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[EuchreJack]

Hm, so you're voting TricMagic because their logic is WRONG!?  Uh, doesn't the TricMagic Town/Scum analysis work the other way, in that Logical Tric = Mafia Tric?
+2 Scum Points for House Webadict!

In a way, yes. Their conclusion is correct, but their leading information is not. But, if I'm fully reliant on that way of analyzing Tric, then I'd be under the impression that TricMagic can never get better, which is, in a way, completely dumb.

Call it intuition if you'd rather. I'd explain this vote a bit better, but I'd rather explain later. You can add some more scum points if you believe my explanation is unsatisfactory at that point, but I'd like TricMagic to explain more first.

How about I justy target you tonight web. Then you will know, you're all KNOW! WUBA-INC's food is the best.

I kinda wish you would do this.  I can confirm whether or not Web was targeted.

@Maximum Spin & Webadict: What is your read on NJW so far?

He's going 80 in a 35 zone.

Any ideas what that might mean about NJW's alignment? Null, Scum, Town, maybe leaning one way or the other?  What does "Too fast" mean, to you?

Hm, so you're voting TricMagic because their logic is WRONG!?  Uh, doesn't the TricMagic Town/Scum analysis work the other way, in that Logical Tric = Mafia Tric?
+2 Scum Points for House Webadict!

In a way, yes. Their conclusion is correct, but their leading information is not. But, if I'm fully reliant on that way of analyzing Tric, then I'd be under the impression that TricMagic can never get better, which is, in a way, completely dumb.

Call it intuition if you'd rather. I'd explain this vote a bit better, but I'd rather explain later. You can add some more scum points if you believe my explanation is unsatisfactory at that point, but I'd like TricMagic to explain more first.

And what are your thoughts on NJW? You haven't said anything regarding your thoughts on NJW yet, either positive or negative.

[Maximum Spin]

Any ideas what that might mean about NJW's alignment? Null, Scum, Town, maybe leaning one way or the other?  What does "Too fast" mean, to you?

I really don't want to give reads d1. It changes the facts on the ground too much. If I tell you what I think of what NJW is doing, then he also knows that, and what he does afterward has to be interpreted in light of his possession of that information. I don't like that kind of feedback loop.

[EuchreJack]

Any ideas what that might mean about NJW's alignment? Null, Scum, Town, maybe leaning one way or the other?  What does "Too fast" mean, to you?

I really don't want to give reads d1. It changes the facts on the ground too much. If I tell you what I think of what NJW is doing, then he also knows that, and what he does afterward has to be interpreted in light of his possession of that information. I don't like that kind of feedback loop.

Well, at least that matches what you said last round.  Plus you were town last round, so good for you I guess.

@Jack:

I don't think both would be the mafia team, although I think there is one mafia in NJW and Max.

Hm, why? Is it because of my reasoning?

Technically, you stole my reasoning from last round and applied it here.  So yes, it is because of "your" reasoning, because it is actually my own reasoning.  Nothing from last round convinces me to abandon that reasoning, and I think the scum team last round actually reinforces it a bit.

To be clear, my reasoning is that everyone but NJW and Max has gotten a turn as mafia so far.  But our mod Fallacy can't just pick them as the scumteam or it would be "too obvious", so the scum team is probably one of them plus someone who was already scum.  The question is which one.  To keep it "fair and random", there should also be some sort of chance that neither is the scum team.

So far, I see irregularities in NJW's one post (we'll see if they continue in later posts), and Max was initially posting a bit different but has just recently gone back to form (see above).

[Maximum Spin]

I've been posting the normal way I post when people aren't specifically asking me to do things I don't want to.

[webadict]

And what are your thoughts on NJW? You haven't said anything regarding your thoughts on NJW yet, either positive or negative.

None. I could probably look at NJW if you'd like, but I think I'm not great at reading NJW, so my opinion should be regarded poorly.

That was fast. Based on what I'm seeing... Nothing. There's nothing there to poke or anything. He's making some half-hearted jokes, asking some questions, blah blah blah and whatever. I don't really get the feeling he's scum, but he's posted once. He's kinda null.

So, exactly what you said. I have zero opinions on NJW. I frankly don't know what you think there should be.

[NJW2000]

Spoiler: replies to Jack, Toony (click to show/hide)

I was waiting for you to post something upon which I could formulate questions.  My thanks for the prompt entry into the game.
NJW, I'm noticing a higher level of aggression from you than in previous games.  Why is that?
Also, and my apologies for "making this about me", but why did your post ignore the fact that I did in fact ask Max a question, and am in fact engaged in a minor dialog with them.  Or, why are you taking it so personally?
Why no questions for the Toonyman?

Ok, wanting me to post before asking questions makes some sense. And no, I haven't been particularly aggressive, I just FOS'd you. You asked Max a question after saying probing them was pointless. That's... not really scumhunting, you just preemptively killed any pressure your question would have.

I don't have to ask Toony questions. I'd have been questioning him about the gambler's fallacy post at the start, anyhow. Not worthwhile, because that's an intentionally bad post he made to see how people respond. I don't want to get involved in that nonsense, because I don't think it produces useful discussion. Especially as this is an environment where people may seriously indulge in that kind of reasoning.

What do you think of Max so far, being the Maxpert? Can you promise to keep extra scrutiny on Max?

Jack is probably town by the way.

Nothing and no. I'm pretty much null on Max, and expect to be in the absence of mechanical info. Nonetheless, I'd be ok with a policy lynch on him if nothing better comes up, as it gives us information, makes town more efficient and removes a player I don't expect to be able to read. I know this "Eh, he can't make me think he's mafia D1 but I'd be fine with eliminating him regardless" attitude is pretty weird, but I feel I was vindicated in the last game on that front.

You're right about the second one, I think. Having seen more of Jack's posts, this is either Town!Jack or astonishing bravura.

Roden: How confident do you feel that you can recognise Toony's scum play after the last game?

I don't feel confident at all lol. His scum play doesn't really seem that different to his town play, even his tone read the same to me until the endgame. He's really good at flying under the radar especially early on, so early pressure on him honestly might be a good idea from now on.

I did originally want to poke Tric but I'm fine seeing how Toony reacts to pressure.

You can't read him at all, so you're going to pressure him with an RVS stage vote. How convenient. No question or anything either, you're just going to plonk that vote down and leave it. And any poking of Tric is just going to be a blue-text declaration of poking.

What's going on here? Is voting/FOS-ing people while declaring it's entirely to see how they react your typical scumhunting method, or do you just like the pretty colours?

I'll throw in my role.  I will say that I can tell if someone was targeted by an action.  Anyone else want to volunteer some info?

i will not be volunteering information unless Forced to, as my role can determine If others are lying. Or maybe it can't, who can tell? I'm not a lie detector. the mafia will naturally assume this is a Soft/Hardclaim, and they'll be wrong. it's actually a fAkeCLAiM, NERDS!

You know what this reminds me of? The chain of posts you created last round D1 that started here and ended here. Going from "I'm a very unlikely town role" to "aha, I was baiting the kill with that post". Looks like a response to claims and calls for claims, but could have fitted with any subsequent actual claim. Makes town read it and think about it, but doesn't tell them a thing and just leads them into second-guessing if they actually try to get info about your role. Doesn't even work against scum, unlike Met's fake commuter claim in the first round. It just leads to draining, sterile recursion, like a Rick and Morty episode.

So... is this something you always do when people mention roleclaims, Webadict?

[Maximum Spin]

Ok, wanting me to post before asking questions makes some sense. And no, I haven't been particularly aggressive, I just FOS'd you. You asked Max a question after saying probing them was pointless. That's... not really scumhunting, you just preemptively killed any pressure your question would have.

If it's any consolation, I wouldn't be pressured anyway. It doesn't work.

What's going on here? Is voting/FOS-ing people while declaring it's entirely to see how they react your typical scumhunting method, or do you just like the pretty colours?

This seems to be what like half of the people on this forum do? I don't disagree that it's pointless.

[Vector]

Scum has poison. I will not explain why I know that, so take it or leave the information as you will. Longer post later.

[webadict]

You know what this reminds me of? The chain of posts you created last round D1 that started here and ended here. Going from "I'm a very unlikely town role" to "aha, I was baiting the kill with that post". Looks like a response to claims and calls for claims, but could have fitted with any subsequent actual claim. Makes town read it and think about it, but doesn't tell them a thing and just leads them into second-guessing if they actually try to get info about your role. Doesn't even work against scum, unlike Met's fake commuter claim in the first round. It just leads to draining, sterile recursion, like a Rick and Morty episode.

So... is this something you always do when people mention roleclaims, Webadict?

I claim when I need to and I don't claim when I don't need to.

The thing is, the scum have a much better view of the game than town does. Claiming at the beginning can be beneficial, or it can be detrimental. It's a bit of a coin flip on whether it does or doesn't. All I have is my role. With my role, not claiming is beneficial. You can take that for what it's worth. You can think I'm lying, and the thing is that I very much could be lying. If anything, it entices the scum to kill me.

If you want to use last round, it was, in fact, beneficial for me as any alignment to not roleclaim Day 1. The reason I claimed Day 2 is because it was no longer beneficial, and the roles were going to come out. Look through the scum chat to determine that ToonyMan had no clue who the Captain actually was, but that this would likely not have continued into Day 2, where he very likely would've pieced together who was the real Captain. In fact, my actual play made as much sense as Town trying to find scum as Mafia-Ally trying to find scum.

If you're going to try to pin my play style where I was actively scouting for teammates to this play, you're going to need to use a lot more information than that.

I want to play fucking hardball this game, so I'll make a bet: I'm not going to claim even if I'm at L-1. And if you want to convince other people to vote for me, that's another bullet in your chamber, but I'm planning to stick to that statement. What does that mean to you? Do you think I'll stick to that statement or not? Does this make me scum or not? Because you getting stuck on this is going to put you out front, and that means everyone--EVERYONE--will be watching every word you type, because I'll make them do it.

Scum has poison. I will not explain why I know that, so take it or leave the information as you will. Longer post later.

I don't believe you.

[NJW2000]

-

When you claim is your prerogative. I don't like these D1 claims myself, I think they tend to take a lot of the sting out of a role-heavy setup for the mafia. But I'm not asking you why you didn't claim. I'm asking why you felt the need to post this:

I'll throw in my role.  I will say that I can tell if someone was targeted by an action.  Anyone else want to volunteer some info?

i will not be volunteering information unless Forced to, as my role can determine If others are lying. Or maybe it can't, who can tell? I'm not a lie detector. the mafia will naturally assume this is a Soft/Hardclaim, and they'll be wrong. it's actually a fAkeCLAiM, NERDS!

EJ asks generally if anyone else is going to claim, doesn't even put an "@all" in front of it, and you actively feel the need to reply with this ambiguous, could-have-been-breadcrumbing-anything, post that requires people's attention but doesn't actually offer any information.

 I'm not asking why you're not claiming, although thank you for such a detailed answer to that question. I'm asking why you bothered to write anything further than "no", if you had to reply at all. And why you wrote something that looks like activity and takes up people's mental space, despite saying nothing. Because I don't see what this post does for town. I can see what it might do for scum!web, however.

I have no idea if you'll stick to your not-claiming today. I'd say it's pretty NAI in either case, there are roles you shouldn't claim as either alignment and L-1 isn't a death sentence. Not really as interesting an announcement as you seem to think it is.



In any case, Web's declaration upstaged by an exciting claim from Vector. @Web, going to tell us why you don't believe them?

[webadict]

I'll throw in my role.  I will say that I can tell if someone was targeted by an action.  Anyone else want to volunteer some info?

i will not be volunteering information unless Forced to, as my role can determine If others are lying. Or maybe it can't, who can tell? I'm not a lie detector. the mafia will naturally assume this is a Soft/Hardclaim, and they'll be wrong. it's actually a fAkeCLAiM, NERDS!

EJ asks generally if anyone else is going to claim, doesn't even put an "@all" in front of it, and you actively feel the need to reply with this ambiguous, could-have-been-breadcrumbing-anything, post that requires people's attention but doesn't actually offer any information.

 I'm not asking why you're not claiming, although thank you for such a detailed answer to that question. I'm asking why you bothered to write anything further than "no", if you had to reply at all. And why you wrote something that looks like activity and takes up people's mental space, despite saying nothing. Because I don't see what this post does for town. I can see what it might do for scum!web, however.

I have no idea if you'll stick to your not-claiming today. I'd say it's pretty NAI in either case, there are roles you shouldn't claim as either alignment and L-1 isn't a death sentence. Not really as interesting an announcement as you seem to think it is.

Clams and clams and fish and clams.

In any case, Web's declaration upstaged by an exciting claim from Vector. @Web, going to tell us why you don't believe them?

No reason. I just don't believe Vector. Do you believe Vector?

[Maximum Spin]

I'm going to guess that what Vector wants us to conclude is either that A) Vector has poison, or B) Vector is particularly vulnerable to poison.
I'm feeling charitable enough to imagine that one of the two positions might be the truth. Anyone have poison so we can test this?

[Vector]

I'm going to guess that what Vector wants us to conclude is either that A) Vector has poison, or B) Vector is particularly vulnerable to poison.
I'm feeling charitable enough to imagine that one of the two positions might be the truth. Anyone have poison so we can test this?

I'm in.

[ToonyMan]

Scum has poison. I will not explain why I know that, so take it or leave the information as you will. Longer post later.

I don't believe you.

Why not? I believe Vector.

[ToonyMan]

I'm going to guess that what Vector wants us to conclude is either that A) Vector has poison, or B) Vector is particularly vulnerable to poison.
I'm feeling charitable enough to imagine that one of the two positions might be the truth. Anyone have poison so we can test this?

I'm in.

I was a day poisoner in Round 2. I was also town. Why are you sure scum specifically has poison?

You don't have to reveal your role just give me a second look through and make a conclusion based on what I've said.