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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[miauw62]

X is making like, a PS2 reality series apparantly.

Anyway, higher vehicle speeds needed to instagib players?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

[Haschel]

•Projectile speed was increased.
•Damage at range was increased.

Oh great, because time to kill was way too long. I mean, sometimes I lived for half a second or even a full second after someone started shooting at me! We can't have that! 

I think that was just referring to the Vanu, since it says "damage at range" and I'm pretty sure only the Vanu weapons diminish in damage the further they get.

Someone on the game's forums did damage testing and all faction guns had falloff damage (sniper rifles included). I also know for a fact that one of TR's light machine gun has a high velocity ammo add-on that "increases damage at long range" and many gun descriptions have a similar saying.

•Sunderers are now available at every vehicle terminal that offers the Flash.
•Reduced lock-on range of Heavy Assault anti-ground vehicle launchers (500 meters was overkill)

I'm not sure about this sunderer change... Where you would normally have seen one or two in a small/medium battle, there's going to be four or more. Where there was easily 5-6 in a large battle, there's going to be... Easily 10 or more, I wouldn't be surprised to see an entire convoy of sunderers leading out of small bases. I think the change is an ok one, but sunderers honestly need to be weaker. It shouldn't take more than 3 heavy assaults launching rockets to take one out, but that usually isn't enough. The rocket launcher lock-on nerf was simply unnecessary, if you can get a lock-on from that range it's the driver's fault for not utilizing cover. Tanks can fire effectively from ludicrous ranges anyway, nerfing the counter-measure is a bad idea.

[miauw62]

Mayby the sundie change will help against utter rape that happens when a large battle just captured a major base and is moving out to smaller bases so they can rape them.
What i would like to see is that i could walk around in the spawnroom of a small base when there's a prowler parked on each exit and not be blown up the moment they see me.
It's frustrating to be spawncamped, its even MORE frustrating to be raped by tanks trough walls. Especially if YOU cant fire trough those forcefields.

[Sordid]

Sunderers honestly need to be weaker.

No kidding. I can take out an MBT with two bricks of C4, but a frickin' bus takes three? Double-yoo tee eff? Sense. That makes none.

[TheBronzePickle]

Oh, god, more sunderers? Those things are fucking evil. Once one parks, it takes a concentrated effort by at least a squad or a very, very dedicated HA soldier or tank with nobody defending the thing to kill it, and until then the base is going to be swamped with a constant stream of soldiers. And now there's going to be at least 10 of them in each assault.

[Gidoran]

RE: C4 and Vehicles, there is directional/locational damage folks. I've killed Magriders and Vanguards with a single C4 brick to the rear, everywhere else takes two. Same with Sunderer, single brick to the rear at least sets it on fire. But the Sundy being a bit 'beefier' than tanks actually makes a bit of sense, at least where C4 is concerned. Given that they seem to not be shaped charges and are just literal bricks of explosives you toss on to a thing, they're not going to have much in the way of penetration capability, and a Sunderer seems to be based a lot on the MRAP concept rather than an APC.

Meanwhile, a Tank armor is generally structured to maximize frontal protection, and generally they try to present only the front, or a slanted hull to increase effective thickness of both frontal and side armor. Infantry armed with anti-tank weaponry usually are effective because they're shooting them from behind or above, hitting the weaker rear/top armor. But all of these are ranged threats; the armor is much less effective against dealing with an explosive placed flat against the hull, even if it's not a shaped charge.

And, from a gameplay standpoint, it'd be kind of pointless if a sunderer could be taken out without serious effort, as you'd really be unable to maintain any kind of effective push.

Also, for those who've been Prowler-stomped in a spawn room, speaking as a Prowler commander I apologize somewhat, but you can fire out at me. Several people have killed me when I got a little too bloodthirsty by dropping a couple of RPGs down my throat before I could reorient my hull and get out of dodge.

[Sordid]

RE: C4 and Vehicles, there is directional/locational damage folks. I've killed Magriders and Vanguards with a single C4 brick to the rear, everywhere else takes two.

Well then the game's bullshit just based on that. There is no tank in the world that has top armor twice as thick as rear armor AFAIK. I've been throwing my C4 on top of tanks based on the assumption that their armor is distributed the same way as on real tanks.

Same with Sunderer, single brick to the rear at least sets it on fire. But the Sundy being a bit 'beefier' than tanks actually makes a bit of sense, at least where C4 is concerned. Given that they seem to not be shaped charges and are just literal bricks of explosives you toss on to a thing, they're not going to have much in the way of penetration capability, and a Sunderer seems to be based a lot on the MRAP concept rather than an APC.

The MRAP is an APC, and even if it's an especially tough one it still makes no sense for it to be tougher than a tank.

And, from a gameplay standpoint, it'd be kind of pointless if a sunderer could be taken out without serious effort, as you'd really be unable to maintain any kind of effective push.

I disagree completely. It's supposed to be about teamwork and coordination, having an invincible spawn point doesn't really require that. You just park it and the zerg that emerges from it takes care of things. A weaker sunderer would require some dedicated defense in the form of infantry and preferably also some tanks.

[TheBronzePickle]

From a gameplay standpoint, I once faced a sunderer parked right outside of a shielded base with a zerg swarm coming out of it and maybe 2 engineers keeping it repaired. It was the only vehicle the enemy had, and we had probably just as many soldiers defending the base as they had attacking.

We lost the base.

Sunderers are really, really OP.

As for the MRAP, that's still weaker than a tank. Modern MBTs can pretty well handle any weapon that isn't specifically made to destroy them. C4 that isn't shaped oftentimes is almost completely useless against tanks, and in several cases has been used in such scenarios as helping an Abrams get out of a mudpit or ditch by literally blowing it out of the ground without damaging it.

[Sordid]

Also, I'm not so sure the C4 in PS2 is not a shaped charge. I see no reason why it couldn't be, and indeed I'd expect it to be given that it's a tool for taking out tanks, gun turrets, and other hardened targets.

[Gidoran]

I'm guessing that you guys didn't have a squad just pack up and say 'Let's kill that Sunderer', and lay down fire to suppress/kill the engineers while bombarding it? You didn't specify any specific tactic you had, so the only one I can go off of is the strategy that I see the NC/VS use all the time of 'Run up one or two at a time and hit it with a rocket then run out of ammunition because they've got engineers repairing it', and that's exactly the wrong thing to do with any kind of active, defended Sunderer.

And my point with MRAP vs Tank was the MRAP is designed to resist multiple kinds of explosives, including RPGs, and keep going. Sure, an MRAP would be gutted by an M829 or M830 round from an Abrams, but the same can be said for the Sunderer. Tank vs Sunderer, the tank wins, as it should. But for infantry trying to kill it, yes, you actually have to work with other people. A Sunderer by itself is not invincible, but one that has a lot of infantry protecting it and repairing it? Yeah, that's pretty hard to take down, because it should be. They are focusing their efforts to keeping it alive, so why shouldn't you be expected to need multiple people to take it down yourself?

Sordid, it may in fact be a bug or unintentional that top armor is 'stronger' than the rear, or it may just be a side effect of how it's coded. Still, try the rear, it works wonders. And for C4 being a shaped charge or not, it could very well be that it is in fact. I assume it's not because of how often I notice it just makes a 'bloom' explosion that does equal damage in all directions. Of course, it could be some future successor to C4 that is able to switch based on situation between multiple detonation styles.

Edit: Typographical errors, why do you haunt me.

[forsaken1111]

When I saw a parked sunderer yesterday I just aimed splash weaponry at the spawn area and don't worry about killing the sunderer itself. People stop spawning there after they die 1-2 times immediately.

[TheBronzePickle]

The sunderer was under pretty brutal barrage. Unfortunately, the zerg swarm absorbed half the rockets meant for the sunderer itself, and the other half did not kill it before it could be repaired.

As for the C4 being a shaped charge, shaped charges have to face a certain direction to work. It's not that easy to throw a shaped charge so it sticks the way you need it to, I've tried. Of course, the soldiers don't really throw it so much as lob it, so it's a fair enough argument. Still, it shouldn't 1-shot tanks unless it's not Composition C4 and is, in fact, a much more powerful explosive like a cubane-based explosive, or some kind of heightened-density explosive.

Or it's just a lot bigger than it looks.

[Haschel]

The problem with a sunderer isn't just that it takes too many hits for a single person to take out reliably... It's that it takes too many hits for a focused group to take out as long as the spawning infantry aren't complete morons. Sunderers only weakness with a non moronic squad is multiple tanks firing upon it from the flanks with backup to provide cover fire so they don't take 5 rockets from the spawning infantry. Now, multiply this problem by 5 sunderers. At once. In the same area, and in multiple OTHER areas.

[TheBronzePickle]

Did I mention that 1v1, a fully-crewed Sunderer can take on any MBT in the game and win? The two base guns do enough damage to tanks that they can chip through a tank's armor before the tank can fire enough shells to kill the sunderer.

[Sordid]

And my point with MRAP vs Tank was the MRAP is designed to resist multiple kinds of explosives, including RPGs, and keep going. Sure, an MRAP would be gutted by an M829 or M830 round from an Abrams, but the same can be said for the Sunderer. Tank vs Sunderer, the tank wins, as it should. But for infantry trying to kill it, yes, you actually have to work with other people. A Sunderer by itself is not invincible, but one that has a lot of infantry protecting it and repairing it? Yeah, that's pretty hard to take down, because it should be. They are focusing their efforts to keeping it alive, so why shouldn't you be expected to need multiple people to take it down yourself?

It's not about which would win in a sundy vs tank match, the problem is that the sundy is tougher than a tank is. The sunderer is very tough with limited offensive ability whereas a tank is not very durable (relative to the sundy) and has powerful weapons. A tank should be stronger in both offense and defense than an APC, even a very tough APC.

Sordid, it may in fact be a bug or unintentional that top armor is 'stronger' than the rear, or it may just be a side effect of how it's coded. Still, try the rear, it works wonders.

I'll test it and if it turns out to be true I'll report it as a bug. Not that they don't have much more important things to worry about, such as oh I don't know, putting the third continent into the game and debugging it in less than a month.

And for C4 being a shaped charge or not, it could very well be that it is in fact. I assume it's not because of how often I notice it just makes a 'bloom' explosion that does equal damage in all directions. Of course, it could be some future successor to C4 that is able to switch based on situation between multiple detonation styles.

Oooh, it'd be very very neat if C4 did extra damage to whatever it's attached to. I don't know if that's how it works, but it'd be awesome.