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Author Topic: Starbound - Caveat emptor  (Read 440995 times)

Sappho

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2015, 03:00:59 am »

Well apparently you can't repair picks anymore. Unless there's a way to do it I couldn't figure out. Damn thing disappeared after a few minutes. Wish I'd realized that before I wasted all that copper on it. Anyway, I've upgraded the matter manipulator now, and it's a bit faster, but still slower than is fun. I'm exploring a new planet now... Here's hoping I'll find something interesting.

I'm not terribly pleased with how they're making the game more linear, though. My favorite part is basically exploration, and now I have to do a lot more work before I can go exploring.
You use ore, not ingots.

Or it got removed. I haven't played the experimental.
It got removed.  Pickaxes are now VERY fast, but very low durability and cannot be repaired.  They're a luxury item.  People kept complaining "why is my stone pickaxe better than my super space-age matter manipulator?" and now they're complaining that the space tech is better.  These people...

Just for the record, I'm not complaining that the matter manipulator is now better than pickaxes. I'm glad they made that change. The thing I'm unhappy about is the balance. Previously, after putting in X time/effort in the game, I was able to mine at a particular speed. Now, after putting in X time/effort, I'm only able to mine maybe half that speed. And since you need to do a huge amount of mining to upgrade your mining tool (copper being pretty rare for some reason), it takes even longer, and is even more annoying. I'd be happy if they increased the starting mining speed of the matter manipulator to the upgraded speed, and increased the upgraded speed as well. I get that the tool becomes really powerful *eventually*, but if it takes me several grindy hours to find enough metal to upgrade it, I'm not enjoying those hours. There are a lot of cool things I want to do, and it's frustrating to have to spend so much time sloooowwwwwly mining through the dirt, bit by bit, desperately searching for copper.

If they either make the matter manipulator faster or increase the frequency of ore, I think I'll be satisfied with the mining situation.

I'm also a little disappointed with the food/farming situation. They've basically removed the survival aspect of the game now that we don't have hunger. On the other hand, food is now everywhere, apparently. Every planet is absolutely covered with wheat, potatoes, corn, rice, and berries. I planted a wheat seed, and the plant grew in less than a minute. I think I'm even more disappointed with this than with the mining thing. At least I can upgrade my mining tool eventually, but I can never put the survival aspect back in the game. I hope modders will be able to do something about that in the future.

By the way, I've only been to a few planets, but so far all of them have been identical. Same ground, trees, colors, weather, even very similar animals. What's the deal with that? Are they trying to imply that every planet in this whole system was once a part of one giant planet, which later broke into smaller ones, so the life forms evolved slightly and just carried on? And that somehow, all of these life forms are able to survive and thrive regardless of their distance from the sun? How are the planets at the outer edges keeping so warm? Why aren't the ones in the middle boiling hot? I didn't mind so much when every planet was totally random, but now it just feels silly. It's harder to ignore the ridiculousness of it.

There are things I do like, as well, though. The outpost is a great addition. (Surely it will be possible to mod in a recipe to make the coffee maker?) The text is pretty funny, and I got a chuckle when I looked in the trash in the bathroom upstairs. I even got a winning ticket from the arcade game, though I don't know if it will ever be used for anything. Combat is definitely better now, though I'm finding it more difficult in many cases. It's more about timing and strategy now, which I approve of. And obviously it helps to be able to attack in any direction, though they really need to work on some of those animations. So far, the technology progression seems to make more sense than it did before, too. I don't need to build the low-level version of something then upgrade it to the higher-level version.

They do seem to be missing an iron pick, though. I mean, it does make sense that a pickaxe will mine faster than a space gun. With all the technology we have on earth today, we still use a shovel to dig a hole. It's just the best tool for the job. But iron is a much harder metal than copper, and makes more sense as a material to make a mining tool. You'd only use copper if it were somehow more abundant or easier to obtain, which it isn't, in the game. Iron is all over the place. So why is there no recipe for an iron pick? Or is there one and I'm just totally blind? Because I searched the list a few times, certain I must be missing it, and couldn't find it. Then there's the silver pick... Silver is really quite soft. No one would ever use it for mining. Since picks wear out so quickly anyway, I don't see the point in making "this metal is rare" equal "this metal is strong." I'd vote for just making an iron one, getting rid of the others, having it wear out quickly, and then making the matter manipulator a bit faster at the start to eliminate frustrating grind.

WillowLuman

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #136 on: January 02, 2015, 03:19:40 am »

The first planet seems always to have the same biome and trees now, though the nearby planets can be different.
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Sappho

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #137 on: January 02, 2015, 03:55:59 am »

I've been to four planets so far, in different parts of the system, and all have been identical, with the creatures being *almost* identical. (Their attack patterns and basic shapes were identical, only slight differences in appearance, as you would find with animals which had evolved from a common ancestor in different places, but only for maybe a hundred years or so.) I'll keep exploring later today when I have some time, but that can't be accidental.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #138 on: January 02, 2015, 03:57:51 am »

One of your problems may be the fact that now planet types are restricted to the different types of stars now.
It's pretty stupid and ruins a lot of exploration value.
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Sappho

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #139 on: January 02, 2015, 05:31:40 am »

I see. Yeah, that's really dumb. Exploration was always the best part of this game for me, and now it seems they've tried to nuke that in every way possible. What kind of game are they actually trying to make here? Maybe I should switch back to stable and turn off updates, and just mod the hell out of it to add better stuff.

Arbinire

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #140 on: January 02, 2015, 08:20:41 am »

Well apparently you can't repair picks anymore. Unless there's a way to do it I couldn't figure out. Damn thing disappeared after a few minutes. Wish I'd realized that before I wasted all that copper on it. Anyway, I've upgraded the matter manipulator now, and it's a bit faster, but still slower than is fun. I'm exploring a new planet now... Here's hoping I'll find something interesting.

I'm not terribly pleased with how they're making the game more linear, though. My favorite part is basically exploration, and now I have to do a lot more work before I can go exploring.
You use ore, not ingots.

Or it got removed. I haven't played the experimental.
It got removed.  Pickaxes are now VERY fast, but very low durability and cannot be repaired.  They're a luxury item.  People kept complaining "why is my stone pickaxe better than my super space-age matter manipulator?" and now they're complaining that the space tech is better.  These people...

Just for the record, I'm not complaining that the matter manipulator is now better than pickaxes. I'm glad they made that change. The thing I'm unhappy about is the balance. Previously, after putting in X time/effort in the game, I was able to mine at a particular speed. Now, after putting in X time/effort, I'm only able to mine maybe half that speed. And since you need to do a huge amount of mining to upgrade your mining tool (copper being pretty rare for some reason), it takes even longer, and is even more annoying. I'd be happy if they increased the starting mining speed of the matter manipulator to the upgraded speed, and increased the upgraded speed as well. I get that the tool becomes really powerful *eventually*, but if it takes me several grindy hours to find enough metal to upgrade it, I'm not enjoying those hours. There are a lot of cool things I want to do, and it's frustrating to have to spend so much time sloooowwwwwly mining through the dirt, bit by bit, desperately searching for copper.

If they either make the matter manipulator faster or increase the frequency of ore, I think I'll be satisfied with the mining situation.

I'm also a little disappointed with the food/farming situation. They've basically removed the survival aspect of the game now that we don't have hunger. On the other hand, food is now everywhere, apparently. Every planet is absolutely covered with wheat, potatoes, corn, rice, and berries. I planted a wheat seed, and the plant grew in less than a minute. I think I'm even more disappointed with this than with the mining thing. At least I can upgrade my mining tool eventually, but I can never put the survival aspect back in the game. I hope modders will be able to do something about that in the future.

By the way, I've only been to a few planets, but so far all of them have been identical. Same ground, trees, colors, weather, even very similar animals. What's the deal with that? Are they trying to imply that every planet in this whole system was once a part of one giant planet, which later broke into smaller ones, so the life forms evolved slightly and just carried on? And that somehow, all of these life forms are able to survive and thrive regardless of their distance from the sun? How are the planets at the outer edges keeping so warm? Why aren't the ones in the middle boiling hot? I didn't mind so much when every planet was totally random, but now it just feels silly. It's harder to ignore the ridiculousness of it.

There are things I do like, as well, though. The outpost is a great addition. (Surely it will be possible to mod in a recipe to make the coffee maker?) The text is pretty funny, and I got a chuckle when I looked in the trash in the bathroom upstairs. I even got a winning ticket from the arcade game, though I don't know if it will ever be used for anything. Combat is definitely better now, though I'm finding it more difficult in many cases. It's more about timing and strategy now, which I approve of. And obviously it helps to be able to attack in any direction, though they really need to work on some of those animations. So far, the technology progression seems to make more sense than it did before, too. I don't need to build the low-level version of something then upgrade it to the higher-level version.

They do seem to be missing an iron pick, though. I mean, it does make sense that a pickaxe will mine faster than a space gun. With all the technology we have on earth today, we still use a shovel to dig a hole. It's just the best tool for the job. But iron is a much harder metal than copper, and makes more sense as a material to make a mining tool. You'd only use copper if it were somehow more abundant or easier to obtain, which it isn't, in the game. Iron is all over the place. So why is there no recipe for an iron pick? Or is there one and I'm just totally blind? Because I searched the list a few times, certain I must be missing it, and couldn't find it. Then there's the silver pick... Silver is really quite soft. No one would ever use it for mining. Since picks wear out so quickly anyway, I don't see the point in making "this metal is rare" equal "this metal is strong." I'd vote for just making an iron one, getting rid of the others, having it wear out quickly, and then making the matter manipulator a bit faster at the start to eliminate frustrating grind.

I would say the best place to voice these are over on their official forums or the Steam forums, because these are legitimate issues and should be the exact kind of feedback any developer in a "beta" test would like to hear...but you'd just get driven off because they don't like that kinda stuff over at CF. 
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Sappho

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #141 on: January 02, 2015, 09:01:26 am »

Yeah, I'd be happy to go give them my feedback, but I know they'd just ban me for being negative or questioning the devs or whatever it is they call it these days. It's such a shame they aren't more open to genuine feedback. The game could be much better.

Tiruin

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #142 on: January 02, 2015, 09:48:39 am »

Yeah, I'd be happy to go give them my feedback, but I know they'd just ban me for being negative or questioning the devs or whatever it is they call it these days. It's such a shame they aren't more open to genuine feedback. The game could be much better.
Perhaps they lack basic social etiquette?
As in, knowing the difference between criticism, bad/destructive criticism and good/constructive criticism. :-\
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jhxmt

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #143 on: January 02, 2015, 12:00:24 pm »

-Stuck on the mining base mission? Run past everything. It's much easier than the back-and-forth healing and hurting a straight sweep will take, but you miss out on pixels. I didn't have to kill one monster to get to the end once I figured out which way I was headed. Bring tarballs, maybe, if things get hairy.

Whoa, wait, you can just run all the way past those monster dudes?  Even the final ones?  THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #144 on: January 02, 2015, 12:17:56 pm »

Yeah, I miss abundant ore. I don't think hellevator should be a requirement to get off the first planet, either. Are asteroid fields still a thing?
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BigD145

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #145 on: January 02, 2015, 01:02:30 pm »

Yeah, I'd be happy to go give them my feedback, but I know they'd just ban me for being negative or questioning the devs or whatever it is they call it these days. It's such a shame they aren't more open to genuine feedback. The game could be much better.
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Sergius

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #146 on: January 02, 2015, 01:29:11 pm »

I like where the changes are going, the missions, the newer boss fights (still need a lot of balance, only way I found to kill the UFO penguin was to shoot him on the edge of the screen without him noticing me).

I still think this game would be 100x better if they just moved away from "digging metric assloads of dirt". Starbound shouldn't focus too much on mining, I know it's some sort of "spiritual successor" to Terraria but the whole sci-fi vibe and low-tech ore finding by hand don't mesh too well.

"Making awesome bases" should be the focus. Make it easier to get materials, or something. Add sieges like Terraria.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #147 on: January 02, 2015, 01:52:43 pm »

Not to worry, mods will once again save a game from mediocrity I'm sure.
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Scripten

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #148 on: January 02, 2015, 01:59:51 pm »

I still think this game would be 100x better if they just moved away from "digging metric assloads of dirt". Starbound shouldn't focus too much on mining, I know it's some sort of "spiritual successor" to Terraria but the whole sci-fi vibe and low-tech ore finding by hand don't mesh too well.

"Making awesome bases" should be the focus. Make it easier to get materials, or something. Add sieges like Terraria.

You know, I didn't realize that this is what I've been thinking the entire time until you said that. I love Starbound. I love the art style, the music, the (revised) combat, and the worlds, both the lore and the procedural generation.

But spending so much time underground means you miss out on the parts of the game that are really interesting. Unlike in Minecraft and Terraria, it's not very easy to just go spelunking for minerals. You often have to dig out a ton of blocks before you find much and the higher tier metals are just hidden behind slower-digging dirt/stone instead of in challenging places to be. Honestly, I'd love to see Chucklefish make mining an optional path to follow rather than a gate to better gear/missions. Maybe they could replace pickaxes with mining rigs/vehicles that requires occasional maintenance so they can scrap the idea of pickaxes altogether.
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BigD145

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Re: Starbound - Upbeat Giraffe/Rampaging Koala
« Reply #149 on: January 02, 2015, 02:07:10 pm »

Not to worry, mods will once again save a game from mediocrity I'm sure.

Like the various mining shaft mods, which may or may not be abandoned/updated.
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