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[Kogan Loloklam]

Works fine now.
Phone copypasta sucks. It only took me two edits to get it right. You just clicked it too soon. Had to add a ho, and drop an eye.

[Eagle_eye]

It is not only a women's rights concern but a very real public health concern.

This, of course, is the logical disconnect. Anti-abortionists see abortion as exactly the same as braining a toddler with a rock, which makes it impossible to comprehend why someone would call it a women's rights issue (after all, men aren't legally entitled to murder babies either.) Likewise, those who don't see it as murder (on the grounds that it isn't a human until after birth) have difficulty comprehending it as anything but a rights issue.

I don't think anyone believes babies aren't human until after birth. The point is, early in pregnancy, before the brain is developed past a simple support system, they're not conscious. It doesn't matter that they could become conscious, unless you consider masturbating or having a period equivalent to abortion.

It may be that the lockstep for Democrats is looser than that of the Democrats on social issues, but I'm not convinced of it. Pretty much every major issue has partisans on both sides, but that doesn't change the party line or what national candidates can get away with while keeping the faithful.

Well, there were democrats who supported government health insurance , there were those who opposed it. Republicans all opposed it. There are democrats in favor of financial regulation, there are a few against it. Basically all republican congresspeople oppose it.

[Kilroy the Grand]

"Being fine with sex"

Only between a man and woman.
Who are married.
To each other.
For the sole purpose of procreation.
In the privacy of their own bedroom.
In the missionary position.
With the lights out.
After this one I usually veer into humor because shits already gotten absurd.

Blindfolded, with as much clothing as possible, through a hole in the sheet.
Alright, I'll stop

I think you're confusing republicans with hasidic jews, I they those two groups are buttbuddies, but there is some difference.

[Nadaka]

...
I don't think anyone believes babies aren't human until after birth. The point is, early in pregnancy, before the brain is developed past a simple support system, they're not conscious. It doesn't matter that they could become conscious, unless you consider masturbating or having a period equivalent to abortion.
...

There are people who believe that masturbation is equivalent to abortion.

[Sirus]

I remember reading a anti-abortion mini-pamphlet from the 60s/70s. It claimed that as early as 3 months, a fetus already had a beating heart, all organs and limbs, and a fully functioning brain; it just needed to grow. Then went on to have the "baby" chopped up or stabbed, claiming that they dumped still-moving "babies" in the garbage dump.

[Willfor]

A few pages ago, this topic specifically was warned to stick to debating the election. Abortion may be a key issue in it after all, but everyone seems to have decided to debate the most contentious part of this debate you could have possibly chosen.

So I must ask everyone. Do you REALLY want to get this topic locked? Couldn't the "facts and opinions about abortion" part go off to a separate thread while leaving the "people might actually care about this this time" part stay in here? Honestly.

[darkrider2]

We're actually being pretty civil. In fact I've never seen abortion come up and be as civil as it is right about now.

[RedKing]

There's another thing going on here with this kind of rhetoric, one which wasn't as immediately apparent to me.

Akin went on Mike Huckabee's show today, semi-sorta-apologized, and then "clarified" by saying he was only referring to "forcible rape" (as opposed to casual, "oops I just slipped and my penis fell in you" rape??)

Sound a little weird? There's a method to the derpness. See, the rape exemption/"loophole" (from their POV) creates problems. If you allow it for forcible rape (or what they sometimes refer to as "legitimate rape", a neologism that is just wrong on so many levels), then what about statutory rape? Which is, of course, defined as any sex (even consensual) with a person not of age of consent, as defined by their home state.

OMG 15-year old girls would get a free pass for abortions!!

Basically, they see it as a slippery slope problem -- make an exception for rape, you have to start considering exemptions for other valid reasons. BUT...if you can make some kind of case that "real rape" can't produce a child, then you don't need to bother with exemptions for it. Problem solved. Except for that "incest and/or life of the mother at risk" exemptions.

I can't WAIT to hear the talking points on those.
"Incest isn't a terrible thing! Why, it was a practice of royalty for centuries! It strengthens the gene pool! It prevents miscegenation!"

[Willfor]

We're actually being pretty civil. In fact I've never seen abortion come up and be as civil as it is right about now.

I've seen it be even more civil than this on this very forum. I'm hoping that it can continue to be civil. I'm not, however, fully entrusting it to continue to be civil going into the future. If it can, cool. I have, however, seen it become a veritable shitstorm on this very forum in the past too. That's why I was worried. :/

[Aqizzar]

Problem solved. Except for that "... life of the mother at risk" exemptions.

Like I mentioned, there's answers for that one too.  Namely that there is no such thing as health risk from pregnancies, only evil doctors who have a financial incentive (of some sort) to do bad medicine or just really want to kill infants.  Sure it doesn't come up much, but believe me it's out there.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Problem solved. Except for that "... life of the mother at risk" exemptions.

Like I mentioned, there's answers for that one too.  Namely that there is no such thing as health risk from pregnancies, only evil doctors who have a financial incentive (of some sort) to do bad medicine or just really want to kill infants.  Sure it doesn't come up much, but believe me it's out there.

Even better: "Medicine is evil because when God intends for humans to die they must die."

[RedKing]

Problem solved. Except for that "... life of the mother at risk" exemptions.

Like I mentioned, there's answers for that one too.  Namely that there is no such thing as health risk from pregnancies, only evil doctors who have a financial incentive (of some sort) to do bad medicine or just really want to kill infants.  Sure it doesn't come up much, but believe me it's out there.

Even better: "Medicine is evil because when God intends for humans to die they must die."

I see you're familiar with the Church of Christ, Scientist.

[freeformschooler]

Problem solved. Except for that "... life of the mother at risk" exemptions.

Like I mentioned, there's answers for that one too.  Namely that there is no such thing as health risk from pregnancies, only evil doctors who have a financial incentive (of some sort) to do bad medicine or just really want to kill infants.  Sure it doesn't come up much, but believe me it's out there.

Even better: "Medicine is evil because when God intends for humans to die they must die."

I see you're familiar with the Church of Christ, Scientist.

I was at a fundraiser for an older woman's lung transplant once. Everyone there paid to help her, but at the table I sat at, several other women were shaking their heads and saying how organ transplants are against God's plan and this woman was awful for asking for money for one.

So basically, confirmed.

[Descan]

The debate is civil because the troll wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross got muted for a week.

[palsch]

Akin went on Mike Huckabee's show today, semi-sorta-apologized, and then "clarified" by saying he was only referring to "forcible rape" (as opposed to casual, "oops I just slipped and my penis fell in you" rape??)

Atlantic article on the "apology", although from that it does look like he just replaced the word 'legitimate' with 'forcible'. He also said that you can get pregnant from rape without addressing whether it's rare or if his anti-rape-pregnancy system is a real thing or if he confused humans with ducks (NB: actual statistics suggest rapes have a higher incidence of pregnancy than consensual sex, although I'd guess that's more from under-reporting rapes that don't result in pregnancies than anything physiological - lost the link on this, will track it down if people are interested). It looks like Huck helped him stand his ground against abortions in the event of rape though, which keeps the issue alive.

The current situation means Obama can walk up to a podium, say Romney should release his tax returns and, "rape is rape," and have the easiest gold news cycle of any election he's ran in. Well, maybe not the early days after Palin was announced, but close.