Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[splinterz]

yes, i've also added a fishable category for creatures as well. currently moghoppers are the only fish used for extraction in vanilla.

i have no idea if the colors and shapes affect anything.

[khearn]

I'm doing some science on the returns one gets from butchering, so I've been using DT to look at animal sizes, and I'm seeing odd numbers.

For example, I'm seeing freshly hatched turkeys that DT says have a size of ~1200, but the raws for turkeys say:
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:85]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:2500]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:5000]

So at birth they should be size 85. Now, the numbers I was seeing seem to be about halfway between age zero and 1 year, and they take 6 months to hatch, so I was thinking that maybe birds start counting from when the egg is laid. But I just had a cow calf become adult (1 year old). DT says its size is 617030, but the raw for cows say:
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:100000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:250000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:600000]

So DT is saying that it's over twice the size it ought to be at one year old. It's the size it ought to be at 2 years, but it just became adult, and DT says it is 1 year old.

Every animal I look at seems to be much bigger than the ought to be, based on the raws. Newly hatch blue peafowls are ~1000, when the raws say:
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:100]
[BODY_SIZE:0:168:2000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:4000]
So at birth they should be size 100 (or 2000 if the clock starts when the egg is laid).

Newborn sheep are ~12000, their raws are:
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:5000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:25000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:50000]
So they should be 5000, or 15000 if the clock starts at the beginning of pregnancy.

So I'm wondering if DT is displaying incorrect sizes, or if DF is making the animals the wrong size? Are we sure that DT is getting the correct values for size? Is it possible that they are stored in some unit other than the one used in the raws?

Or am I misunderstanding how BODY_SIZE relates to the animals actual size? I know that there is some variation, but it should only be +/- ~30%, not what I'm seeing.


Hmmm, but looking at some adults, a 5 year old dog is 29470, and the raws say it should be 30000, so that's right. And a 6 year old boar is 50810, and the raws say 60000. That's small, but within the range of possibles. So maybe it's a DF bug, but I wanted to check here first to see what you guys say. Is there another way I can check animal sizes?

Thanks for any help you can offer. My science is pretty much stuck until I understand the sizes of the animals I'm butchering.

    Keith

Edit: The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this must be a DF bug. I don't see how DT could be reporting reasonable values for adults and be screwing up the child sizes.

[splinterz]

something is definitely off with the bodysizes in DT, i'll check it out.

[khearn]

Heh. And here I was convinced it couldn't be DT and created a mantis bug about it. Let me know if you're sure it's a DT problem, so I can close the mantis bug.

   Keith

[splinterz]

Heh. And here I was convinced it couldn't be DT and created a mantis bug about it. Let me know if you're sure it's a DT problem, so I can close the mantis bug.

   Keith

i'm certain it's a combination of unfinished code and incorrect offsets in DT.

[khearn]

Ok, I'll go ahead and close the mantis bug. Thanks for letting me know.

Do you know of another way to check animal size values?

   Keith

[smjjames]

When will this be updated for 40.12? Just wondering.

[Chimerat]

When will this be updated for 40.12? Just wondering.

I second this since I can't play DF without it. (You guys rock, FYI.)

[Taragoth]

When will this be updated for 40.12? Just wondering.

I second this since I can't play DF without it. (You guys rock, FYI.)

Yes they do and it seems Toady is constanly updating DF atm .... allot of moders have to keep up... fun indeed!

PS Keep up the awesome work! x

[splinterz]

40.12 layouts for windows/linux are available here for manual updating

hopefully i'll get around to another full release this weekend sometime.

[PeridexisErrant]

40.12 layouts for windows/linux are available here for manual updating

hopefully i'll get around to another full release this weekend sometime.

And it's only been a few hours since I decided downloading by hand got so fiddly that I made updating not-manual.  Which is the opposite order to TwbT, so I'm happy.   

[fricy]

Ok, I'll go ahead and close the mantis bug. Thanks for letting me know.
Do you know of another way to check animal size values?
   Keith

Try the dfhack command "gui/unit-info-viewer"

[splinterz]

Ok, I'll go ahead and close the mantis bug. Thanks for letting me know.

Do you know of another way to check animal size values?

   Keith

no i don't know another way to check, i guess with a dfhack script or lua to read a unit's body.size_info? at any rate, i think i've got it resolved now, however there may actually be a df bug with young creatures. i noticed that if the baby age was 0 and the child age was 1, it seemed that it may be rounding up to an age of 1 and using that body size. something like, at > 5 months, it's considered 1 year old and updates the body size to that of a child, even though it's still a baby.

as another example, i had an alpaca that was 8 months old, so it's size should have been around ~7000 until 1 year old, where it's size is then ~35000. however at 8 months it was already ~28000.

this discrepancy was part of the DT issue, but the other part was that the body size code was incomplete. it had been simply taking the caste's default adult size, and dividing by 2 for children, and 4 for babies. using that base size, it was then applying the appearance modifiers to adjust the size accordingly. however, this doesn't seem to take into account fat layers? once i realized i could read the current body size directly (at least that's what i think unit.body.size_info.size_cur is, i couldn't get an answer from the dfhack guys) i switched to simply reading that instead of calculating it.

[splinterz]

Ok, I'll go ahead and close the mantis bug. Thanks for letting me know.
Do you know of another way to check animal size values?
   Keith

Try the dfhack command "gui/unit-info-viewer"

it appears that for the body size it's just reporting strength:agility?

[Dirst]

Ok, I'll go ahead and close the mantis bug. Thanks for letting me know.

Do you know of another way to check animal size values?

   Keith

no i don't know another way to check, i guess with a dfhack script or lua to read a unit's body.size_info? at any rate, i think i've got it resolved now, however there may actually be a df bug with young creatures. i noticed that if the baby age was 0 and the child age was 1, it seemed that it may be rounding up to an age of 1 and using that body size. something like, at > 5 months, it's considered 1 year old and updates the body size to that of a child, even though it's still a baby.

as another example, i had an alpaca that was 8 months old, so it's size should have been around ~7000 until 1 year old, where it's size is then ~35000. however at 8 months it was already ~28000.

this discrepancy was part of the DT issue, but the other part was that the body size code was incomplete. it had been simply taking the caste's default adult size, and dividing by 2 for children, and 4 for babies. using that base size, it was then applying the appearance modifiers to adjust the size accordingly. however, this doesn't seem to take into account fat layers? once i realized i could read the current body size directly (at least that's what i think unit.body.size_info.size_cur is, i couldn't get an answer from the dfhack guys) i switched to simply reading that instead of calculating it.

I haven't looked at DT's code, but from what I've seen in scripts most add-ons calculate age in whole years ignoring the time of year (basically, current year - birth year), which can give very misleading results as DF itself respects age at a resolution of ticks.  This would be more visible in the current version because new forts don't always start on the first of the year.  (I've seen contradictory statements of how creatures' sizes change with age, either linearly or quantum leaps.  Whatever it is, DF will return that when reporting a body size.)