Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Metalsoul212]

Personally butchering should almost be a skill on its own. Having butchered large animals myself on a few occasions it is not easy. What is easy is butchering incorrectly and puncturing organs that are filled with toxins like appendix, kidneys, ect. That can very quickly ruin the whole animal. Skinning hide is also pretty difficult without a sharp knife and a very steady hand its easy to tear it to shreds or skin it uneven.

[Gentlefish]

Have we determined how hard a butcher's shop is to build? The build notes honestly make it sound like a fairly simple shop and mostly just forces you to harvest in a new location after field dressing.

[scourge728]

I think one thing most of those in the discussion so far have agreed on is that not getting any bones is odd, since it's kinda hard to ruin most of those to the point where you can do nothing with them, all I want to know is, can I still butcher with my sword?

[Gentlefish]

This is true, I can give you that. Hard to fuck up a bone. Might be worth a comment on the general forum considering how much of an echo chamber this thread is.

Thank you Kevin for visiting occasionally still. Even if you are, generally, disliked and dislike in return. Keeps us on our toes.

[duckman]

Speaking of bones, do fish still give usable bones for whatever reason? I mean, besides the bone needle and skewer recipes, what can you actually make out of these?

Bone meal (for a few random uses), bone armor, aspic, bone broth, fodder for charcoal...

I think fish-bone armor is a bit generous.

[lastofthelight]

That butchery change is so tedious I can't even -manage to read the whole thing without getting bored-. And, again, Dwarf Fortress player, who still enjoys 80's era rpgs, roguelikes, and does mathematics and economics for fun.

One of the things that I think is becoming apparent is that (and this won't make me friends on either side of the debate, but whatever):

1. Fixing bugs is less boring, on statistical average, then making new features. (not that they don't - they very, very clearly, do fix bugs on a daily basis ...but... they make slightly more new features 'on average' then they fix bugs 'on average'. Again, this is just human nature.)

and

2. The main developer and many of the active coders simply don't have an interest in a game from a gameplay perspective. They don't want something like dwarf fortress, nethack, or even a roguelike version of Project Zomboid or <any survival first person game ever>. They want a zombie roguelike version of UnReal World. And you can't say UnReal World doesn't have its fans.

And I don't think you can deny that UnReal World and, say, Dwarf Fortress are in different genres. Both are different, both are complex. Both have intricate simulations. But..... Well, perhaps a comparison to Project Zomboid and UnReal World would be better. Its not a roguelike Project Zomboid. Its more akin to UnReal World with zombies, set in the future. The gameplay used to be more akin to Project Zomboid, but is less so over time; and this causes tension. Different sub-genres. There's a difference between roguelike-simulation and roguelike-survival. Or something - I think the idea is clear even if I am not.

Still; I think eventually someone will fork it. I doubt it'll happen soon, but they don't even have a website with a dedicated forum anymore. They have tons of active contributors, and I think it has a healthy span left to it, but eventually someone will manage to fork it. The main reason it hasn't happened yet is that, for all of the 'controversial' changes, when you look at the actual gameplay, they've been fairly open and conservative about making their configuration options tweak able to everyone who wants a dramatically different experience. And that has resulted in a lot of mainlined mods and options that border on mini-forks. Most of the controversial changes can be turned off.

Bright Nights was never intended as a fork, from what I gather (as an example) it seemed to mostly be a proof of concept, to show that someone COULD make a different game experience without having to fork it, and I think thats probably a good effort. And, as someone who plays the experimental, I noticed that once it was implemented, the number of mod options really just skyrocketed.

I mean, its been 15 years since I've done any coding, but I really doubt it would be that hard for even one person with actual coding experience and say; remove the butchery changes. Hell, they'll probably do that -themselves-.

So while I may be a naysayer myself at times, you can't really say there arn't reasons a fork hasn't happened, or that there hasn't been response to the criticism. And I think on any sort of project of this scale you'd see similar problems eventually.

[azmodean]

Latest discussion if you want to follow along.
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/24878

Tl;dr I unrepentantly eat babies.
No wait, I listen to feedback and try to find a way to make most people happy.
That doesnt sound right either, just read the thread.

[Random_Dragon]

Latest discussion if you want to follow along.
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/24878

Tl;dr I unrepentantly eat babies.
No wait, I listen to feedback and try to find a way to make most people happy.
That doesnt sound right either, just read the thread.

Having seen your latest reply on there, yeet. Looks good overall, and mostly comparable to feedback I DM'd to Nexus, which I'll repost here for you:

1. I do indeed think that yes, simple butchering on the spot should return a proportion of all categories of yield. Perhaps what percentage might vary with carcass size and type of yield (i.e. getting all of the skin from a large animal would be difficult without a carcass rack or such, but it would be possible to get part of the skin at least), but either way it should realistically allow some proportion of all available yield. You might not be able to manhandle the carcass to get all of the hide and such, but you could still plausibly cut away a good amount of it and use that, if you were desperate (and if difficulty getting a full butcher setup is a concern for the player at the moment, it likely is indeed a desperate situation).

2. For skinning, I'd suggest either tie it quick butchery, and/or tie it in with a non-workshop equivalent to more thorough butchery. Quick butchery should be wasteful and perhaps more focused on meat, but it might not need to fully waste the remaining materials.

3. The last option, making butchering racks and flat surfaces optional but tied in with getting the maximum yield out of a carcass, might be the most complete approach. To me that seems like a likely outcome if above suggestions for 1 and 2 end up used.

4. I can see this going either way for small and tiny creatures. Related to suggestions in point 1, even if it is still required for full yield, one could still make it so that smaller creatures return a higher percentage of available yield when butchered on-the-spot.

5. That one I'm not sure about. In practice the yield could perhaps trend closer to full workshop yield, but I don't know at what percentage of yield or at what skill level things stop at.

6. Not sure of that either. I'm partially leaning towards either "no" or "depends on what plausible alternatives exist" I suppose. There are prehistoric methods of making tools capable of sawing bone, such as knapping a serrated or jagged edge adequate for the task, so it might not be as big a restriction as it first seems.

Sound half-decent?

[King Zultan]

I unrepentantly eat babies.

This reminds me of my of the first time I found a misshapen fetus, and I found out that it could be eaten, my immediate reaction was to eat it to see what would happen.

[n9103]

I unrepentantly eat babies.

This reminds me of my of the first time I found a misshapen fetus, and I found out that it could be eaten, my immediate reaction was to eat it to see what would happen.

How did the NICU staff not notice you wandering into the preemie ward?
I hope none of the mothers were present, they surely didn't need even more strife on top of some freak eating their child.
 

[King Zultan]

I unrepentantly eat babies.

This reminds me of my of the first time I found a misshapen fetus, and I found out that it could be eaten, my immediate reaction was to eat it to see what would happen.

How did the NICU staff not notice you wandering into the preemie ward?
I hope none of the mothers were present, they surely didn't need even more strife on top of some freak eating their child.
 

I'm super stealthy, and I couldn't help myself, I had to eat the fetus as they are so tender and yummy.

[Flying Dice]

See, the problem with that argument is that you need to actually be making a game.

Someone who can make that argument? Steve Walmsley.

Thanks for playing.

That's not even remotely close. Walmsley built and developed Aurora entirely on his own, solely for his own enjoyment. You were a single member of a community team continuing someone else's game who slapped his name on their collective work and shut other people out of the development process for minor disagreements. Nice try though.

An artist starts work on a mural in a community area. Residents offer commentary and suggestions. When most of the linework is done and they've started on the shading and color fill, the artist realizes they won't be able to continue. They tell people that they're leaving the supplies and paint in a nearby shed, and that anyone is free to keep working on it. People come together and bring it much closer to completion. Eventually, people get tired of arguing over how it should be painted, and need to spend time on other things. Eventually, one person hears other residents complementing aspects of the mural he doesn't like. He puts up a fence around the wall the mural's on, locks the shed, and spraypaints over bits of the mural he doesn't like, concluding by signing his name in big bold letters. He then goes around telling people that it's his mural, and that if they don't like what he's doing to it they can go paint their own.

That's you. You did nothing except take advantage of most of the other major figures in the community leaving to seize control of the project. You're a vulture who spends most of his time blocking sensible changes and adding half-broken feature bloat to stop other players from having fun.

But I guess it's too hard to refute people calling out your bullshit in a venue where you can't unilaterally delete threads and ban folks for dissent, eh?

[Egan_BW]

Later the original artist found a different wall, declared that the way that everyone was painting the original wall is stupid and dumb, and started painting a new mural all by himself, with blackjack and hookers.

Also some of the people who were working on that first mural went to hang out on the porch of a different artist entirely to complain about the guy who put a fence up.

[Altivera]

I don't like needing a butchering rack in order to get all the drops from butchering corpses. Before I just butchered and hauled the resources back to my base, now I gotta carry the damn corpse back to a butchering rack with a flat surface nearby in order to get a full yield from butchering.

[forsaken1111]

I don't like needing a butchering rack in order to get all the drops from butchering corpses. Before I just butchered and hauled the resources back to my base, now I gotta carry the damn corpse back to a butchering rack with a flat surface nearby in order to get a full yield from butchering.

I think the full butcher setup just gives you extra drops you wouldn't normally get and the fast butcher is functionally the same as just pressing B in previous versions