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Author Topic: D&D Alignment discussion  (Read 36878 times)

Criptfeind

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2016, 09:14:12 pm »

Wait? Why is Zeus Lawful Good to you? Zeus is written as Chaotic Good in the books I've found, and they do paint him as more flattering in his D&D incarnation then he is in 'real life'. He's not portrayed as the smite happy rapist in D&D that he is shown as in our myths, at least when they bother to talk about him at all. He's still, like, prideful and a bit stupid, but ultimately benevolent towards humanity. At least, that's how I've been able to find him written as. Not the same as our Zeus sure, but consistent with his alignment.
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Bauglir

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2016, 09:17:37 pm »

I'd rather it take a King Of Dragon Pass outlook, where deities of bad things are placated to make them not hurt you. This is also how some polytheistic cultures actually functioned.

IIRC a lot of ancient real-world religions used to work this way too
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“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Criptfeind

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2016, 09:20:05 pm »

God damn it. I didn't even realize this got necroed.
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Neonivek

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2016, 09:26:56 pm »

Wait? Why is Zeus Lawful Good to you?

He isn't. His stat write up says Lawful good.

Also Hades is Lawful Evil... Because of course.

And as stated they do not rewrite any of the myths surrounding them.
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Criptfeind

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2016, 09:34:17 pm »


He isn't. His stat write up says Lawful good.

Also Hades is Lawful Evil... Because of course.

And as stated they do not rewrite any of the myths surrounding them.

Okay well...

Presumably there's. A lot of different sources over the years. I guess it's, perhaps irretractable. But I'll say I'm looking a book right now where literally everything you just said is untrue. I'd say that, perhaps, if someone did write a book with a lawful good zeus that's the same as our zeus, they are a bad writer with a illogical use of the alignment system. But that doesn't say anything about the alignment system as a whole.
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Neonivek

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2016, 09:36:42 pm »

Well it has a lot more to do with the fact that the dnd writers will fudge things in favor of certain creatures and beings.

Gold Dragons will eat you if they get pissed off at you.

It is usually assumed that even though Zeus is the biggest Horndog ever and occasionally has violent temper tantrums... they for the most part he is a good and just god.

Likewise Gold Dragons even though they are violently intolerant of having their time wasted... it is assume the rest of the time they are doing good.
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Criptfeind

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2016, 09:46:56 pm »

I mean, the... Where do you get these things? It's not an assumption, the monster manual flat out says gold dragons go out and actively quest for good. And the draconomicon (which I'd think is a bit of an authority on D&D dragons) states that they have a great amount of patience for other people and mentions nothing of this violent eating of anyone. They don't even outright kill evil people unless they are actively doing evil acts.

Gold dragons are not just creatures with an explicable alignment attached onto them because of poor writing assuming it's fine to slap random dualities onto things. They actually work for that alignment and fit it in a reasonable and logical way.
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BlackHeartKabal

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2016, 09:48:46 pm »

Lawful Evil: Do you like living in a society? Of course you fucking do, and society is built upon violence. Only the rule of the sword is going to keep degenerates and psychopaths in line with the rule of law. Do you like honoring your enemies? Then Lawful Evil is for you, because while lots of people are dumb the would-be heroes are just mislead about the way things should be. It's a shame, because those of such will are excellent for achieving greater purpose. They don't deserve ire for a lesser philosophy, and they may be brought to see the light. Why would you want to let the worst among us hold us all back? It is for the good of everyone that the great rule over the small. The smartest and the strongest have the right to rule, because by following them all will prosper. Everyone has a part to play, and for sensate sewer rats that part is most certainly not deciding for the common welfare. Yes, it takes strength to lead the whole, even when they complain about the minor inconveniences that provide the best outcomes for an imperfect world. Do you have that strength?

Neutral Evil: You're wasting away. Every second of every day, your time left ticks down, inexorably, unstoppably. One day, that time will be up, and you will be gone from this world. But that's alright, as long as you find your meaning, your fulfillment. Unfortunately, the world is filled to bursting with those who insidiously desire to turn you away from yourself, and to serve their own power. Religion, politics, "morality", they are all greater causes that beseech you with the same message: "Forsake yourself, and spend away this life so that We may succeed in our great project!" Do you wish to die with nothing but the knowledge that you were part of a long and endless chain in but one faction in the war of ideas? There will be no end to it, not while you live, and not ever. By definition it may never end. These things are their own purpose, and what they hold in common is that there is no room for your good. So forsake your comrades, and your countrymen! Live for your own self, for your own sense of the world! Consume what you want, and do what you want, because the only real for you is this, here and now! Laugh, and grow fat!
These two are both something I like.
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Flying Dice

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2016, 09:51:20 pm »

Hm, thoughts on this?

A CE deity with the sphere of minor inconveniences. They and their (few, much-maligned) followers specialize in things like bureaucratic inefficiency, substandard craftsmanship, missing personal effects, &c. Cobblestone just a little too high, such that you trip on it almost every day walking to market? That's them. Misspelling on your travel permit gets you arrested for several days until the error is sorted out? That's them. One of the maids thought that your spell components were trash and threw them out while you were bathing? That's them. Petty Evil, but Evil nonetheless--and worse, difficult to prove to be malice when confronting it, rather than ignorance, incompetence, or a simple mistake. Making the world less cooperative, friendly, and well-organized not through grand, sweeping acts, but with hundreds of thousands of tiny pinpricks.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2016, 10:18:14 pm »

Irritos, deity of annoyance.
I like it.
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Rolan7

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2016, 10:33:44 pm »

Sounds like the nemesis of that Ankh-Morpork goddess of unsticking cabinets (and finding small items?).  Who would I guess be lawful good, or just lawful neutral, yet not the paladin or St Cuthbert type.

Also, heh, kinda great that one of the Greyhawk deities is a "saint", and named pretty much directly after some real world human.  Guess that's the sort of thing those innovative nerds came up with back in '75.
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Tack

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2016, 10:42:31 pm »

Dertius, god of procrastination.
His shrine is a loose stack of shrine-construction materials.

In other news, I always play Lawful Evil, because to be honest when I do I'm being exactly as evil as I need to be in order to unlock the assassin class, and that seems pretty lawful to me.
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Bohandas

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2016, 11:06:09 pm »

Wait? Why is Zeus Lawful Good to you?

He isn't. His stat write up says Lawful good.

I could've sworn he was Chaotic Good
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scriver

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2016, 01:12:15 am »

I suggest you both show what books you are basing it off.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2016, 01:18:33 am »

5e PHB: Neutral.
3e Deities and Demigods: Chaotic Good.
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