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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Angle]

Why don't bees go to heaven - by Ron Williams

[TD1]

Why don't bees go to heaven - by Ron Williams

Yes. That will do nicely to explain it without me posting something lengthy

[Angle]

Also - thank you for reminding me about that video. There's so much gold on youtube I haven't watched in years. Like this.

[TD1]

Nice.

Two new bookmarks made.

[origamiscienceguy]

The definition of heaven is the presence of god (while hell is the lack of it). So you won't need to wait in line to see him. He is everywhere.

[Teneb]

The definition of heaven is the presence of god (while hell is the lack of it). So you won't need to wait in line to see him. He is everywhere.

That raises a question: is he present in our world or not? Because that would mean this is either heaven or hell.

[TD1]

Alright. Not God (though even if there were a God I would definitely say Jesus isn't some sort of bud off him.)

Replace it with anybody, I guess. Justin Bieber. The sooner he dies the better, eh?

Oh, and if hell is merely an absence of God, where is it? Does he give us physical bodies there too?

[origamiscienceguy]

The definition of heaven is the presence of god (while hell is the lack of it). So you won't need to wait in line to see him. He is everywhere.

That raises a question: is he present in our world or not? Because that would mean this is either heaven or hell.

He is present, in a different way. Once someone becomes a believer, "it is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me" (galations 2:20) So a believer is in the presense of God, and God has influence over the whole earth without dwelling in unbelievers.

[TD1]

Doesn't hold up.

He's only in unbelievers? Firstly, awfully convenient. Secondly, hardly the type of favouritism a father should show. Like only picking up the phone to certain kids.

Also, then you'd admit that the absolute, constant force in the universe is actually subjective dependent on place.

[origamiscienceguy]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Please reread it.

In summary: He is in the whole world, but only dwells in believers.

[Angle]

Dwarfy must've made a typo. I think he meant

Doesn't hold up.

He's only in believers? Firstly, awfully convenient. Secondly, hardly the type of favouritism a father should show. Like only picking up the phone to certain kids.

Also, then you'd admit that the absolute, constant force in the universe is actually subjective dependent on place.

[Teneb]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Please reread it.

In summary: He is in the whole world, but only dwells in believers.

Does this mean that believers are in heaven even in life?

[origamiscienceguy]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Please reread it.

In summary: He is in the whole world, but only dwells in believers.

Does this mean that believers are in heaven even in life?

Partially. We are still corrupted with sin on the earth so we can't be in the full presence until we die and get our new body.

[Frumple]

It means the nearby walls are in heaven, too. Everything but unbelievers.

Though, from what I recall re: the metaphysical nature of god, it actually means unbelievers just straight up don't exist, since a thing cannot exist without being of god and having god in them (otherwise god would be bounded and finite, and that's a no-no). To truly not have god in you, you have to disappear in a puff of logic. Something along those lines.

Things get messy when you say something's in everything and then not in some things, really. One of the two has to be false, and the former is usually considered the more important. You've got similar shenanigans going on with one of the standard answers to the problems regarding evil.

[Orange Wizard]

In Reformed doctrine, God the Father and Jesus are in Heaven currently. Jesus is there physically, and the Father just kind of... is. The Holy Spirit is on Earth, helping believers fight off the temptations of the Devil and so on.

Animals don't go to heaven because they don't have souls. Officially, at least. Personally I'm on the fence about the whole soul thing. In any case, humans are made in the image of God (whatever that actually means and the more specific implications are up for debate) whereas animals are not. Also is the matter that (as far as we know) (most) animals can't actually believe in the stuff required to go to heaven in the first place... but that draws some unsettling correlations with human unbelievers that I really don't want to go in to.
There's no reason to assume there won't be animals and plants in Heaven, but I don't believe animals on Earth will be reborn in Heaven.

... that got a bit rambly.