Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 192 193 [194] 195 196 ... 221

Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress meets The Outer Wilds? "Ultima Ratio Regum", v0.10.1 out Feb 2023  (Read 598223 times)

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2895 on: July 30, 2016, 04:59:57 pm »

Yeah, I know - it's just a cross post of the entry on my blog :).
Logged

guessingo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2896 on: July 31, 2016, 06:50:39 pm »

how close are you to the next release?
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2897 on: August 01, 2016, 08:58:02 am »

how close are you to the next release?

Hopefully... a month? Month and a bit?!
Logged

Daniel the Finlander

  • Bay Watcher
  • Making bacon pancakes
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2898 on: August 04, 2016, 07:48:31 pm »

Could sentence complexity be affected by the profession of the individual? For example, a priest's sentences would have a higher chance of being complex while a peasant's sentences would be more blunt and simple.
Logged
chances are their heads are being melted completely off due to pain forcing them to cry and tears don't evaporate so they just increase in temperature searing through the skull to the brain.

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2899 on: August 05, 2016, 06:34:59 pm »

Have you considered providing/accepting alternate tilesets or isometric view? I know you're keeping it close-sourced but if people contribute the sprites do you mind doing the code?

What ideas do you have about fail states? You're gradually deciphering a puzzle, so i wonder how you can make starting the process anew statisfying. I know you were considering time skips on failure; my question is how often we're gonna die. if it's thick and fast, i'd like to have maximum continuity so that i can run into the aftermath of my previous characters run amok. If it's very occasional but i'm still going to need 50 attempts, i won't mind so much about continuity since each character has established themselves but some callback would be nice beyond a gravestone.

Also, i demand some verbose NPC's do this.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 08:03:14 pm by Novel Scoops »
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2900 on: August 07, 2016, 01:52:56 pm »

Could sentence complexity be affected by the profession of the individual? For example, a priest's sentences would have a higher chance of being complex while a peasant's sentences would be more blunt and simple.

Agreed! That's something to be added :)

Have you considered providing/accepting alternate tilesets or isometric view? I know you're keeping it close-sourced but if people contribute the sprites do you mind doing the code?

What ideas do you have about fail states? You're gradually deciphering a puzzle, so i wonder how you can make starting the process anew statisfying. I know you were considering time skips on failure; my question is how often we're gonna die. if it's thick and fast, i'd like to have maximum continuity so that i can run into the aftermath of my previous characters run amok. If it's very occasional but i'm still going to need 50 attempts, i won't mind so much about continuity since each character has established themselves but some callback would be nice beyond a gravestone.

Also, i demand some verbose NPC's do this.

Alterate tilesets?

ISOMETRIC VIEW?!?!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh, I can imagine nothing more terrifying. The game is far too "hand-made" to use ASCII/ANSI characters to ever, ever do any other kind of display. Sadly that'll never happen, I'm afraid. However, for failure states, I haven't yet fully decided yet. As you imply, it'll need a lot of balancing and playtesting, and honestly - I'm just not sure yet. Death will be rare, though, but I need to make sure you don't just keep playing past a point you've already effectively "lost".
Logged

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2901 on: August 16, 2016, 08:46:29 am »

To make up for last week’s rather short entry, here’s a bit one. I’m pleased to report that a very pleasing volume of new stuff has been done this week, and things continue to look very exciting indeed. Read on!

Default Conversation Options

At this point almost all the “default” conversation options are done! This means everything that you can ask every character, and also the class-specific questions (like “What are you guarding?”, “What nation do you represent?”, “How long have you ruled this nation?”, etc). This was a totally huge volume of work I’ve been putting together over the last fortnight and it’s great to see it all nearly done,. and it’ll certainly be all done by this time next week. Here are some examples of conversations with people from specific classes, in this case with a priest, guard, and diplomat:







Default “Expansions”

“Expansions” are what I’m calling bits of a sentence that certain NPCs will add to certain words in a sentence. For example, as we’ve seen rather than just saying “What is the greatest battle your nation has fought?”, someone from a particularly militaristic nation might be “What is the greatest battle, that glorious arena in which all are equal, that your nation has ever fought?”. Similarly, rather than asking “Are there any mountains nearby?”, someone from a particularly exploration-focused nation might ask something like “Any there any mountains, those peaks that inspire us to great deeds, nearby?”. Almost all of the expansions for the default conversation options are now in place, and wow, there are a truly huge number. There are close to a thousand expansions I’ve written for various ideologies with various words, and much like everything else, the inclination of a person towards using expansions is contingent upon their sentence complexity value – a higher sentence complexity means more expansions. As a result of making conversations more human as we discussed a fortnight ago, these are now far rarer, but here are some examples from the generation system, which gathers all possible expansions for a certain word for every nation into one place, then if a random number is rolled that is lower than the nation’s sentence complexity, it selects an expansion for that nation for that term and stores it. Again, by this time next week these will be totally finished.



NPC Personalities

NPCs are now generated with four personality modifiers that will structure how they behave. These will now be explicitly visible, although they will be noticeable from the kinds of replies you get, and also in some cases I suspect I’ll get other NPCs to tell you about the personalities of other relevant NPCs.

Sentence Complexity – this has been shifted from nations to people, and reflects how much people give in answers they’re willing to give. By this, I mean let’s say you ask someone about whether they know about any nearby towns, and they know about five towns. Will they tell you all five, or just one, or somewhere in the middle, and will they comment on what they think about those towns? This modifier will determine that, but it’s different from whether they’ll reply at all – replying is a binary, and then the detail of the reply will be structured by these metrics.
Education – this affects how much someone knows, i.e. how often they’ll wind up saying “I don’t know!” to a question. Naturally this will vary according to class, and expected educational levels, and so forth, and therefore certain questions will be more likely to give you an answer from certain NPC classes, because others simply won’t know the answer!
Patience – this is a modifier for how much an NPC is willing to speak with you. This will combine with modifiers for each civilization, and also for each NPC class and the player’s current status (so a guard will be disinclined to talk to a random person automatically, whereas a merchant will naturally be more inclined to talk to a random person in the hope of making a sale).
Privacy – this modifier affects how willing the person is to talk about their own personal details, and probably how willing they are to tell you information about their culture, religion, etc. This won’t vary too much, but some NPCs of the same class will certainly be more or less concerned about telling strangers their thoughts.
These four metrics are being generated for each NPC, but I can’t say yet whether they’ll make it into the conversation system in 0.8 – I’m really trying to get an absolute core conversation system done, with the kind of scope and variation I want, and then release that. It’ll probably be in 0.9, but I thought it was worth drawing attention to these elements now, as more ways to vary the conversation experience.

Conversation Scrolling

Added a scroll-bar to the main conversation window. I pondered for a while how best to do this. Firstly, I was going to have the scroll bar only appear to the left-hand side of the right face when the conversation gets long enough, but that would mean that the conversation window would then slightly resize itself (which didn’t look nice) and it could slow things down a little to have to measure the size of the conversation before printing it, and then altering the size of the printed conversation. I then tried having a scroll bar only appear on the right-hand side double-grey border when you needed to be able to scroll, but this was very inelegant and seemed disconnected from the actual conversation you were scrolling through. As such, my third try was to do what I’m now going to stick with, which was to add a dark version of the scroll bar always present on the right-hand side, and then have that scroll bar expand and light-up once the conversation is too long. See below:



(Though you’ll note just for testing purposes I asked the same question a lot, and they didn’t get bored – boredom still needs implementing!)

Next Week

Next week I’ll be finishing off the final parts of the elements above, and I’ll be working on the non-default responses. This means answers which are negative, e.g. you ask “What size is your army” and the reply is “We have no army”, and also special answers, like “What do you think about [nation]” which doesn’t easily fit into a sentence structure where you just switch out words, as they’d express positive/neutral/negative feelings very differently, so these need more complex answers. See you all then!
Logged

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2902 on: August 16, 2016, 01:06:39 pm »

Great update and it's really coming together well. I still feel that it needs the NPCs to ask questions back - with how realistic the conversation is, it feels extremely odd to be having a one sided conversation. Even if it was little things ('what about you?') that'd be great, but it'd be even better if they asked questions that might have some bearing on relationships ('Are you a follower of the Light of Zarthon?' 'yes' 'well, let us say the holy chant of olivepesto together then!' and so on...)

Again I feel it's one of those things where you can do a little to get a big result ('what city are you from?' - allied city good, enemy city bad), and add more when it becomes worth while. You probably wouldn't want many questions as you probably wouldn't launch into a full blown back and forth with a stranger (and it might get annoying) but I feel that none at all becomes a bit strange.

Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2903 on: August 16, 2016, 08:44:39 pm »

Replies should be a bit less straightforward. You've got these cultural extensions that colour the speech, and your first example nails a tone; in general answers should be delivered stylishly like that. People love to be snappy. If they're being blunt, i don't think ellipses alone cut the mustard. Bolding/itallicizing important words would work; "I protect the manor of House Lopponama..."

I think either showing or narrating changes in expression can help too. I'll take a curt answer from the farmer if "he stares into the distance for a second" say.

NPC's should predict some questions. All your conversations namedrop frequently, and if your question indicates you don't know about that either they should explain of their own accord, depending on personality.
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Ultima Ratio Regum

  • Bay Watcher
  • Game Studies Lecturer, "Ultima Ratio Regum" person
    • View Profile
    • Ultima Ratio Regum
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2904 on: August 17, 2016, 03:34:14 pm »

Great update and it's really coming together well. I still feel that it needs the NPCs to ask questions back - with how realistic the conversation is, it feels extremely odd to be having a one sided conversation. Even if it was little things ('what about you?') that'd be great, but it'd be even better if they asked questions that might have some bearing on relationships ('Are you a follower of the Light of Zarthon?' 'yes' 'well, let us say the holy chant of olivepesto together then!' and so on...)

Again I feel it's one of those things where you can do a little to get a big result ('what city are you from?' - allied city good, enemy city bad), and add more when it becomes worth while. You probably wouldn't want many questions as you probably wouldn't launch into a full blown back and forth with a stranger (and it might get annoying) but I feel that none at all becomes a bit strange.

Excellent :D! Oh, totally, they will be asking questions back. Maybe next week, maybe the week after; we'll see how things play out. This weekend is totally free for URR coding, which is truly wonderful, and I'm looking forward to getting a real ton done. I totally agree, it's a fair easy addition, and one that shouldn't crop up too often in "general" conversation, but will make things way more realistic.

Olivepesto, olivepesto, olivepesto, olivepesto...

Replies should be a bit less straightforward. You've got these cultural extensions that colour the speech, and your first example nails a tone; in general answers should be delivered stylishly like that. People love to be snappy. If they're being blunt, i don't think ellipses alone cut the mustard. Bolding/itallicizing important words would work; "I protect the manor of House Lopponama..."

I think either showing or narrating changes in expression can help too. I'll take a curt answer from the farmer if "he stares into the distance for a second" say.

NPC's should predict some questions. All your conversations namedrop frequently, and if your question indicates you don't know about that either they should explain of their own accord, depending on personality.

Hmm, interesting! Sadly I can't make things into italics easily, but bluntless will have a lot of '.' and '...', and just shorter answers in general. I DO like the idea of showing/narrating things, too! I love that idea, actually. I'll add that in and put it in a different colour or style or something. Predicting questions: hmm, interesting. I did have an idea vaguely like that to alter certain replies based on earlier replies, but these might have to wait for the quick 0.9 after 0.8!
Logged

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2905 on: August 20, 2016, 12:45:04 pm »


Excellent :D! Oh, totally, they will be asking questions back. Maybe next week, maybe the week after; we'll see how things play out. This weekend is totally free for URR coding, which is truly wonderful, and I'm looking forward to getting a real ton done. I totally agree, it's a fair easy addition, and one that shouldn't crop up too often in "general" conversation, but will make things way more realistic.

Olivepesto, olivepesto, olivepesto, olivepesto...

Awesome - I can't wait!! I think a truly two way conversation is uncharted territory in games - I can't think of a single game which does it. Some RPG games (bioware for example) do have a lot of sort of 'conversation paths' which you can choose, but that's not really the same thing. You can rarely completely ruin or improve a conversation, and they'll rarely ask you anything that isn't plot central.

You may have mentioned this before, but will each NPC have a general disposition variable to the player, and what effect will that have? If I raise it high enough will it open further options? It'd be brilliant if I could structure a conversation in such a way that if I butter them up correctly, I'd get a better response than if I just went for 'when does the major leave the barracks?'.

Secondly, and this might seem a strange idea, but have you thought about putting in mini-games? I was just reading through this thread on tafl (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156664.0) and thought how awesome it'd be to have some games like that to play. Whilst I know you've got a strict schedule, even putting in a game of checkers or similar could be a really nice addition. If you gave different civs different games/rules, it'd give players a great incentive to explore before the full adventuring stuff is in. Just something to think about.

On pasta, on bread and out of the jar; olive pesto, olive pesto...
Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Scoops Novel

  • Bay Watcher
  • Talismanic
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2906 on: August 20, 2016, 02:06:36 pm »

Ancient games like this would certainly add personality.
Logged
Reading a thinner book

Arcjolt (useful) Chilly The Endoplasm Jiggles

Hums with potential    a flying minotaur

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2907 on: August 20, 2016, 03:34:35 pm »

Ancient games like this would certainly add personality.

Yeah, that was exactly the kind of thing I was thinking about. Even really simple ones would add a bit of flavor and give a something to do other than just endlessly explore.

I find with the Witcher that it's great to have a break from the general exploring/whatever to go and do a few minigames - it's a bit of a palate cleanser and also makes me feel just that little bit more immersed.
Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

NJW2000

  • Bay Watcher
  • You know me. What do I know?
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2908 on: August 20, 2016, 05:22:07 pm »

[INDEPTH:VERY]
[DIFFICULT:MASSIVELY]

Is my prediction. But it would be pretty fun and flavoursome.
Logged
One wheel short of a wagon

Retropunch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Ultima Ratio Regum - roguelike/Borges/Eco, v0.7 released!
« Reply #2909 on: August 20, 2016, 05:35:14 pm »

[INDEPTH:VERY]
[DIFFICULT:MASSIVELY]

Is my prediction. But it would be pretty fun and flavoursome.

Should be pretty easy relatively speaking - most of these games have been made a billion times over in python (I did a checkers and a basic chess game as tutorials when I was learning) and slotting it in shouldn't be too bad. Yes, if you wanted to add custom/procedural rules that'd be a lot more difficult, but just some basic naughts and crosses/checkers type games should be easy enough to throw in.

Not saying it's simple, just that I believe the pay off would be pretty big for what it entails.
Logged
With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.
Pages: 1 ... 192 193 [194] 195 196 ... 221