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Author Topic: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread  (Read 1247465 times)

RedKing

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2340 on: July 24, 2012, 07:45:17 am »

My .02 on this issue:
1. Chik-Fil-A is goddamn delicious. Morally unacceptable, but delicious. Thankfully, if I really need to get my chicken sandwich on I have Bojangles.
2. My beef (and most others') with Chik-Fil-A isn't that the CEO has certain attitudes. It's that he's donating corporate funds to organizations which are *actively* trying to disenfranchise members of society.
3. The boycott isn't intended to "coerce" behavior changes on the part of Chik-Fil-A. I doubt they can be coerced. Why? Because they're the only major chain fast food place I know of that's closed on Sundays. That's pretty remarkable, and I always respected that because it meant that they weren't just about making more money. I still respect that, even if I shun them for their ties to groups that I utterly oppose.
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GreatJustice

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2341 on: July 24, 2012, 10:15:57 am »

A hypothetical situation that relies on my understanding of copyright law and those who are against it:

At some point in the future, a food company breeds a new variety of fish. This fish is fast-growing, easy to care for, and most importantly of all is tasty and nutritious. This effort takes years and quite a lot of money.

Shortly after the fish is announced and the fish farms are set up, a rival company manages to steal a few breeding pairs and breed his own fish, who breed more fish, etc. Those are given to other companies, who breed and pass them on, etc. Now pretty much everyone has a fish of their own and the original company made zero profit off of the time and money spent.

Now, fish aren't digital downloads or whatever, but is it really so bad for an artist to ask for appreciation and compensation for his/her/their work? Yes, a number of products have been successful despite being free, but I'm fairly certain that they are the exception, not the rule, and either the makers of those products have to pursue a career (thus lowering productivity) or they subsist on donations like Toady.

Like I implied at the beginning, copyright law is not my strongpoint.

In that case, the other company in question stole the fish outright. Similarly, I wouldn't be in favour of breaking into stores and stealing hard copies of Diablo III, either.

A more apt analogy would be the one company developing the wonderfish, followed by the other company observing them and trying to figure out how to make them themselves (Which could take a while). For a while, the developers have a clear-cut advantage, but eventually other companies start to make the same fish.

Patents and copyright still don't make much sense. Yes, an innovating company loses its monopoly once another company figures out how to do what they do cheaper and/or with higher quality. That's how the market works. Such companies still have the massive advantage of starting off with the new product, and it will doubtless take time for others to get around to copying them and improving on things, meaning they still get rewarded for innovation.

Meanwhile, with patents and copyright, you create minefields that no one wants to navigate without a small army of lawyers since they might accidentally infringe on someone else's obscure work and get sued to all hell or they might put all their effort into inventing something only to get one-upped by a "submarine patent" and have to pay someone who did jack all for "permission" to use their "idea".
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As for Paul:
What else could 'private property rights on the internet' possible mean? It's a euphemism for copyright law. You don't own a car on the internet. You don't own land on the internet. Unless he's talking about swords in your MMO, which I highly doubt, he is talking specifically about copyright laws.

Paypal, Bitcoin, buying stuff from Amazon (which, might I mention, moved states due to taxes), etc etc etc

It's worth mentioning that whenever Ron Paul talks about "protecting private property", he generally means that in the context of "against the government". I haven't seen many cases of him standing up for copyright on any occasion.
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 Hell, just the sheer fact that he does not rail against the dangers of the overly strict copyright law shows he is for it; you can't simply ignore something of that magnitude in a document about internet "freedom" unless you are actively supporting it!

Now that isn't playing fair. Yeah, he doesn't regularly rail against copyright. He's busy railing against the Fed, foreign wars, the drug wars, taxes, gun laws, etc etc etc. Its worth noting that other progressive "ideal" types like Al Gore, Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Obama himself (though I honestly see him more as a fascist), and so on basically never rail against copyright, but I don't see you accusing them of being lackeys for corporations on the issue of copyright.
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EveryZig

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2342 on: July 24, 2012, 10:30:46 am »

Its worth noting that other progressive "ideal" types like Al Gore, Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Obama himself (though I honestly see him more as a fascist), and so on basically never rail against copyright, but I don't see you accusing them of being lackeys for corporations on the issue of copyright.
This forum actually has done that (particularly in Obama's case) on numerous occasions. Remember the 'does anyone actually like the candidate they are planning on voting for' thread?
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scriver

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2343 on: July 24, 2012, 10:47:56 am »

That's how the market works with copy right laws. Without them, one company will just bribe an employee of the other to share the product with them, and then start to sell the products themselves.
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RedKing

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2344 on: July 24, 2012, 10:49:07 am »

That's how the market works with copy right laws. Without them, one company will just bribe an employee of the other to share the product with them, and then start to sell the products themselves.
Also known as "China".
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ggamer

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2345 on: July 24, 2012, 10:51:35 am »

I think ggamer is trying to say it's ok to discriminate against gay people if they're obviously gay, because...?

...No, that's not at all the point I was trying to make. What i'm trying to say is that the social climate is a little more different in Georgia, but not so much more different that we're lynching gays.

I'm not really sure what you got that from.

GreatJustice

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2346 on: July 24, 2012, 11:35:49 am »

That's how the market works with copy right laws. Without them, one company will just bribe an employee of the other to share the product with them, and then start to sell the products themselves.

Which would be breaking the law in an entirely different way. "We can't get rid of this law because then people would break an entirely different law and that would cause problems" is not a valid argument.
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2347 on: July 24, 2012, 11:59:12 am »

I'm less inclined to befriend overly camp people because they tend to annoy the fuck out of me.
Really? I tend to find... unusual people like that to be far more interesting to talk to.


I guess it really depends on the person in question. Could be really annoying, might not be.
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For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Leafsnail

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2348 on: July 24, 2012, 12:09:00 pm »

...No, that's not at all the point I was trying to make. What i'm trying to say is that the social climate is a little more different in Georgia, but not so much more different that we're lynching gays.

I'm not really sure what you got that from.
Why did you bring up "blatant homosexuality" in the first place then?
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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2349 on: July 24, 2012, 12:11:04 pm »

He was saying there aren't witch hunts for it, is all. People are only harassed, abused, and discriminated about it if they leave the closet.

I guess that's better than witch hunts, at least...
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

RedKing

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2350 on: July 24, 2012, 12:23:08 pm »

He was saying there aren't witch hunts for it, is all. People are only harassed, abused, and discriminated about it if they leave the closet.

I guess that's better than witch hunts, at least...


"How do you know he is a gay?"
"He looks like one!"
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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2351 on: July 24, 2012, 12:27:18 pm »

It's a really lazy witch hunt.
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lordcooper

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2352 on: July 24, 2012, 12:54:28 pm »

I'm less inclined to befriend overly camp people because they tend to annoy the fuck out of me.
Really? I tend to find... unusual people like that to be far more interesting to talk to.


I guess it really depends on the person in question. Could be really annoying, might not be.

Unusual is cool, intentionally turning yourself into a walking stereotype is much less so.
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kaijyuu

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2353 on: July 24, 2012, 12:55:17 pm »

Haha, agree with you there, so long as it's deliberately turning themselves into a stereotype.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

alway

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Re: PoH's Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« Reply #2354 on: July 24, 2012, 01:05:55 pm »

Speaking of which.
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Police in Lincoln, Neb., are investigating the case of a 33-year-old woman who told police three men wearing ski masks broke into her home early Sunday, bound her wrists and ankles with zip ties, beat her and carved anti-gay slurs into her arms and abdomen.

The men also allegedly spray painted a derogatory term for lesbians inside the home and poured gasoline around the house before lighting it with a match. The fire caused no noticeable damage to the house, a city fire inspector said.
Dunno; sounds like a lynching to me. Though Nebraska in this case.
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