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Author Topic: More reasonable name generation in future updates? Would help with readability..  (Read 3116 times)

Baleur

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Well, I think the biggest reason right now that it is so mind-bending headache-inducing to read long lines of text in DF is because the names make no sense what so ever.
For instance, read the following 2 examples, the first in true DF style and the second in a normal human being non-psychopath style.

"Hello, I am Ast Urighzur from The Mountainhomes of The Valley behind Artbananas Yellowfire. I bring word from my king, the leader of Urbanunderwear The Portal of Underwear."

"Hello, I am Ast Urighzur from The Banana Mountainhomes. I bring word from my king, the leader of The Coven of Underwear."

Which is easier to read? The randomization in DF, while providing interesting results, is some of the worst i've ever seen in a game. The problem is that it interferes with gameplay and usability. It is VERY hard to remember any names of any places, dwarves or civilizations because of how illogical their names are. I am so tired of never remembering my own fort name or what religion most of my dwarves follow.
There is so much interesting depth and information in DF, like the religion/cult the dwarves follow, the history of said cults and events, and the places themselves.
This is why I can't play Adventure mode, no matter how badly i want to. I can't remember any names of any quest, enemies, places, events or stories.
It's a real shame, that something so small can have such a massive negative effect on usability.

I feel like all of that amazing depth is lost, utterly scrambled and ruined, because of how awful the randomly generated names are. It is very hard for you to actually read and remember these things. It would be awesome to be able to do that, to remember the names and events, rather than just seeing a jumbled mess of words you will forget in 5 minutes again.
All that history that is generated is wasted due to this.

This also ties in with how dwarven names are sometimes translated to english, with no explanation of why or when that is. This also impacts usability a great deal.
If i look at a dwarf called Urist Burznikuk, then i want to find him in another screen, it turns out his surname is now translated to english!
How am i supposed to find that dwarf now, without a google-dwarf-translate window up at all times?
It makes no sense to seperate it like this ingame, keep it consistent instead for usability. Either have it always be dwarven names, or always english. Have a .ini setting for the player to choose wich he prefers.
Anything is better than a random illogical mix.
And I'm studying both Mandarin and Hangul at the moment, so it's not like i've got a usual problem with reading or comprehending strange words or syllables.
It's more a matter of logic, if it is illogical our brains have great difficulty reading it.

Thoughts?
Finally I must ask if there is a mod out there that improves the random name generation, thanks.  :-*
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:34:21 pm by Baleur »
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exolyx

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I'm not speaking on anyone but my own behalf, but I'm pretty sure that everyone gets used to it eventually. I consider the inane names integral to gameplay, if they were simple the dwarves would- on the contrary, be harder to remember. Imagine that they didn't have names like urist dimpledcudgel, but were more abbreviated. The names would be more mixed up. They add a bit of ludicrousness to make it an overall enjoyable experience. Again, this is my opinion.
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TurkeyXIII

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Baleur your DF-style one isn't exactly DF-style anyway.  Place names tend to be either Nounnoun or Nounverb, while group names are either The Adjective Noun(s) or The Noun of [Verbing or Nouns].

So your DF-style example would be:
"Hello, I am Ast Urighzur from the mountainhomes of Bananafire. I bring word from my king, the leader of The Portal of Underwear."
Unless you've custom-named your places and groups.

To me, Bananafire is more memorable that Banana on its own.
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CodexDraco

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I think DF names are fine. They are amusing. The problem is that the game generates way too much names for insignificant stuff. How I'm supposed to remember that my civilization is called The tongs of doom if there are hundreds of other similarly named groups.

IMO the game should only name civilizations, sites, artifacts and notable groups. Other things should have generic names (it does some of this already, like the second battle of Steelbarrels, etc)
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Finely minced dwarven wine... what?

Baleur

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I'm not speaking on anyone but my own behalf, but I'm pretty sure that everyone gets used to it eventually. I consider the inane names integral to gameplay, if they were simple the dwarves would- on the contrary, be harder to remember. Imagine that they didn't have names like urist dimpledcudgel, but were more abbreviated. The names would be more mixed up. They add a bit of ludicrousness to make it an overall enjoyable experience. Again, this is my opinion.

I never had any problem with the dwarf names.
The problem with those is just that the game randomly shows the dwarvish surnames, then the english-translated surnames. With no clear reason why.
For example if you check a dwarfs thoughts they might display their partner with the english surname, yet when you look in the job or units list they list with the dwarven surname.
That's stupid, and leads to confusion on what dwarf is who.
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Azated

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I like the random generation. It means that you're more likely to remember a particularly interesting fortress/dwarf/goblin/whatever because their name is interesting too.

I never had any problem with the dwarf names.
The problem with those is just that the game randomly shows the dwarvish surnames, then the english-translated surnames. With no clear reason why.
For example if you check a dwarfs thoughts they might display their partner with the english surname, yet when you look in the job or units list they list with the dwarven surname.
That's stupid, and leads to confusion on what dwarf is who.

That's what nicknames are for.
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Then it happened. Then I cringed. Then I picked it up and beat him to death with it, and then his buddies, too.
You beat a man to death with his dick?

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weenog

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Inconsistency between showing the name and its translation is a bit of a pain, I dislike it too.  But the naming procedure is kind of awesome.  It gave me Ballworked the wardog.  A beast so menacing, he's threatening your testicles even though they haven't been coded yet.
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

exolyx

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It gave me Ballworked the wardog.  A beast so menacing, he's threatening your testicles even though they haven't been coded yet.

Can I sig that?
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Rex_Nex

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I never had any problem with the dwarf names.
The problem with those is just that the game randomly shows the dwarvish surnames, then the english-translated surnames. With no clear reason why.
For example if you check a dwarfs thoughts they might display their partner with the english surname, yet when you look in the job or units list they list with the dwarven surname.
That's stupid, and leads to confusion on what dwarf is who.

That's what nicknames are for.

"Inconsistency is okay because you can fix it yourself" is always a bad argument.
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weenog

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It gave me Ballworked the wardog.  A beast so menacing, he's threatening your testicles even though they haven't been coded yet.

Can I sig that?

Sig away.
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

Baleur

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I never had any problem with the dwarf names.
The problem with those is just that the game randomly shows the dwarvish surnames, then the english-translated surnames. With no clear reason why.
For example if you check a dwarfs thoughts they might display their partner with the english surname, yet when you look in the job or units list they list with the dwarven surname.
That's stupid, and leads to confusion on what dwarf is who.

That's what nicknames are for.

"Inconsistency is okay because you can fix it yourself" is always a bad argument.

Is there some sort of taboo on these forums for suggesting improvements?
I've noticed it here before too.
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Cruxador

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I have honestly never had any sort of problem with DF naming.

Unless you count being annoyed that the surnames are not familial/heritable, and titles are separate from surnames and also pure random rather than procedural based on achievement.
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vidboi

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Is there some sort of taboo on these forums for suggesting improvements?
I've noticed it here before too.

Is there some sort of rule that says we have to like your suggestions? I, and from the looks of it, lots of other players like the naming system. If you simplified the system you'd likely end up with repeated names which would be even more confusing. I've never had much of a problem with dwarven and english names as the thoughts screen is the only one where the english translation is used without the dwarven (and it kind of makes sense, it's what their thinking, not saying, so you get the meaning behind the name), and if I'm looking for relations I'll use the relations screen. Yes, with a lot of dwarves it can be confusing, but that's why the nickname and profession name functions are there; so you can make it easier.
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weenog

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Is there some sort of taboo on these forums for suggesting improvements?
I've noticed it here before too.

Nah, you just need to remember a few important things.
  • Suggestions go on the DF Suggestions board.
  • Search thoroughly before you post, and make sure your suggestion is something new instead of a rehash of something that's come up repeatedly.
  • Do not come at the forums with suggestions that amount to "I'm lazy and/or thoughtless, make it easier!"  You will be ripped apart by the players who play the game because it's challenging, which is most of them.

You failed at 1.  I don't care enough to check 2.  And considering your entire original post could be condensed to "I can't be bothered to remember my dwarves' actual names, nor change their names to something I find memorable, therefore the game sucks and needs to change to fit my 2 second attention span", you failed at 3 too.
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

GreatWyrmGold

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Well-put, weenog.
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