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[Strongpoint]

Not exactly. Exodia is good against decks that are not aggro or combo. Jade druids just lump big creatures on the table and in that regards are no different from big druids. You stall and draw, then they die.

Jade druid is an OK (50\50) match up for exodia.
They still put big stuff on the board and have at least 18 damage reach (2xswipe+2xUI) + 1 per turn from heropower or +3 per turn from buffed heropower.

If your opponent is bad and does stuff like shuffling his second idol  and doesn't go face at every opportunity then yes, exodia works nicely. Else it is an even match not a counter.

Aggro works, but murlocs are not even the best aggro deck right now. I still don't get what's so special about them. Pirate warrior or aggro druid are much scarier.

Murlocs are not the best aggro deck because once you your opponent removes your first wave of murlocs > you are in a bad shape. This especially true against pirate warrior who use weapons to kill all murlocs

But jade druid have serious problems removing waves. Spreading plague is the only hope but even it doesn't delay wave of murloc + megasaur or warleader for a long time like it does with aggro druid waves.

[Arx]

What makes me think that murloc paladin is the best way to kill jade druid? Understanding that jade druid has hard time deal with a board full of murlocs, personal experience, watching tournaments and good old metastats.net.

Aggro works, but murlocs are not even the best aggro deck right now. I still don't get what's so special about them. Pirate warrior or aggro druid are much scarier for jades.

According to TempoStorm, which may or may not be accurate, Pirate Warrior has something like a 13% lower winrate against Jade than Murloc Paladin. Murloc Paladin is also more more threatening to Jade than Aggro Druid is. As a matter of fact, TempoStorm's numbers mark Murloc and aggro Druid as the only popular decks that consistently beat Jade.

Murloc Paladin is actually midrange as much as aggro, so it's a lot more able to control shenanigans like, specifically, Spreading Plague, since Murlocs reward going wide just as much as Plague punishes it. BoK and Spikeridged both also enable clean trade-ups into Plague, Jade Behemoth, and Jades in general. Without the weapon focus of Pirates, Ooze is less of a slap in the face.

Just about everything in Murloc Paladin equips it to deal with Jade better than any other deck.

In practice, aggro Druid is easily the best aggro deck in the game right now, because lul Druidstone. But, you know, it's nice to be able to play decks that aren't S-tier and win occasionally.

[Strongpoint]

Murloc Paladin is actually midrange as much as aggro

Murloc paladin is a very vague definition. There are slower midrange versions with Stonehill defenders, Lich king and Tirion, there are fast versions with eight one drops and divine favor. When I say murloc paladin I usually mean something close to the later.

[wereboar]

But jade druid have serious problems removing waves. Spreading plague is the only hope but even it doesn't delay wave of murloc + megasaur or warleader for a long time like it does with aggro druid waves.

Right. But isn't aggro druid stronger for the same reason? He has a very tough board and fares against other decks better.
Just checked the metastats and here's what they say concerning most successful deck archetypes:
1 Jade Druid
2 Pirate Warrior
3 Aggro Token Druid
4 Midrange Paladin
5 Control Priest
6 Evolve Shaman
7 Midrange Hunter
8 Secret Mage
9 Highlander Priest
10 Exodia Mage

Obviously, right next to jade druids are decks specifically meant to counter them. Pirate warrior, aggro druid. Just as I've suggested. Midrange/murloc comes fourth. Decklist is a bit different from what I expected, not really aggro but very solid midrange. I might actually try this archetype, it does look decent.

[Strongpoint]

Well, you jump to conclusions there. First of all midrange paladin is not the same as murloc paladin under metastats (and my) definition. If you look further bellow, murloc paladin is listed as #15 archetype. Yet it doesn't stop it from being a good counter* to jade druid. Main problem is that murloc paladin is awful against #2 of the list.

[Criptfeind]

According to TempoStorm, which may or may not be accurate, Pirate Warrior has something like a 13% lower winrate against Jade than Murloc Paladin.

I think you're reading the tables wrong, it says that pirate warrior is much better against jade, and murlock paladin is an almost even match up. The deck each square is talking about is the one to the left.

Anyway, Exodia needs to draw though their whole deck to win, jade can draw though faster and play jades faster until they run out of removal. If Exodia gets lucky, it draws it's combo fast enough and wins, if not, jade overruns and wins. Pretty even match up. Aggro paladin murlock is okay against jade, but not as quick and thus not as good at burning them down as compared to pirate warrior and aggro druid. At least, in my opinion. Yeah, you win if you get the right draws to get a big buff board, but I personally find that a little bit harder to do then with aggro druid, or then just beating them down with pirate warrior.

I have to disagree. Innervate is a card that is a long standing problem in wild. With innervate merely moved there, any new 3\4\5 mana card may break wild. I understand that wild isn't intended to be properly balanced but wild need help to deal with such nonsense. For example FWA nerf is good for wild because pirate warrior is very deadly there and it will become better with new weapons printed. (For standard it is awful. I think control warrior is not a deck anymore)

This is literally why wild exists though. Because eventually piling up old cards on top of each other causes such issues and produces broken combos. I think it's perfectly fine for such conflicts (like fledgling and innervate) to exist together in wild, that's sorta the point, yeah?

[wereboar]

Well, you jump to conclusions there. First of all midrange paladin is not the same as murloc paladin under metastats (and my) definition.

Well, I actually checked what they call "midrange paladin" in current meta and it looks like mostly midrange murloc decks.

This is literally why wild exists though. Because eventually piling up old cards on top of each other causes such issues and produces broken combos. I think it's perfectly fine for such conflicts (like fledgling and innervate) to exist together in wild, that's sorta the point, yeah?

Fair point.

[Strongpoint]

I think you're reading the tables wrong, it says that pirate warrior is much better against jade, and murlock paladin is an almost even match up. The deck each square is talking about is the one to the left.

What tables at tempostorm? Here is their jade druid page and you can see that tempostorm consides midrange murloc paladin the best high tier deck to counter druid.

This is literally why wild exists though.

I disagree. Wild exist to a) prevent staleness of the standard meta. b) Make game more accessible for new players. It is not c)Place with no balance at all meant to be a graveyard for the decks of the past.

Well, I actually checked what they call "midrange paladin" in current meta and it looks like mostly midrange murloc decks.

OK. Lets call it a midrange version of a murloc deck. It will be a more accurate name. I think the faster paladin deck is the higher chance to win it has. Something like this is one of my choices to go for jade druid hunting but with warleader nerf this kind of deck will lose a huge chunk of snowballing potential.

Edit: ooops. Links fixed

[Criptfeind]

Oh, lol whoops. Sorry, for some reason I read tempostorm as vicioussyndicate. So many different metatracking sites. VS considers the midrange paladin match up against jade druid almost even. Which is about right in my experience.

Yes, wild exists to prevent staleness of the standard meta by being the graveyard for the decks of the past. I'm not sure where you get making the game more accessible for new players. You need cards from packs you can't even  buy in game to play in wild. It's not a new player zone.

[Arx]

I disagree. Wild exist to a) prevent staleness of the standard meta.

Fair.

b) Make game more accessible for new players.

That's the opposite of it's purpose. If you look at MtG's Modern format, it's almost identical to Wild - notably, both of them are there so that players can still use their older cards without new players having to spend thousands on packs. For instance, Reno Priest is pretty high tier in Wild right now and to play it you need League and Naxx, plus cards from basically every set. And that's just one deck.

To play a high-tier standard deck, there are a lot fewer constraints.

It is not c)Place with no balance at all meant to be a graveyard for the decks of the past.

I don't think it should be, but everything starting from the way it's called "Wild, because it's just that" to retiring Classic cards to Wild rather than (temporarily?) removing them suggests that Blizzard disagrees with you (and me).

Oh, lol whoops. Sorry, for some reason I read tempostorm as vicioussyndicate. So many different metatracking sites.

Yeah, it's why I prefaced my post with not being sure if TS's numbers are right. I really have no clue, but it's better than flailing in the dark.

[Strongpoint]

Yes, wild exists to prevent staleness of the standard meta by being the graveyard for the decks of the past. I'm not sure where you get making the game more accessible for new players. You need cards from packs you can't even  buy in game to play in wild. It's not a new player zone.

I mean that wild makes it easier to have standard decks. Official blizzard's idea that brand new player won't have to buy shitload of packs from the old expansion and can focus their attention on the most recent(5 to ones.

Funny enough if your goal is to have few competitive decks, maintaining wild decks is far cheaper than constantly crafting new decks for standard. Once you craft... lets say renolock, all you need to do is getting the cards that can improve it and it is few of those each expansion.

[Leafsnail]

This is what I expect. They thumped druid on the nose and kicked their main rivals in the junk. It seems like the net result is a buff for druid. The problem was there wasn't really a downside for going all ramp cards, UI just refilled your hand and you went on playing at a 4-mana advantage. Now you just have to suffer playing with a 3-mana advantage instead.

It's been compared to karazhan nerfs where they nerfed shaman's competitors more than they nerfed shaman... which ended up just buffing shaman.

I could be wrong, it may slow druids up just enough that highroll priests can move in, and instead of man -> bigger man -> even bigger man every game is a diceroll where the bad outcome for you is facing endless 4/8's that autokill your board.

I've seen people trying to make this comparison but it seems very wrong to me. With the Shaman nerfs the best Shaman deck received no meaningful nerfs at all (Midrange never played Rockbiter Weapon and a lot of builds cut Tuskarr Totemic anyway) while all its competitors took crippling nerfs to their best cards. In this case the Innervate nerf is very meaningful as it's the best card in Druid and indeed the game. And Spreading Plague was a key way to shore up Jade Druid's glaring weakness to board flood strategies.

The Hex nerf is basically irrelevant as a) the card is still fine and b) the best Shaman deck doesn't even use it. The Warleader nerf is something but I don't think it's that big of a deal, Murloc Paladin still has possibly the strongest early plays in the game and pushes a lot of damage with both Warleader and Megasaur. The Fiery War Axe nerf is the only one that's anywhere close to as impactful as the Druid one.

[Criptfeind]

I'm not sure I'd call innervate the strongest card in the game. It's good but I don't think it's quite as good as firey waraxe. 2 mana is a lot but the card cost is pretty real.

Edit: Also the warleader nerf is a pretty big deal, but not against druid as much, probably. Warleaders were really good at boosting out of mage and priest aoe range, as well as protecting against paladin board clear. It'll really hurt those match ups for the decks that use it, but probably not be that bad against druid.

[Darkmere]

Well. I just faced a control paladin in wild casual, twice. I was playing Dudes.

The guy got so pissed off he roped me every single turn for both games. Literally just finished a 45 minute game where he was so mad at a children's card game he just stewed in rage for most of an hour.

I think this is the highlight of my week. Seriously.

[Cthulufaic]

Well. I just faced a control paladin in wild casual, twice. I was playing Dudes.

The guy got so pissed off he roped me every single turn for both games. Literally just finished a 45 minute game where he was so mad at a children's card game he just stewed in rage for most of an hour.

I think this is the highlight of my week. Seriously.

Did you summon an even larger man?