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[Rowanas]

Those trees... they're so beautiful! Can you walk on all the tiles save the centre one, and if you can, how do you represent what you can see underneath the treecover?

[Dutchling]

Those trees... they're so beautiful!

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Those are some very fancy lookin' trees. I like it.

Whoa! I wasn't expecting anything bigger than a few trees having 2x2 squares with the same tile. It looks awesome.

I just thought of something. Can we climb on trees and take out the incoming enemy with out bow? Forests could make ambushes easier.

Those trees... they're so beautiful! Can you walk on all the tiles save the centre one, and if you can, how do you represent what you can see underneath the treecover?

Thanks all! @ Leatra, yes, I'll definitely let you climb trees. Maybe for this release, but if I don't have time, then certainly 1.0.0. @ Rowanas, indeed so, the centre is blocked. When you walk under, your character inverts and shows a background of the tree leaf colour, and foreground black. It's the only context (I think) where you will be walking under something, and it looks/works nicely.

Would there be a way to start a brush fire in order to halt/disrupt an enemy advancement through trees?
Of course, there's the chance it'd burn towards you also if there was proper kindling. Maybe if wind is ever a factor that'd change smoke concealment and fire spread (as well as ranged accuracy, but that's a different topic).

And will there be the possibility for prolonged sieges, cutting off cities from supplies and the like, and allowing them to slowly decay from within? That would be one of the times where a waiting mechanic might be nice. Say you choose to specify how many weeks/hours/days to stay in one location, though enemy action would interrupt it.

Throwing out brain thoughts again.

Funny, that's the exact same thing a flatmate asked me - FIRE?!?! Why yes. Fire could end up looking absolutely wonderful, I think. I'm debating whether I want wind to be a factor, in the end I think I will implement wind. Ranged accuracy is the reason I'm reluctant to at the moment - it could either be something interesting to take account of, or a massive pain in the backside for anyone using ranged weapons.

Good point on sieges - that's another reason to have a waiting mechanic. It increasingly seems that I will need something like that. I do intend to implement counters for resources cities get, so as they run out of water, food etc, then they will become less inclined to fight, or become weaker, or there might be a chance of a bunch of citizens trying to open the gates, let the attacker in and end the siege, etc! Excellent brain thoughts. Keep them coming. Once history generation exists, I'm going to create temples/tombs/ruins/caves and the like first before I move onto cities, because cities will connect to *so* many other things...

MEANWHILE, here's a more updated screenshot. Again, night, taiga, etc, but with more of the UI there too. Stm is stamina, Wpr is your willpower (which you dip into and get a big combat boost from when you run out of stamina) and Exh is your exhaustion bar (which you want to avoid - it kicks in if both Stm+Wpr are gone, and massively weakens you for its duration until you start to recover).

[Leatra]

Brilliant idea to add three stages for stamina

I assume lost stamina is easier to recover than exhaustion. Do all of these recover by time or, for example, do you have to sleep to recover exhaustion or something?

[Neonivek]

Brilliant idea to add three stages for stamina

I assume lost stamina is easier to recover than exhaustion. Do all of these recover by time or, for example, do you have to sleep to recover exhaustion or something?

Interesting. I've seen games split it two ways usually for slumber and fatigue.

But this is the first one that actually seperated tired versus fatigued versus broken. Actually the only one I seen that seperated tired and Fatigued (there is a difference)

[EnigmaticHat]

Stm is stamina, Wpr is your willpower (which you dip into and get a big combat boost from when you run out of stamina) and Exh is your exhaustion bar (which you want to avoid - it kicks in if both Stm+Wpr are gone, and massively weakens you for its duration until you start to recover).

So if I'm reading this right, combat effectiveness over time goes like this: normal (start of fight)> better (run out of Stm)> worse (run out of Wpr).  If this is the case, I'm not sure I agree with that setup.  Maybe its supposed to represent adrenaline or something, but it doesn't make sense from a game perspective to reward the player for running out of stamina.  Maybe characters with high willpower could use it to gain combat bonuses even if they didn't run out of stamina?  You could call it "focusing" or something.

[Neonivek]

Well the way I see it...

You could run out of Exhaustion before Stamina if you are doing intensive light work (just like real life).

Stamina representing the difference between being fine and tired. Exhaustion representing the difference between being fine and fatigued

The difference between tired and fatigued?

Well tired is being out of energy, you simply don't have any extra energy to give. Fatigue is strain, you can have energy but you cannot make your muscles give out the same input.

Willpower of course represents your mental stress.

Of course I am prepared to be wrong.

Though honestly I'd think it would almost be better as a: Stamina/Exhaustion, Fatigue, and Stress bars.

[Devling]

Random thought of the day:
How about there is different stages of sneaking?
Instead of, invisible, and "Everyone within the entire country now knows your name, face, criminal record, and favorite type of cat."
Maybe, invisible, sighted, discovered?
Something inbetween, where a guard might have seen you, but doesn't know you or your intentions?
So, if your sneaking through the streets trying to hid from guards, and a merchant sees you, he might find you suspicious and keep an eye on you, but won't attack you or anything.
But if a guard on night patrol spotted you sneaking about, he would call for back up or try to apprehend you or something.

[Sharp]

Just as long as there isn't any silly "You have been detected message" im happy. What would really be fun is sneaking up on sneakers and then stabbing!

What would really be awesome is if you can use disguises and blend into crowds hitman/assassins creed style, like if one army has armour which is decorated with crests (house, army, civ, etc...) you can use it to pretend you are part of an army to then assassinate the leader before the battle and just walk away cool as a cucumber.

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Brilliant idea to add three stages for stamina

I assume lost stamina is easier to recover than exhaustion. Do all of these recover by time or, for example, do you have to sleep to recover exhaustion or something?

Interesting. I've seen games split it two ways usually for slumber and fatigue.

But this is the first one that actually seperated tired versus fatigued versus broken. Actually the only one I seen that seperated tired and Fatigued (there is a difference)

So if I'm reading this right, combat effectiveness over time goes like this: normal (start of fight)> better (run out of Stm)> worse (run out of Wpr).  If this is the case, I'm not sure I agree with that setup.  Maybe its supposed to represent adrenaline or something, but it doesn't make sense from a game perspective to reward the player for running out of stamina.  Maybe characters with high willpower could use it to gain combat bonuses even if they didn't run out of stamina?  You could call it "focusing" or something.

Well the way I see it...

You could run out of Exhaustion before Stamina if you are doing intensive light work (just like real life).

Stamina representing the difference between being fine and tired. Exhaustion representing the difference between being fine and fatigued

The difference between tired and fatigued?

Well tired is being out of energy, you simply don't have any extra energy to give. Fatigue is strain, you can have energy but you cannot make your muscles give out the same input.

Willpower of course represents your mental stress.

Of course I am prepared to be wrong.

Though honestly I'd think it would almost be better as a: Stamina/Exhaustion, Fatigue, and Stress bars.

Well, the way I currently have it thought out is this. I should add, given that combat won't fully feature for some time, this is entirely open to change! This was just my initial idea, and I'll explain my rationale a bit.

Assuming all bars are full, you first use your stamina for performing actions. If you stop performing stamina-using actions for a period, your stamina will then recharge. If you use up all your stamina, you dip into your willpower bar - the same actions that take up stamina take up 'willpower stamina', as it were. This gives you a big boost, but you churn through it quickly, and you run the risk of dipping into exhaustion. When you're into exhaustion, the exhaustion bar is different. You then take a massive hit to your skills, and the bar decreases each turn, and you lose the ability to do heavy stamina-using actions. It decreases at a set speed regardless of what you do; the exhaustion bar is basically a timer, and one that has to run down. Once it's at 0, you then gain back a % of your stamina and willpower instantly, and - if you stop doing stamina-using actions - they then climb back up.

The idea was that stamina would be very much the norm for most characters - if you have to keep fighting, then you get a bonus and a greater ability to maybe clear a path for yourself, or gain the extra speed to back off, or whatever, but if you keep moving too long, you'll take a big hit. Some players will obviously have high willpower and low endurance (which determines stamina and, to a lesser extent, exhaustion) and they'll have a more gambling style, because they'll be hitting willpower sooner, get more from it, but also spend longer being risky.

So, that's my logic. As I say, it's just an early idea, so I'm happy to hear alternatives. The exhaustion bar is basically a cool-down period after you use both. @ Enigmatic - you say it doesn't make sense to reward the player for running out of stamina, and I see your point, but my logic was that if you choose (or can't help) straying into it, then you're taking a risk - the stakes become upped at that point! It would allow you greater tactical possibilities, I think, if you knew how much you could fight before going into willpower, or if coming very close to willpower, then you have to make a decision - back off, or go into willpower, get the combat boost, and try and finish everybody off before you become exhausted?!

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Random thought of the day:
How about there is different stages of sneaking?
Instead of, invisible, and "Everyone within the entire country now knows your name, face, criminal record, and favorite type of cat."
Maybe, invisible, sighted, discovered?
Something inbetween, where a guard might have seen you, but doesn't know you or your intentions?
So, if your sneaking through the streets trying to hid from guards, and a merchant sees you, he might find you suspicious and keep an eye on you, but won't attack you or anything.
But if a guard on night patrol spotted you sneaking about, he would call for back up or try to apprehend you or something.

Currently creatures show up as being unaware of you, suspicious, or aware. Equally, I hope any information they gain about you should NOT spread unless they escape and get to tell people about it. I really like the merchant/guards idea - in some situations, guards might become auto-hostile, whilst in others they wouldn't.

Just as long as there isn't any silly "You have been detected message" im happy. What would really be fun is sneaking up on sneakers and then stabbing!

What would really be awesome is if you can use disguises and blend into crowds hitman/assassins creed style, like if one army has armour which is decorated with crests (house, army, civ, etc...) you can use it to pretend you are part of an army to then assassinate the leader before the battle and just walk away cool as a cucumber.

I don't know if there will be a message, but I'll have to think about it. Maybe there will be a visual alert instead...

I love that armour decoration idea! Consider it on the list.

[Man of Paper]

I like thinking of the Willpower as more like a second wind or that little rush you get when you know things are getting heavy. I think that's a nice balance, having it blown through quicker and risking entering the exhausted zone. It makes me think of a scenario where I'm on top of a hill fighting off foes trying to take the position. When I burn through the first meter I get into an almost battle trance, but if the fighting continues afterwards, I'm totally spent.

Kind of like Raging or Berserking in certain games, where you go nuts then suck for a little bit.

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

I like thinking of the Willpower as more like a second wind or that little rush you get when you know things are getting heavy. I think that's a nice balance, having it blown through quicker and risking entering the exhausted zone. It makes me think of a scenario where I'm on top of a hill fighting off foes trying to take the position. When I burn through the first meter I get into an almost battle trance, but if the fighting continues afterwards, I'm totally spent.

Kind of like Raging or Berserking in certain games, where you go nuts then suck for a little bit.

Very much my thinking (esp. the bolded part). I didn't want it to be a one-off ability, so I decided it might be interesting to have it as something you can only reach in dire situations, but you can ALWAYS reach when in those situations. Actually... that's quite a good way to put it. It's 2am here so I must depart, but that last sentence sums up some of my thoughts quite well. You can always dip into it, and if things are getting bad you can likely dip into it, and it gives you that little bit of extra potential to get out of the situation, whilst also giving you the tactical possibilities to actively seek out the willpower boost and take the risk.

EDIT: *Maybe* add an option to SWITCH to Willpower instantly, but you can't switch BACK to stamina?! So you can gamble from the start, if you want to... maybe. Thoughts?

Second edit: Ah, but might this current system be exploitable? Find a foe, run around and have them chase you, use up stamina and then fight? I might have the solution. Stamina is default, Willpower you toggle on/off through-out a battle (like berserking, in a way), but when BOTH are done, you go into exhaustion, so you need to manage the two throughout a battle. I think that solves every problem! You'd have, say, an x turn delay each time you change, so you can't constantly flick back and forth.

[Leatra]

Hmmm.

I agree with having something that works like an adrenaline rush or a berserker unleashing his rage or whatever. However, it needs to be carefully implemented so it won't be exploited but be very powerful and rare at the same time. The thing is, sometimes a person might launch into the "KILL EM ALL!" state of mind without exerting themselves, like being provoked or being passively threatened (seen some real life examples). It's not something that happens only when you are getting tired. Also, some people (like berserkers) should be able to have some kind of power over their willpower but the ability to switch to the willpower bar isn't realistic too. You don't choose to become iron-willed. Maybe we should let only berserkers do that. However, this might mean throwing in a new class. Maybe the player can be trained by a berserker or find a way to learn how to tap into their inner strength. Even if we become able to switch to the Willpower it should have some penalties. Like, we may accidently hit our allies if we go berzerk or something like that.

Maybe this Willpower stage could have a different standing in all this. Maybe it could just be chance-based situtation where your willpower bar will replace your stamina bar OR you'll just skip to the exhaustion bar. However, that would make all the berserkers pretty weak.

Soooo... I'm at a loss too.

[Man of Paper]

I actually really, really like the idea of being able to switch to willpower but not back until willpower is spent and you spend some time exhausted. It makes it a very strategic option. Do I charge immediately and cut through this group of small weak enemies, or should I keep it in reserves in case a big bad is hiding behind a tree?

Or if you can switch back and forth, have fatigue freeze in place so you can't exploit time in RAEJ MODE to regenerate your fatigue.