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[scriver]

Don't do this pretentious dance as if the one making a disearnest argument when you're the one who won't engage in good faith.

Yes, i daid that. Because of how he responded to me. Your point?

[Loud Whispers]

No, LW was literally claiming there is no hamas in the West Bank, and he's done it previously in this thread as well.

Okay let's look where I claimed that. Here are every single instance I mention West Bank, Hamas, or Hamas not being in an area

Slippers and PJs, the new Hamas uniform.

bruh

in west bank

>we must destroy hamas who control gaza
>air strike civilians in west bank

From the article I was responding to:

The BBC has spoken to relatives of the men killed, witnesses in the area at the time, and a paramedic at the scene. All provided strong evidence that the men were not members of armed militant groups, and that no clashes with Israeli forces were taking place in the location at the time.

Khalid al-Ahmad, the first paramedic to arrive that morning, is convinced the men were doing nothing wrong.
"One of them was wearing slippers and pyjamas," he told the BBC. "Don't you think that someone who wants to resist [the Israeli occupation] would at least wear proper shoes?"

The IDF directed us to a statement it released at the time, which said that "during the operation, an aircraft struck a terrorist squad that hurled explosives at the forces operating in the area".
Footage from both the IDF and a nearby CCTV camera does not show any clear evidence of confrontations with Palestinians in al-Shuhada at the time of the strike.

The four brothers - Alaa, Hazza, Ahmad, and Rami Darweesh - were aged between 22 and 29 years old. They were Palestinian emigrants who had returned from Jordan a few years earlier with their mother and five siblings.
They had Israeli permits, allowing them to cross into Israel for agricultural work each day. These permits are often difficult to obtain and are rapidly withdrawn from anyone Israel sees as a security threat - or as linked to someone who is.

The three men killed with them were members of their extended family.
Permits for two of the brothers, seen by the BBC, were issued in September 2023 and valid for several months. The borders with Israel have been closed to Palestinian workers since the Hamas attacks in October.
The paramedic, Khalid al-Ahmad, said that after 20 years working in Jenin, he was used to scanning trauma sites for weapons or explosives, as a basic safety routine.

"I would tell you if there were weapons there," he said. "Honestly, these were civilians. There was nothing relating to the resistance - no bullets, no weapons. And there was no Israeli presence at all."
Armed Palestinian groups - usually quick to claim any members killed by Israeli forces - have been silent about these seven men, with no statement describing any of them as "martyrs" for their cause.

Night-vision drone footage provided by the IDF shows small flashes followed by an explosion as vehicles pass along the road - a heat pattern that could be produced by a petrol bomb. The video does not have a date-stamp or time-stamp.
The army also provided similar footage of its air strike on the location - but the two pieces of video are cut and edited together, making it impossible to tell how much time passed between them.

We asked the IDF to clarify the timings of both events. It replied that it would not be providing any more comment or information.
The timing is important, because of the circumstances needed under international law to justify using lethal force.

The UN's human rights body described the situation in the West Bank at the end of last year as "alarming and urgent".
"Israeli forces have increasingly used military tactics and weapons in law enforcement operations," a statement from its spokesperson said in November. "Law enforcement is governed by international human rights law, which prohibits the intentional use of lethal force except when strictly necessary to protect life."

Ibtesam Asous, the men's mother, said she had seen a change in the methods used by Israeli forces in the West Bank since the Hamas attacks on Israel on 7 October.
"They are acting just as they used to," she said. "The only thing that changed is that, before, the army would shoot a guy in his leg. But now it's bigger - now they are bombing with rockets and killing as many people as they can."

According to UN figures, last year was the bloodiest on record in the West Bank: 492 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces - 300 of them since the Hamas attacks in October, including 80 children.
Almost all were killed with live ammunition.

Honestly, I apologise to you Scriver. I was in the wrong. Upon reviewing the article I realise now that the PA and Israeli military don't govern West Bank, it's actually Hamas. But maybe I was confused, I didn't mean to write "air strike civilians in West Bank," I meant to write "air strike civilians in West Bank where there are literally no Hamas ever."

Sorry for the confusion. I will be better ;[

The United Nations has called on Israel to end “unlawful killings” and settler violence in the occupied West Bank, warning of a rapidly deteriorating human rights situation during intensified Israeli raids.

In a report published on Thursday, the UN Human Rights Office detailed a “sharp increase” in air strikes and military incursions into densely populated refugee camps, resulting in deaths, injuries and widespread damage to civilian infrastructure in the occupied territory.
“The use of military tactics means and weapons in law enforcement contexts, the use of unnecessary or disproportionate force, and the enforcement of broad, arbitrary and discriminatory movement restrictions that affect Palestinians are extremely troubling,” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Turk said in a statement.

Since then, the UN has verified the deaths of at least 300 Palestinians in the West Bank, including 79 children, the report said. Of these, 291 were killed by Israeli forces, eight by settlers and one was killed by either soldiers or settlers.
Nearly 4,800 Palestinians have been arrested since the war on Gaza began.
Since October 7, the UN has documented a “sharp rise in settler attacks”, including “shootings, burning of homes and vehicles, and uprooting of trees”.

There is no Hamas in Israeli occupied West Bank; there is no Hamas gov in West Bank at all. Yet the IDF continues to show it's brave stance in opposing military grade olive trees and protecting Israeli settlers who are just defending Israel from a potential invasion by invading Palestinian houses. And why not air strike a refugee camp. I can't think of any reasons not too -_-

This whole "Palestinians are all nazis and we must denazify them" really falls apart when you're just taking their land. Got more in common with conquistadors civilising the natives and teaching them to celebrate their own conquest

Yeah see, sorry for the confusion again. Although I wrote "There is no Hamas in Israeli occupied West Bank; there is no Hamas gov in West Bank at all." I meant to write "the Israeli government in its merciful competence allow Hamas to proliferate under military supervision, except wherever the Palestinian government exists, because in those places not even a single molecule of Hamas exists."

I have failed you all. I even meant to literally claim Hamas don't even exist, I actually had evidence Hamas were just a literary device created by Ian Fleming in 1952, fortunately I lost the manuscript before I could embarass myself ;[

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is what his church looks like now. The world's 3rd oldest church. The common evangelical W

The archbishop in that 2014 interview has reportedly survived this bombing though I haven't found any interviews with him post-bombing. Maybe he's still recovering or cat's got his tongue. This is what his church had to say:

The Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem expresses its strongest condemnation of the Israeli airstrike that have struck its church compound in the city of Gaza.

The Patriarchate emphasizes that targeting churches and their institutions, along with the shelters they provide to protect innocent citizens, especially children and women who have lost their homes due to Israeli airstrikes on residential areas over the past thirteen days, constitutes a war crime that cannot be ignored.

Despite the evident targeting of the facilities and shelters of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem and other churches – including the Episcopal Church of Jerusalem Hospital, other schools, and social institutions – the Patriarchate, along with the other churches, remain committed to fulfilling its religious and moral duty in providing assistance, support, and refuge to those in need, amidst continuous Israeli demands to evacuate these institutions of civilians and the pressures exerted on the churches in this regard.

The Patriarchate stresses that it will not abandon its religious and humanitarian duty, rooted in its Christian values, to provide all that is necessary in times of war and peace alike.

The IDF has not reported any evidence or reasoning as to why they did this. So it once again falls upon the dead Christians to prove they weren't terrorists supporting Hamas

This is not to be confused with Latin Catholic Church

On Saturday, Vatican News reported that the IDF had entered the compound, shooting at anyone leaving the church. “The victims are an elderly woman and her daughter who rushed out of the building to rescue her mother. Israel has justified the attack, claiming the presence of a missile launcher in the parish,” it reported.

In a statement quoted by the BBC on Sunday, the IDF said: “During the dialogue between the IDF and representatives of the community, no reports of a hit on the church, nor civilians being injured or killed, were raised. A review of the IDF’s operational findings support this.”

At the Angelus on Sunday, Pope Francis condemned the attack on the compound, “where there are no terrorists, but families, children, people who are sick and have disabilities, and nuns . . . Some say, ‘This is terrorism. This is war.’ Yes, it is war. It is terrorism.”

Writing on social media on Saturday, Hammam Farah, a psychotherapist based in Canada, described the two women as “family friends”. They had been walking to the convent to use the only bathroom, he wrote. “Their bodies remain strewn across the church courtyard. . . The Christian community in Gaza is on the verge of extinction.” His own family members remained in the compound.

According to the Patriarchate, earlier in the morning “a rocket from an IDF tank targeted the convent.” The building’s generator — its only source of electricity — and “fuel resources” had been destroyed. “The house was damaged by the resulting explosion and massive fire. Two more rockets, fired by an IDF tank, targeted the same Convent and rendered the home uninhabitable. The 54 disabled persons are currently displaced and without access to the respirators that some of them need to survive.”

The statement continued that, on Friday night, three people had been wounded inside the church compound as the result of “heavy bombing” in the area. Solar panels and water tanks — “indispensable for the survival of the community” — had been destroyed. The Patriarchate was “at a loss to comprehend how such an attack could be carried out, even more so as the whole Church prepares for Christmas”.

n addition, under the ICC Rome Statute, in non-international armed conflicts, it is war crime to intentionally direct attacks against protected objects, namely buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected. To benefit from this protection from all forms of attack, the protected objects must not be used by a party to a conflict for acts harmful to the enemy.

I'm sure the Pope is just lying though and it is both moral and productive to bomb churches because they're harbouring terrorists until they prove they're not. And I may as well trust police who swear the black man they just killed reached for a gun. Can't wait for the next episode of "we didn't kill you, Hamas did. But if we did kill you, it was an accident, and if it wasn't an accident, you can't prove you didn't have a rocket launcher."

Just glad the IDF no longer has to fear ancient churches and disabled refugees threatening their operations. Maybe the sniper should target himself the next time he guns down a family.

Here's where I foolishly made the mistake of reviewing the evidence and not concluding the churches weren't full of Hamas. I now know the Pope is a liar and probably the antichrist too. I should have written "it now falls on dead Christians to prove there is literally no Hamas inside their church or in the west bank, where there is literally no Hamas too."

You don't need a hypothetical. Even in West Bank with no Hamas presence you can shoot them in the back of the head and it doesn't even result in an arrest, let alone a published report

I know here I was referring to a linked article where there was no Hamas presence and the IDF were filmed shooting an unarmed civilian in the back of the head whilst he fled for his life, but I erred; I didn't make it clearer I was actually saying there is literally no Hamas presence in the west bank.

I'm not asking to prove the people killed weren't hamas. You weren't even claiming the people killed weren't hamas. You were claiming there is no hamas on the West Bank. This is what you have to defend. It's well documented that hamas is active in the west bank too. They fatah's biggest competitor for the leadership of it ffs.

Don't do this pretentious dance as if the one making a disearnest argument when you're the one who won't engage in good faith.

I've been admonished, and rightfully so. I apologise for dishonestly engaging with everyone by making carefully cited arguments. I should have stooped to the levels of the honest and upright people I was debating with. Instead of having sources for everything and carefully wording my arguments making it absolutely clear that I was disturbed the investigations showed civilians being deliberately targeted, I should have been defending you scriver, because I also forgot to say "scriver is literally not hamas." And I know you're one of the good ones, who would never ask someone to defend a claim they never made. But you should be careful; if someone asked me to prove you're not Hamas... All I'm saying is it's not what I'd have to defend, it's what I'd have the evidence to believe. And I don't have any evidence to believe you're not secretly Hamas, it's just good faith I believe you're a fine dancer

[...]UNRWA is full of hateful and/or corrupt people who use humanitarian aid money to spread an ideology of hate, fuel the war effort against Israel and make Hamas leaders rich.

Where is your evidence for this strong claim?  Without decent evidence the UN have nothing to acknowledge.

Really, I should have just done the morally brave thing and claim the UNRWA support Hamas without evidence

If they were firing rockets from churches in 2014 what makes you think they wouldn't be doing it now?

I should have done the hard work to claim rockets were fired from churches without evidence

journalist stuff - I am too lazy to go through that. Israel, most likely, eliminated some hostile propagondists journalists on purpose (not that there is reliable evidence of that), but most are just victims of war or even combatants. Palestinians actively use the status of journalists in their war tactics and many of those are just not journalists at all. Foreign journalists just LOVE that place, and when there are many people of a certain category in a dangerous place, a high number of them will die.

I should have really just thought about my life and claimed all the journalists the IDF killed were propagandists and militants without evidence

And actions of Palestinians (no, not HAMAS, civilians actively participated in the 7th October's "fun") go beyond cold terrorism. I think calling them terrorists is generous. Monsters or maniacs fit way better. They murdered not to induce fear and force Israelis to do something. They murdered with pure sadistic glee, with genocidal intention, they did it because they enjoyed the process. They also screamed Allahu Akbar while doing so sincerely believing that they are doing something holy

WHY DIDN'T I JUST CLAIM Palestinian civilians participated in the 7th of October terrorist attack without evidence

This de facto country received serious international support from the West (various charities that did help HAMAS) and from Iran\Russia\Qatar\etc who provided more direct support to boost their military strength.

In the end, by 2023, Gaza was stronger militarily than most other countries of a similar size. If you pit the army of Gaza against the army of Latvia - Latvians would be steamrolled.

I should have just claimed the West and various charities helped Hamas without evidence

Even if I accept the claim that Israel is just randomly detaining all men of fighting age (but then why we haven't seen such photos from the beginning?) it is a justified military tactic in a hostile urban environment - detain all men who may be combatants until proven otherwise. And those men aren't beaten, aren't tortured, aren't raped. Like, I dunno, Ukrainians on occupied territories. But somehow this mild, by standards of war, treatment is something "impossible to tolerate".

Just by laws of probability, many of those partially naked men, directly or indirectly participated in an act of utter barbarity on Oct 7th and face the consequences of their EVIL actions. And yes, not all of them participated in it but it is how social species work - if part of your "tribe" does stuff, you'll face consequences, too.

That I should just support treating everyone as combatants until proven otherwise and that they should pay the consequences for sharing the same race as terrorists... I'm so ashamed of the way I have acted

So yeah I'll accept your apology Scriver

[hector13]

Don't do this pretentious dance as if the one making a disearnest argument when you're the one who won't engage in good faith.

Yes, i daid that. Because of how he responded to me. Your point?

You’re wrong about how you’re interpeting what LW is saying, as previously stated.

I mean, we can go around in circles arguing about it if you want, or you can just read the last three posts or so on a loop for a bit until you feel it’s enough.

PPE: never mind, LW has more stamina for nonsense than I do apparently.

Actual edit: you forgot the post in which he said a lot of the children killed in Gaza might be soldiers without evidence too:

Guys, are you seriously trying to counter my words by giving links to protests that were much smaller in scale? OK, I should have been more precise with my wording but do you really think I am stupid enough to think that a city of the size of London with such a diverse population didn't produce some protests for nearly everything?

Now the "It is because the British government is pro-Israeli" part. It is a more valid explanation but the problem with this assumption is that Britain is not the only country with that kind of protests and it doesn't seem to be directly proportional to the level of support to Israel.

___________

Now the children part... Using Al Jazeera as a news source for this war is a questionable idea. They take their numbers directly from the Gazan Health Ministry.

Also, a lot of those children may actually be combatants. We are talking about the side which is not shy of using child soldiers.

And, as I stated it earlier, considering HAMAS human shield tactics, the density of population, and the intensity of the war - Those numbers are very low. It is a pity that innocents die in wars but it is beyond simplistic to call for a ceasefire based only on that.

(looking at how it works in Gaza I feel that Ukraine is idiotic in informational warfare, we should also use estimates we can't prove as proven numbers and "count" victims instantly. I am already seeing tons of "there are more children killed in Gaza in a month than in two years of Ukrainian war" takes and this is a direct result of our idiocy.)

But I suppose you made your point without that.

[Loud Whispers]

PPE: never mind, LW has more stamina for nonsense than I do apparently.

I don't get why that of all things was the most important thing for scriver to pick up on either. It's like the areas where Israel told civilians to go, and then dropped 2,000 lb bombs on, or the striking of refugee convoys... That all happened in gaza, where there IS an extensive network of hamas tunnels, hamas fighters, hamas weapons.

It still doesn't change just how monumentally fucked up it is to drop laser guided bombs on large groups of civilians???

Like people don't talk about West Bank because they're trying to own the Israeli government with facts and logic. The West Bank is a useful example of testing the consistency of Israeli government rhetoric; if this is just about clearing out Hamas, then why are Palestinians being killed in areas already controlled by the Israeli military? Like tell me you honestly believe there is hamas in this family's land, entirely surrounded by IDF security checkpoints, whilst Israeli settlers point guns in their faces. These settlers aren't afraid for their own safety. They're the fucking danger

Actual edit: you forgot the post in which he said a lot of the children killed in Gaza might be soldiers without evidence too:

Guys, are you seriously trying to counter my words by giving links to protests that were much smaller in scale? OK, I should have been more precise with my wording but do you really think I am stupid enough to think that a city of the size of London with such a diverse population didn't produce some protests for nearly everything?

Now the "It is because the British government is pro-Israeli" part. It is a more valid explanation but the problem with this assumption is that Britain is not the only country with that kind of protests and it doesn't seem to be directly proportional to the level of support to Israel.

___________

Now the children part... Using Al Jazeera as a news source for this war is a questionable idea. They take their numbers directly from the Gazan Health Ministry.

Also, a lot of those children may actually be combatants. We are talking about the side which is not shy of using child soldiers.

And, as I stated it earlier, considering HAMAS human shield tactics, the density of population, and the intensity of the war - Those numbers are very low. It is a pity that innocents die in wars but it is beyond simplistic to call for a ceasefire based only on that.

(looking at how it works in Gaza I feel that Ukraine is idiotic in informational warfare, we should also use estimates we can't prove as proven numbers and "count" victims instantly. I am already seeing tons of "there are more children killed in Gaza in a month than in two years of Ukrainian war" takes and this is a direct result of our idiocy.)

But I suppose you made your point without that.

Jesus, completely skimmed that. But if I ended up posting every hot take it'd hit the character limit -_-

On another note, I am just disgusted the more and more I look at how people reject the evidence, refuse to engage on reasonable grounds and then cry foul when everyone stops taking them seriously when they sound fucking deranged

American jews are fifth columnists
Israeli arabs are fifth columnists
Orthordox jews are fifth columnists for working with the Israeli arab fifth columnists

No one is pure enough. Everyone is a traitor or an enemy. All this just so one dickhead can postpone his bribery, fraud, and breach of trust trial

So what will this war buy with the blood of the all dead? Not an end to the conflict but a period of calm for Israelis that will end again, necessarily, because the underlying conflict still exists. Politically, perhaps, it will guarantee that the febrile rightwing coalition of Netanyahu lasts another year or longer with him at its helm.

And it will end as the last two Gazan conflicts have ended. Egypt, a historic broker of ceasefires in Gaza, will calculate a point when Hamas has been hurt enough and public opinion over its inaction is beginning to become damaging. It will step in with a deal that will see it talk once again, albeit in a limited fashion, to Israel – and at last to regulate a situation it does not want to see spiral out of control.

Then this stupidest of wars will stop.

Israel's tanks will pull back to their bases. The Gazan rocket teams will lick their wounds, rebuild their arsenals in the metal shops and commission new murals for the walls to sanctify their fallen dead in the public memory.
And the civilian dead will stay dead, discarded pieces in a pointless game of chess.

It's amusing that this article from 2014 talking about Netanyahu riding this war with no win state to another year in power and this article from 2023 describing the exact same thing with the exact same person shows how little has changed with Netanyahu at the helm.

Given his weak political position and the widespread expectation that he could be sidelined once the fighting ends in Gaza, they said, Netanyahu has a strong motive to prolong the military offensive.
“He has every incentive to keep the war going, to ensure his political survival,” one U.S. lawmaker who asked not to be named told NBC News.

At the same time, Israel is increasingly isolated internationally as the Palestinian death toll in the conflict has reached 18,700, with 70% of them women and children, according to Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry. The vast majority of the territory's 2.2 million people are displaced, and half of them are estimated to face starvation, according to the U.N.
A current Israeli official said that Netanyahu is pivoting to the right as the domestic political cost of his government’s failure to prevent the Oct. 7 attack looms. The attack, which resulted in the deaths of 1,200 people and the kidnapping of about 240, was the worst terrorist strike in Israeli history.

It cannot be understated just how much damage I think this has done to the human race, Palestinian, Israeli, Arab, Jew, Christian, Muslim Atheist or cosmopolitan. Even from the most ardently indifferent to Palestinian objectives and the most fervently nationalistic Israeli perspective, I cannot help but look at this and think "how does any of this benefit Israel?"

I know how this benefits Netanyahu. He gets to keep his coalition together long enough to survive a few more years out of prison. And Itamar Ben Gvir kept a portrait of the man who committed the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in his living room. Now I know this is controversial, but I don't actually think supporting terrorism is a good thing. So more dead civilians is a good thing for Itamar Ben Gvir. Then there's Bezalel Smotrich, who of course is a racist settler, just the sort of guy you want in charge of your ministry of defence. So when they blow up 300 cultural sites and centres and universities and libraries and the world's oldest churches and mosques and ancient harbours... That helps Smotrich, who is just reminding Palestinians that they can't be genocided, because he rejects the notion they are even a people. Not a people with history, not a people with language or culture. They're just Arabs. Just like Russians saying Ukrainians don't exist.

I like doing this exercise. Like if you put yourself in Putin's shoes and looked at his own invasion. "How does this benefit Russia?" And you would see even by the stated goals of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, he took the multipolar world order he wished for and threw it away in one where Finland and Sweden joined NATO, EU closed ranks under NATO, NATO flooded Ukraine with modern equipment and Russia was enfeebled as the junior partner with China.

So I do the same here. Put myself in the shoes of someone who isn't corrupt like Netanyahu or Putin, and just imagine "where does this all end?" I brought up before Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and Libya, not because of Americo-centric view. But because all of these were wars on terror fought against terror groups with the goal of eradicating those terror groups. And you can kill Osama or Al-Bagdhadi, but those groups still exist today. Why? I joke about "we did it guys, we killed terrorism" because no one who supports looking the other way and asking me to prove all these civilians were Hamas or not asks this obvious question. Is it even good policy?

At least 10,000 children, 20,000 total have died so far. The civilian proportion of deaths is unprecedented, with 61% being civilians. The number of journalists killed has been unparalleled. Hundreds of thousands of people are starving and dying of thirst. Who knows how many will walk away (or won't be able to) maimed and wounded for life. Watching tiktoks of Israelis laughing at them. Watching IDF soldiers ransack toy stores.

And in the ideal world - one where every single Hamas militant, terrorist, trainer and operative is killed.

What do you do in ten years when the survivors grow up?

How many more must be eradicated to kill Hamas 2.0?

Okay so we adopt the Israeli government solution. We just ethnically cleanse Gaza to West Bank. All the Arabs can go to Egypt and Syria and Lebanon because they're not really a people with homes, or history, or family, or rights. Best case scenario, no?

Okay what then when those survivors grow up?

Start launching air strikes on Syria, Iraq and Egypt ad infinitum?

Putting ALL moral concerns aside. Let us not talk about fairness, about whether it is fair to subject one people to control and death to preserve the security of another. Whether it is fair to kill and take the lands of another. Whether it is right to kill civilians for their race, whether it is fine to make them prove they're innocent, whether it's a war crime or a genocide or bleeding heart snowflake children super sad because their dad just got crushed by their house.

Does it work?

It's a fucked up addiction to wars without victory, where every battle just makes the next

Does it work?

Will the untold carnage be forgotten and forgiven by innocent people who did not ever take up a gun in their lives?

The Taliban were once made up of refugee children. Their name literally means "the students."

Does it work?

If all Hamas is killed. If Palestinians are expelled from their homes. If all of Gaza and West Bank and Golan Heights remains forever and ever under Israeli military occupation.

Does it work?

[scriver]

Don't do this pretentious dance as if the one making a disearnest argument when you're the one who won't engage in good faith.

Yes, i daid that. Because of how he responded to me. Your point?

You’re wrong about how you’re interpeting what LW is saying, as previously stated.

I mean, we can go around in circles arguing about it if you want, or you can just read the last three posts or so on a loop for a bit until you feel it’s enough.

PPE: never mind, LW has more stamina for nonsense than I do apparently.

If you can look at what LW just wrote to me, either of the times, and come to the conclusion that I am the one coming with nonsense, well, I guess that speaks for itself.

[hector13]

You’re demanding evidence from LW for a point he never made.

[Strongpoint]

Gish Gallops are fun.... Nah, I am not answering THAT. Except for the most ridiculous part.

The civilian proportion of deaths is unprecedented, with 61% being civilians.

This made me burst into laughter. Yes, 61% of war victims being civilians has never happened in the history of wars. Evil Jews are the first to achieve it.

The funniest part is that the linked article literally says -  Civilian proportion of deaths is higher than the average in all world conflicts in second half of 20th century Higher than average = unprecedented!!!

Can you imagine! Land war in a densely populated area has a higher-than-average number of civilian deaths! Unbelievable! The only rational explanation for that is Israeli being Evil genocidal regime.

[hector13]

That’s why LW is posting like this guys, you’ve both cherry-picked the part you think is the easiest to take apart as an argument, and ignored the rest, citations and all.

This is the second time you’ve also been too much of a coward too outright call someone an anti-Semite, Strongpoint.

It doesn’t matter that they’re Jews, it doesn’t even matter that they’re Israeli, what matters is that civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas are being killed up and down Gaza, in refugee camps and hospitals and IDF-designated safe areas. They’e even being killed outside of Gaza, which is where the supposed war goals are.

You’ve made unsupported ridiculous claim after unsupported ridiculous claim after unsupported ridiculous claim for the last four months, and you have the audacity to suggest LW citing his positions with evidence is worthy of ridicule? Get a grip son.

[Strongpoint]

That’s why LW is posting like this guys, you’ve both cherry-picked the part you think is the easiest to take apart as an argument, and ignored the rest, citations and all.

This is exactly the way to react to Gish Gallop. No one stops LW from presenting a few strong arguments and defending them.

And yep, it is worth ridicule when someone claims something as ridiculous as that there is no precedent of a war with 61%+ civilian casualties. It is not a claim without sufficient evidence, not overstating personal beliefs, not a small mistake, not rejection of some source. It is saying something that contradicts basic knowledge about the topic (modern warfare) just because he needs to fit his narrative of Israel being the worst. It is what creationists and flat-earthers do.

[Loud Whispers]

That’s why LW is posting like this guys, you’ve both cherry-picked the part you think is the easiest to take apart as an argument, and ignored the rest, citations and all.

This is the second time you’ve also been too much of a coward too outright call someone an anti-Semite, Strongpoint.

It doesn’t matter that they’re Jews, it doesn’t even matter that they’re Israeli, what matters is that civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas are being killed up and down Gaza, in refugee camps and hospitals and IDF-designated safe areas. They’e even being killed outside of Gaza, which is where the supposed war goals are.

You’ve made unsupported ridiculous claim after unsupported ridiculous claim after unsupported ridiculous claim for the last four months, and you have the audacity to suggest LW citing his positions with evidence is worthy of ridicule? Get a grip son.

Such is life in the bone zone. It's kinda funny how after all this time Strongpoint still only has one response: you're all just israel haters. Human rights watch, Palestinians, Western academics, Orthodox Jews, Western Jews, Associated Press, the fucking United Nations, everyone's all just Israel haters.

And yep, it is worth ridicule when someone claims something as ridiculous as that there is no precedent of a war with 61%+ civilian casualties.

Yeah Genghis Khan would agree, that boy was good at war.

In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing” for Israeli forces in Gaza. The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world from the second world war to the 1990s, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead, according to Levy.

“The broad conclusion is that extensive killing of civilians not only contributes nothing to Israel’s security, but that it also contains the foundations for further undermining it,” Levy concluded. “The Gazans who will emerge from the ruins of their homes and the loss of their families will seek revenge that no security arrangements will be able to withstand.”

The study confirms an investigation 10 days ago by the Israeli-Palestinian publication +972 Magazine and the Hebrew-language outlet Local Call, which found Israel was deliberately targeting residential blocks to cause mass civilian casualties in the hope people would turn on their Hamas rulers. The figures will make uneasy reading for the Biden administration, which is facing global criticism and isolation for vetoing a UN security council vote for a ceasefire on Friday.

And in other news, one fifth of Israeli soldiers killed in this offensive have been killed by Israeli soldiers.

Never has there been a finer mob of well-disciplined soldiers

Levy: In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing” for Israeli forces in Gaza... The ratio is significantly higher than the average civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world from the second world war to the 1990s, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead, according to Levy. The broad conclusion is that extensive killing of civilians not only contributes nothing to Israel’s security, but that it also contains the foundations for further undermining it,” Levy concluded. “The Gazans who will emerge from the ruins of their homes and the loss of their families will seek revenge that no security arrangements will be able to withstand.”

You: it is worth ridicule when someone claims something as ridiculous as there is no precedent of a war with 61% casualties

This what I mean. You and the other clown throw a whole bunch of unsourced shit that everyone hates Israel without proof, that everyone supports Hamas without proof, expect everyone else to have arugments and citations and evidence but provide nothing but semantic bullshit in return. Like I don't mind but then don't turn around afterwards and say a bloo bloo I tried so hard to be honest but everyone else just hates Israel too much to abide all my sources and arguments I didn't make. Like above, all you did was omit "for Israeli forces in Gaza" and "since WWII" be all "AHA! THE CONTEXT HAS IRREVOCABLY BEEN CHANGED. THERE WERE PROBABLY HIGHER CIVILIAN DEATHS IN THE PARAGUAYAN WAR, THOSE 10,000 DEAD CHILDREN ARE EVEN MORE JUSTIFIED NOW"

Absolute donkey

It is saying something that contradicts basic knowledge about the topic (modern warfare)

You're not an expert in modern warfare when you endorse killing journalists, aid workers, innocent people and refugees. You're just lost

just because he needs to fit his narrative of Israel being the worst. It is what creationists and flat-earthers do.

Proof?

[hector13]

Nobody is saying Israel is the worst, they’re saying what Israel is doing is wholly unreasonable, and providing evidence thereof. Even retired military leaders on the Israeli war council say destroying Hamas isn’t the goal of this conflict.

What he’s doing isn’t Gish gallop because it’s all relevant to the current discussion. All the things he points out are facts, supported by the links he provided. Gosh gallop is when false or irrelevant information is provided as evidence.

Just because you can’t be bothered engaging with it doesn’t make it Gish gallop. Just because you’re happy providing zero evidence of your positions does not mean everybody is, like when you pick one thing out of the “Gish gallop” and provide zero evidence for why it’s wrong.

I don’t understand why you keep trying to insinuate people are anti-Semites when the reason the IDF and Israeli government are being called evil isn’t because they’re Israeli, or because they’re Jewish, it’s because of the horrible things they’re doing to their fellow human beings.

[scriver]

That’s why LW is posting like this guys, you’ve both cherry-picked the part you think is the easiest to take apart as an argument, and ignored the rest, citations and all.

You're having fantasy arguments with people who only exist inside your own head.

[hector13]

That’s why LW is posting like this guys, you’ve both cherry-picked the part you think is the easiest to take apart as an argument, and ignored the rest, citations and all.

You're having fantasy arguments with people who only exist inside your own head.

I would have thought gaslighting to be above you, but I guess I was wrong.

You misinterpreted - willfully or otherwise - an argument LW made(no Hamas in West Bank) and then demanded he provide evidence for that misinterpretation, and then said he had made the argument multiple times previously.

When LW goes back and clarifies every time he brought it up - presumably, I’m not the one making the accusation so I’m not going to check the completion percentage - you then said he was the one bringing nonsense to the thread when I expressed support.

It’s a pretty clear-cut case of sealioning, really.

More fool me really since I’m the one falling for it.

[pr1mezer0]

It's hard to believe it's as low as 61% civilians, considering 70% of casualties are women and children. Even if all men are hamas.
It would have been better for everyone if the idf after oct 7 went into gaza and summararily shot 300 hamas militants and 900 women and children (maybe making the militants shoot half of these civilians), they would keep their current proportions and killed <5% of the total they have so far killed. But it would be a war crime.
But if they wanted to respond as a civilized nation, they would have:
1) bolstered security
2) freed the hostages
And 3) charged hamas for war crimes in the UN ICJ

[Loud Whispers]

Nobody is saying Israel is the worst, they’re saying what Israel is doing is wholly unreasonable, and providing evidence thereof. Even retired military leaders on the Israeli war council say destroying Hamas isn’t the goal of this conflict.

Israeli intelligence ministry drafted a concept paper proposing forcing Palestinians into refugee camps in North Sinai, then taking control of the Egyptian/Gaza border so Palestinians couldn't return. Netanyahu said this wasn't a government plan then told the Egyptians he wanted to take control of the Egyptian/Gaza border.

In a press conference, he told the press that he intended to have permanent "security control" of all Israel, West Bank and Gaza. Then on social media said he had no intention of permanently occupying Gaza.

Meanwhile the Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi criticised Netanyahu for allegedly giving him no actual defined war aims, leaving him with the job of leading a military operation without knowing what it is he is trying to achieve. Defence analyst Amos Harel, suggested that the lack of war aims was due to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu only caring about trying to secure his political future and preparing for the upcoming elections.

This is the same dickhead who supported Hamas and then diverted Israel's security and intelligence services away from tracking Hamas towards protecting settlers in West Bank.

What he’s doing isn’t Gish gallop because it’s all relevant to the current discussion. All the things he points out are facts, supported by the links he provided. Gosh gallop is when false or irrelevant information is provided as evidence.

Just because you can’t be bothered engaging with it doesn’t make it Gish gallop. Just because you’re happy providing zero evidence of your positions does not mean everybody is, like when you pick one thing out of the “Gish gallop” and provide zero evidence for why it’s wrong.

I don’t understand why you keep trying to insinuate people are anti-Semites when the reason the IDF and Israeli government are being called evil isn’t because they’re Israeli, or because they’re Jewish, it’s because of the horrible things they’re doing to their fellow human beings.

And it's easy too. Don't need to justify shit if you just act like a Taylor Swift fan. "Nah they don't dislike her songs, they just jealous"

Like shit man, we all got post histories on this forum. Strongpoint trying to tell me I'm Hamas too, everyone Hamassing a hamassanal of hamass destruction, spinning narratives to snare innocent racial supremacy parties trying to build an ethnostate and get away with murder. He did the same shit when the London protests were going on, saying the protestors were all fake Jews like orthodox or jihadis, all without proof, then when I post proof of muslims and jews protesting together in solidarity it's all "nah nah that's an isolated incident" of... 100,000 people.

And fuuuuuuck man. I didn't go to this protest. I was busy working. The last time I thought about Israel was when I ran the bay12 eurovision thread and you can search for my anti-Israel eurovision narrative, but you won't find one. You'll only find a joke about "how did Australia sneak into eurovision." If I am appalled by the SASR or the SAS just executing captive civilians, or sniping dudes in their sleep, and call them out on their fucking war crimes, do I hate Britain and Australia? Am I all about that anti-Anglo narrative?

Fuck. What is true and right is just what is true and right. Eurovision got nothing to do with it. And when Israel is next on eurovision, and they got a good song, I'll vote for them again. What I'm not going to do is vote for a British MP who supports mindlessly blowing up children just to appease racial supremacists

Like maybe they have a hard time separating "people don't like Israeli government massacring innocent people" with "people don't like Israel." Because they cannot tell the difference between a child and a soldier, or right and wrong, or Palestinian and Jihadi. And in the case of the IDF, they also can't seem to tell the difference between an Israeli or an Arab.

Just think - the Israelis and Arabs look so alike, and sound so alike, that the IDF has killed unarmed Israelis, because they mistook them for unarmed Palestinians. This is that peak clown world shit. That real honk honk sauce

So then we get the minister of national security, who idolises actual terrorists like Goldstein and Kahane, heading the Jewish Power Party, telling Israelis that Jewish rights supercede Arab rights. Then you get the leader of the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism and minister of defence who himself lives on an illegal west bank settlement, agreeing 100%. Sorry Muhammad. Then you get people like the IDF Chief Rabbi saying it's okay to rape gentile women in war "but only hypothetically speaking" and you just got to think to yourself, could Netanyahu really find no one else to make his government?

And like... I can't love that. I can't even look the other way from that. This shit is repulsive and fucking ugly and immoral and just evil. Hell isn't a place sinners go to when we die, it's a place we make now for the living

A recent opinion poll published in the Times showed that Joe Biden's handling of the Gaza war has been met with solid disapproval among Americans, particularly younger Democrats. The poll reported that 57 percent of voters exhibited dissatisfaction with Biden's approach, and 33 percent supported it, while among younger voters, almost three-quarters expressed dissatisfaction with Biden's approach to the war.

It's going to come way too late for the current generation of Palestinians, but when the boomers die, that 57% is gonna go way up if <75% of youngsters kinda hate the war crimes colonise grindset

And like fuck man. I've grown up my whole life people telling me I don't belong here, I don't belong there. But then I also found community. This post from way back, I meant it, every word:

When I went to school, we had people from everywhere, man. Some of my friends, right? One of them, his grandfather was French. The other's was Algerian. Their grandfathers were not just enemies - they were vicious enemies. And when they saw their grandkids were best friends they broke down in tears and became friends too. We had jewish students too of every stripe; secular, diaspora, sephardi, mizrahi, ashkenazi, jews who observed diligently and jews who ate bacon, and they were all unique people with their own voices and opinions. Real human beans. If you asked them what they thought about this whole shit each of them would have something different to say. And we also had palestinians - who still have, or maybe no longer given recent events, had family in Palestine & Israel. So I'm laughing when I read all this shit about how Palestinians need to be sent to re-education camps or cleansed from the earth like they are some kind of race of rabid zombies; this is just a repeat of the cleaning of native Americans, and how they were portrayed as evolutionary degenerates and scalping barbarians even as they were cleansed from their land.

My best friend invited me to his bar-mitzvah, I was one of only three gentiles there, and it was fucking unforgettable being spun around in a wild circle by some tall Jewish uncle with the sick hair and wild flair. And there were these debate clubs - every time I was usually the sole audience member, because they gave all this free food and drinks. There were only three times there was a big audience. Once, it was the girls vs boys. The girls had to argue women had to argue against gender equality laws, the boys had to argue pro gender equality laws.

The second was something to do with American elections where people pretended to be Presidential candidates, and the third was "should Israel be disarmed of nuclear weapons?" Now my school was about 5% arab and 25% jewish, and you had a real BRICs mix. My old headmaster once made a colossal gaffa "we are the most diverse school in all of London. And yet we still succeed." He did not mean to add the "yet" and we gave him a standing ovation for it. So you got a whole load of boys showing up for this debate, because we knew it was gonna be spicy. Me, my Ukrainian friend, my Iranian friend and my Sri Lankan friend all took our seats. The debate host dude announces the topic of debate: "should Israel be disarmed?"

The front row of like 8 seats were all held by students wearing their kippahs, and they nodded in synchronised unison like the blues brothers "no," and in the total silence of the room it was just perfect. Whole hall burst out fucking laughing as the debate host failed to keep a straight face. And this what I mean, even the single Palestinian kid in my Chemistry class could be best friends with two Israelis talking about their summers in Israel, without holding a chip on his shoulder about the fact that he and his whole family lost everything to the Israeli gov. Cos again, why would he? His m8s got nothing to do with what happened to him. The only comment I ever heard him make about the whole thing was one day, this Palestinian kid is sitting next to two Israeli-Britons, and they didn't know each other were born in Israel. So they start going all the whole "oh where were you born" "oh no way" and the Palestinian kid just blurts "yeah, where in PALESTINE were you born?" and the entire chemistry class goes APE wild. That shit was banter

And again, end of the day those three were bros. You couldn't fuck that fraternity up

At University, I read Jewish literature and got accursed by the James Joyce's Ulysses. Not because of the zionism in Ulysses, but because I'll never be able to remove the mental image of the main character sitting in the bathtub thinking about how his floating pube haired cock looks like a sea anemone or some shit lmao

Without going into so much detail I doxx myself, my mentor, whom I would fucking die for, one of the best guys in the entire world, is a british jew who collected Eldar 40k minis since the 1990s. Which admittedly he has little to nothing to do with Israel whatsoever, but the insinuation is "Israel doesn't have legit critics. It has haters, who hate Israel becuz it's Jewish."

It's all mega skegness, if the divide between understanding is so wide that "I WANT THE KILLING TO STOP. I WANT THE KILLING TO STOP. I WANT THE KILLING TO STOP" is interpreted as "you just want to kill us."

I once shitposted with a guy who said he was an orthodox Christian whose family lost everything in Palestine, moving to the USA as refugees. Someone asked him if his family had supported Hamas, and he said nah, his family lost their homes before Hamas existed, and they were christians not muslims. Another guy said "look you didn't lose your home, it was stolen" and he said something very profound.
What he actually said was:

Diego: yes peace, but your family not lost their home, they have stolen it

seron: We all have stolen from God and our neighbor, everything that we have belongs to Him. You're just a sojourner in this world nothing more. We should try to act like it more.

Asasssssin: Have you tried NOT to attack the Israelis so as not to lose your home?

seron: [I cut out a lot here detailing his family background] Also please read my response after. All of this is meaningless, just pray (*3*) I love you. BTW we are one big family. Last question, do you like anime?

Which I think you could paraphrase well as a new prayer for a new age:

"I pray not for vengeance nor for forgiveness. I pray only that mercy be given to those who have taken from me. We are all just guests in this transient world loaned to us by the creator. Do you like anime?"

If you still think I hate people who support rape, genocide and slaughter civilians = frothing fury fired at Israel sure go for it. But you have never had any evidence, and you never will find any. I just hope you find a good anime and chill the fuck out instead of being a series of team killing fucktards for the rest of your lives. Also that my government stops supporting the slaughter of civilians lol, that's also a tiny objective of mine. It kinda ruins my day when people I pay taxes to help fucking obliterate a building full of people, and then just keeps doing it again and again. Like fuck man, ISIS is bad for blowing up archaeological sites, but then Israel just does it again and again to some of the oldest religious buildings in the world. I like to go online and lol @ evangelicals cos I always just ask them the simple shit like "does Jesus want you to kill Christians" or "does Jesus want you to blow up his oldest churches"

The Israel Defense Forces' detonation of more than 300 mines planted at Israa University in Gaza on Wednesday provided the latest evidence that Israel's objective in its bombardment of the enclave is not self-defense, rights advocates said.
"This is not self-defense," said Chris Hazzard, an Irish member of the United Kingdom's Parliament. "This is not counter-insurgency. This is ethnic-cleansing."

The International Middle East Media Center (IMEMC) called the destruction of Israa University Israel's latest attempt to carry out a "cultural genocide" along with the slaughter of at least 24,620 people in just over three months—people who Israeli officials have claimed are legitimate military targets despite the fact that roughly half of those killed have been children.

The wiping out of cultural landmarks was included in South Africa's International Court of Justice case accusing Israel of genocidal acts in Gaza last week, with the complaint noting that "Israel has damaged and destroyed numerous centers of Palestinian learning and culture," including libraries, one of the world's oldest Christian monasteries, and the Great Omari Mosque, where an ancient collection of manuscripts was kept before the building was destroyed in an airstrike last month.

"The crime of targeting and destroying archaeological sites should spur the world and UNESCO into action to preserve this great civilizational and cultural heritage," Gaza's Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities said after the mosque was bombed.
Now, international relations professor Nicola Perugini of the University of Edinburgh said, "all the universities in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed."

The thing I find morbidly hilarious is the way Israel's destruction of historical artifacts and historical sites just got increasingly more... Implausible... Over time.

Running a bulldozer over an iron-age archaeological site? Nebuchadnezzar would be disappointed. Maybe it was an isolated case though... 200 out of 325 registered sites destroyed. Probably would have been safer to not register those sites with the Israeli government. The loss of Pheonician and Roman artifacts... Fucking heart breaking. 150 years of central archives, there's nothing left now. With their sniper killing a mother and a child and shooting and injuring 7 others who tried to save the girls or escape the church. Naturally, IDF asked the church to prove they didn't have rocket launchers??? When they can see clearly the girl and her mother didn't have rocket launchers??? The bombing of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem and the Episcopal Church of Jerusalem hospital run by the Anglicans and shooting at disabled people hiding in churches with direct fire from tanks... Bombing the third oldest church in the world sheltering 5,00 refugees, killing 150-200 people and partially destroying the historic religious site... To destroying the oldest mosque in Gaza, which used to be a Byzantine church, which was itself built atop a temple dedicated to fucking Dagon the site was that old.

And then you just get shit where the IDF straight up turned a University into their own military HQ, used it as a military base for the IDF, planted 315 mines in it and then blew it up after taking all of its museum relics. Because Hamas... Used it... In the 70 days... The IDF used it as a barracks and HQ...

It's just fucked man. "The United Nations' Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (Ocha) publishes regular bulletins on the impact of the war, and they make for grim reading.

Its latest updates say that at least 60% of homes or housing units in Gaza have been "destroyed or damaged". Nine in every 10 schools have suffered "significant damage". Hospitals, public buildings and electricity networks have also been hit."

Oops I did it again, 90% hit rate on schools, got lost in the sauce, but it's all militarily necessary because Hamas were there even in the places we were there or Hamas weren't because as we all know, you can blow up an associated press building full of international journalists all whom say there was no Hamas in there with them and you can just call them all Israel-hating liars with no evidence and everyone should just not and send another billion dollar weapons package to Israel. Oh wait sorry that wasn't this war, that was one war ago in 2021. Shit man, so fucking hard to keep track of which building is getting blown up for no reason

Why the Global South Supports Pretoria’s ICJ Genocide Case
Namibia and Bangladesh are the most vocal of many countries backing South Africa’s legal challenge to Israel.

Namibia has issued a statement in support of South Africa’s genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), including a scathing criticism of Germany’s decision to intervene in defense of Israel.

Namibian President Hage Geingob said on Saturday that Germany could not “morally express commitment to the United Nations Convention against genocide, including atonement for the genocide in Namibia, whilst supporting the equivalent of a holocaust and genocide in Gaza.” Berlin has not responded yet.

The German government said on Jan. 12 that the accusation of genocide against Israel had “no basis” and amounted to a “political instrumentalization” of the convention. “In view of Germany’s history and the crime against humanity of the [Holocaust], the Federal Government sees itself as particularly committed to the Convention against Genocide,” it said.

The Namibian presidency said in response that “no peace-loving human being can ignore the carnage waged against Palestinians in Gaza” and slammed Germany’s “inability to draw lessons from its horrific history.”

About 80 percent of the Herero population and 50 percent of the Nama population in German South West Africa, now Namibia, were killed between 1904 and 1908 after German soldiers drove them into the desert and sealed off watering holes to stop survivors from returning. The majority died in  concentration camps that were a precursor to the methods used in the Holocaust.

In what historians describe as the first genocide of the 20th century, Namibians resisting colonization were placed in concentration camps and a death camp known as Shark Island—a prototype for Auschwitz—in which Indigenous people and children born from the rape of imprisoned women by German soldiers were gruesomely experimented on to prove racial inferiority. About 65,000 Herero and 10,000 Nama were massacred. The severed heads of Namibian prisoners were sent back to Germany for research, and native Africans were put on display in human zoos. Hermann Wilhelm Göring, the son of the colony’s governor, Heinrich Göring, became one of Adolf Hitler’s most notorious military leaders.

Beyond Africa, Bangladesh—another nation born amid genocidal violence—said in a statement released Sunday that it would intervene as a third party in defense of South Africa’s case. It is the only nation so far to announce it will do so. Bangladesh’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said it “stands in support of South Africa’s application” against Israel’s “blatant disregard for and violation of international law” and “welcomes the opportunity to file a declaration of intervention in the proceedings in due course.”

The fact that South Africa has brought the case—and that the United States has reflexively opposed it—has further diminished U.S. credibility among Africans and shattered the notion that Washington stands for a rules-based order. Many nations in the so-called global south perceive blatant hypocrisy in Europe and the United States’ condemnation of an illegal occupation in Ukraine while continuing to staunchly back Israel despite the rising death toll in Gaza and settler violence in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. “When you are on the wrong side of the U.N. secretary-general … you are dismantling your house with the very tools that built it,” wrote Nesrine Malik in the Guardian.

South Africa has asked the ICJ to take provisional emergency measures to immediately suspend Israel’s military operations in Gaza and “take all reasonable measures” to prevent genocide. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has remained defiant. “No one will stop us, not The Hague, not the [Iranian-led] axis of evil and not anyone else,” he said Saturday.

Why does Netanyahu speak like a fucking villain caricature lmao, I'm laughing outside but crying inside