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[Truean]

http://news.yahoo.com/hurt-arizona-immigration-law-hispanics-organize-070343097.html

So Justice Kagan recused herself, which is something another Supreme Court Justice didn't have the decency to do when he was involved in a case with the vice president, so because of that the Arizona law will now be upheld at least in part. Historically, traditionally, this was a simple thing: federal issue, separation of powers, the states were to keep out of it. The law would've been barking up the wrong tree, plain and simple. So basically no matter how SCOTUS phrases it, they will be carving out an exception against basically all precedent.

"Roberts tried to cut off the argument that the Arizona law would lead to ethnic and racial profiling of Hispanics by interrupting the government attorney's opening statement and asserting that profiling was not at issue in the case."
.... WTF is this? You won't even listen to arguments about racial profiling, because it's "not an issue...?" What's it like in make believe land? Alabama who has already passed a similar law has shown that Toyota executives and their visiting Asian investors have been harassed by this policy because essentially they aren't white. "It isn't an issue?" Really? This case has nothing to do with that whatsoever? This case has everything to do with that, because it's basically a "if you're brown have your papers on you at any and all times in case you're so much as pulled over," law.

16% of the US is Hispanic. I guess once states enact similar laws, they can all start carrying their birth certificates or other papers....

No, this needs to be a federal, uniform policy under traditional federal question and international relations principles. If the INS isn't doing its job or cant because the problem outpaces its funding, then deal with that, not a patchwork of laws. This will make Criminal Defense a nightmare and the court doesn't care.

[Reelya]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/alabama-rethinks-its-harsh-immigration-law-11232011.html

LMAO! Alabama put harsh anti-immigrant laws in place, now they're suffering financially as a direct result.

“I was really embarrassed and overwhelmed,” says State Senator Gerald Dial. “Mercedes has done more to change the image of Alabama than just about anything else. We don’t want to upset those people.” Dial, a conservative Republican who voted for the law in June along with every other GOP state legislator but one, started having second thoughts soon after the statute went into effect in late September. Fearful of being deported, immigrants fled the state by the thousands, resulting in labor shortages.

[ChairmanPoo]

Here the goverment has enacted a law that prevents illegal immigrants from accessing healthcare.

I think it's a load of right-wing populist BS, for the record. I very much doubt those immigrants represent any significant ammount of healthcare expenses, and technically they're still paying for it via indirect taxes. Hell, for that matter, public healthcare at the moment is even cheap when compared with other western nations. It's problem at the healthcare at the moment is that the fuckers in the govt are looking to balance their budget by slashing it's financing, instead of, say, the church's funding, the monarchy's, or a couple of foreign military missions (fun fact: by suppressing the cash they give to the church ALONE they'd get the money to fund two thirds of the supposed "healthcare deficit")

[Blargityblarg]

Well, other than maybe Australia and NZ, I am struggling to think of a country with an effective and fair immigration system. Here in the UK being an island hasnt helped us at all, what with the volume of air and sea traffic, and that pesky tunnel to France.

There are quite a few things wrong with the Australian immigration system; mostly they seem to spring from not having any idea where to put asylum seekers: there's always a news article about detention centres in the paper, or about deals with Indonesia or PNG to house them in exchange for whatever. I'm not sure how much of it is just media bloat of a small problem, though- 'boat people' is basically the Australian version of 'God, Guns & Gays', except both parties are competing in the same direction.

[GlyphGryph]

And people still slip in.

And they still aren't the cause of all social problems.

...yes...? Or was this more of an addendum/followup than a response?

In which case, yes, they certainly aren't.

[Truean]

And people still slip in.

And they still aren't the cause of all social problems.

...yes...? Or was this more of an addendum/followup than a response?

In which case, yes, they certainly aren't.

Meh, there are legitimate problems with the whole "illegal immigrants being here," thing. However, it balances out once you realize that they pick all the food out of the fields, which let's face it, nobody here wants to do/can do. And to prove it, the Mexicans challenged the gringos to "take their jobs!" which is to say actually work in the fields in the hot sun. Some cocky white people tried; they were treated for heat exhaustion. Without illegal immigrants not only performing practically free for what they do labor, the food will literally rot in the fields because we have no way to pick it. Look at the tone of those articles. The first one is basically trying to remain dismissive of a valid point while being forced to admit its validity. The second, meh. By the way, I did labor similar to this once, picking in a greenhouse when I was 14, which actually made it hotter. Got less than minimum wage for it too cause you know "agricultural" means rural workers get screwed.

So when you wonder why some of the food is costing so much, some of it is gas prices, but some of it is also defacto labor shortages with illegal immigrants fleeing crackdowns.

Yes, there are problems, large ones, legitimate ones. However, we like to think that we're technologically advanced, what with our gizmos and gadgets. There's no app for picking crops and there's no machine, or if there is then it's prohibitively expensive. So we want the incredibly low cost labor, but we don't want to do anything to make it reasonable...?

[EveryZig]

I still find it strange to treat people differently on the basis of where they were born. It just seems just as arbitrary as treating them differently based on skin color.

[sluissa]

I still find it strange to treat people differently on the basis of where they were born. It just seems just as arbitrary as treating them differently based on skin color.

^ This = biggest argument for immigration reform in the direction of more openness.

[kaijyuu]

Whilst I'd love open borders everywhere, it'd cause a hell of a lot of economic problems. See: the USA's Gilded Age unemployment, current era globalization, etc.


The world economy's all sorts of messed up, giving people benefits for living in a certain area. Fix that, then you can fix immigration/emmigration.

[Frumple]

That's, uh, a helluva' task. You're basically saying you have to fix the world (as in, the actual physical world and its resource distribution) before you can fix border crossing issues.

Which... hell, maybe. In the mean time, we can probably at least improve things, at the least.

[MonkeyHead]

People often forget the effect on the areas people move away from - especially if your most intelligent, hard working, younger, innovative and dynamic individuals are the ones being attracted to a "better" life elsewhere. Pretty sure that sets up some kind of negative feedback loop...

[kaijyuu]

In the mean time, we can probably at least improve things, at the least.

Certainly.


It's just not a cut and dry issue, not by a long shot.

[Sirus]

It's just not a cut and dry issue, not by a long shot.

Few issues are, in my experience.

[kaijyuu]

Some are.

Gay marriage for everyone!

[Criptfeind]

Especially the filthy heterosexuals.