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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 1492543 times)

Sowelu

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2205 on: November 22, 2010, 09:48:06 am »

You could always make the various POWERs have preferences for the shinies.  That way, people would need them to appease said powers!
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2206 on: November 22, 2010, 09:55:11 am »

...and coins.

at the current ore/coin smelting exchange rate, coins will drive up demand to the seven highs.
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Jiri Petru

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2207 on: November 22, 2010, 11:11:48 am »

I just hope the values will be established through several layers, eg. there would be a generic value of LEATHER, an relative to that value the game would substract values of specific leather types, instead of counting each leather type separately without a generic LEATHER value. If things were tracked separately, it could lead to oddities like warthog leather having the value of platinum, just because there's no civilisation yet that has an access to warthogs. On the contrary, if demand for generic LEATHER is simulated, and the market is quite satiated then warthog leather would still be more expensive when compared to other leather types, but would still be cheap in comparison with rare metals.

The layers could be several, like CLOTHING, relative to that SILK, CLOTH, LEATHER, relative to those their subtypes such as giant spider silk/normal spider silk; rope reed cloth/pig tail cloth, etc.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2208 on: November 22, 2010, 11:22:14 am »

If things were tracked separately, it could lead to oddities like warthog leather having the value of platinum, just because there's no civilisation yet that has an access to warthogs.

Scarcity isn't the sole determinant of value.  If warthog leather were not only rare but extremely beautiful or tough or whatever, it might make sense for it to have the value of platinum.  It could be valued for its leatheriness as well, but I don't see a reason for that to be an overriding factor.

Also, there's definitely a market for outlandishly expensive leather.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 11:29:09 am by Footkerchief »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2209 on: November 22, 2010, 11:29:33 am »

You overestimate the sense of the wealthy. If warthog leather is rare enough, being able to flaunt a pair of *warthog leather high boots* would be a sufficient indicator of wealth that the value would go up.
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BackgroundGuy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2210 on: November 22, 2010, 03:26:55 pm »

Toady, as 31.19 will be the Caravan Arc, does that mean we'll get boats too? 
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Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2211 on: November 22, 2010, 03:58:57 pm »

The entire caravan arc isn't coming in one release, so I doubt they'll go in the very next version, but I suppose it's possible (so civs seperated by ocean on the "Island" worlds can trade with each other). In any case, the first incarnation of boats and ports will almost certainly be, as the devlist suggest, abstracted as delayed teleportation to begin with.
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BackgroundGuy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2212 on: November 22, 2010, 04:04:19 pm »

Considering that until now, the caravan arc has been one big abstraction, I think I could live with that.  Abstact teleportation is still worlds better than having to swim across the ocean by hand or embarking on an island with no other civs.
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madjoe5

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2213 on: November 22, 2010, 04:41:32 pm »

Oh God, I really want boats. I hope that they allow for island-bound civs to both trade and invade.I always feel bad scrapping an otherwise perfect world gen because the only goblins started out on an island. Although I was excited that world gen could be made into either an island/continent or a simple region, Island worlds often result in the aforementioned "stranded" civs; and I force myself to gen a region. Oh that reminds me...

Will we ever be able to choose between Region and Island in the simplified "Create New World Now!" parameters?Currently, if you wanted to gen a region; one must go into the "Advanced Parameters." This is kind of a pain, since you also have to manually change the otherwise simplified parameters. Changing even simple things like history lenght is really confusing for players unaccustomed to world gen stuff (not to mention natural savagery, civ and site numbers).

It seems pretty basic to me at least.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 06:42:39 pm by madjoe5 »
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Dante

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2214 on: November 22, 2010, 06:25:12 pm »

Last I heard, Toady wasn't going to do boats or multi-tile creatures until the basic work for siege weapons was done.

On the other hand, giving that wagons are borked at the moment, maybe it will indeed get some attention for the caravan stuff.

Quatch

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2215 on: November 22, 2010, 06:41:54 pm »

If you cared enough about that world with the island, you'd bridge it in fortress mode. Even if it meant pumping lava across in adv. mode.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2216 on: November 22, 2010, 06:42:52 pm »

Toady, as 31.19 will be the Caravan Arc, does that mean we'll get boats too?

It's not going to be the entire thing (or anything close), just preliminary steps.
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madjoe5

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2217 on: November 22, 2010, 06:48:39 pm »

If you cared enough about that world with the island, you'd bridge it in fortress mode. Even if it meant pumping lava across in adv. mode.

Not sure if your joking, but thats pretty much impossible. Some islands are several regional squares away (ie ridiculously large local distances in fortmode).

Hmm, I wonder:

1) Start with a 16x16 coastal embark
2) floor over the water/ocean part
3) abandon
4) use like a "embark anywhere" tool and go right next to the floored area, and extend it
5) Repeat until there is a suitable floor-bridge to an island

Will that island be considered part of the mainland now, as in you'd get migrants/invasions there? Might try that sometime...

Quatch

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2218 on: November 22, 2010, 07:32:58 pm »

Not joking. While I am not crazy enough to have done so, other people here are, and have. Not sure anyone's combined lava pump + bridge building to build a new embarkable region, but its just an extension of the basic concept.

Yes, after you bridge it, it is considered connected.

bridge: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35977.msg563508#msg563508

magma pump: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=24413.msg274143#msg274143

There may be older examples of those two concepts.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 07:38:22 pm by Quatch »
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Misterstone

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2219 on: November 22, 2010, 09:02:15 pm »

I think that at the very least the "moveable fortress" features need to be in, in order for boats to exist as substantial map features rather than abstracted stuff.  So if that's not going to get done in this arc, you'll probably have to wait a bit.
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