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[webadict]

I feel like NQT and Toony are taking joke votes as serious votes, which I think is pretty weird.

Also

Vote Jim

Hm.

Anything else you think we should know?  Would you like to eandomly claim something only Town knows?

[notquitethere]

I am okay with NQT's removal as I think he is doing a thing where he votes everyone and then posts a giant list of observations related to each vote as a way to appear Townie.  It's something I'd see him try as scum because it's active and requires a bit of effort, but it's not casebuilding on a single target.

1. I'm pretty sure I've never done this as scum, though I grant you I have done some busy work things as scum. Maybe I've forgotten! Link or it didn't happen.
2. "casebuilding on a single target" when it's barely 24 hours into the game - it'd be absurd to put on tunnel-vision blinkers at this stage
3. I haven't actually done this, so wanting to eliminate me over something you think I'm going to do is very dubious.

I feel like NQT and Toony are taking joke votes as serious votes, which I think is pretty weird.

This is a pretty odd assessment of the game state, when the only person whose vote I took seriously that wasn't meant seriously was Jim's, which is who you're asking people to vote for...

[EuchreJack]

@NQT: Reads list or die

[notquitethere]

READS LIST

TOWN

notquitethere - moi

NJW2000 - Solid, close appraisal of arguments. I don't get why people don't like his play right now. Not a D1 candidate.

Toaster - Standard procedural play, with so many basketcases it's odd to see someone just acting reasonably. Has a bad case on me, but I can forgive that on D1, as town spend most of their time attacking town due to being the majority.

ToonyMan - Some helpful info shares. Fair appraisal of cases and good commentary. But non-existant push. I saw the same early in the last game... where Toony was scum. Still... big points for actually trying to work out the flow of argument in Toaster case. Would scum bother when they can sit back and see a mislynch?

Jim Groovester - joke claims. Says he has info on purple numbers but isn't sharing. Very casual play, but for all the jokes is active and attentive.

Maximum Spin - typically opaque, has voted. On reading back I saw he also claimed not to be convertible, just like Web. If these two are both town and are both just telling the truth I will be very disappointed in them, so I can charitably assume that they're both WIFOMing scum.

webadict - lot of unhelpful Web claims. His OMGUS against me feels like we're talking past each other. I've explained my position so the ball is in Toaster and Web's court to act reasonably. Web making a lot of nonsense up isn't automatically pro-town, remember he did this specically to draw heat when he was a mafia-ally.

Knightwing64 - has done very little other than push for a Jim vote and hide on the side lines. Still at least it's a conviction.

Egan_BW - willing to stick neck out and potentially make a wave in that is voting now for a boon, but otherwise has done nothing of any use as far as I can see.

EuchreJack - obsessed about his own role, very weak game, unable to actually form real suspicions or explain. He went from "I like NQT too much to vote them" to throwing around ultimatums soon after I voted him.

TricMagic - slippery and vague. Current vote has no case associated, which is a big red flag. That full on role obsession town!tric often displays has yet t materialise.

SCUM

[webadict]

@NQT
1.  Is invalid because it's not based purely on past behavior but what I think is the culmination of where this is going based on how I think you play.

It's something I'd see him try as scum

2.  Is somewhat valid, but I don't think I'm being particularly tunnel-y, but I could perhaps see that from your perspective (and my defense can be that this is only 24 hours in as well).  But, then, for me to accept this is to have you realize why I find your behavior suspicious or for you to find me suspicious.  I see only these two posibilities.

3.  Is mostly invalid.  I am postulating into what I think your game plan is, both because as scum you'd have to be willing to push past the mental barrier if you are to continue doing that, or in the offchance you actually explain why your shoving your hands in beehives, so that I have a better undersranding of why that is.  It matters not which, because it's speculation, and it can be destroyed through rationale on your part, but you didn't give any rationale, so...?

[notquitethere]

2.  Is somewhat valid, but I don't think I'm being particularly tunnel-y, but I could perhaps see that from your perspective (and my defense can be that this is only 24 hours in as well).  But, then, for me to accept this is to have you realize why I find your behavior suspicious or for you to find me suspicious.  I see only these two posibilities.

No I'm not saying you're being tunnely (though I guess you are), I'm saying you accusing me of not wanting to build a case in the first 24 hours of the day is absurd and unreasonable.

3.  Is mostly invalid.  I am postulating into what I think your game plan is, both because as scum you'd have to be willing to push past the mental barrier if you are to continue doing that, or in the offchance you actually explain why your shoving your hands in beehives, so that I have a better undersranding of why that is.  It matters not which, because it's speculation, and it can be destroyed through rationale on your part, but you didn't give any rationale, so...?

I clearly said I'd explain myself on D2. You don't tip your hand before it's played. If I do end up doing something low effort then you're welcome to upbraid me about it.

But anyway this is all ridiculous. You can't seriously be voting me for something scummy that I might do, when there are several players that have done literally nothing. I've posted more, and so have drawn more heat.

Tell me what you think of KnightWing and Egan.

[Toaster]

PFP so no deep insight sorry

NJW2000:  At what point did we leave RVS?

I dispute that I had done nothing (though I grant I missed that that was the point you were trying to make.).  Specifically with Egan: I’m trying to lay some groundwork for how people think in a cult game.

See, straight cult games are weird. Normally on D1 there’s good space to look for relational tells; people who are oddly distant or attached to another player, or seem to know something about someone else that no one else does. Here, that falls apart. One can assume that the scum here is two cult leaders who don’t have a current teammate, making looking for relational tells useless. That makes a lot of the standard D1 fare not the play as the relations both come later and more importantly CHANGE. Given all that, I’m attempting to pin down some folk’s opinions and thoughts on the best plays now to see if they change, especially on players I don’t know as well. I just worded it that way because it was still the start of the game and everyone else was doing it so why not?


NQT:  One of your top town picks is voting the other. How does that make you feel?


Toony feels like he did in BYOR16, and that’s not a great place to be.

[webadict]

@NQT:  ...

Okay.

So in a game.

With Cults.

Your plan is to wait until Day 2 to explain your plan.

Good plan!  I see no flaws!

Do you see flaws!?

[notquitethere]

NQT:  One of your top town picks is voting the other. How does that make you feel?

See:

town spend most of their time attacking town due to being the majority.

Web, I learned through bitter experience if I post a big post saying "I find X behaviour scummy and Y behaviour town and that's what I'm looking for" then scum can easily just recalibrate to make sure they're not the last posters or they have more votes or whatever.

You're being condescending but I don't see your point here.

Scenario A
1. I act a certain way during day 1
2. Day 2, still town, I explain what I was trying to do as a town player on D1

Scenario B
1. I act a certain way during day 1
2. Day 2, converted to the cult, I explain what I was trying to do as a town player on D1

But OK I'm obviously not seeing what you're seeing, explain to me the flaws. Then, as an additional challenge, explain to me why me not seeing your bespoke flaws is somehow indicative that I'm a cult leader.

[TricMagic]

TricMagic - slippery and vague. Current vote has no case associated, which is a big red flag. That full on role obsession town!tric often displays has yet t materialise.

SCUM

... so.. I'm not allowed to use my vote without presenting an ironclad case NQT?

[ToonyMan]

@NQT:  ...

Okay.

So in a game.

With Cults.

Your plan is to wait until Day 2 to explain your plan.

Good plan!  I see no flaws!

Do you see flaws!?

You beat me to this point.

I was also going to add that in the game me and 4mask were masons I figured a NQT scumtell was when he promised good stuff if he survived to D2 or D3, which is what he did. And was scum. I can even link actual proof when I'm at a computer.

Do you see why this looks bad NQT?

I can't argue Web's point he said before I could say it, it's a really good point.

Scenario B
1. I act a certain way during day 1
2. Day 2, converted to the cult, I explain what I was trying to do as a town player on D1

But OK I'm obviously not seeing what you're seeing, explain to me the flaws. Then, as an additional challenge, explain to me why me not seeing your bespoke flaws is somehow indicative that I'm a cult leader.

Your scenarios aren't accounting for the one where you're a cult leader.

In addition, it you were recruited into a cult then Scenario B is bad because you can make up a new deductive reasoning to aid your new cause even if your D1 play was honest.

[ToonyMan]

Toony feels like he did in BYOR16, and that’s not a great place to be.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm quite unreadable aren't I without mechanical inspections?

[TricMagic]

... NQT, you're alone aren't you? Truly alone. No allies to call on, no plans to plot, and you can't even rely on town to help you win. You've chosen a path where no one will help you, and that reflects in your actions. Rather than gathering info or choosing to lych someone, you're focused on a Day 2 that may never arrive. For mafia's sake, you're choosing me to push a lynch case on. That isn't a viable game plan. Hunt Cult, even if that results in you being hunted in turn, not this half-reasoned list.

[ToonyMan]

... NQT, you're alone aren't you? Truly alone. No allies to call on, no plans to plot, and you can't even rely on town to help you win. You've chosen a path where no one will help you, and that reflects in your actions. Rather than gathering info or choosing to lych someone, you're focused on a Day 2 that may never arrive. For mafia's sake, you're choosing me to push a lynch case on. That isn't a viable game plan. Hunt Cult, even if that results in you being hunted in turn, not this half-reasoned list.

Tric you're so insufferable.

I think it's interesting NQT puts you at the bottom of their reads. I think there's actual merit there. I'm not convinced NQT is town or scum, but I like his underdog spirit he basically has to give every game by being naturally suspected by a lot of players in this current meta.

You get the exact opposite treatment Tric and I would say you've done far less than NQT in this game.

[notquitethere]

TricMagic

... so.. I'm not allowed to use my vote without presenting an ironclad case NQT?

We've left the RVS phase. If you vote me without any reasons given then I am going to think you are scum.

... NQT, you're alone aren't you? Truly alone. No allies to call on, no plans to plot, and you can't even rely on town to help you win. You've chosen a path where no one will help you, and that reflects in your actions. Rather than gathering info or choosing to lych someone, you're focused on a Day 2 that may never arrive. For mafia's sake, you're choosing me to push a lynch case on. That isn't a viable game plan. Hunt Cult, even if that results in you being hunted in turn, not this half-reasoned list.

Cute fanfic. Make a case. What do you think of Egan?


Toony

You beat me to this point.

What point?

I was also going to add that in the game me and 4mask were masons I figured a NQT scumtell was when he promised good stuff if he survived to D2 or D3, which is what he did. And was scum. I can even link actual proof when I'm at a computer.

If you do that then I'll link to a game where I did it as town. It's just something I do, it's not a tell.

Do you see why this looks bad NQT?

I see why you think so, but I think if I claimed everything I was thinking and doing on D1 then you'd have other things to say about my play.

Your scenarios aren't accounting for the one where you're a cult leader.

OK:

Scenario C:
- I'm a cult leader, I say I'll explain myself on D2
- D2 arrives, I explain myself.

I'm not seeing the uniquely problematic element here. Like, if I'm cult then me lying about my motives is par for the course.