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[martinuzz]

I wonder if it'll affect May's popularity and makes her lose the elections.

[smjjames]

I wonder if it'll affect May's popularity and makes her lose the elections.

Depending on if they can tie it to her.

[scriver]

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

What are you even referring to now?

[martinuzz]

Heh, the city of Rotterdam has started a poster campaign across the city to promote free partner choice.
There's posters of women kissing women, a poster of a black person kissing a lightly coloured person, a poster of a muslima kissing a white guy, and one of a muslima wearing a headscarf kissing a jewish man wearing a kippa, all with big letters saying 'in the Netherlands, you choose your partner yourself'.

The initiative stems from the local party 'Leefbaar Rotterdam (a moderate alt right party, very popular in Rotterdam)', in cooperation with women rights groups Femmes for Freedom and Dona Daria.
City Councellor Ronald Schneider personally started the campaign by hanging the first poster in a waiting room of the Central Station.

"Women from certain other cultures and certain other religions more often are restricted in their choice of partner", Schneider says. "We are aware that men also face forced marriage, but we chose to focus our campaing mainly on women, because their problems are more urgent. There often is a double standard. What brother can do, sister cannot".

The action is already facing criticism from Rotterdam's muslim party, Nida.
Their chairman, Nourdin El Ouali says "Haha, a Leefbaar Rotterdam councellor campaigning for diversity? That must be a joke. This is a campaign by an etnocentric white councellor: 'look at us Dutch being free'. Pah! 'Our culture is best culture'. The campaign's hypocricy annoys me. It focusses only on intergration problems of ethnic minorities. I know situations where a dutch girl turned muslim and wanted to marry a muslim, that led to domestic violence from the parents. The Dutch government makes it impossible for a Dutch person to marry someone from Mali, because some absurd bureaucratic rules. This same city council that holds this campaign has destroyed women shelters through budget cuts. The campaign will contribute more to misunderstanding, etnocentrism and stereotyping than it will contribute to promoting free partner choice."


http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/poster-met-zoenende-moslima-en-joodse-jongeman-moet-laten-zien-dit-is-normaal-in-rotterdam~a4496931/

[martinuzz]

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

I do believe you read too much of the wrong kind of media.

[Neonivek]

Ok what about an article that says it is legal in the UK to keep your children inside their entire lives so long as you are Muslim?

I do believe you read too much of the wrong kind of media.

No... I got that here

I had enough of multiculturalism at the point where my country decided that traping children is completely fine if the victim is Muslim

Which to admit could be a misinterpretation... But to admit it is a less dark version then what is implied here.

[martinuzz]

Who'd you quote that from? LW?
Also, I don't believe it's a typo'd 'trapping', I think it's a typo'd 'raping' and it's referring to the case where refugees who arrive already married to a child bride cannot legally be separated from them.

[Neonivek]

Scriver.

Who'd you quote that from? LW?
Also, I don't believe it's a typo'd 'trapping', I think it's a typo'd 'raping' and it's referring to the case where refugees who arrive already married to a child bride cannot legally be separated from them.

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

[martinuzz]

Don't think so. Not sure how they plan to enforce that though. I guess you could do a medical exam every week on the children to see if they had sex, but that measure is traumatizing in itself.

[martinuzz]

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

[Neonivek]

Did the courts make it legal for the child to be raped too?

Interestingly enough there ARE countries where you are allowed to marry someone much younger then you... You aren't allowed to have relations with them. These are almost always countries that also have arranged marriage.

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

Interestingly enough you can marry someone who is underage in the UK normally. The same restrictions apply in the "You can't consummate" category.

Sweden changed its marriage laws to make marriage under the age of 18 illegal, even if the marriage was entered into abroad.

THIS miiight be what Scriver was referring to. Prior to this marriage to someone 15 or older was legal so long as it existed before entering Sweden.

Though Sweden has much stricter marriage laws to 18 only. UK, Canada, and India (And some US states... though some are also stricter) typically have it set to 16 at youngest (India TECHNICALLY allows 15, but it heavily dissuades against it)

---

I don't QUITE understand the concept that Multiculturalism means taking up the butt.

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Does+multiculturalism+mean+taking+it+up+the+butt?&spf=1495708265321

[smjjames]

Google doesn't know what to make of your nonsensical question neonivek.

[Reelya]

Well yeah, according to islam, you are allowed to marry very young girls, but you are not allowed to consume the marriage until the child becomes a woman (bleeds for the first time). Which is still way too darn young ofcourse.

Remember however, that until agriculture became industrialized, the average age of first bleeding was 16-17. That only started to drop around the late 19th century in industrialized societies. We can assume there was some lagging in nutrition in Middle East nations until after WWII, at which point they started to industrialize too. So the onset of bleeding used to mean something pretty different, e.g on average it was a year or two less than the modern legal adult age.

It's a rule of thumb that would have made more sense before, but sounds crazy now, because the relevant biology is in fact different now. People sticking up for such a law now however on the grounds of "tradition" are talking out their asses basically, because given known science, knocking up 13 year old girls was not the intended purpose of such a law.

[scriver]

We went over this some many pages now: Here is a non-paywalled article about the initial apprehension of a pregnant 14 year old girl. The father is her "husband" from Syria (their marriage is entirely juridically illegal in Syria as well, by the way, it is just their cultural tradition that allows it. Before the war Syra had an age limit of iirc 16 or 17, but the jurisdiction lost authority with the war), a 21 year old man. They got married when the girl was 12.

This is a paywalled article about the outcome of the case. The headline reads: "Pregnant 14 year old back with her husband. 'Not done anything wrong'" The quote-in-the-quote is in reference to the outcome - her apprehension was put down and there is no case of child rape made against the man.

Here is an article in an evening paper quoting from the court decision. The reasons the court decided it was okay for a child to be raped is that she is "mature for her age", "strong-willed", and "firmly rooted in her culture". In other words, that she is a Muslim and from the Middle East.

It also features quotes from Sara Mohammed, an official for the organisation Glöm aldrig Pela och Fadime ("Never forget Pela and Fadime" - it's named after two of the most famous honour murders in Sweden). "The court is not putting the child's best first. The court is putting the adults' will in centrum, and the adults' oppression. If it had been a Swedish girl they wouldn't have done this". "The court should protect the girl but betrays her instead. That she herself says she is happy to be 'home" isn't very strange". "Again they are putting the responsibility on her small shoulders. Of course she has to do as she's told. Of course she says this is what she wants". "Children adapts themselves to their family if they do not get support from outside. Children in Swedish families does it too. If a child in a [drug-] abuse family would want to stay, how would they act then?"

Notable is that the girl herself at one point claimed to in fact only be 12 years old, but later retracted that.

Also, for reference - the above article that I couldn't find was about a worrying trend of "culture" being used as an argument for not following Swedish law, with the case of the 14-year old being one example and the other being one of a man being acquitted on charges of making death threats against a woman on the basis of such threats just being "exaggerated" and "common in his culture".

[Reelya]

Yeah, the tradition is WAY out of date. When you married into a historic agrarian society it was into an extended family, and the other women were responsible for taking care of the girl and teaching her what she needs to know, and they were also the ones making the decision about when they were ready to have kids (which would be around 16-17 given known historical records). Wage labor changed the whole family structure to the nuclear family, where you basically have only dad+mom as the leaders, instead of an extended family with male and female elders moderating behavior of the younger married people in the house). Basically just consider what it's like when your mom and grandma are living in the same house with you and nobody has locks on their door.

So ... it's not really a "tradition" because that is taking obsolete rules completely out of context from what was originally intended and understood.