained my character from a dexterity point apparently, and got me stuck immediately.
As the plant creature was hitting hard and i was unable to hit due to being stuck, i only managed to escape after failing several escape rolls (that nearly got me killed as the Malyss Root didn't fail its attacks meanwhile) with a dimensional door potion and a couple of healing ones.
I'll have to explore a bit more to get to level 3 and improve my character skills a bit more before going back and try to fill the monster with arrows.
edit , put on spoiler to avoid a too long post on that page of the board, a bit more of exploration with my rogue character
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: chooseusername on March 03, 2015, 12:10:42 am
Thanks for the update, it works nicely.Thanks for putting up with all the wasted time and effort due to my mistakes! :D
Post by: chooseusername on March 03, 2015, 04:58:07 pm
Note that minidumps for 0.6.9Y17 are not usable. This is because I forgot to keep the binaries I created when I made the distribution, and am unable to recreate them in the same way with the same code, so that minidumps will accept them.
Changes:
- Issue 215 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/215/): Finished Google Breakpad reintegration. Build script now packages libs and includes for Breakpad in the generated dependencies archive. Build script now packages the licenses in the generated dependencies archive. Build script now actually generates a dependencies archive. Rename USE_CRASHPAD to USE_BREAKPAD. Make static library names pragmas for Breakpad to allow easy disabling.
- Issue 219 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/219/): Fix a crash where the game exited, when the player tried to use the animal companion ability. This was introduced by a typo when the recent refactoring was done to allow other interfaces like Curses. Reported by Karagy@bitbucket.
- Issue 220 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/220/): Typo in Empower spell feat, 'Megnitude' -> 'Magnitude'. Reported by Vornag@Bitbucket.
Post by: Shizmoo on March 08, 2015, 08:57:09 pm
Post by: Robsoie on March 08, 2015, 10:56:55 pm
I can't say much on the endgame part as so far i always make a stupid mistake at some point with every of my characters and have them meet their doom in usually painful ways, so the endgame part is still unexplored territory for me, but i'm still trying and always enjoy my run with it.
But all in all very well worth playing , the unique atmosphere and the indepth D&D feeling of the game system is still very solid , and now it's very stable, it's just fantastic.
Post by: Shizmoo on March 09, 2015, 02:03:23 pm
Post by: chooseusername on March 15, 2015, 02:30:10 am
Post by: chooseusername on March 15, 2015, 02:31:43 am
Post by: Robsoie on March 15, 2015, 07:05:45 am
The oddest thing in the report is the mention of the feats in column that are in grey text.
For me the feats are all using a yellow colored text, only the unavailable feats are in grey and aren't even listed by default i need to enable their display first.
I tried the ? then escape with the unavailable feats enabled to see if it had to do with the crash, but still no problem.
Post by: chooseusername on March 15, 2015, 04:38:04 pm
I can't manage to reproduce the reported bug, when i'm in the feats list i press ? ( shift + , for my keyboard ) then after a second the help panel appears, then i press Escape to go back to the feat lists without problems, i did that dozen of times in a row to see if repeating the process would lead into crash but still it works without problems.I think the grey feats are the ones in the help document. Still, nice to get some feedback it's not easy to reproduce. Thanks for trying.
The oddest thing in the report is the mention of the feats in column that are in grey text.
For me the feats are all using a yellow colored text, only the unavailable feats are in grey and aren't even listed by default i need to enable their display first.
I tried the ? then escape with the unavailable feats enabled to see if it had to do with the crash, but still no problem.
Post by: Zireael on March 16, 2015, 02:49:40 am
Post by: chooseusername on March 16, 2015, 09:25:13 pm
I can't reproduce the bug either. Even tried pressing Shift+/ when the cursor was on Show all feats...Excellent, let's call that a result. Will downgrade the issue to minor, with a note, and when someone who can give usable reproducibility instructions comes along it'll be a problem for that day.
Post by: Piotrhabera on March 22, 2015, 04:04:05 pm
Post by: Piotrhabera on March 22, 2015, 04:05:05 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 22, 2015, 11:57:13 pm
Post by: Zireael on March 23, 2015, 08:40:31 am
Polish:
Piotr, rozpakuj grę najpierw a potem ją włączaj!
Post by: Piotrhabera on March 23, 2015, 02:21:25 pm
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(EMOTION RAMPAGE!)Post by: Piotrhabera on March 23, 2015, 03:15:29 pm
Post by: Piotrhabera on March 24, 2015, 09:51:53 am
Post by: Karlito on March 24, 2015, 09:57:30 am
Post by: bluejello on March 24, 2015, 10:29:06 am
Post by: Someone64 on March 27, 2015, 09:03:17 am
If you go to the top left corner of the room and run to the right you can watch as he runs in circles along the edges for all eternity. Quite amusing.
Also, due to the way the game handles encounters it's possible to die from waking up to a bunch of land salmon. I escaped a pool full of them and then rested nearby it (not near enough for anything to jump out of the pool and kill me) but woke up to 2 of them flapping around on the ground biting me, after which I died.
Post by: chooseusername on March 30, 2015, 04:44:00 pm
Post by: Zireael on March 31, 2015, 06:31:39 am
Post by: Zireael on April 05, 2015, 01:07:47 pm
Post by: chooseusername on April 08, 2015, 02:17:39 am
What is the name of the font that the game uses? I like how many symbols it has...Julian has made a new licensing announcement (http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/news.html) which names it.
Quote
I disavow all legal rights associated with the small supply of customized ASCII characters used by the game (the elf, dwarf, halfling, etc.) icons and release them under the same licenses as above to whatever extent I'm legally able to do so. The original glyphs are a screencap of a Microsoft font, however, so my ability to license them is dubious. I would recommend that developers that want to cross legal T's and dot legal I's make new, similar glyphs from an open-license console font.
Post by: chooseusername on May 08, 2015, 10:26:54 pm
Post by: Zireael on May 09, 2015, 06:53:01 am
Post by: chooseusername on May 10, 2015, 03:51:32 pm
Loving the site, will probably mail you some screenshots as soon as I get the next MA draft out :)Cheers. Sure, screenshots appreciated! The current ones are 800x600 display, so ideally any received should be the same size. Or enough should be provided at the different resolution that the old ones can be put aside.
Post by: Kyzrati on May 10, 2015, 08:02:54 pm
From a design perspective, though, hiding the menu links behind a single icon in the top right is not so easy to find (for me). I've been to the site a couple times lately and didn't even notice it until I combed every bit of the design. Maybe the point of that is to make it more mobile friendly?
Post by: chooseusername on May 13, 2015, 03:05:23 am
I like how you kept a link to the technical whitepaper on the new site. That paper was one of the things that really got me interested in roguelike development.There's a different menu icon for mobile and desktop. Desktop is "Menu =" and mobile is "=". I'll make it a different colour, or something, once I've finished the new Imaginary Realities web site.
From a design perspective, though, hiding the menu links behind a single icon in the top right is not so easy to find (for me). I've been to the site a couple times lately and didn't even notice it until I combed every bit of the design. Maybe the point of that is to make it more mobile friendly?
Post by: esran on June 03, 2015, 10:21:39 pm
Post by: chooseusername on June 09, 2015, 07:40:17 pm
Is there currently any way to redeem fallen paladins? Becoming good again doesn't seem to help.No. Behold:
Code: [Select]
// TODO(unimplemented): Paladin atonement.
void Character::PaladinAtone() {
}
How can one atone for such a thing?
Post by: Kagus on June 10, 2015, 02:55:08 pm
Potentially add in some kind of special transgression event where it spawns a deadly enemy, relevant to the particular paladin's god, somewhere in the level and you need to hunt it down and slaughter it? Also probably some form of penance/sacrifice. First thing that comes to mind in that sense would be losing money, but... Money isn't that big a deal in Inc, really. And losing your magical items would potentially be a game-ender in and of itself.
Post by: Retropunch on June 16, 2015, 01:55:15 pm
Historically a matter of great penance and performing a suicidally dangerous act in service of the church... How to implement that ingame, I'unno... Probably something god-related.
Potentially add in some kind of special transgression event where it spawns a deadly enemy, relevant to the particular paladin's god, somewhere in the level and you need to hunt it down and slaughter it? Also probably some form of penance/sacrifice. First thing that comes to mind in that sense would be losing money, but... Money isn't that big a deal in Inc, really. And losing your magical items would potentially be a game-ender in and of itself.
I'd suggest permanent stat/health loss. It's big enough to be a problem but not so big that it's a game ender. 'Dangerous monsters' can be a bit variable depending on gear, and money isn't much of a big deal.
How about a mix of lots of losses. Lose a few stat points, permanent health loss, money and some consumables? It's a sacrifice the player can understand and
Post by: chooseusername on June 21, 2015, 01:47:06 am
I'd suggest permanent stat/health loss. It's big enough to be a problem but not so big that it's a game ender. 'Dangerous monsters' can be a bit variable depending on gear, and money isn't much of a big deal.Okay, which stats? How many points? How much health, money? Which consumables? Is there a base amount and does it scale with character level? If there's some consensus on the exact details, I'll implement it (unless someone else volunteers to do it) and it'll be in the next version.
How about a mix of lots of losses. Lose a few stat points, permanent health loss, money and some consumables? It's a sacrifice the player can understand and
Post by: Zireael on June 21, 2015, 03:36:29 am
For sacrifice: potions of health/cure whatevers, food items (the most nutritious ones first), antidotes etc, potions of restore mana. Let's demand something you're likely to need regardless of level.
After sacrifice, as penance: I suggest dropping their Wisdom below 11 (essentially taking away their ability to cast spells). In addition to this, we might drop Str and/or Con, let's say 2 points.
Post by: chooseusername on June 25, 2015, 05:03:13 pm
https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues)
Anyone else noticed anything like this?
Post by: esran on June 25, 2015, 05:20:17 pm
There are concerns that the random number generator is low quality:For what its worth I play this game a lot and haven't noticed any problems.
https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/238/dice-generator-issues)
Anyone else noticed anything like this?
Post by: Retropunch on June 29, 2015, 03:45:19 pm
Hmm, we're talking paladins.
For sacrifice: potions of health/cure whatevers, food items (the most nutritious ones first), antidotes etc, potions of restore mana. Let's demand something you're likely to need regardless of level.
After sacrifice, as penance: I suggest dropping their Wisdom below 11 (essentially taking away their ability to cast spells). In addition to this, we might drop Str and/or Con, let's say 2 points.
This all sounds about right to me.I think a bit of randomness needs to be added in as otherwise it'd become a bit too formulaic (as in, the risk would be too obvious and you'd be able to make a very precise cost/benefit analysis). A mixture of long term and short term punishments really hit home, but probably don't leave you completely incapacitated.
I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food. I completely agree with dropping wisdom to below 11, but I'd maybe take either Str or Con and drop it 2-4 points.
I'd then add a random status effect (shakes, filth fever, blinding sickness, Bane or Red Ache) for a short term punishment. This might obviously stack with Str or Con which would be devastating, but would be a fair risk.
.
Post by: Xgamer4 on June 29, 2015, 10:56:51 pm
I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food.
Are you talking about purging from the inventory, or from the level? Because while I don't play Incursion (I just follow along because I think it's cool), the idea of severely cutting the spawn rate of good potions and/or equipment is a really interesting idea that'd also blend in really nicely with ticking off a god.
How that'd play out in practice I don't know, though...
Post by: Retropunch on June 30, 2015, 09:38:00 am
I'd suggest a big purge of good potions (maybe just a random selection if there is a 'good potion' label or similar) and definitely a big purge of food.
Are you talking about purging from the inventory, or from the level? Because while I don't play Incursion (I just follow along because I think it's cool), the idea of severely cutting the spawn rate of good potions and/or equipment is a really interesting idea that'd also blend in really nicely with ticking off a god.
How that'd play out in practice I don't know, though...
I had thought about taking it just about purging stuff from the inventory, but cutting down the spawn/taking them from the level would be very interesting!!
Post by: chooseusername on July 03, 2015, 10:18:23 pm
So, no penalties. Rather just give them paladin status back. But they're on a trial contract, they need to meet their contractual goals in order to go onto the proper employee contract. This might be not engaging in any aggression against non-evil creatures for a certain period of game time. It might be throwing some item into magma within some certain period of game time. And the logic won't check that the action can be done by generating levels ahead and scanning the contents, rather it'd just give them a generous set deadline and
Of course that's not supported by the current game engine, as such. In the short term it might be easier to just keep it loose and simple. They have to have a minimum of favour from the god, and if they have it, just give them paladin status back. Sure thing buddy. If they want to go on short term leave, they need to be on good terms with the employer, to get their job back..
Post by: Retropunch on July 05, 2015, 02:46:46 pm
My concern is that a lot of these penalties are vindictive and petty, and not really practical, from the god's point of view. Let's say that you've got a follower and you want to welcome them back into the fold. Do you hobble them? Do you make a whole lot of petty penalties to make their life harder? Or do you take them as they are, but make them work for it?
So, no penalties. Rather just give them paladin status back. But they're on a trial contract, they need to meet their contractual goals in order to go onto the proper employee contract. This might be not engaging in any aggression against non-evil creatures for a certain period of game time. It might be throwing some item into magma within some certain period of game time. And the logic won't check that the action can be done by generating levels ahead and scanning the contents, rather it'd just give them a generous set deadline and
Of course that's not supported by the current game engine, as such. In the short term it might be easier to just keep it loose and simple. They have to have a minimum of favour from the god, and if they have it, just give them paladin status back. Sure thing buddy. If they want to go on short term leave, they need to be on good terms with the employer, to get their job back..
I understand where you're coming from but gods ARE petty and vindictive!! To me, the sort of 'don't worry you can just come back whenever as long as you're good' just sounds too wishy-washy - Paladins are all about fire and brimstone, and proving themselves righteous, whereas this just sounds like they're a bunch of wandering Methodists ( :p ). Sacrifice is a major theme for Paladins, and it seems right that they should have to make some sacrifice to join back in.
I do like the idea of a 'quest' that they need to fulfil to join back though - that sounds like a pretty good middle way. Maybe killing a number of undead or aberrations or something might be all that's needed for now, although it would be good if something could spawn that needs to be killed.
Post by: Scoops Novel on July 06, 2015, 07:21:27 am
But all in all very well worth playing , the unique atmosphere and the indepth D&D feeling of the game system is still very solid
What's unique? I'm struggling to see the games killer feature.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 06, 2015, 07:55:04 am
Post by: Robsoie on July 06, 2015, 09:13:08 am
What's unique? I'm struggling to see the games killer feature.
Really struggling to see what's in Incursion and is not in other roguelikes ?
How many roguelike are using the D&D/d20 ruleset (with some adaption though relating to the spell system) ?
How many roguelike describe for you the surrounding when you move in it as if you were playing a classic "paper" D&D as the dungeon master would do ?
Post by: Scoops Novel on July 07, 2015, 09:26:51 am
Post by: Robsoie on July 07, 2015, 02:43:56 pm
I remember reading that the original developer wanted to make more modules, but he abadonned the game development at some point.
Then after chooseusername took over and resumed development and bug fixing, with his goal being to complete that module and stabilize the game
But there's some hope that one day in the future more modules may get in :)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139289.msg5978729;topicseen#msg5978729
Remembering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Realms:_Unlimited_Adventures
I'm still dreaming of a module editor with the Incursion game engine, but that's just a dream as even without having coding ability i can imagine this would be a huge work and would require certainly more coders to help chooseusername .
Post by: chooseusername on July 07, 2015, 03:13:33 pm
Problems that need to be overcome:
- There is a nominal amount of hard-coded Hall of the Goblin King code in the game engine. This needs to be removed, but is not a big deal.
- At this time we cannot distribute a version of the game which allows module compilation. The original plan was to do so. But it's not possible, because the script compiler contains GPL code, as the compiler compiler that was used to make it, is GPL and has a small "runtime" that is GPL licensed. This means we cannot distribute binaries with this code in it, as the GPL does not allow it. People who want to develop modules need to compile the source themselves. This is the price we pay for using GPL code.
- The Incursion engine as is, only has roguelike area generation. You start in the top level, and you descend, and difficulty is scaled as you do. A module defines areas, and pieces that will appear in the given area, but allows little control over how and where they are placed.
So, you can make a fantasy D20 module in a dungeon that goes down, where the difficulty scales as you do. But you only get procedurally generated dungeons with mild coherence. If you're looking to create a sculpted adventure, you're in the wrong place. It is after all a roguelike engine, and the game it currently offers is a roguelike game.
It's an unfinished engine. There's unused and unfinished support for quests, an overworld, multiple players, and more.. in general an open world fantasy D20 adventure. But to make something more than HotGK it needs someone willing to program in both C++ and IncursionScript. And to be honest, if the goal is to make an ASCII open world D20 fantasy roguelike, someone who was willing to do so would be hard pushed to find something better than Incursion.
Post by: chooseusername on August 13, 2015, 11:21:35 pm
Changes:
- Issue 207 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/207/): Incursion domain names finished transferring from Julian.
- Issue 209 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/209/): Make a standalone module compiler. This is as done as it can be, and it is now possible to invoke the debug Incursion executable with the '-compile' argument to get it to build the default core module 'main.irc'. '-compile <modulename.irc>' can be used instead to build other modules.
- Issue 217 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/217/): When Google Breakpad minidumping was first added, it was promptly removed when people started complaining that Error() would crash trying to do a minidump. Now in release builds, which are the only ones with Breakpad support, the Error() function allows the user to choose to try and drop a minidump.
- Issue 222 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/222/): Spelling and grammar fixes. Pull request from Carl Minden.
- Issue 231 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/231/): Help menu entries were present for content which was not present. Reported by Vornag.
- Issue 233 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/233/): Cancelling crashed when fields were encountered with no associated effect. Reported by Vornag.
- Issue 235 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/235/): Typo in text displayed when attempting to climb. Reported by Vornag.
- Issue 236 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/236/): Moving between levels crashes when an illusion stops as days pass and then the UI is refreshed but the 'between levels' coordinates of -1, -1 choke everything that consumes them. Reported by Esran Zarnath.
- Issue 239 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/239/): Secondary skill kit bonuses should be one per item type, not one per each of item type held by player. This is not ideal as there may be multiple different visual item types for instance, but at least it no longer exploitable by holding 20 viewing lenses.
- Issue 240 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/240/): Your best type of rope in your inventory should add a given bonus to climbing attempts. However, the wrong value is looked up and all ropes give +2 bonus (which is less than any rope bonus).
- Issue 243 (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/issue/243/): Remove reference to Julian, and feedback on game design. Reported by Dave Duckett.
- Spelling fix: ressurrection/ressurection -> resurrection.
- Documented script constants, noting which were unused. These are used for dungeon creation, defining how gods interact with players, and more.
Post by: Harlander on August 14, 2015, 04:45:50 am
[lAt this time we cannot distribute a version of the game which allows module compilation. The original plan was to do so. But it's not possible, because the script compiler contains GPL code, as the compiler compiler that was used to make it, is GPL and has a small "runtime" that is GPL licensed. This means we cannot distribute binaries with this code in it, as the GPL does not allow it.
If you're talking about GNU bison, its license specifically allows (http://"http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditions.html#Conditions") its output to be used in non-GPL "non-free" software.
In more general terms, you're allowed to distributed GPL software as binaries as long as the source code is also made available. (link) (http://"http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ModifiedJustBinary")
Post by: chooseusername on August 14, 2015, 05:43:31 pm
If you're talking about GNU bison, its license specifically allows (http://"http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditions.html#Conditions") its output to be used in non-GPL "non-free" software.We are not using bison, rather accent. And Incursion is intentionally not GPL, and wishes to avoid the GPL's problems, so.. we need to get rid of this tool and replace it with something that can be more freely used (in the practical sense, rather than the co-opted software freedom sense).
In more general terms, you're allowed to distributed GPL software as binaries as long as the source code is also made available. (link) (http://"http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ModifiedJustBinary")
Post by: mongrol on August 14, 2015, 10:46:21 pm
Post by: chooseusername on August 15, 2015, 04:40:27 am
Sad to see Incursion is deliberately not choosing GPL. Can I ask why?Why would we? There's no advantage or appeal in it.
Post by: ollobrains on September 11, 2015, 05:38:08 am
Post by: Rude on October 22, 2015, 01:53:54 pm
Post by: Xeron on January 26, 2016, 10:17:29 am
Post by: 0x517A5D on January 26, 2016, 03:27:42 pm
Interest bump, how's the situation going, in regards to updates and such ?
https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/commits/all (https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/commits/all)
The last commits on the public repository were on 2015-11-29. It was minor stuff, a couple of typos fixed and upgrade to Visual Studio 2015.
The last actual code changes were on 2015-09-16. They were related to self-polymorph and talking creatures. Also typos fixed: monsterous -> monstrous in a lot of places.
Doesn't look like much action in the last six months. A bunch of typo-fixing, a change in the licensing, and build-related maintenance.
This is pretty much what chooseusername intended. Maintenance, bugfixing, and code cleanup, not new features.
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2016, 01:36:12 pm
Were the prebuilt dependencies removed? Couldn't find them in the download repository.
Post by: teoleo on June 02, 2016, 08:35:42 am
Post by: chooseusername on July 22, 2016, 07:33:11 pm
I've reuploaded Y19 and the dependencies from the same date. But to be honest, it's best to use the batch script to download them and build everything, as it should give better results.
But it's stable and no-one has reported any easy to fix bugs in a long time, so if that's your definition of dead, then it's deader than a dead thing that's really really dead. If not, then it's alive and well.
Post by: cherbert on January 02, 2017, 02:48:23 pm
It's the perfect D&D roguelike!
Post by: Retropunch on January 02, 2017, 04:14:14 pm
I have only just discovered Incursion. Considering the source has been available for sometime now, I am sad nobody has yet to take up the mantel and resurrect this gem!
It's the perfect D&D roguelike!
It's unfortunately - from what I understand, the code base isn't the easiest to work with, and whilst chooseusername has done some excellent work to fix the bugs, I think any proper development would require a lot of determination.
Post by: Frumple on January 02, 2017, 07:05:10 pm
That said, at least some of the code I saw (during development, back before the source went out) didn't look that bad, at least from a content creation if not mechanics implementation standpoint. Probably could mostly figure out how to put in a new god, ferex, and I'm pretty bloody terrible at coding.
And yeah, it is a shame th'dev went on to other things. As enjoyable as Inc is, it was only ever intended to be a tech demo/testing build, ehehe. Never even really got to the good part, heh.
Post by: chooseusername on March 02, 2017, 08:02:56 pm
The current problem with the remaining bugs, is that there is little to no context. So fixing them involves prognostication. Also, when people do report bugs, they don't tend to stick around to answer follow up questions, so fixing those involves prognostication. And the problem with prognostication, is that you have to guess what the problem is, and it can more often than not become a big waste of time or just a wild goose change. However, if the reporter had just stuck around or provided a save file and said do this and this and this, when they reported it, I would have fixed the bugs already.I have only just discovered Incursion. Considering the source has been available for sometime now, I am sad nobody has yet to take up the mantel and resurrect this gem!
It's the perfect D&D roguelike!
It's unfortunately - from what I understand, the code base isn't the easiest to work with, and whilst chooseusername has done some excellent work to fix the bugs, I think any proper development would require a lot of determination.
The only reason you haven't seen fixes, is that I'm waiting for people to report bugs and stick around to provide me with reason to look into them.
There's a lot of historical code which Incursion would benefit from removing. But there's also benefits from that code, which makes it difficult to justify removing it (it helps detect memory corruption or new bugs in stati/modifiers). But other than that, the code is quite simple to work with.
Post by: chooseusername on March 02, 2017, 08:05:13 pm
That... sounds about right? Iirc the first dev was in the process of rejiggering things on that front when life/lack of interest/other projects sideswiped Inc itself.Yes, it's quite a remarkable engine, but as you point out it has hard limits imposed by it's design as a tech demo/testing prototype. As such a lot of the design decisions are for that demo, and there would be some rewriting required to get it to do much else.
That said, at least some of the code I saw (during development, back before the source went out) didn't look that bad, at least from a content creation if not mechanics implementation standpoint. Probably could mostly figure out how to put in a new god, ferex, and I'm pretty bloody terrible at coding.
And yeah, it is a shame th'dev went on to other things. As enjoyable as Inc is, it was only ever intended to be a tech demo/testing build, ehehe. Never even really got to the good part, heh.
e.g. IIRC Difficulty and level generation downwards are tied together. There are HotGK specific things hard-coded into the general engine code. Etc.
I think that Incursion the game has a lot of charm, often because of it's engine choices (atmosphere text) and depth of game/gameplay (fights going on elsewhere in the level), and there's a good argument that the engine can be rejiggered to be the base for other great games. But as many upsides as there are, there are as many downsides, and many of them are roadblocks for a programmer choosing to work with the engine.
e.g. The GPL'd parser Accent, used for scripts. Cumbersome low level code used as mentioned in my previous post.
Post by: Frumple on March 02, 2017, 08:39:42 pm
Post by: Kagus on March 03, 2017, 03:39:56 pm
I still remember having a gnomish warrior with Faster Than the Eye and a beltload of various magic wands. Was quite the gunslinger, or should I say wandslinger? Fellow died a most tragic of deaths though; he got tagged by some fiendish giant tortoise or something in a summoning room, and was inflicted with a mean CON-damage disease that eventually just ate him up despite my best efforts. He's the reason I now make a point of taking the Healing skill on every character.
Might have to try making a halfling rogue sometime to get some more ridiculous usage out of Use Item/Decipher Script, while also sidelining into just generally throwing shit at people.
Hehehe, I still remember the old days when slings were classified as a "thrown" weapon, and as such any creature who spawned with a sling and bullets would initiate combat by hurling the strip of leather at their opponent, disarming themselves.
Post by: chooseusername on March 03, 2017, 05:10:23 pm
Which is perhaps unsurprising considering the game's (decade+, mostly-one-man, very much hobbyist) development cycle, heh. From what I recall things got kinda' messy near-ish J's tapering off/heading on to other things, which is why the development more or less ended while they were in the process of (starting) to refactor the lot of it.
It is indeed remarkable what he managed to create, and how special it is.
Post by: teoleo on January 31, 2019, 09:03:35 am
Post by: Kagus on February 06, 2019, 04:36:31 am
Hmm, latest download is from 2016... yeah, doesn't look too promising.
Post by: Robsoie on February 06, 2019, 08:04:21 am
But it does not seem to be that dead as there was still bug fixing / maintenance (no new content) commits in december :
https://bitbucket.org/rmtew/incursion-roguelike/commits/all
No actual download though since 2016 sadly, look like you need to compile the thing yourself unfortunately if you can.