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Author Topic: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]  (Read 97181 times)

EnigmaticHat

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #570 on: May 21, 2018, 06:05:04 pm »

Rebels apparently has no problem showing star destroyers in atmosphere. Disclaimer: I haven't seen Rebels, just came across this in an answer to this post:
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/147527/how-could-a-star-destroyer-hover-over-a-city-in-rogue-one
Lol, egg on my face.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #571 on: May 21, 2018, 06:16:42 pm »

I recall the falcon dodging multiple star destroyers before jumping into hyperspace in IV. Must be a special edition thing...

Nah, my bad I went and checked it out, and there was a bit of a chase scene as they hit orbit.

The other points still stand however: the ground troops were the ones who tracked the droids to Mos Eisley, a busy spaceport, and not even Luke and Obi Wan knew which ship they'd be traveling on before they got to the city. e.g. any imperial ship would have to have been informed  by the ground troops to know when, where and which ship to target.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 06:29:14 pm by Reelya »
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hector13

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #572 on: May 21, 2018, 09:08:51 pm »

T’be honest, not really. Vader would’ve had carts blanche to say “right local government, no ships leave without my say so, else they’ll get shot to bits by then big ships in the sky” considering he was after a particularly important document.

Tatooine may not have been imperial space, but that doesn’t mean they have no sway there. Especially when the big scary man in the black armour is kicking about too. Hutts aren’t stupid.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #573 on: May 21, 2018, 09:34:50 pm »

However, perhaps "local government" was a bit non-existent on Tatooine. e.g. there was nobody to enforce such a verdict.

e.g. we see stormtroopers roughing people up, and a local spy they enlisted, but we don't see anything such as "port officials" or anyone else in uniform. e.g. the only way they could stop ships taking off would be to just shoot them down.

Sure, Hutt gangsters might have helped out if there was a profit in that, but they probably stayed under the radar by not trying to enforce themselves as some sort of actual government.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 09:44:08 pm by Reelya »
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hector13

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #574 on: May 21, 2018, 09:42:11 pm »

Well, I mean, the big ships in the sky are enforcing it regardless of consent from government or the people :p

Could’ve had some warnings broadcast on all frequencies for a while, to let people know not to interfere and such. Tatooine being a planet in which lots of criminals congregate thoigh, might’ve been some issues, seeing as nobody would know quite why the imperials are present.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #575 on: May 21, 2018, 09:50:37 pm »

They might also not want to broadcast that however, because if you give a public broadcast, the people you're chasing will surely also hear about it. Plus is "broadcast on all frequencies" a concept that really comes up in Star Wars? Standardized hailing frequencies is something in some franchises, but it doesn't come up much in Star Wars generally.

As well as the possibility that the many smugglers etc would want to get the hell out of there on hearing that imperials are blockading the planet. After all, the three (?) destroyers in orbit were incapable of properly intercepting even one Correlian freighter, so presumably, other criminal ships know the odds, too. e.g. Han Solo isn't really freaking the hell out when cornered by three destroyers. Everyone has a hyperdrive after all. e.g. if the imperials started broadcasting threatening orders around at people on the entire planet then they might have sparked a mass exodus, then not known which of the ships was the one they're after, if any.

e.g. seeing as the Empire's ships had a limited ability to intercept ships leaving the surface, their best strategy was in fact to minimize the amount of disruption and use their ground troops to investigate.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 10:05:16 pm by Reelya »
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Sirus

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #576 on: May 22, 2018, 06:32:06 pm »

TBH I sorta doubt that the Imperials actually "tracked" the droids to Mos Eisley. More likely, they put down a small garrison at each of the planet's major settlements, or perhaps concentrated on Mos Eisley due to its proximity to the Jawas and Luke's home. Considering how barren Tatooine is, there probably aren't many such settlements, and Star Destroyers can carry a lot of soldiers.

As for Vader getting to the Death Star...guys, shuttlecraft exist. So does Vader's personal, hyper-capable TIE. He wouldn't need to pull his SD off of planetary blockade duty in order to check in on how Tarkin was doing when any number of smaller ships could get him there just as quickly.
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smjjames

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #577 on: May 22, 2018, 06:37:38 pm »

TBH I sorta doubt that the Imperials actually "tracked" the droids to Mos Eisley. More likely, they put down a small garrison at each of the planet's major settlements, or perhaps concentrated on Mos Eisley due to its proximity to the Jawas and Luke's home. Considering how barren Tatooine is, there probably aren't many such settlements, and Star Destroyers can carry a lot of soldiers.

As for Vader getting to the Death Star...guys, shuttlecraft exist. So does Vader's personal, hyper-capable TIE. He wouldn't need to pull his SD off of planetary blockade duty in order to check in on how Tarkin was doing when any number of smaller ships could get him there just as quickly.

There’s even a scene of Vader getting welcomed as he exits the shuttle in one of the Death Stars many hangar bays.

Dunno where Vader getting to the Death Star came up though...
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #578 on: May 22, 2018, 09:04:11 pm »

The standard imperial shuttle doesn't even appear in the first movie, so I'm not sure if you're mixing that scene up with the scene in Jedi. However, I'd have to go get a copy of the first film to doublecheck since it's been a while.

The point I made was that Vader would want to travel in his flagship, all else being equal. So that would mean the ship wasn't available to blockade Tatooine. However, I could be wrong about that, there is a scene of him giving orders to a subordinate, so that could be because he needed to go to the Death Star. However that implies that every single ship was critical at Tatooine, e.g. disproves the "overwhelming blockade" idea.

e.g. he brings Leia to the Death Star. She's a critically important prisoner, and all that he has to show for his little mission, having failed to retrieve the plans. Traveling in a defenseless shuttle with Leia would be an unnecessary risk. Plus, he left the Death Star in his main ship, so returning to the Death Star in a shuttle would seem to show a sign of weakness.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 09:38:32 pm by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #579 on: May 22, 2018, 09:31:34 pm »

Oh, yeah you’re right, I was remembering the scene from RotJ. I didn’t see Rogue One, so, I was confused where the ‘vader Getting to the DS’ bit came from.
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #580 on: May 22, 2018, 09:34:40 pm »

I'm actually talking about how Vader is at Tatooine in the original movie, then he's at the death star conference, but the heroes haven't actually left Tatooine at that point in the story.

My assumption was that he traveled there in his ship, which would mean that his personal star destroyer wasn't on blockade duty at Tatooine at the moment the Falcon takes off.

Where Rogue Ones comes in, is that Rogue One ends at the literal start of A New Hope. Not to give too much away.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 09:39:41 pm by Reelya »
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Starver

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #581 on: May 22, 2018, 09:39:43 pm »

TBH I sorta doubt that the Imperials actually "tracked" the droids to Mos Eisley. More likely, they put down a small garrison at each of the planet's major settlements, or perhaps concentrated on Mos Eisley due to its proximity to the Jawas and Luke's home. Considering how barren Tatooine is, there probably aren't many such settlements, and Star Destroyers can carry a lot of soldiers.
It seems (from memory, maybe adulterated by the transition from the original version into later 'scene enhanced' versions) that having initially had gunners decide not to destroy an escape-capsule with no life on board¹, they then are bothered enough to investigate where it landed in the global desert.

They pick up signs of droids and think it worthwhile enough to track those to where they get picked up by the Jawas, and track them to the rendezvous with Lars, in both cases (and, in at least the latter, without any significant reistance being possible so going in all needlessly gung-ho) they obliterate their used-up leads after maybe having gathered intelligence.

Technically, the trail from the homestead is cold (assuming they can't track the onward progress of R2, nor the sandspeeder that Luke goes out in in his own tracking mission) and whether they encounter the Tusken Raiders or find Ben's sanctuary is unknown, but the sandtroopers cannot be attacking every isolated settlement or technonomadic crawler on the planet.

The troopers present at Mos Eisley are probably not as authorised to use Extreme Prejudice on initially tenuous links, maybe mirrored by similar detachments sent (or already present as a garrison force, before the space-ambush and co-opted into the search once the fleet arrives and needs knowledgable feet-on-ground) to the various other Moses on the planet, though the logic by which Ben goes to ME to get off-world would perhaps also figure in the military thinking to specifically patrol ME looking to identify the next node in the droids' onward journey (and/or that of anyone the baton would be passed on to).


Some illogicality there, though clearly signposted by the needs of the plot if you give it just enough slack.


One wonders what would have happened (given the doomed status of the blockade runner and her crew, diplomatic mission or otherwise) had a version of the plans or a hint of their pre-deletion existence been left in the ship (somehow avoiding the automagical knowledge of whether the data had been copied, as it ought to have been, perhaps by copying from a prior system, re-copying to the droid, then destroying the journalised original system to obliterate signs of the second copy of data) to make everyone think that the data had been mysteriously caught prior to further propogation. The big answer to that is that if it were to have been found then Alderan would havd been implicated for sure and possibly been retaliated against by force. (Good job that didn't happen then, eh?) Maybe we can allow for Leia and anyone else in on the scheme wishing to maintain that sliver of Plausible Deniability, then. At least it left her alive long enough to be rescued.


¹ Particularly strange, they weren't holding back from obliterating lifepods with life in them, forgoing the possibility of tracking to landing then capturing someone they could extort useful information from, yet they also forgo the possibility of shooting a pod no less likely to have data stored aboard (at the very least in floppy disk/USB drive/isolinear chip/whatever the SW universe uses, when asking a droid to remember the information and act as a sneakernet conduit is just too awkward) when it could at the very least have been opportunity for impromptu gunnery training without expending any significant amount of military materielle in taking the shot. They should maybe have tried the whole "shielded from sensors" thing, as per TLJ or some of the tricks OT Han had may have installed in the Falcon. Also, why not just tractor-beam every capsule back into the hanger?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 09:43:22 pm by Starver »
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Reelya

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #582 on: May 22, 2018, 09:59:26 pm »

Destroying any escape pods can be understood because the goals of the rebels and empire weren't symmetric.

The rebels wanted the plans, while Vader wanted there to be no plans. e.g. blowing up anything that could have the plans makes sense, along with interrogating Leia with "what the hell happened to the plans?" just to cover their asses.

However, remember that Tarkin wasn't concerned about the plans, and apparently let the heroes escape so that they'd head to the rebel base. Tarkin probably could have ordered his men to nab the droids, but he didn't. Because the droids had the plans on them, and if the rebels lost the plans they might not head directly to rebel base. e.g. Darth Vader is all about "get me those plans, or destroy them" while Tarkin was more willing to risk the plans falling into rebel hands, if that could be used as bait.

smjjames

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #583 on: May 22, 2018, 11:14:48 pm »

I'm actually talking about how Vader is at Tatooine in the original movie, then he's at the death star conference, but the heroes haven't actually left Tatooine at that point in the story.

My assumption was that he traveled there in his ship, which would mean that his personal star destroyer wasn't on blockade duty at Tatooine at the moment the Falcon takes off.

Where Rogue Ones comes in, is that Rogue One ends at the literal start of A New Hope. Not to give too much away.

I don’t remember at what point in the movie he showed up at the conference, but there’s at least a day, at minimum, of C3PO and R2D2 wandering around before getting captured by the jawas, an unknown amount of time riding the sandcrawler, and from there, at least two days before getting to Mos Eisley. So, with hyperdrive, plenty of time for him to get to the meeting. Doesn’t seem like any complex contortion needed to explain it away. Heck, a couple hours might be enough.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Star Wars [Warning: Spoilers inside!]
« Reply #584 on: May 22, 2018, 11:16:48 pm »

Destroying any escape pods can be understood because the goals of the rebels and empire weren't symmetric.

The rebels wanted the plans, while Vader wanted there to be no plans. e.g. blowing up anything that could have the plans makes sense, along with interrogating Leia with "what the hell happened to the plans?" just to cover their asses.

However, remember that Tarkin wasn't concerned about the plans, and apparently let the heroes escape so that they'd head to the rebel base. Tarkin probably could have ordered his men to nab the droids, but he didn't. Because the droids had the plans on them, and if the rebels lost the plans they might not head directly to rebel base. e.g. Darth Vader is all about "get me those plans, or destroy them" while Tarkin was more willing to risk the plans falling into rebel hands, if that could be used as bait.

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