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[esran]

So I've been playing a halfling bard and bards are actually really awesome. I can quell anything quellable, and then recruit anything sentient. I do have a problem though.
I got to the temple and I want to essiah or hessani or both since both tolerate eachother. However, for some reason when I try to convert, or even just make sacrifices, I get "thou art not worthy of my gifts". Anyone know why this is happening?
My characters desired alignment is lawful good, and he has strong good tendencies, and very strong lawful tendencies. He's never served nor sacrificed to any gods before. When fighting he always quells and enlists if possible, and failing that uses sneak attacks and his +5 shocking elven longsword of fey trapping. For particular difficult encounters he uses call companions to summon a wrecking ball of carnage that destroys all in its path. I disabled complicity transgressions because my allies won't stop attacking neutrals, and, every so often, eachother (although high bluff usually handles that). I am allied with both evil and good allies, which I am worried might be why the gods won't accept me.
Does anyone know why this is happening, and if it is caused by evil party members? If I have to arrange for my evil party members to die I can, but I would prefer to avoid such drastic measures.

[Frumple]

M'actually not sure what could be causing it, heh. It could be the evil allies, but I'm not sure about that. Best suggestion I've got would be to make a copy of the save file and kick it into wizard mode, which should might give you more information as to what exactly is going on.

Gods in inc are... probably the most fiddly and obfuscated mechanic in the game, as well as somewhat buggy in ways I only vaguely remember. Going full spoiler in game is probably your best bet for figuring out exactly what's happening.

That said, with hessani* specifically you've probably pissed him off enough he won't have you. That you've been regularly using call companions is quite possibly enough to do that by itself. From what I recall (note: I can definitely be failing a memory check, here), gods do actually track anger and whatnot when you're not worshiping or aligned with them, they just don't smite the buggery out of you for doing stuff that irritates them. So you can likely build up enough dislike to block any relationship whatsoever, even without being nominally or fully aligned with them.

*It's worth noting that hessani is an absolute nightmare to worship. There is lit. no other god in the game as hard to please -- not even Maeve, and Maeve will basically kill you on a whim.

[Kagus]

Well, see, that's just it...  Hesani won't nuke you on a whim or summon a bunch of dire panthers on top of your head.  Also, Hesani is a cinch to please if you have companions and disabled transgressions...  You can get your followers to absolutely slaughter everything and he won't give a damn.  Also, Hesani at least doesn't give two puffs if you have evil critters with you, s'long as you're not fighting them he's good with it (so far as I can recall, at least).


Just make a couple appropriate sacrifices on each of their altars.  The way gods are viewed in Incursion is basically that they have no influence outside of their "scope", and their "scope" is those individuals and places that have interacted with them in some way.  So all the nice quelling and allying you've been doing hasn't been seen.  All they see is some stranger walking in asking for divine attentions.

Sacrifice some lovely gold coins to Hesani, and some evil creatures to Essiah (NOTE: Stuff like goblins, orcs and the like?  Not inherently evil.  There are neutral and even good-aligned goblinoids that get spawned, and Essiah is NOT happy about you attempting to sacrifice them), then try converting again.

[esran]

Well, see, that's just it...  Hesani won't nuke you on a whim or summon a bunch of dire panthers on top of your head.  Also, Hesani is a cinch to please if you have companions and disabled transgressions...  You can get your followers to absolutely slaughter everything and he won't give a damn.  Also, Hesani at least doesn't give two puffs if you have evil critters with you, s'long as you're not fighting them he's good with it (so far as I can recall, at least).


Just make a couple appropriate sacrifices on each of their altars.  The way gods are viewed in Incursion is basically that they have no influence outside of their "scope", and their "scope" is those individuals and places that have interacted with them in some way.  So all the nice quelling and allying you've been doing hasn't been seen.  All they see is some stranger walking in asking for divine attentions.

Sacrifice some lovely gold coins to Hesani, and some evil creatures to Essiah (NOTE: Stuff like goblins, orcs and the like?  Not inherently evil.  There are neutral and even good-aligned goblinoids that get spawned, and Essiah is NOT happy about you attempting to sacrifice them), then try converting again.

They won't let me sacrifice to them. When I try to sacrifice gold, by praying on their altar and hitting 's', that's when I'm told I'm not worthy.
edit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/luiouptlcsfyei2/Brandy.sav?dl=0     That's the link to my save I think. If its not level 4 bard in the alter room I linked the wrong thing. So, any reason why gods woldn't let a character sacrifice?

[Kagus]

Is that build Y12?  I'm running Y11 and the savegame isn't showing up for me.

[esran]

Is that build Y12?  I'm running Y11 and the savegame isn't showing up for me.

Yeah, its Y12. I thought that was the most recent build?

[Kagus]

Ehh, I kinda feel that Incursion is unstable enough as it is, having a prototype build that specifically says "UNSTABLE" seems like overkill to me.

[chooseusername]

The open source release has primarily been bug fixes so far, which means that stability has been better with each release.  The unstable release required low level changes across the code base, and was not guaranteed to be better than the worst non-open source release.

[kuniqs]

I wonder if Mensch will write the story & flavor text for 'finished' Incursion. The Gods'n races descriptions are wonderfull.

[Hamel]

I don't understand how people have won this game. I can never seem to get to the end without running into some kind of game-breaking bug first.

My latest attempt was cut short by the Infinite Counter-spelling Loop of Death. Which sadly still appears to be running amok. I guess Spellcraft is still a skill people should avoid training at all costs.

I've also learned that it can be very frustrating trying to dispel a Greater Dimensional Anchor effect when you're playing a Drow. The GDA trap in general is pretty aggravating, but failing the spell penetration check with all the scrolls of Dispel Magic you made that day is... bad. Oh, and apparently Dispel Magic ruins your magic items? Something to keep in mind I guess, though it seems like a tremendous "screw you" from the game waiting to happen.

Magic Resistance almost seems like more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Starting out as a Drow mage and having Phase Door miss half the time is pretty terrible. In DnD you automatically penetrate your own spell resistance and can even lower it at will. Sadly neither of these things seem to be present in Incursion?

Oh, and a bit of advice for any aspiring mages: Never have Fireball on a number hotkey. It's pretty easy to blow yourself to smithereens by accident.

[Frumple]

Yeah, the counterspell thing probably needs a ticket on choose's tracker thing if it isn't already there. I just turn counterspelling off in the options, personally. Usually not worth wasting the mana on, anyway. Just blow them up. Which yeah, when it comes to the bugs, that's how folks have won -- by avoiding them

Dispelled items come back after a while. Or should, anyway. Usually can just search a few times, or go take a nap. Greater dimensional anchor is something it's usually best to just sleep off, from what I've seen. Dispelling yourself is generally more trouble than it's worth, yeah. Has roughly the same effect as resting, except you still have a chunk of held mana just kind of being there.

You shouldn't be having to pass magic res checks when you're PDing yourself, though. I don't remember my drow having that problem. Actually, I just bounced a level one one around in version Y11 with no problem. Let me try with a weavecrafter real quick... nah, weavecrafters don't have that problem, either. Not sure what problem you're having, but I don't think it's magic resistance.

[Hamel]

I forgot you could turn off counterspelling. Definitely going to do that. Though, most of the game-ending bugs I've ran into have been the sudden-crash-repeatedly-after-loading-for-unknown-reasons kind of bugs.

Good to know that dispelled magic items go back to normal after a while. But, are you sure Greater Dimensional Anchor wears off after resting? It didn't go away after I rested once, and it said it was permanent (not persistent) until dispelled, in the conditions list. I've been hit by standard dimensional anchor traps before, and those always wore off after resting once.

It's strange. I've regularly got the message "You are unaffected" when casting Phase Door (followed by it not working) during normal play. But, when I started up a new mage just now and Phase Door'd around the starting room it didn't happen once. Meh, oh well.

[Frumple]

Coulda' sworn GDA does, but yeah, maybe not. Dispelling wand's probably the way to go to get rid of it, then. Scroll dispel is kinda' janky and personal dispel... also kinda' janky. Forget what the exact issue with it was (and it may have been fixed, I'unno). Use-magic boosted dispel wand strips pretty much anything, though. Might take a couple tries, but it'll get it.

As for that "you are unaffected" I'm fairly sure that's from the spell trying to put you somewhere it kinda' can't. Not a magic resistance thing. It's the same mechanic that makes (made?) teleport completely useless. Iirc, unless Choose has changed the behavior, a teleportation effect that's not uncontrolled (like, say, if you're a weavecrafter trying to cast PD) cannot put you anywhere except in line of sight. And by that, I mean places that you can actually see -- a weavecrafter in a cloud cannot (/could not -- again, choose may have changed the behavior) phase at all. PD on a non-weavecrafter shouldn't be running into that message, but a weavecrafter would be struggling with it all game if they didn't realize what was causing it.

[Hamel]

Interesting. I don't remember ever playing a weavecrafter, so it looks like something strange is going on there.

[Kagus]

Hehe, yup...  Weavecrafters need to rely on other means of avoiding trouble, as escape-teleportation is barely an option, unless you have a specific destination in view.  Always keep a buffer zone of minions around you, seeing as how they're dirt cheap if you're a Weaver.


Has the alienist spell list bug been fixed?  I haven't checked recently, but I remember being really sad when whichever version it was came around and made it so that if you became an alienist you were error-blocked from ever learning a new spell on the character menu.  Which, y'know, for a caster, is kinda bad...


I still need to do that "all-access diplomat" character idea I had a while back...  Diplomacy-oriented druid of Mara.  Animal empathy for beasts, diplomacy for living creatures and Mara worship for being able to quell/talk to the dead.  Plus you get the permasummons from both Druid class and Mara abilities to help bolster your forces.  I've also wanted to do an Orc Jesus character a la Crawl, but Khasrach can be...  Uh, well, a bitch.