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[Criptfeind]

The card has never been used for anything other than one-turn kills, and they've already had to nerf it massively once.  In an interview Brode also said it limited what they could do with future cards (eg apparently Dreadsteed was originally intended to be a neutral card in Naxxramas).

Yeah, I know. And I totally agree with that reasoning. It really did have to go. But why bother replacing it with this card at all? It could have at least been a 3/3 or a 3/4 or something. This goes past nerffing a charge deck from ever being good to just putting yet another incredibly shitty (warrior common) card out.

[Orange Wizard]

It's a 2/3 for 3 with "your charge minions have +1 attack".

What no

Damn you Blizzard

I liked Warsong Commander

You've ruined my life

[IronyOwl]

The card has never been used for anything other than (eg apparently Dreadsteed was originally intended to be a neutral card in Naxxramas).

Aw man, that would have been hilarious.

[DemonOfWrath]

It's a change that needed to happen at some point, I just don't like how the developers are really bad and inconsistent when it comes to game balance (can they actually nerf a card now in a way that isn't a guillotine?) and their reasoning for nerfs and buffs.

"It limits design space". Yeah, sure. But what about BGH, piloted shredder, dr boom, mad scientist and emperor thaurissan? Those limit design space just as much or more than warsong commander did, when are they getting nerfed for consistency of that statement?

Warsong commander is almost objectively worse than raid leader (unplayable) and dire wolf alpha (used in zoo, and pretty good in arena) now. It's pretty sad.

[Leafsnail]

BGH is a tech card that helps guard against problems.  Piloted Shredder and Dr Boom are better than other things in their manaslot but nothing about them limits design space - they are ultimately fair cards that do not enable combos.  Thaurissan could cause problems but but it has a lot of fair uses and I think it's worth waiting to see if he's OK after the broken deck has been removed from the game.

War Song Commander as-was could make otherwise reasonable cards impossible to make due to combos it enabled.  For example, neutral Dreadsteed.

[DemonOfWrath]

BGH literally makes a 6 attack minion better than the same minion at 7 attack, it very much limits design space because everything with 7+ attack has to have a massive effect or be severely undercosted in order to be close to playable and BGH is a big factor in that. Sure, there's other hard removal but BGH is neutral and also an insane tempo swing, if you spend 7 mana on a big minion (let's say, Illidan, he's always a fun example, and I seriously tried to make him work for quite a while) and it gets hit by BGH before it can do anything you're so far behind because it not only got killed for 3 mana but they also get a 4/2 out of it as well.

Shredder and Boom I think limit design space simply by setting the benchmark for their mana costs far too high, as when considering a 4 or 7 drop the first thought is simply "Why don't I just play Shredder/Boom instead?". Maybe limiting design space is the wrong way to express it, but those cards crowd out far too many (existing or future) cards at their mana cost simply by existing.

I personally think Thaurissan is probably fine right now, but will inevitably create some other insane deck(s). He alters how future cards have to be designed because if a new card will cost X you can't just consider what (10-X) mana of cards can combo with it, but what combos are possible if it, and every other card, costs 1 less mana, because there's literally no way (Snipe+spell power doesn't count ) to stop his effect triggering at least once. He's going to enable some stupidly powerful deck again eventually (I think he was the big problem with patron actually, as he enabled all the insane 1-turn combos, without him the deck would need at least one turn of setup that could be played around). You'd need a design team that's way, way better than what the Blizzard guys have shown themselves to be so far in order to avoid that.

[Leafsnail]

Yes, the first three cards may prevent other cards from seeing competitive constructed play, but it doesn't limit the potential design space of cards that Blizzard can release.  I also think that BGH is completely necessary in a game where almost every class doesn't have access to good large removal spells, it prevents big guys from being excessively good.

Thaurissan is maybe a problem, but ultimately he's just one card so it's very hard to make a deck based around a combo that depends entirely on him.  Patron worked because it was a critical mass combo that just got stronger with Thaurissan.  He was important in some matchups but not all of them.

[Rex_Nex]

Anyone else kinda annoyed with this week's tavern brawl? It's literally 100% rng, even moreso than something like the portals tavern brawl was. "Here, let me just deal with your turn 1 double Varian with my leper gnomes!". Might as well just have us win or lose as soon as we hit the queue button.

[Wysthric]

Warsong is Class Specific, correct? They should have made it a 2/3 with it's effect for 2 mana. That way it's overtly better than, say, River Crokolisk.

I feel that Dreadsteed is thematically fitted to Warlock too well for it to be a neutral card.

I personally agree with the statements on Doctor Boom and Shredder - these cards are so good for the mana that there's very little reason to choose anything else over them. The fact that War Golem is in the game is a bit confusing, although I guess you can have two copies. What I don't understand is why Evil Heckler is literally a better version of Booty Bay Bodyguard. Why not just change BBB's cost? 

[frostshotgg]

Blizzard doesn't believe in utilizing the fact that hearthstone is entirely digital to their advantage. They've repeatedly taken the SC2 philosophy of "Let the players figure shit out" except when they've had to basically remove cards from the game. The only cards they've "balanced" that still see play are UTH and Sylvanas, off the top of my head. Plus I guess if you go way way back in beta, giants down from 10/10.

[DemonOfWrath]

Yes, the first three cards may prevent other cards from seeing competitive constructed play, but it doesn't limit the potential design space of cards that Blizzard can release.  I also think that BGH is completely necessary in a game where almost every class doesn't have access to good large removal spells, it prevents big guys from being excessively good.

Thaurissan is maybe a problem, but ultimately he's just one card so it's very hard to make a deck based around a combo that depends entirely on him.  Patron worked because it was a critical mass combo that just got stronger with Thaurissan.  He was important in some matchups but not all of them.

Sure, the first three don't actually limit what can be designed, but they do limit what they can design if they actually want the cards played (and I don't think they should be releasing deliberate crap). But I don't think they actually care about that, look at all the obvious junk in TGT, and new Warsong Commander.

Personally I don't think BGH is necessary, each class has decent ways of removal without it (I only got my first BGH 2 days ago, so I've had to deal without him forever) and big minions aren't all that powerful, they're already vulnerable enough that playing them is a huge risk (because again, BGH removes it for 3 mana and places a 4/2 down, it's such a big tempo swing that it can just immediately lose you the game). The only big minions that don't have a big battlecry/deathrattle that get played are Fel Reavers and giants, and I don't think an 8/8 needing to be ~5 mana to be playable is an indicator that big chunky minions are very strong in the game.

Sure patron worked without Thaurissan, but all the insane empty board 30/40/50+ damage combos (that was the problem with the deck, that it could do all of that in one turn with no setup) were purely reliant on him to drop costs on all the cards (remember, warsong+patron+frothing is 11 mana normally). He was the enabler for the really broken aspects of the deck (imo).

[frostshotgg]

BGH is basically the giant check. It keeps decks that do nothing but play fatass bodies like Handlock from being impossible for control decks to deal with. It serves a purpose, although it may be too good at it.

[DemonOfWrath]

Basically that. Handlock is about all I see BGH being necessary to keep in check. I just think at 3 mana the card is way way too good, as the body only trades 1 health for that effect.

[IronyOwl]

The fact that War Golem is in the game is a bit confusing, although I guess you can have two copies. What I don't understand is why Evil Heckler is literally a better version of Booty Bay Bodyguard. Why not just change BBB's cost? 

Or Ice Rager being Magma Rager with +1 Health, instead of just giving Magma Rager +1 Health. I can only assume they wanted an excuse to add more cards.

[Criptfeind]

I feel like ice rager is just actually just for trolling anyone who's asked for bad cards to be buffed. So I guess it sorta works well for it's purpose...