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Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission  (Read 1448828 times)

Skyrunner

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3315 on: December 25, 2012, 01:48:55 am »

The obvious answer is "use more engines", then. My workhorse launcher uses 12 Mainsail engines that are crossfed so that they shed 8 of them in orbit. It can pretty much launch anything into orbit, though going anywhere else is a bit hard.
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sneakey pete

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3316 on: December 25, 2012, 01:58:08 am »

Scrap the poodle engine and replace it with one of the smaller once. same thrust, less weight.

Also consider scrapping the mainsail's and replacing them with multiple engines per tank, i've heard that that is rather more stable. you use the small struts on the bottom to act as attachment points for the engines.

edit: also, i just discovered you can click and drag the manevour node point along your orbit. Very handy for lining up intercepts. get close, then drag it until it becomes zero.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:25:24 am by sneakey pete »
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GalenEvil

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3317 on: December 25, 2012, 02:13:09 am »

also, if you have radial engines that use mainsails, lock the radial engines' gimbals since mainsails ARE unstable unless they are directly underneath the center of mass. I use an asparagus design with 4 mainsails on the center and 6 radials each with only one.

Just got my first docking completed! My RCS fuel fell off for some reason halfway through the gravity turn so I had to do it all with just the radial engines (6x small and 1x large radial per fuel tank) and managed to get docked by very very slowly lining up and pulsing towards the station hub :) Now, I have to get the lander back to kerbin since it has a large enough footprint to make docking anything else pretty useless hehe.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3318 on: December 25, 2012, 02:35:02 am »

I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.
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Rose

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3319 on: December 25, 2012, 02:39:12 am »

I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.

Actually, no, the mainsails and the smaller engines have the same thrust/weight ratio.
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sneakey pete

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3320 on: December 25, 2012, 02:54:08 am »

My Jool mission is slowly getting together

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fuel tanks are added, space plane is docked. I need to add a lander, send up 2 flights of crew, and attach some probes to the small docking ports. (i'm thinking... one to send into jool proper, and one to detach halfway there and try to do a gravity assist of jool to head to the outer system). And of course fill what's there with fuel.

Unfortunately, i've run into some issues due to the fact that i had the brilliant idea to add a gazillion ladders to the craft. Looks good... lags bad. The lag in turn makes the SAS and RCS not work, blowing all the RCS fuel rather quickly, which is bad.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3321 on: December 25, 2012, 02:55:12 am »

I think multiple smaller engines per tank is worse for the lifting stage, since they are heavier for less thrust.

Actually, no, the mainsails and the smaller engines have the same thrust/weight ratio.
How so? The Mainsail is the lifting engine, its ridiculous TWR is its entire purpose in existence. Regular engines give you, on average, 200KN thrust for 1.25 tons of mass, for a total TWR of around 16.3. The Mainsail gives you 1500KN thrust for 6 tons of mass, for a TWR of 25.5, and that's not taking mounting space into account, because you can't fit an equivalent amount of smaller engines in the same space a Mainsail occupies.

Now, a cluster of smaller engines is more efficient, that's true, but unless you literally cover the whole underside of your rocket with engines, you will end up losing fuel to fighting gravity on the way up, because you'll accelerate too slow.
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Rose

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3322 on: December 25, 2012, 05:21:57 am »

Holy shit do you run out of mono fuel fast in the latest version.
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andrea

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3323 on: December 25, 2012, 05:26:55 am »

keep in mind that any design that was launched before upgrade still has the old capacity of RCS fuel tanks. But the system is balanced for newfuel tanks which are much bigger.if you are resuming a fight from an old version, you will run out much earlier than you should.
that said, it does drain much faster.

@sneakey pete
such a pity that your design lags due to lag :/ next time , you could try using some of those long ladders instead.
Meanwhile, you could try lowering your physics delta time per frame. I think that slows everything down, but reduces lag.

sneakey pete

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3324 on: December 25, 2012, 06:44:23 am »

well, I dumped my interplanetary transfer ship into the ocean, time to start again. Savings all my designs really pays off.

edit: and about 167 ladders and a few other unnecessary parts gone. Meaning the core is down to 104 parts from 271. should make physics nicer.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 06:55:55 am by sneakey pete »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3325 on: December 25, 2012, 08:43:58 am »

In order to bring fuel and lander/science modules up to Celestia's Guidance in orbit, a heavy lifting vehicle, Luna's Splendour, is being designed.

Spoiler: Yes, it's ridiculous (click to show/hide)
I still can't believe this thing makes it off the launchpad. It made it into orbit a total of one time, without payload. Right now I'm solving some structural failure issues.
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Fikes

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3326 on: December 25, 2012, 11:09:49 am »

I can't seem to get my satellite core into orbit >_>

No pics because KSP is on a different computer, but the core itself is an unmanned command module, a large tank of RCS fuel, ASAS, one of those hitchhiker modules, two solar panels, batteries, a half-sized fuel tank, one of those multi-directional docking ports, and a poodle(?) engine. Tests with just the core have shown that it can get off the ground on it's own and get to a respectable height before running out of fuel.

Problems arise, however, when I attempt to attach it to a larger rocket. I have previously managed to get debris and a manned return vehicle in a stable orbit with just a single Mainsail engine and no RCS needed. Now, however, I struggle to get the core up even to 80km. I have to turn RCS on in conjunction with the ASAS just to keep the craft stable, and the core itself needs to burn all onboard fuel just getting a periapsis of 20km or so. And yes, I am attempting gravity turns and such, though I often lose control.

I haven't even attempted docking yet. I can launch simple rockets into orbit or even to Mun all day long, but it seems like every attempt to launch a satellite or something is doomed to failure.

First of all I always break my ships down into payload, orbit, lifter, and booster stages.

Lets say you want to drop your payload in a 120km circular orbit,  the combined forces of the booster, lifter and orbit stages would have to get you to 120km going 2214m/s. Let's just say, for the sake of simplicity, that your orbit stage can only give you 214m/s and 20km. That means your lifter and bosster stages have to give you 100km and 2000 m/s. If your lifter stage only provies 50km and 1000m/s your boster stage has to provide the same. Obviously an over simplication, but I think it helps to visualize. Your can't use any of your orbit fuel unit you reach X altitude and X speed. The whole point of the lifter and booster is to get you to that X altitude and X speed.

In your case the payload stage and orbit stage are kind of the same, since you won't be disconnecting your engine from the payload. Anyways, on to the example.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3327 on: December 25, 2012, 12:33:32 pm »

Hint: use jet engines to get into the upper atmosphere before beginning to use liquid engines higher up. It really helps.

Sirus

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3328 on: December 25, 2012, 02:10:19 pm »

I kinda glazed over most of that explanation (especially since I have no desire to use MechJeb and basically just wing my flights) -- but what is the point of the yellow multi point connecter if you can't dock with it?!
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Fikes

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3329 on: December 25, 2012, 02:14:17 pm »

I kinda glazed over most of that explanation (especially since I have no desire to use MechJeb and basically just wing my flights) -- but what is the point of the yellow multi point connecter if you can't dock with it?!

Wow. Why bother asking a question if you completely ignore the answer? I only used MechJeb to show thrust to weight. There are a lot of features that Mechjeb provides that don't involve it flying for you.

Hopefully that helped someone, because I put some time into.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:16:38 pm by Fikes »
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