Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Buttery_Mess]

I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?

[voliol]

The current Linux/Mac versions are not sellable (this is my fault, not the porting volunteers, obviously, since in the one case I never made a proper Mac bundle, and in the other, I never figured out how to do libraries/symlinks/wtvr in a wholesome way, and both these things are well beyond me), so we need to work through that before we can release on those platforms - this seems more feasible in the near-term than the rest, but it is not done yet.  That'll likely be a whole discussion with Kitfox, whether it works in the existing partially-open-source framework or something new.

[clinodev]

I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?

voliol gave the official answer while I was typing, but I'll hit send anyway

It in fact has been asked several times in various places. My interpretation of the answers is that he'd like to do commercial versions for all three current OSs, but will only do them if he can guarantee the quality standard he insists on for the Windows version. It sounds like he won't know for sure whether that will be possible with either linux or MacOS until late in the release process.

Purely my semi-educated guess here, but I bet he finds doing a version with Steam supported-ish SteamOS/Debian is relatively simple, and failing that, you'll probably be able to work out a Proton or WINE-type solution pretty easily for yourself. As for MacOS, oh boy.

[Iä! RIAKTOR!]

Will you add tobacco into next Villains updates? This shall be great!

[MaxTheFox]

What do you think about adding discrimination between species? I don't mean within species as that might hit a bit close to home, so to speak... but certain races (species) just not trusting members of each other due to past events is common in fantasy works and the game would feel a bit incomplete without that.

[eightball8776]

2. With all of the changes you have mentioned are planned for the Myth & Magic update, it seems to me that the current age system in world gen will be rather outdated. How will it change as you start to add myth features to the game? Will there be more set ages the world can pass through or are you planning on adding a way to randomly generate new ages?

3. Lastly, the game has the capability to theoretically generate thousand year histories or even longer. However, it usually takes an extremely long time to generate them; even on the best computers out there. Do you see any way of speeding up the process of creating large histories and if so, it is in the cards?

[Silverwing235]

1. Apart from using magic, are their other ways that civilizations or other factions could treat magic. Like instead of accepting it and actively using it, could they be more bent on something like eradicating it?

You may want to rewrite or clarify this one - devlog says yes.

* Removing or reawakening magic in the world

[Beag]

I remember you said animal people may not gain the same sprite treatment as other races, does this mean if we play animal person adventurers our equipment will not be visible on their sprites?

[TheFlame52]

How exactly does (L)ooking for vermin work in adventure mode? Does it draw from creature populations from that area? What kind of vermin can one find using it? Is it even possible to get a (wild) pet fairy by looking?

[A_Curious_Cat]

I’ve heard that the next version is going to remove the 31x31 limit on stockpile sizes.

Is there any possibility that the limit on zone sizes might also be lifted?

[clinodev]

I’ve heard that the next version is going to remove the 31x31 limit on stockpile sizes.

Is there any possibility that the limit on zone sizes might also be lifted?

Mmm. Paint all the things, including rooms in the z dimension, so dwarves will finally appreciate lovely 5 story Romanesque dining halls. 

[A_Curious_Cat]

I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?

Fixed so Toady One can see it.

[Toady One]

1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?

2. I haven't heard much about planned changes to the legends mode interface yet. Any concrete plans here? Better navigation, search, maybe event filtering?

3. Related, but probably more of a long-term thing: Would it be possible to make legends mode accessible from other game modes? Because I feel like that's where most of the game's true depth is, but that depth isn't really visible when playing adventure or fortress mode. Alternatively, have you thought about using the UI revamp to expose more legends info where that would make sense, for instance on artefacts' or visitors' history?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8206716#msg8206716
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8206719#msg8206719
Manveru Taurënér: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8206728#msg8206728
Nilsolm (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8206753#msg8206753
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8206796#msg8206796

1. Yeah, PatrikLundell's response is more or less where I am at here.  I don't expect to have much to say until I get started and make some actual progress, though I'll be able to mention fixes as they come up, rather than waiting until the release - though in the case of a 0.47.05 release before the Steam stuff, maybe it'll just pop up.

2. Hyperlinks are all we've really decided on.  Some filtering is possible, but I can't filter on the complete text (there is way too much of it that needs to be generated.)  But cross-referencing, say, one historical figure's mentions within another's would be doable.

3. Manveru Taurënér's response applies here - artifacts and visitors are two of the most plot-linked things there are, so we'd have to be very careful.  It'd certainly be reasonable to know anything that carried a person or object's reputation to your fort entity/citizens, and we do have some tools to get at those events specifically.

In the Steam version, to what extent will we be able to implement our own graphics not only for the 'in-game' tiles but also for the new UI menus and other elements? Basically, I'd like to be able to play with ASCII tileset/graphics and my own custom UI elements to match the ASCII look and feel. Can this be a thing?

I haven't set up any sort of scripting language stuff, if that's what you mean.  But all of the tiles used by the UI are moddable.

1:With the siege rework, will necromancers (and similar night creatures) be affected, as far as tactics go?

2:Will the personality and/or emotional state, in addition of a commanding officer affect tactics (or even lead to mistakes on the sieging armies part)?

3:Will army morale or, possibly general army mood (eg: the general mood of the sieging army is vengeful, after you assassinated their commanding officer with a balista) be a thing? (Or if it is, will it be a more significant factor?

3b:If morale/mood is a thing, how deep would it go (whole army, squads, all of a certain race or religion in an army, etc)

4:Are/Will actual officers which can lead an army/part of an army be a thing?

5:Will importance be given to certain groups an an army, with certain groups being treated as expendable (eg: mindless undead, trolls, less skilled squads), with others being granted specialized tasks, like flanking while some of the expendable keeps the fort busy, or going in to take prisoners and loot (and then maybe running off) (Perhaps the officers backstory (race, personality, current civ, previous civs, religious affiliation, orders, likes/dislikes, current mood) might effect it

6:Will enemies attempt to take and hold (and maybe even fortify) sections of fort, if they feel that going further in (without time to dig) means death (eg: you have a trap hall between your forges and farms, and they only have the forges), perhaps using/looting the sections they took, only destroying it (after taking all the valuables they can steal) if they are about to be driven out.

7:I saw something about conquerors adding new (and possibly humiliating) things to the forts they take. What other things besides that would they add? What does it entail?

8: Will (especially if you abandon the fort during a siege) any prisoners/ slaves be taken from your populations.

9:Will there be any direct/special behaviors for certain armies eg: elves/goblins eating corpses, or necromancers taking time to raise the dead between attack waves, or humans making actual camps which they rest in between waves (like, actual constructions, as opposed to them sitting in a corner or something) or dwarves digging down and releasing the hfs?(joke, don’t make dwarves so that please)

10:Will invading enemies have new goals besides conquering the fortress (or, maybe having secondary goals to fall back on if they fail to conquer the fort)
Feel free to ignore the examples here, these would probably do better in suggestions.
Some examples would be stealing/recovering(if the fort stole it) an artifact, freeing prisoners (cage traps), secretly subverting defenses (secret tunnels), acting as a vanguard for a larger force (Lay enough infrastructure down and soften the fort enough do that the incoming force can crush it),Doing a certain amount of damage/killings/kidnappings (either as retribution, a culling, a demand for tribute, or, if used alternately, a draft/tithe), killing/kidnapping a king/militia captain/ other position holder, killing/kidnapping a non-position holder, a cleansing (killing vampires, werecreatures, and necromancers specifically), ethnic cleansing (kill elves only (like those tavern dancers)), looting as much as possible, taking slaves/prisoners, or a scouting mission (probe defenses).

10a:If you would add extra goals, would some of them be tied to the villain system (assuming you add the left out features at some point), eg: a spy telling the anti necromancer alliance that you specifically harbor necromancers(which might be false), causing for them to send a force to slay the existential threat, or a spy making a secret tunnel for the goblins, or a villain dwarf becoming king by convincing the goblin spy to send information such that the next siege is out to specifically kidnap/kill the king.

MrWiggles: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8207592#msg8207592

Certainly lengthy suggestions especially should go over to the suggestions forum where they can be read and discussed.  Here I'm just going to be able to say that I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen in the post-Steam army update.  Stuff like #1/#2 are equally likely in their way.

Oddly, #3b is easier the more drilled down you go, since we already have some individual thoughts for people (though only a few of them affect battles, and not much from what I remember, especially in sieges) - we don't have a lot of civ vs. civ thinking that influences individuals outside of "fight!", though there's a bit of it outside of invasions.

Army structure has been strange - we've added some of it, vaguely, with squads and lieutenants, but there's no real hierarchy and it doesn't really happen at all with enemies in sieges.

No idea how far we'll get with specific tactics.  We have a few random things listed on the dev page, including some tools and adaptation, but in practice if any of those prove to be too complicated/esoteric (e.g. grappling hooks) we'll pivot to some different stuff.

I wanted to bring up (lack of) shadows of the mountains.
Slopes have their individual shadows - on the last email update images the "sun" seems to be in the "north". If there is a shadow at all - it's not midday, hence it would naturally follow that a mountain of z levels above would have a multiplying, overlapping shadow that extends on the grass that's below it on the screen.

Seeing that change over time would also be insanely beneficial for immersion.

As I recollect, we set up the ramp shadows the way they are because they read better that way, and it was difficult enough to get them to feel like ramps at all.  We're not planning to have them move or anything.

Regarding Steam: Given DF's extreme long-term development roadmap, are you planning to release the game labeled as Early Access?  Also, will Steam have its' own bug reporting, or will you redirect Steam players to Mantis?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209293#msg8209293
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209315#msg8209315
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209319#msg8209319
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209347#msg8209347
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209382#msg8209382
ror6ax: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209664#msg8209664
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209685#msg8209685

We figured that if we go Early Access, it'll just be Early Access forever.  The other way's not perfect either.  But just doing a standard release is the current idea.

I'm not sure what the bug reporting vibe is on Steam generally - I see a lot of stuff in forums there, as I recollect, whether there's a tracker or not, and I imagine we'll have our work cut out for us, like in the old days here on the forum when it was also the bug tracker, but with more people.

How much of done graphic work could be represented in adventure mode in this moment? How differents are both modes respect to tiles or interfaces implementation? Could it mean double task?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8209382#msg8209382

We had that news item a bit ago with the black bear pet in adventure mode - that was all using the current tiles.  For the in-game play area, aside from a few things we have to figure out interface-wise like tracks and sound markers, etc., it all pretty much works.  There are lots of menus and the travel/log stuff that'll need their own work.  It's quite a bit, but it's not double the work for sure.

1. Have you considered opening an official DF swag shop? It would surely put a few coins in the piggybank...
2. Since the beta is not in the cards, could we get the next best thing - more screenshots of your test runs? I'm waiting Thursdays like a madman only to have few tiny cropped images to look at.

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8211132#msg8211132
ror6ax (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8211160#msg8211160
clinodev: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8211237#msg8211237

1. Nothing new and concrete has come up as I recall, just a bunch of odd ideas floating around.  We're still trying to wind down the story/crayon stuff.

2. There's not much to see that isn't covered in the smaller shots.  But now that we have dwarves and the beginnings of the top-level menus/buttons, we've been cropping less, though crops still seem good, because they focus in on the new art, which is the point.

2. M >= (aSY/wSY + (A+1)*aSF/wSF) * (10 + 2*a_quality) / (Sha * w_quality)

Where does this equation come from? I went on a wild goose choose through the Internet to try and figure this one out, but to no avail. On the plus side, I learned a lot about fracture mechanics.

Here is the link to my original question, also: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8192435#msg8192435

Putnam: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8212462#msg8212462

Like last time, the equation isn't from a source and doesn't actually appear in the code in that form.  I'm presuming it's roughly aligned with the code based on whatever, but like last time, probably not 100% accurate.  In the code there are four separate if clauses that lead to different adjustment factors (there are x10 and x5 thrown in here and there just for feel in tests), and they may or may not add up to the expression on the right, more or less, and those bits separately determine how much the effective momentum is changed in the case of a yield/fracture/break (this isn't just a flat 5% figure as stated in the wiki, but depends on the relative material values) as the calculation moves on to the next armor/tissue layer.

As Putnam says, we have quality and sharpness, which have no units, and we have to fiddle around to get them more or less respected when deciding if an edged weapon penetrates a given layer or if it starts being treated as a blunt weapon from then on, so none of these can really be satisfying without a lot more specification of what those values mean/affect.

Why RAISED_GHOST interactions are currently removed from the game?

I know big part of comminity that like to play with funny bugs, like catsplosion. Why you don't release 'unstable' version of Villains update with buggy ghosts?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8212084#msg8212084
delphonso: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8215142#msg8215142
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8215145#msg8215145
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8215150#msg8215150

Yeah, these weren't fun bugs.  It doesn't run properly/at all, as I recall, and probably causes some insidious corruption as well.

Will there be a fix of famously useless professions / workshop entries before Steam release? As far as I am aware it's only a matter of adding some entries in raw files so it should be really easy compared to all the bug-fixing.

-

Basically I meant extending extracts made in various workshops - https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Extracts is very empty.

On a similar note, making cooked foods cost less and paper industry products cost more would also be a simple fix, but one that prevents severe imbalance that leads to either ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard gameplay experience without any reason whatsoever.

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213280#msg8213280
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213286#msg8213286
MC: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213307#msg8213307
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213393#msg8213393
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213594#msg8213594

I don't have anything to add to the comments really.  It's reasonable, somewhat annoying if unchanged, but there's lots to do.

regarding your latest blog post - will the "v-q-t-k look-and-do-stuff command set" be unified into one keyboard command? it's always tripped me up that they all do slightly different subsets of what feels like should be the same thing.

also, don't take this as a complaint or anything, i'm just curious - how often do you update the development page?

As usual, we're going mouse first on this one, and what we're ending up with is, yeah, something entirely different, where we are trying to have one main window per type (so building items and building queue would not be completely different, and more of the creature stuff should be pulled together.)  The keyboard stuff will follow this direction, and so at the minimum, I really doubt the t/q distinction is going to survive.  We'll have to see how the rest of the navigation works once it is working at all.

Dev page:  It's just awaiting its time for regular development to resume.  I haven't integrated it with the shift to Steam stuff, which somehow seemed like a relatively small detour in the grand scheme of things.

Can we have a separate thread for Steam achievement ideas?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213594#msg8213594

Just curious, is there an integration test suite or every release gets manually playtested for not introducing bugs?

Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213738#msg8213738
ror6ax (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213744#msg8213744
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213764#msg8213764

Yeah, there's nothing more than what we can manage ourselves.  There are things I look for, and some tests I run.  These catch plenty of problems, but it's not going to catch everything, especially with all-new stuff that doesn't have checks built up.  As mentioned in the replies, we're thinking of doing a slower roll-out for the Steam stuff, mainly because there are likely to be some technical issues that affect pretty broad swaths of people that we can probably patch up on the way through.

What are the current plans for alchemy? Any chance for some of them to get implemented during the myths & magic arc?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8213929#msg8213929
Nilsolm (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8214308#msg8214308

Not a lot has changed since those snippets, of course, but on the question of procedural recipes, yeah, we've already thrown some into the prototype and it's part of the plan, for whatever magic type uses stuff, pretty much.

Would you consider using professional impact analysis for different types of weapons to adjust the way armour and shield works in DF? A good example of a decent analysis of how shields work against arrows can be found here: https://youtu.be/y6IlEUm_Eo4 This channel has quite a lot of different tests, using different weapons and types of armour. I thought it might be useful.

I take suggestions over in the suggestions forum, and I'd certainly consider stuff like this, though it's difficult to sit down and watch a lot of videos as I go through there, even in the 10 minute range.

Regarding the myth/magic content, will the AI respond preemptively to foreknown world events? For instance, if a given region is going to shift to become a demonic hellscape when the planets align, and the date (and implications) of this alignment are common knowledge in that world, one would expect nearby civilizations to evacuate the area as the date approaches; if an immortal being's lover is cursed to sleep for 700 years, then as the curse nears its end that being might choose to return to the tomb where their lover sleeps in order to meet them when they awaken; and so on for a variety of other prophecies, curses and such where important magical events or changes in the world are knowable in advance. Is this sort of preemptive action on the part of ingame beings or civilizations planned for the myth/magic content, or even feasible to implement?

On that topic, how much does the AI currently care about future events? I know we have refugees, but those evacuate after the site is attacked, afaik.
The new (villainous) agents make up plans and conspiracies of their own, but how appropriately do they react to other actor’s plans if they know about them, especially ones they cannot stop? Like if a quester leaked their plan to steal an artifact from a dragon, could rival questers/quest-givers cancel their plans to do the same, instead opting for an ambush?

PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8215522#msg8215522
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8215732#msg8215732
Su: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8216560#msg8216560

It's certainly feasible - Eric Blank pointed out the invasion/refugee example, and I think in the rumor case they can actually leave a week in advance (not that the army's march normally takes a week.)  This highlights the main issue, that things are all really specific and have to be planned for one by one, unless you set up a framework, and then the framework often becomes a problem for a variety of reasons.  I've thought about prophecies a bit, but haven't given any broader prediction framework much thought so far.

It's the same for voliol's larger question - there are places here and there where some thing is considered, or some knowledge is used, but it's nowhere like a complete system.  Every little reaction needs to be added one at a time - that's not strictly true, if you have some sort of decision framework, which is kind of what the reputations end up being, but that's hopelessly vague when it comes to plots vs. plots etc.  It'll improve a bit over time, but I doubt we'll make any amazing strides here.

I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?

voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8217128#msg8217128
clinodev: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8217133#msg8217133

Nothing to add to those replies yet.

Will you add tobacco into next Villains updates? This shall be great!

It wasn't part of the plan!

What do you think about adding discrimination between species? I don't mean within species as that might hit a bit close to home, so to speak... but certain races (species) just not trusting members of each other due to past events is common in fantasy works and the game would feel a bit incomplete without that.

I'd been kind of leaning away from it in theory, but in practice, there's obviously some dwarf-elf tension in the existing diplomacy text, and the ethics stuff does do it indirectly (though at the entity level and creature types aren't bound to entities in history), and we have all the new religious discrimination stuff, including group-level memory of past events, so I'm not sure where it'll loop back around to at this point.  But I'd need a stronger reason to directly reproduce a racial discrimination model, in the same way we haven't recreated gender discrimination etc.

1. Apart from using magic, are their other ways that civilizations or other factions could treat magic. Like instead of accepting it and actively using it, could they be more bent on something like eradicating it?

2. With all of the changes you have mentioned are planned for the Myth & Magic update, it seems to me that the current age system in world gen will be rather outdated. How will it change as you start to add myth features to the game? Will there be more set ages the world can pass through or are you planning on adding a way to randomly generate new ages?

3. Lastly, the game has the capability to theoretically generate thousand year histories or even longer. However, it usually takes an extremely long time to generate them; even on the best computers out there. Do you see any way of speeding up the process of creating large histories and if so, it is in the cards?

Silverwing235: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8218668#msg8218668

1. We're hoping so, yeah!  Understanding "views on magic" is one of the goals for personal/entity behavior.  Partially because it's so bad with necromancy right now ha ha.

2. Yeah, it'll blow up immediately.  I'm not sure what replaces it - the myth generator itself has something to say about it, given how there'll be some larger structures over everything (whether we're talking about cycles or the apocalypse or wtvr).  However, the old "fading" age system does encapsulate the kind of default "lots of stuff is going to die" model that comes for free with a violent game, so I imagine it'll linger in some way.  But the main thing will be respecting the myths and what they say about the world(s), insofar as people understand them, possibly - that is, I'm not sure we won't end up with a distinction between objective ages and civ-based ages (assuming objective ends up meaning anything here.)

3. The main way to speed it up is to make it do less, at this point.  That's kind of what the myth generator is, in some way.  But if you want a 3000 year history with an equal granularity to what we have now, it has to come from somewhere.  There are lots of optimizations to do there, but no silver bullets left as far as I can tell.

I remember you said animal people may not gain the same sprite treatment as other races, does this mean if we play animal person adventurers our equipment will not be visible on their sprites?

We haven't cut their bodies into pieces, but we've actually maintained a uniform body size for equipment reasons, as I recollect, even though e.g. elephant people should be much larger than beetle people, say.  So it's still left as a possibility.

How exactly does (L)ooking for vermin work in adventure mode? Does it draw from creature populations from that area? What kind of vermin can one find using it? Is it even possible to get a (wild) pet fairy by looking?

It checks the local population for a local "soil" type vermin.  So it shouldn't pull up fairies, though you should be able to 'g'et any wild fairy flitting about that you stand near, I think.  The assumption is that your search is poking about in the grass/dirt, rather than looking around in the air.  If there's a colony nearby, it also biases the search toward finding an individual member of that creature type (like ants or bees.)

I’ve heard that the next version is going to remove the 31x31 limit on stockpile sizes.

Is there any possibility that the limit on zone sizes might also be lifted?

Yeah, I think that happened when I updated the interface there.

[clinodev]

Thanks as always for the replies!

[Eric Blank]

Thanks for the answers! I like knowledge