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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 290340 times)

Dorsidwarf

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1291 on: October 19, 2015, 05:31:27 pm »

Doesnt nasa have a livestream from the ISS? You could say they release hundreds of thousands of space->earth images a day already
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1292 on: October 19, 2015, 05:35:52 pm »

Doesnt nasa have a livestream from the ISS? You could say they release hundreds of thousands of space->earth images a day already
It's going to be pictures from 1 million miles away, instead of 200 miles away.
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Graknorke

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1293 on: October 19, 2015, 05:40:26 pm »

They're all fake anyway, since we all know that the Earth is actually the inside of a hollow sphere.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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redwallzyl

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1294 on: October 19, 2015, 05:50:36 pm »

They're all fake anyway, since we all know that the Earth is actually the inside of a hollow sphere.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
what the hell is that crazy thing?
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1295 on: October 19, 2015, 05:53:57 pm »

They're all fake anyway, since we all know that the Earth is actually the inside of a hollow sphere.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
what the hell is that crazy thing?
..........................................
That.
What even.
Ugh.
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Sigtext

It has been determined that Trump is an average unladen swallow travelling northbound at his maximum sustainable speed of -3 Obama-cubits per second in the middle of a class 3 hurricane.

Graknorke

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1296 on: October 19, 2015, 05:54:01 pm »

they skate around on the glass ceiling, i think
anyway comets disprove "ball earth" theory, duh
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1297 on: October 19, 2015, 05:55:06 pm »

Why don't you google the guy's name. It leads to a crazy place.
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Culise

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1298 on: October 19, 2015, 06:01:19 pm »

they skate around on the glass ceiling, i think
anyway comets disprove "ball earth" theory, duh
* Culise reads that thread page


Here's my choice pick:
Quote
Einstein is not just a plagarist, he is an actor fronting Jew science fraud, designed to push us away from God, so that the legions of Satan can flourish. Listen up, what do you know about science? i am 100 per cent revisionist but I have a PhD in Chemistry, earned while my real interest was in recording and music production.
I mean...what.  Just...what.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1299 on: October 19, 2015, 06:13:57 pm »

Quote
I have a phd in Chemistry
'

Ah, there we go.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1300 on: October 19, 2015, 06:24:14 pm »

Fakeedit: 12 new replies?  I'll read them shortly.

(Also, emulating each neuron with an artificial neural network?  Yeah, I'm of the conclusion that the best emulator for a brain is a brain.  Any actual layer of abstraction is going to be significantly inefficient.)
Neural networks are usually just matrices of various sorts that get multiplied together with an input. They don't work on noncontinuous functions very well, and I'd imagine that the brain has a lot of nonlinear effects, so breaking down the brain into 10^12  neural networks makes sense to me.
I'm not sure I understand your methods, but while you can perhaps get 1x105 neurons per square millimetre (actually, it'll be in three dimensions, but for the sake of comparison I'm going with the planar footprint value I found for an unextraordinary neuron soma) and about 1x106 transistors for the same area (again, with the best planar footprint I found quoted, and, yes, you can use multiple layers here, as well), I'm not sure how close to emulating each neuron you could get with each provided a trainable 'network' of 10 transistors (including the background infrastructure required to configure, or freeze in the eventual 'working configuration', that network).

There's the need to keep cells alive with (at least the equivalent of) a blood supply with appropriately nutritious chemicals and ones that allow the ion-channels to work, but then there's also the need in the electronic version to feed power to the gates (whether to each and every one via appropriate high-rail and low-rail connections, or to enough of them for the rest to power passively from the differential of voltages across the infed logical connections providing inputs).  I think there's similar problems, except that a brain is already a tried-and-tested 'quite efficient, for what it does' system, whilst I'm sure it's still early days and future developments in design will perhaps provide something worthwhile, but... not yet.

Because without 'dumbing down' a brain (emulating broader structures, with some loss of 'resolution', and almost certainly losing some of the dynamic reconnectivity that a brain capable of continually adapting and re-adapting, rather than stagnating), I think it's going to be a poor copy, at best.

Which is not to say that it needs to be a mass-for-mass copy, but make it bigger (to give it the ability to be a more equal neuron-for-neuron copy, plus overheads required to allow the adaptability and resilience) and I'm not sure how we could compare the raw power consumption and maintenance for an electronic conglomerate theoretically of the exact same complexity of the human brain.  (And, perhaps, the same speed.  Not that speed matters if you're willing to "go slow" in your copy-brain's thinking processes, but it'd be nice to be roughly equivalent.)

The advantages might well exist between maintaining such a 'brain' and the brain and body of an original person's full body indefinitely, but the degree of transhumanism involved takes us into additional philosophical questions.

Perhaps the answer is instead of 'reading' a brain in order to try to imprint into an electronic analogue (albeit a digital one ;), do the same reading process but then just store that as plain data and then '3D print' the explorer's body from the ground up (a feedstock of the necessary base biogenic chemicals, that can be stored for the lifetime of the voyage), such that the brain-image is restored to the lifeless body-and-brain that you then resuscitate at the destination where the human explorer/ambassador can do his or her job.  (Not possible at the moment, but then neither full on brain-emulation nor 'read-to-copy' technology is, so maybe when we can reliably read from the original enough details to describe a 'mind' we'll have worked out how to create a one or other variety of vessel into which to write those details back again.)
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Graknorke

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1301 on: October 19, 2015, 06:31:57 pm »

they skate around on the glass ceiling, i think
anyway comets disprove "ball earth" theory, duh
* Culise reads that thread page

I just realised that it's a conspiracy forum. Oops.
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jaked122

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1302 on: October 19, 2015, 06:42:42 pm »

Leave the qualia to those involved. Why should one person's dissatisfaction at one method of storage and resurrection mean the difference between calling uploading "solved" or not?

In any case, genetic algorithms and neural networks can solve things in interesting ways. I'm not yet sure how much capacity a bare-bones simulation of a brain requires. I think that the estimates provided are grossly inflated by carbon-fascists who want biology to seem more impressive than man-made materials... I can't honestly say whether that was meant to be sarcastic...

In any case, the amount of processing done by the brain is much less than the figures reported as most of that is represented by fluid mechanics. Fluid mechanics are not a useful computation method for most problems. Then there's the duplicated sections firing exactly the same way, the parts that are nearly static due to their functions being so well determined, namely a lot of the homeostasis equipment.

Ultimately, what I'm getting at is that there's a lot of stuff going on in the brain because there's so much garbage processing going on(that isn't helpful or experienced in any way), then there's the bodily control mechanisms which make up a huge part of the rear-brain.  Those aren't helpful as a disembodied mind running a spaceship. But what do I know?

Evidently, not very much.


Also I know why we haven't tried making a chip with a functional volume the same as a brain, but I wonder how much capacity it would have?

Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1303 on: October 19, 2015, 09:25:34 pm »

In any case, genetic algorithms and neural networks can solve things in interesting ways.
Oh, I'm a great fan of genetic algorithms, etc1.  I just don't think the micro-electrical-chemical mechanisms in neurons, improved over many eons, can yet be operationally (i.e. properly) approximated to by brute-force base engineering of the kind we can apply to it, however it ends up then being moulded from a generic 'blank' setting to the intended purpose.

1 Did you ever see the Darwinian Poetry site?  Not my work, no, but on the associated forum (in-between the pharmaceutical spam, that kept on getting through the rather simple interface safeguards), you'd have seen a lot of my own suggestions as to how to add even more variations to the way the algorithm created 'child' poems from the suitably-successful parents.


Quote
Fluid mechanics are not a useful computation method for most problems.
The question is do(/does) fluid mechanics do something within the brain, processing-wise?  If it does, then it needs to somehow be part of the simulation.  Without it, the model is flawed.


Quote
Then there's the duplicated sections firing exactly the same way
...which probably serves a function (even if we're not quite sure what), so you need to maintain it.... etc, etc...


Quote
Ultimately, what I'm getting at is that there's a lot of stuff going on in the brain because there's so much garbage processing going on(that isn't helpful or experienced in any way)
Compare and contrast to so-called Junk DNA.  Useless?  Doubtful.  It (at the very least) soaks up free-radical damage, with some sacrificial base-sequences being very magnetic to such damage, sparing more 'active' regions.  But also there are possible autocatalystic functions, not yet properly identified.  And we haven't yet fully identified the actions of the proteome and other elements of the cytoplasm.  If we strip the human genome of everything we don't know the function of (or even just imagine, but are a bit unsure about the specifics), we'd certainly be throwing away something important.

I can't help feeling that under such a plan for the electronic mind, you'd also find said mind being virtually lobotomised.  Which might be acceptable, and maybe even end up, by sheer luck, being indistinguishable from human in a Turing Test.  But for every advantageously omitted emotion, desire or tendency to procrastinate with useless thoughts, you're as likely to lose a vital spark of inspiration, the possibility of intuition, empathy and/or compassion.  The result being little more than an advanced program with far more R&D and effort behind its creation than what would have been necessary for a non-faking program, genuinely an AI beyond any currently dreamt of, but without all that pretentiousness towards being a genuine person-now-writ-in-electronics.
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Nick K

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #1304 on: October 19, 2015, 11:14:01 pm »

I think there's some Russian billionaire funding research into mind-computer transfer, with the goal of living forever.
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