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Author Topic: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition  (Read 59481 times)

martinuzz

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #540 on: October 27, 2022, 05:21:02 am »

Russia has declared lghbti+ to be a 'weapon of the West', and has decided to further restrict the rights of them in Russia.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #541 on: October 27, 2022, 05:36:54 am »

If that was their plan, they wouldn't have downgraded their claim from "Ukraine's going to set off a nuke and blame us" to "Ukraine is going to set off a dirty bomb and blame us". They greatly underestimated the amount of backbone North America and the rest of Europe possessed, and are desperately trying to find some propaganda claim that will weaken said backbone.
Except a modern nuke wouldn't be as destructive to civilians (comparatively) as a dirty bomb. Nukes, if detonated airburst, level cities but leave everything open for rebuilding due to the lack of huge amounts of fallout. Dirty bombs poison the soil with fallout for decades.
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martinuzz

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #542 on: October 27, 2022, 05:52:02 am »

While the dirtyness per megaton of yield of modern nukes is most definitly lower than that of old fission bombs, the modern fusion bombs still use a fission based detonator, so they are most definitly not so clean as to 'level a city but leave everything open for rebuilding'. Modern nukes will still pollute the soil and environment with fallout.

But yeah, you're right that a dirty bomb will create more fallout problems.
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Madman198237

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #544 on: October 27, 2022, 09:34:57 am »

While the dirtyness per megaton of yield of modern nukes is most definitly lower than that of old fission bombs, the modern fusion bombs still use a fission based detonator, so they are most definitly not so clean as to 'level a city but leave everything open for rebuilding'. Modern nukes will still pollute the soil and environment with fallout.

But yeah, you're right that a dirty bomb will create more fallout problems.

It depends on the detonation height, but notice that people still live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and had resettled them in barely any time at all. Unless you are intentionally trying to poison the ground with nukes they really do level the city and within a few weeks it's safe enough to enter.
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Starver

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #545 on: October 27, 2022, 10:08:30 am »

And a "dirty bomb" can be as little as taking your nastiest (or at least most available) low-level-but-long-term nuclear products (some medical isotopes, or their wastes, perhaps accumulated or sequestered somewhere 'safe') and packing it round explosives/doping a fuel-air bomb to be dramatically dispersed upon (otherwise standard) ignition.

Not to tell anyone how to do it (anyone whose direction is tilted this way doubtless has investigated it already), but it's much easier than putting together a working fission, or indeed fission, device. Especially if the 'dirty' part of the bomb is your real aim. The hoops to jump through are generally wider and closer to the ground, even if they still exist.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #546 on: October 27, 2022, 10:46:27 am »

Seeing as Ukraine turned in its nukes to Russia in exchange for the promise to uphold their sovereignty (so much for that), alluding to actual nuclear bombs int heir latest false-flag nonsense would require "NATO is arming Ukraine with nukes like we've been planning to arm Belarus" to be in their current interest.

Evidently it isn't what they want to be able to claim, which is the first sliver of common sense we've seen from the Russian government in a while. Not that it's THAT much smarter, we're already talking about trying to drum up a farcical false flag that basically runs on "WMD is WMD ergo we can nuke you now" logic to try and get away with it, but the bar has kinda long since been buried under the floorboards here.
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anewaname

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #547 on: October 27, 2022, 11:03:58 am »

If you take land but expect to lose it, burn the crops and poison the land...

They won't try to use a missile delivery system for radioactives, but there could be a plan like "we are concerned Ukraine will retake this region, so we'll leave a fuel-air bomb with spent radioactives near this nuclear power plant, let them retake the region, build up a new offensive against that area but trigger the bomb instead of invading, then blame the Ukrainian Nazis for blowing up the power plant to keep Russia from liberating the region".
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martinuzz

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #548 on: October 27, 2022, 11:21:24 am »

Russia has stated that it now considers commercial sattelites of Western nations supporting Ukraine a valid military target.
They probably mean they want to shoot down Starlink sattelites.

Bye bye Outer Space Treaty I guess.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #549 on: October 27, 2022, 11:35:04 am »

If that was their plan, they wouldn't have downgraded their claim from "Ukraine's going to set off a nuke and blame us" to "Ukraine is going to set off a dirty bomb and blame us". They greatly underestimated the amount of backbone North America and the rest of Europe possessed, and are desperately trying to find some propaganda claim that will weaken said backbone.
Except a modern nuke wouldn't be as destructive to civilians (comparatively) as a dirty bomb. Nukes, if detonated airburst, level cities but leave everything open for rebuilding due to the lack of huge amounts of fallout. Dirty bombs poison the soil with fallout for decades.

That's really not true at all. The "poison the earth for decades" notion refers to a cobalt bomb, which is a very "dirty" nuclear weapon fitted with a jacket of Cobalt 59 (ordinary cobalt metal) that is transmuted by the neutron flux into radioactive Cobalt 60 immediately before being vaporized by the extremely high energy of the atomic explosion. The energy of the blast turns the cobalt into a far finer particulate than any conventional explosion could, and Cobalt 60 (which is produced in very small numbers in an ordinary reactor - via transmuting iron into cobalt 59 and then the cobalt 59 into cobalt 60 - but far too little to readily collect) has very specific radioactive properties that make it a particularly nasty contaminant. The half-life of 5.27 years is long enough that you can't easily just wait it out, and short enough that the stuff is still extremely emissive. There's an inverse relationship between half-life and danger - the longer the half-life of a radioactive material, the less radiation it emits and thus the less danger it represents.

A so-called "dirty bomb" is just taking a bunch of radioactive material, wrapping it around some explosives, and detonating it. This scatters radioactive material around, but simple physics mean that the radioactive material is in much larger chunks and doesn't spread nearly as well. Simple radioactive materials don't generate the kind of hard neutron radiation you need to make more stuff radioactive, so it is just a lot of bits of radiation sitting around. And the thing about radiation is that it is pretty damn easy to detect. Cleanup from a dirty bomb would be expensive, but would simply amount to evacuating the area and sending a bunch of people in with radiations suits, firehoses (the vast majority of contamination would be outside, and can be washed down the sewers to be filtered out later), and Geiger counters (to track down and clean up anything that's left). Once that is done, the area can be reoccupied with no further risk. A fair number of people will have a somewhat elevated cancer risk, but it is not the doomsday weapon people think it is - it probably won't kill more than a handful of people other than those close enough to get caught in the actual blast.

Quite seriously, each of the groundbursts from American nuclear tests in the 50s and early 60s probably contaminated Las Vegas more than a hundred dirty bombs could.
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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #550 on: October 27, 2022, 12:17:20 pm »

From what I understand with dirty bombs, one of the issues when you're making one is actually preventing it from vapourising too much. If it's all turned into ultra-fine particulates it spreads too much to really contaminate any one spot seriously.
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EuchreJack

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #551 on: October 27, 2022, 12:33:00 pm »

I'm guessing the Dirty Bomb story from Russia is an attempt to legitimize their seizure of Zaporizhzhia.

And distract from Russia's kidnapping of the Ukrainian workers of Zaporizhzhia.

The scary part? Those folks being removed are the ones that have been most likely regulating Russia's behavior regarding the plant.

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #552 on: October 27, 2022, 12:36:40 pm »

It'll be for domestic audiences. They know nobody else believes them (even if they'd pretend to) but if there's news about radiological contamination and the Russian people have been told, time and again, that Ukraine was gonna set off a dirty bomb without any real counter-stories they're way more likely to go "Oh, Ukraine did it"
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Devastator

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Re: News Update War in Ukraine - Junior Reporter Edition
« Reply #554 on: October 27, 2022, 08:23:45 pm »

Imaging satellites would be a much more reasonable target.  There's plenty of public imaging satellites, and they hate their guts because anyone can see what they're doing through them.
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