Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Creative Projects => Topic started by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 12:48:12 am

Title: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 12:48:12 am
Note: I am currently not beta-testing, and I will let you guys know when I am.

Okay, so I just want to run some things by you fine folks to gauge some reactions among people who may potentially be part of my player base (or who may be people like those people.)

I'm writing a High Fantasy Pen and Paper RPG with a unique setting, and am including the following things:

Setting: A diverse world locked into pre-Renaissance technology, where magic is commonplace, gods are tangible (and like to cut deals,) monsters are dangerous, and education may be the key to survival. Glory can be won, like just about every RPG on the market, through adventuring, but there are a ton of other options. You can raise an army and conquer the local countryside. You can craft all of your own equipment out of over 100 alchemy enhanceable materials from scratch, mining and harvesting materials by hand, then smelting, refining, and shaping the materials into exactly what you want, no longer a slave to the shopkeepers and treasure chests of the world. You can go so far as to enchant, engrave, and bless it all, from swords and armor to clothes and jewelry. You can brew all of your own potions, elixirs, tinctures, and salves, as well as cook your own food. You can build castles and ships by hand (or have your army do it for you.) You can build a trade empire, or take a ship pirating. You can explore and colonize uncharted islands. You can tame and heal animals, farm, fish, and hunt. You can fight in arenas, engage in a verbal duel with diplomats and nobles, tell fortunes, perform for cash in the street, gamble in back alleys and black markets, paint and sculpt, draw tattoos, or steal your way to riches. You can preach in the streets or in the highest temples across the land for favor with the gods that you can cash in for miracles in your favor. You can explore the underground technological ruins left by the first age of man and find out what caused the Great Cataclysm that destroyed humanity in the First Age. You can go to school to refine your skills within the safety of high walls, or duel with dragons and demons in the vast untamed wilds of Avarsiin.

This is Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin.

+16 Playable Lineages,
+48 Proficiencies that your character can master, each gaining power as you use them,
+130 Spells, 100 Blessings and 100 Curses,
+The ability to create all your own equipment from scratch in game, including the ability to start from raw materials and enchant your own items,
+100 unique weapon types, and over 100 wearable item types. This makes for a huge number of possible combinations with which to craft items...and then you can further customize them,
+On top of being able to make thousands and thousands of different items, the ability to create custom ships and buildings from the ground up,
+35 Different types of Metal, 19 types of Stone, 21 types of Wood, 13 types of Glass and Stoneware, 13 types of Cloth, 14 types of Leather, and 74 types of Natural Materials (Shells, Bone, Claws, etc,)
+100 Different Monsters,
+100 Different Humanoid Enemy Types,
+10 Gods/Goddesses with a deep system for Favor and Gifts from your chosen Deity, as well as Favor with local and regional nobility,
+100 Different animals to train, fight and work with,
+Several ways to evolve your character mid-game,
+Modes of play include: Standard (Party Dungeon Crawl), Military, Naval, Management, and Political, all merged into one playstyle,
+All done using one type of die (no more algebra!), which will hopefully come prepackaged with the game (d10s),
+All in one book! No expansions to buy unless I get really successful and there's a huge outcry for them!
+All for a very tentative price point of about $25-$30! Possibly in PDF Format for $5!
+Hopefully, if I can ever get around to learning to code a little, a CD with a one player campaign on it for use with a computer.

What I hoped to do with this post was to get reactions from people as far as whether or not I should bother continuing my writing. I just can't keep second guessing myself. Been working on this monster for a little over a decade now, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time. I hope to have it done by Origins 2014 someday, but then, I've been telling myself that I'll complete it soon for the last five years. Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Heron TSG on June 15, 2010, 12:57:16 am
It's nice, but the formatting of your post leaves much to be desired. You don't have to indent that much.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 15, 2010, 01:04:33 am
He forgot to close half of the listitem tags. Must've written two and copypasted the format.

Well, as for the game itself... how should we know? The numbers look large and menacing, the features are nice, but we can't give you any real feedback unless you feed us some details. For all we know, you're making another FATAL. ;)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 01:06:19 am
Yar, that is the case. Once again, I suck at HTML BBCode.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 15, 2010, 01:08:42 am
Bump for edit of above post.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 01:13:04 am
Oh, no. I'm trying to make everything that FATAL isn't. What kind of details do you need? I'll happily feed them to you, with a spoon, even!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 15, 2010, 01:25:42 am
Well, I don't really know. An example character sheet could work to show what kind of details you're putting in (lack of orifice circumference parameters would be one way to distinguish it from FATAL :P), maybe some kind of description of the combat process and skill/spell systems?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 01:49:53 am
Proficiencies (Skills) work as follows: Each Proficiency (like Smithing or Enchanting or Fortune Telling, etc.) lets you build skill through use. If you use a Proficiency 100 times, you get a bonus to using it. Each 100, you get another bonus, up to 1000 whereupon you get Mastery, which is a very large bonus.

Spells work on a tier based system. 3 Basic, 3 Intermediate, 3 Advanced and one Master spell. 10 Elemental Schools of magic (Elements play Rock, Paper, Scissors with one another,) and 10 Ritual (read: Non-elemental) Schools. Spells are cast from Mana.

Combat is very simple: Each player figures out combat order using an extrapolated stat called Velocity. Combat order happens, and each player takes a turn. Assuming you would just attack your opponent, you would check Accuracy against your opponent's Dodge. If you score higher, you hit. You calculate damage by adding your Attack Score (extrapolated by weapon type: Unarmed, Melee or Ranged) to your weapon and subtract it from the opponent's defense score (once again: Unarmed, Melee or Ranged) and their armor.

While I don't think I'm ready to break out my character sheet, I assure you that there is no method of keeping track of orifices.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 15, 2010, 02:19:14 am
Sounds nice. Well, if you want to know whether or not to keep going - keep at it, of course! Disregarding the fact that stopping now would devalue the "little over a decade" you've spent on it, a good new system is always welcome. With, uh, one tiny point. How high is the possibility of there being location-based damage? I'm personally quite tired of the "overall hitpoints" concept.

Oh, and before I forget - there's no HTML here, there's just BBCode. ;)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Armok on June 15, 2010, 04:25:44 am
Sounds rather generic. Except for the different play modes, I'd like to hear more about that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 05:52:12 am
Ultimately, we can only give you approximate answers on how good it looks. It may be that the system is inherently broken, or too complicated to understand, or turns take too long/too short. Ultimately, the only way to find out if it works is to play it.

I would reccomend that you do the following:
-Try to run a few games with some experienced RPers. Try to get a wide variety of game types, levels, playstyles, experience, etc. Get feedback.
-Get some of these people to try designing their own campaign/setting/game. You would have a deep and intimate knowledge of the system, so you could do it. These people would not, so it is important to know if they would be able to. Get feedback.
-Find some people who have never played any games like this before. See how easy it is for them to understand and pick it up
-Send a few munchkins a copy of the game rules. Tell them to try to break it in as many ways as they can. Fix these methods, if possible. If not, make a note in the ruleset for the GMs to watch out for.

Also, a few things to watch out for:
-Try to avoid sudden shifts in character progression. Although there will be a definite point where a character learns a new ability, try to make the growth of this ability gradual and smooth. After all, characters don't go from being five foot and weedy to seven foot and stacked in the blink of an eye.
-Try to work out the economy of the system, and think about price levels and currency. If you don't think about the price levels, you'll get something like FATAL, where a slave costs the same as two loaves of bread. Make sure the currency works, too - You're going to get prices varying a lot for different items. The currency system should allow one to buy a loaf of bread and a +999sword of doom. If the currency system is too inflexible, then you're going to end up with no unit of currency small enough to pay for bread, and having to cart around a thousand tons of gold to pay for the sword.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Pathos on June 15, 2010, 07:21:56 am
-Try to avoid sudden shifts in character progression. Although there will be a definite point where a character learns a new ability, try to make the growth of this ability gradual and smooth. After all, characters don't go from being five foot and weedy to seven foot and stacked in the blink of an eye.

I think ed's lying, because this is the complete opposite of what the internet tells me I can do. As long as I buy the correct things, of course.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 09:57:26 am
@Armok: The different play styles are meant to be played seamlessly. For example, if you wanted to take a dungeon crawling crew, and start them out in a small pile of debt to run a shop while they develop skills to make really cool equipment and extra cash before they head out, then go exploring and find a bunch of treasure, and then buy a bunch of mercenaries and conquer the hometown, then use those mercenaries to build a huge ship and go conquering islands...you can totally do that seamlessly.

@ed boy: It's been thoroughly alpha'd, with munchkins, newbs and experienced RPers alike. The munchkins enjoy the customization, the RPers like the change of scenery and the ease of worldbuilding, and the newbs enjoy the lack of complicated math. Learning curve is about 20 minutes after character creation, and that takes about as long.

Currency works rather well. Three types of coin: one cheap, one median and one expensive. Just about all of my friends ran for the dictionary when I used the word Scrimshaw for the first time.

@pathos: I don't think that the internet is talking about that with all of those "growth formulas". It seems mighty obsessed with a certain body part or another.

Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 10:04:20 am
If it's as good as you say it is, then I don't know what adivce to give you, other than publish.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 11:22:50 am
I'm just having a hard time sitting down and actually getting writing done. It's...overwhelming, putting that much in one place.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 11:50:12 am
Wait, so you've got everything planned out, you just need to compile it into one big resource?

Try to imagine explaining the game to someone from scratch.
1-If neccesary, put a chapter or two at the beginning explaining the nature of P&P RPGs. That done, go over how to create a character and understand their character sheet. Go into as much detail as you can - even explain things that you think would be obvious.
2-Explain how the system works - If someone uses ther climb skill to climb a wall, then explain how you use this skill, how you add bonues and penalties, and their consequences. In this section, also go through how equipment works, how to calculate damage, and the basic mechanics of the game. Make sure to include how the currency works.
3-I would go through the different classes that the player can be. Detail what sort of gameplay the players would do, detail how their skills are used, and detail their strengths and weaknesses. If there are any skills available to all classes, list them here, list what they do, that sort of thing. Don't be afriad to add a new chapter for this.
4-Go through the magic system(s). If there are several magic systems, then have a seperate chapter for each.
5-Explain how the battle system works. Although you might have given a brief explanation in chapter two, go through it all again. Once you cover the basic stuff, give information on advanced techniques (like grappling) and how spellcasting works.
6-You mentioned that there are several ways to evolve your character mid-game. Go through them here. If you system has an equivalent of multi-classing, go through it here. Do all the advanced character development stuff. You mentioned training animals - explain this here.
7-Give a bit of information about the outside world. List how the economy works, what the gods are like, how to interact with them, that sort of thing. Split into multiple chapters if neccesary.
8-Crafting/enchanting. Explain how the system works, but don't list the giant tables of values.
9-Go through any examples you have. Example characters, example battles, example everything.
10-Any notes for GMs.
Don't be afriad to use appendices. You said you had hundreds of monsters, hundreds of equipment types. Use appendices for them - this way people don't have to trawl through pages of the stuff. I would suggest appendixes each for:
-Spells (one appendix for each magic system)
-Monsters
-Animals
-Armour
-Weapons
-Miscellaneous equipment
-Crafting
-Enchanting
-Materials

Of course, that's just advice from someone with no experience of writing a rulebook for an RPG. Feel free to disregard all this, if you want.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 12:07:23 pm
I appreciate all the input. I've got character creation and character sheet done, as well as all my classes. I'm currently working on equipment. I'm just overwhelmed because I'm a raging perfectionist and I want everything to be perfect. That whole rough draft thing? Yeah, I can't do that. I just get frustrated and re-edit and re-edit until that section is perfect. Then the whole thing is off by just a little bit and I scrap he whole thing and start over. I'm on version five. People have been playing my last ruleset for about four years now waiting for me to get this one done and actually get it to print.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 12:09:05 pm
Well, keep us updated. I for one am intrigued.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 12:11:55 pm
Anything in particular you're looking for?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 12:25:04 pm
Well, I for one would like to get into the pen and paper RPG scene, but the existing RPGs seem to be very expensive (where you have to buy a dozen books to be an average player, and those books aren't cheap). You promise a PDF going cheap that will be all I need - it seems a bargain!

Of course, distributing it as a PDF would have its problems - no doubt there will be many people who put up illegal copies on file sharing sites.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 01:24:46 pm
Yeah, I know. I've thought about that possibility, and before I distribute the PDF, I plan on becoming a member of places like Scribd and various filesharing sites. A lot of pirates seem to get their kicks out of screwing over "The man", and when you politely point out that you're only screwing over one dude with a wife and kid to take care of, they generally respond in your favor. Besides, if people are seeking it out, that means that they've heard of it, and if they've heard of it, I can't be doing too poorly.

tl;dr version: Piracy is a risk I'm willing to take.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 01:41:19 pm
Also, yes, everything is totally planned and mostly written down...in various notebooks and spread across various files. I just need to get all of it in one spot, and then let my friends take their red markers to it (I have several friends who are majoring in English,) and then rewrite according to them, illustrate (doing it myself, and I assure you that I'm much better with the pencil than code,) send it to the formatter I have lined up, have her format it so that it looks nice, rewrite according to her, and then publish. Possibly with another rewrite if I don't self publish.

I just have a long road ahead and I'm one of those people who has trouble not dragging their feet.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 15, 2010, 02:24:29 pm
I have that problem, so what I do is set yourself deadlines. Don't have these deadlines be enforced by yourself, but go up to one of the people who will check it and say that you'll have X done by Y. I find it helps.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 04:28:43 pm
Hm...I never thought about doing that. Maybe I'll try to get ahold of one of those friends later. Anyway, do you think people would be interested in test-reading a few things for me, just to get a general feel?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 15, 2010, 11:35:13 pm
Well, I'm gonna do some samples for you all now, because I'm starting to get excited about the thought of people other than people I actually know face to face reading my crap. So, here goes!

Some stuff you may like:

Dorfs!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elves!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Goblins!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alchemy!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Swords!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

God o' Death
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

10 Imp subtypes!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know it's a lot of stuff, but hopefully someone is interested and gives me some feedback. I know that without all the numbers and systems to look at the numbers don't really mean much, but hey, it's a start, right?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 16, 2010, 02:37:27 am
It all looks wonderful - you've clearly put a lot of effort into this.

I am a bit of a grammar nazi, though, and you might want to change:
This usually results in screams of mercy for the Overlander as the Dwarf attempts to tie their limbs into a knot.
Into:
This usually results in screams of mercy from the Overlander as the Dwarf attempts to tie their limbs into a knot.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: tomas1297 on June 16, 2010, 02:50:01 am
So,how much of it is already made?Looks like a huge goal to me.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 16, 2010, 03:04:58 am
@ed boy: Changed, and duly noted. That's why I want a bunch of my friends to go over this monster with their red pens. Whenever possible, MaximumZero prefers to consume Dwarven Rum, and then do his writing. Perhaps I'll get a PDF online sometime to a select few Bay12ers. You all seem like a good Alpha/Beta test group, not that I want to take anyone away from DF or Toady. I appreciate the further words of praise.

@tomas: I'm halfway through page 50 contiguously, and if all estimates were done properly, it should round out to about 400 pages or so. Please note that I also have several pages finished in random spots around the book where a fey mood had taken me. When I started, I put together a skeleton/framework of about 115 pages that I am filling in as I go, and will reformat when it all looks good. I have an Alpha (if you can call it that, as it's the 4th version I've done,) distributed to my friends that they've been playing for a good solid couple years now. However, v5 is going to be an entire rewrite, even though the core rules and setting of the game will be the same.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2010, 04:06:18 am
Well, I for one would like to get into the pen and paper RPG scene, but the existing RPGs seem to be very expensive (where you have to buy a dozen books to be an average player, and those books aren't cheap). You promise a PDF going cheap that will be all I need - it seems a bargain!

Of course, distributing it as a PDF would have its problems - no doubt there will be many people who put up illegal copies on file sharing sites.

This isn't true at all. Most RP systems are contained within one book. Very few have information spread across multiple books. The one that do, arent require in order to play, they may be required in order to run it. DnD is a classic example. Yea, there 3 core books, that can set ya back 120ish, but players only need on, the PHB. The other systems which do have multuple books, are optional.

For DnD, you're looking at 23 for the PHB, and 14 bucks for a nice dice set. For 37 dollars.

Which after 10 sesions you'll be heading towards the 1 dollar per hour of fun ratio.   

It can be expensive. But you can game on the cheap. Even here, those dice can last you years. I have dice I've used close to 15 years.  And RPG books never go out of style. If you dont like the new edition of your favored RP series, stick to an older edition. There still peeps that play DnD 1ed, to my horror.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 16, 2010, 04:19:14 am
DnD requires just the handbook. It also needs you to match any handbook additions and extra sourcebooks that the other players have. Meaning that unless you're playing the very first version of a given edition, you're going to purchase about five to ten different books, to keep informed of all the mechanics introduced to the game.

As far as I understood, MaximumZero is aiming to create a well and truly final version of his game, included in just one book, which is why he seeks input and tries to gather as much feedback as possible.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2010, 04:48:14 am
DnD requires just the handbook. It also needs you to match any handbook additions and extra sourcebooks that the other players have. Meaning that unless you're playing the very first version of a given edition, you're going to purchase about five to ten different books, to keep informed of all the mechanics introduced to the game.

None sense. You only need to match it if you feel you need your to own your copy. A GM would be a total asshat if he required you to buy the books in order to play. (Not to say they don't exist.) Most gaming groups dont mind sharing resources, including rp books. You may not be able to burrow them, but reference them during play shouldnt be an issue.

Quote
As far as I understood, MaximumZero is aiming to create a well and truly final version of his game, included in just one book, which is why he seeks input and tries to gather as much feedback as possible.

This isn't unique, and is standard practice.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 16, 2010, 05:50:49 am
Unique or not, this "standard practice" isn't actually practiced by some. DnD 4 already had three "player's handbooks" last time I was interested in it. I just wanted to emphasize that I think MaximumZero here is doing this thing the right way.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2010, 05:58:33 am
Unique or not, this "standard practice" isn't actually practiced by some. DnD 4 already had three "player's handbooks" last time I was interested in it. I just wanted to emphasize that I think MaximumZero here is doing this thing the right way.

And DnD is unique in this, and the those PHB are optional and exclusive. I dont need PHB 1 to use PHB2. They have different focuses. As the first PHB was martial, the second was wilds the third is devine, I believe. They also don't require others players to have copies of them. If I am running a class out of PHB1, and someone else is using a class from PHB2, it doesn't affect my character. As we're played by the same rules and the players and GM know what their class can do.

Heck, with how dnd 4 is set up, its easier to share rp books, You get small selection of abilities that are meant to be on index cards.

I still like my 3.5 over 4, but 4 has some nifty design choices.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Blacken on June 16, 2010, 09:23:34 am
Much of the appeal of these games comes from having quality prose for fluff text that people can read when not at the table. No offense intended, but you desperately need an editor for style and flow.

And, were I you, I'd talk up your game much less. There are professionals who've been in the industry twenty years who don't pimp their games the way you are, and they've actually shipped.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 16, 2010, 10:51:13 am
@Sean Mirsen: Thank you for your support! I'm glad to hear your opinion!

@MrWiggles: The reason I talk up having a self contained game is because the mainstream games on the market right now are made by Wizards of the Coast and White Wolf. Those companies are all about churning out as many books as possible. If you don't believe me, please try to read something like Rokugan  or Planescape from WotC, or Pimp: The Backhanding from WW (no, I'm serious.)  Furthermore, I'm mostly familiar with D&D 3.5, and while you can play the game with just the PHB, it's not even remotely a complete system. You need at least a DMG (to explain more obscure rules) and a MM (because you can't play just "Dungeons") to play a completed system. Look up the feat "Leadership" if you don't believe me.

The innumerable expansion thing? The roping players into buying a slew of books just to have a little fun? Yeah, I'm trying not to do those things.

Thank you for the criticism and time.

@Blacken: I have a professional editor lined up because I know that my writing is jittery and imperfect. Also, I have a pack of hyenas at the waiting to tear me to pieces over things like that (did you miss the post about my English major friends and their big red pens?)

Furthermore, were you me, you wouldn't be proud of about 2000 pages of notes? You wouldn't be proud of making something from nothing? Sure, I may not be the most humble person in the world, but this is the internet: if I'm not at least a little brash and loud, no one's going to hear me.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: G-Flex on June 16, 2010, 11:12:19 am
Just from the OP here, I know virtually nothing about the game. That's just a feature checklist, and that's not how P&P games should be described. That's akin to saying a videogame has "20 weapons" without saying whether it's an FPS or a JRPG or a point-and-click adventure.

What's important are fundamentals. Is it heavy on the rules? Light? What kinds of rules (Okay, you said that it uses d10s, but that's not much)? What sort of thematic elements do those rules and the setting carry across? For that matter, what IS the setting? All we know is that it's "high fantasy", and there you might as well be saying "I'm selling bread, and the bread is sort of white and has crust".

The fact that you mention weird random stuff like a number of stone types (this content is really easy to make and says virtually nothing about the game) kind of says something about your priorities, to be honest. Nobody cares about number of spells, or weapons, or animals, or whatever. Well... it's not that it doesn't matter at all, but quantity isn't the most important thing, and that sort of content is usually added pretty easily to begin with.

What matters is how the system is designed, how good the setting/fluff is, whether or not it's interesting enough to fill its own niche within the genre, and so on. It's easy to say fluff isn't important, but if setting or theme is at all important, that stuff really helps to get players into the game. A few well-written bits of fluff can say more about the gameworld and its mood/setting/themes than even an extremely large amount of descriptive text, and is more effective at doing it.


One thing I'd like to ask, in all honesty: What does your game bring to the table that other available games don't? I'm not implying that there's no answer to this question; it's just a very important thing to ask.



@MrWiggles: The reason I talk up having a self contained game is because the mainstream games on the market right now are made by Wizards of the Coast and White Wolf. Those companies are all about churning out as many books as possible. If you don't believe me, please try to read something like Rokugan  or Planescape from WotC, or Pimp: The Backhanding from WW (no, I'm serious.)

Planescape is a completely optional setting, and "Pimp: The Backhanding" is a complete joke game. I have no idea why you're even using that latter one as an example of anything; you're essentially complaining about a game they wrote that you can completely ignore to no ill effect (no effect at all, really).

Quote
Furthermore, were you me, you wouldn't be proud of about 2000 pages of notes? You wouldn't be proud of making something from nothing? Sure, I may not be the most humble person in the world, but this is the internet: if I'm not at least a little brash and loud, no one's going to hear me.

Being brash and loud on the Internet is the best way to set yourself for disaster or even commit social suicide if what you wind up bringing to the table does not meet your own self-generated hype.

Lots of notes are good, but that's just a number. That's quantity. If you think quantity is a decent metric of anything (see my prior comments), check out F.A.T.A.L. (seriously, don't check out F.A.T.A.L.) as an example why not.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Blacken on June 16, 2010, 11:32:49 am
Furthermore, were you me, you wouldn't be proud of about 2000 pages of notes? You wouldn't be proud of making something from nothing? Sure, I may not be the most humble person in the world, but this is the internet: if I'm not at least a little brash and loud, no one's going to hear me.
Steve Jobs says one really good thing: "great artists ship." I've written three novels containing a total of almost half a million words. But I don't hype them because I'm not shipping them. Brag after you ship something. Until then, you're Byron Hall. Just food for thought.

EDIT: wrong Hall. Aaron Hall's good people.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 16, 2010, 11:49:13 am
Why haven't you shipped? Are you not confident in your work? And who's bragging? I'm gauging interest in my content to see if it will sell amongst people I respect the opinion of because they hold interests similar to my own. I know not of this Aaron Hall of whom you speak, although I'm aware that my IRL name is just as unimpressive.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 16, 2010, 12:02:55 pm
Pah, don't listen to them. Keeping the work in shadows until it's done yields FATAL results. :) It's always better to get opinions on a work before you ask money for it, to avoid all sorts of problems.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Labs on June 16, 2010, 12:30:04 pm
Looks great. I would buy it when it gets published if I ahd any RL friends who were into this stuff. It seems very ambitious and ambition can easily get out of hand but you seem to have this one by the neck. Keep it up. I'll be watching this.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Blacken on June 16, 2010, 12:35:13 pm
Why haven't you shipped? Are you not confident in your work? And who's bragging? I'm gauging interest in my content to see if it will sell amongst people I respect the opinion of because they hold interests similar to my own. I know not of this Aaron Hall of whom you speak, although I'm aware that my IRL name is just as unimpressive.
Sorry, wrong Hall. Byron Hall. The FATAL guy, who spent more time pimping than developing.

And I haven't shipped them because they're not done. Time constraints. They need polish and editing before I go proclaiming that they're the shit. Not coincidental.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 16, 2010, 12:55:49 pm
@Sean and Labs: Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it greatly.

@Blacken: Does roughly 12 years devving my little homebrew game count toward more time spent developing than pimping? The only reason I released each version to my friends is because they saw what I was working on and demanded to play it, or that I had expanded my content and demanded more. They admitted that it's always been rough in places and that certain things needed to be worked out, but it wasn't horrible, and that was good enough to get it rewritten from me, and that's what I'm doing now. I hope to have it done by Origins 2012, and that may be pushing it, realizing my limitations.

I realize that my game isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, that would be DF, which is why we're all here.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 12:46:23 am
@G-Flex: I'm really not sure how I missed your post earlier. I need to sleep more often, I suppose.

Fundamentals of the game change significantly based on how you're playing it. You can play it in my setting and use the meta-plot and have fun with my story. You can play the game and dungeon crawl and not worry about the meta-plot at all and it works great. You can play it as a 4x/Resource Management/Trading game. You can play it as a Political/Military game. You can mix all of those elements and play them all at once. You can even play by yourself!

A synopsis of my setting is as follows: A high fantasy, magical, colorful world built on top of an ancient civilization that suffered a worldwide total devastation of life somehow. This ancient civ went about ensuring that there was an afterlife, and voted in 10 physical Gods to ensure that a cataclysm would never happen again. The Gods revived the world, and fulfilled their goal by blocking technologies that the world would not be ready to use responsibly. Even the Gods, however, could not keep people from finding what may have been left behind by the first era of mankind.

No, that's not how I wrote it in the book. :P I sped up some of the terminology for those of you familiar with things like the internetz and TvTropes.

As far as it being light/heavy on rules, it's all depending on how a player wants to play. If they want to dungeon crawl, it's pretty light on rules. If they want to craft items, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want to train animals, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want to build a castle or a ship, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want thousands of mercenaries and ownership of land, well...that's pretty rules heavy by necessity. It really panders well to both sides of the base, from what I see, and does so without compromising structural integrity.

The reason I mentioned the lists of features is because I honestly didn't think people would be interested in hearing setting first. My mistake.

Finally, what my game brings to the table: A fluid experience that can cater to the needs of many different gamer-phenotypes all in one book that's easy to pick up and play and inexpensive.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2010, 01:04:00 am
I like the setting. Very much. Actually, as far as settings go, the "classic fantasy with sci-fi elements" setting that you can see in Phantasy Star games (the 3rd and 4th, specifically) is more or less my favorite kind of setting.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 01:19:15 am
The big difference between Phantasy Star and this is that most of the technology that still works hasn't been figured out, and Gnomes regularly make it explode tinkering with it. So, given the right storyteller, you may stumble upon some ridiculous miniature deathtrap device without knowing what it is, only to find out later that it's a food processor. As a rule, I try to get storytellers to play the "Blind Man and Elephant" game when describing relics.

Each Class has its own way of interacting with the world: Humans are bastards who exploit everything and everyone in their path, Mer are playful and carefree, Doppelgangers are cunning and slick (and shapeshifters!), Dwarves are industrious and stodgy and have a whole race of fanboys that they rescued the remnants of early in the setting, Elves are bloodthirsty monsters hell bent on dominating everything (the Elves waged an Elf only war, and the Dark Elves won, so they took over the moniker of Elf,) Halflings are mercantile and studious to the core, Gnomes are exploratory and eccentric, Goblins are tribal, Fae are tricksters and powerful magi, Treefolk (I call them Daemonflowers after the tree they come from, and I really need a new name for them that's more powerful,) are solitary observers and Beastmen are constantly paranoid because they were hunted to near extinction by the Humans.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2010, 01:26:48 am
Nice.

I still can't quite accept calling what are essentially "races", "classes". There's just a very different meaning behind "class". Maybe you can find a better alternative? "Species"? Even "nation" would sound better in more cases than "class", in my opinion.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 01:46:38 am
I know I should change it, but...I don't know. I don't really know what to change it to, and I dislike the word "race" so much. I don't like it to mean anything because people divide themselves so readily into groups over such meaningless things as skin colors. If everyone saw things the way I do...well, I guess they'd just find other reasons to hate each other.

Species doesn't really work in a fantasy game, and Nation would wind up being very politically incorrect, considering that Native Americans group themselves/ourselves into Nations.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2010, 01:49:04 am
Well, there has to be some sort of acceptable middle ground. I think I'll go fire up the thesaurus...

edit:
Quote from: thesaurus.com
   blood, breed, clan, color, cultural  group,  culture, family, folk,  house, issue, kin, kind, kindred, line, lineage, nation, nationality,  offspring, people, progeny, seed, species, stock, strain, tribe, type, variety

See anything usable?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 02:01:31 am
I like lineage, and I think I'm changing it to that.

Edit: SEE! THINGS LIKE THIS ARE WHY I'M TRYING TO GET INPUT! :P I really need to go sleep now.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: G-Flex on June 17, 2010, 02:23:14 am
Fundamentals of the game change significantly based on how you're playing it. You can play it in my setting and use the meta-plot and have fun with my story. You can play the game and dungeon crawl and not worry about the meta-plot at all and it works great. You can play it as a 4x/Resource Management/Trading game. You can play it as a Political/Military game. You can mix all of those elements and play them all at once. You can even play by yourself!


Quote
As far as it being light/heavy on rules, it's all depending on how a player wants to play. If they want to dungeon crawl, it's pretty light on rules. If they want to craft items, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want to train animals, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want to build a castle or a ship, then it gets a bit heavier. If they want thousands of mercenaries and ownership of land, well...that's pretty rules heavy by necessity. It really panders well to both sides of the base, from what I see, and does so without compromising structural integrity.


You described several different genres there, all with different requirements; expecting a single system to cover them all, and adequately, would be extraordinarily difficult.

Quite frankly, it sounds like you don't actually have any particular paradigms in mind for this. Why are certain parts of the game more rules-heavy than others? What sort of operational paradigm are you using there? You need to establish a common foundation for your game. It needs a base. You're essentially telling me differences between aspects of the game without establishing any sort of gameplay/design philosophy paradigms common to the whole project; if you can't establish those, then you do not have a cohesive product.

If anything, it sounds like you're describing multiple different games in the same setting with a few commonalities between them.

Quote
The reason I mentioned the lists of features is because I honestly didn't think people would be interested in hearing setting first. My mistake.

Honestly, it's less the setting and more what the game is actually like, and you haven't seemed to nail that down very much. And as far as setting is concerned, theme and tone are more important than specifics.


I would be willing to give you more the benefit of the doubt if you had a product ready to show, or at least significant portions thereof.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on June 17, 2010, 03:24:23 am
Well, since he intends to earn something off of this, and information is infinitely replicatable at no cost, "showing" the product would somewhat devalue it.

The system he describes is what I aspired to create at one point, albeit in a space-4x environment as a PC game. Never got anywhere with it though.

The key is to use only as many rules as required by the ongoing game. I'll pick a related existing case, IL-2 Sturmovik, the flight simulator. You can toggle each and every realism rule that the simulator can provide, tuning the game to your desires. You can fly in full-arcade mode with invulnerability, but with realistic bullet trajectories and blackouts. Or in full-sim mode with unlimited ammo and fuel. In this system, if I understand it right, it's largely the same.

There may be systems in place for easy logistics of every mentioned level - military, economy, trade, and individual combat and adventure. These systems may be made to mesh together, allowing to only use as much of them as you require. Say, you're an adventurer and you suddenly waltz into a cave and defeat a big guy who turns out to be the leader of a large tribe, which promptly makes you its new leader. You'll be able to keep the individual adventure aspect, but a new system will be layered on top of that should you choose to issue orders to your subordinates. Conversely, you'll be able to omit the adventure aspect and just play by the governing rules, establishing trade routes and dealing with wars on a larger level. A single system encompassing everything is indeed a very big, and very good investment. In a way, Dwarf Fortress will become that someday. Adventurer skills, making an own fort, rising to power... it's all there in dev_next.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Level_8_Mudcrab on June 17, 2010, 03:28:59 am
Looks like you've put alot of work into this, it would be good to see you finish it. I like the stories of the various races and the campaign setting.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 09:30:45 am
@G-Flex: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me to describe, as far as the paradigms goes. Think of the gameplay styles as points on a map that are all connected by roads. If you want to start out at one point, and one point only, you can. You don't have to, however. See, if you want to play a campaign that has elements of each point on the map, you can. The thing is, it's not like Spore, where each time you travel to a new point on the map, the rules change. The rules stay consistent over the whole map. What I've done with the gameplay styles is break down the larger overall game into smaller, more easily understood chunks, whereupon you can reassemble the whole thing and play it all as one game.

You described several different genres there, all with different requirements; expecting a single system to cover them all, and adequately, would be extraordinarily difficult.
Yes, quite difficult. I've been working on this monster off and on for over a decade. ^_^

@Sean: You really nailed it.

@Level-8_Mudcrab: Thanks for your time, I hope to put a little more up soon, as soon as someone tells me what to put up.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: G-Flex on June 17, 2010, 03:29:05 pm
@G-Flex: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me to describe, as far as the paradigms goes. Think of the gameplay styles as points on a map that are all connected by roads. If you want to start out at one point, and one point only, you can. You don't have to, however. See, if you want to play a campaign that has elements of each point on the map, you can. The thing is, it's not like Spore, where each time you travel to a new point on the map, the rules change. The rules stay consistent over the whole map. What I've done with the gameplay styles is break down the larger overall game into smaller, more easily understood chunks, whereupon you can reassemble the whole thing and play it all as one game.

Again, I understand that you can have a game with different sub-systems of sorts for handling very different gameplay scenarios. But the whole thing needs to have a common foundation (besides just the dry facts of the setting) and gaming philosphy behind it, and I'm not sure what yours is here.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 17, 2010, 04:51:56 pm
Still not quite sure what you're looking for, G-Flex, as far as foundations and paradigms and gaming philosophy goes. Either those are all very vague things, or I'm just not getting what you're asking for.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Robsoie on June 18, 2010, 01:46:46 pm
Back in the eighties, when i was young and practiced many "paper" RPG, we often wrote our own expansions, as the various expanding and campaign sets were not that cheap in that time.

But it got our interest so much that we decided to write our own system that would fit our needs and our own background and universe setup to fit our visions.
It never went out of my friend circle but we enjoyed playing it.

The most important things i learned were :
-making a system that flow naturally for the players, even if it is complex or simple, the system must never be a pain to use for the player, the game master having already the bulk of the work, adding unecessary pauses to check dozen of tables, find the sub-rules is adding annoyances.

-more important than the game system is the background and universe.
That's what really makes all the difference between a setup that will interest the players, and will catch the game master inspiration to build his campaigns.
Making an universe that is too generic will not work, you need to focus on what will make it apart from the usual mainstream definition of your rpg genre (scifi/medieval/fantasy/horror/etc...)

But in the end it is a very interesting experience, every successfull "paper" RPG developers began like this, building their own system and worlds.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 18, 2010, 08:03:27 pm
That's pretty much how it started.
-I pride myself on my game's ability to flow freely.
-I'm pretty sure I have a good background. I really like the setting, anyway.


Making an universe that is too generic will not work, you need to focus on what will make it apart from the usual mainstream definition of your rpg genre (scifi/medieval/fantasy/horror/etc...)
Wait, what about GURPS?

Ah, I'm just messin' with you. Thank you for your input. Every piece of input I gather here is very valuable, and I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Daywalkah on July 14, 2010, 10:38:32 pm
This project looks awesome. I am mainly posting to keep track of this thread, since I never really look at this part of the forum.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 14, 2010, 10:48:00 pm
Wow, I didn't think anyone was still interested. Thank you for your interest. I only work on it bits and pieces at a time (new job, looking for a house, married with a young child, addiction to DF...time is at a premium.)

If anyone has any further input, I'd be glad to hear it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Vertigon on July 15, 2010, 01:58:22 pm

Purifying a unit of raw material requires 10 Manna and 1 hour, per level of purification.
Example: Purifying a material for the third time consumes 30 Manna and 3 hours.

Successfully purifying a unit of raw material modifies it to a state above normal.
Example: A unit of unpurified bronze would make a longsword with a power of 4. A unit of once purified bronze would make a longsword with a power of 5. That same unit of bronze, purified twice, would produce a longsword with a power of 6.

Alchemical purification has a different difficulty for each type of material. Alchemy can be performed up to three times on any one piece of material.

Purification is seen by all as extremely beneficial, however, it can be excessively expensive. Purified materials, however, sell for

Oh hell yes. I have to mod this into mah DF.

EDIT: Ontopic, I really think this is awesome. Keep at it, OP.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 15, 2010, 04:17:21 pm
Lemme know how that goes. I may need that for mine. I'm glad you like the idea. ^_^
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Chaoswizkid on July 26, 2010, 02:46:20 am
Well, I can't offer very much input on what little I've seen, but it sounds like you've got something with great potential on your hands. I look forward to seeing how this turns out and eventually hearing about it in the future.

This thread is kind of inspiring for myself, because online friends of mine and myself have been working on a roleplaying world for about 3 years now with the end objective being an MMO Forum-RP. Reading this has given me thought to also ask Bay12 for advice on our project.

I'll try and revisit this when you perhaps put out a little bit more information so I can give some advice on it.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 26, 2010, 08:54:37 am
Oh, hey, cool stuff.

Project is currently on hiatus (again) as I have a brand new job, a small child to take care of, and am looking for a house so I can have someplace to relax and get work on this done. Maybe someday it'll see the light of day.

Did anyone have any specific questions otherwise?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 26, 2010, 10:21:52 pm
Status Update:
Sections of the game:

Lineages:15/15 completed

Occupations: This is a freeform part of the game. Player can pick whatever they want, but I'd like to give examples. I currently have 4, and I don't think that's enough.

Proficiencies: 4/47 Completely done. Carpentry and Cooking just need descriptive paragraphs to be completed.

Magic: This section is kind of further on the back burner than everything else for the moment. Most of the work is fluff and balancing. Fire, Water and Necromancy are rules-complete, but have no descriptors.
1/100 Blessings finished, 52/100 Curses finished. Need to rework Enchanting, but I will do that when I get to the Proficiency for it.

Combat system needs fluff and instructions.

Equipment: 12/28 Swords finished. No other equipment even started yet, aside from templates. Templates for customizing all equipment are started, but need to be fleshed out. Other goods and services also templated out, but need filling in. (See a pattern here?)

Materials: Templates, templates, templates. I have one finished.

Player-built Buildings, Traps, Ships, other vehicles: I just need to convert from notes and add fluff.

Meta-Plot: Gonna do this part last.

Gods/Nobles/Favor: Idea is mapped out, but needs to be completed and balanced. Repeste (God of Death) will be finished when I figure out his spell and favor demands.

Monsters: 1/100 completely finished. More templates (and how. 990 left to fill in, but that's just numbers. 99 more monster fluff pieces to write, too.)

Humanoid Enemies: Not started. Need a better title for this part.

Animals: 100 templates to fill, and one or two sentence pieces of fluff to do. Probably going to enlist my favorite PetCo employee to help me with this. I don't want him smacking me for putting animals in the wrong order on the food chain. He's 6'3", 300 lbs.

The "Your own world" section: Not really started, but it's almost all advice on worldgenning for n00bz.

Character evolution: Not really started. Want to have at least one evo per Lineage, but I'm just not there yet.

Other Playstyles: Not started yet, mostly converting notes.

Explicit consent to modify the game and legal stuff: Not started yet.

Edit (because I forgot): After all of this gets done, I'll be illustrating. I don't want to do a whole crapton of pictures to keep my indie developing costs down, but if something is absolutely necessary (or there's a large outcry for it) I'll draw it up. I'm probably going to dedicate at least 4 full pages to equipment, because there's so much of it, and I want to do a plain vs fully customized version of each really popular piece of equipment (like the katana and the falchion.) Each lineage, of course, is going to get an illustration or four, too, but I kinda want to wait until I have some character models done for them.

So, thoughts, questions, concerns, flames, offers of money (yeah, right.), comments?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on July 27, 2010, 03:04:11 am
It looks very good, though I would agree that only four examples of occupations would not be enough.

You might also want to include a blank character sheet and a few example characters.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 27, 2010, 09:49:29 am
Sorry. Character sheet's been done for so long that I actually forgot about it. Example characters sound like a good idea. I have one that we go through step-by-step for building a character, but I can expand on that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 12:16:01 pm
Speaking of the character sheet, it's here: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/neo-dreams-character-sheet

The top part is a mess, but I'm in the middle of rearranging it so it looks more professional. Any ideas, folks?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on July 30, 2010, 12:21:53 pm
The only thing I can think of is to make it more tabular - give the players boxes to write in instead of open space, and it'll look a lot better once it's filled out.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 12:34:23 pm
Edit: For the heck of it, I decided to go with this.

Here's the reorganized version (no boxes): http://pdfcast.org/pdf/neo-dreams-character-sheet
With boxes: http://pdfcast.org/pdf/neo-dreams-character-sheet-w-boxes
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 30, 2010, 01:39:29 pm
Mt. Kebab doesn't have an interesting summit (if you don't count that it looks like a jumping dolphin with a fez), but is actually decently difficult. It has a long stretch of overhanging cliff with odd bits that make it somewhat hard to climb.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 01:44:47 pm
Uh, wrong thread? o.O
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Omegastick on July 30, 2010, 05:43:40 pm
Mt. Kebab doesn't have an interesting summit (if you don't count that it looks like a jumping dolphin with a fez), but is actually decently difficult. It has a long stretch of overhanging cliff with odd bits that make it somewhat hard to climb.
Sig'd
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 31, 2010, 01:42:41 am
Uh, wrong thread? o.O
Haha, yeah. I kinda wondered where that post went. Should probably repost it where it belongs. :)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 31, 2010, 10:31:12 pm
So, what does everyone think of the new charsheets? I know that without the data that actually fills in those spaces, it's all meaningless, but I just want input on the layout.


...anyone?

are you still there?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 01, 2010, 12:50:59 am
They're nice, I guess. Fairly simple and straightfoward. Only thing I think is wrong is the amount of space dedicated to equipment - it kinda looks like you don't expect the players to carry much besides their combat gear.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 01, 2010, 07:38:44 am
Players can own buildings to store stuff, as well as carts, wagons, and even ships to haul stuff. Also, I ran out of paper, and wanted to keep it on one sheet.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: maxicaxi on August 04, 2010, 01:29:52 am
Just make a front and back side  :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 04, 2010, 11:46:31 am
Not everyone can do 2 sided/duplex printing. :P

I just wanted it easy to slap in a copier and go. Besides, if anyone has any notes or whatever, the whole back of the sheet is free. ^_^
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 04, 2010, 12:54:45 pm
Meaning the notes section of the main thing can go?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 04, 2010, 01:06:58 pm
It could, I guess, but some people are freaks about that. I have some players that write all over their sheets and some that keep notebooks. *shrug* Use it or not, it's really personal opinion.
Title: .
Post by: Yannanth on August 04, 2010, 02:25:30 pm
.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on August 04, 2010, 03:45:07 pm
So to keep a newcomer's interest (again, this is a new topic to get off the other one), a quick-play guide has to be made which may empower one with a reasonable understanding of the game in say, under 10 minutes. Allow up to a maximum of that considering the game would take about 10 more minutes to set up; and that was my proposition -  make games less open-ended to make the easier to play. Although choice of spells could be removed, greater detail could go into balancing them and what-not.

Asking that any RPG be understandable in 10 minutes or less is asking something of an impossibility. I could maybe explain to someone familiar with the genre how to play D&D4e (a fairly simple example) in that much time, but even then that's going to involve a lot of looking up rules as the game moves on. I'd argue that there are a lot of board games, even, that take longer than 10 minutes to explain--Power Grid and Puerto Rico, for instance, are simple concepts but relatively complex implementations.

Simplicity is certainly a good design goal, I'll agree with you there. My first foray into RPG design may be unsalvageable because I equated having lots of numbers which don't change often with simplicity, which is patently false (and something I'm trying to solve with the next revision). The modularity of MaximumZero's system might help out in that regard, but I haven't really read this thread in enough detail to say anything one way or another.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 04, 2010, 04:10:47 pm
The biggest thing to remember is that not everyone will want to command armies, or run a shop or guild, or build boats, or cast spells, or even fight. One of my favorite campaigns to run was a debt-based plot, where the players all teamed up to eventually overcome a political plot to keep people as wage slaves, and they did so by running a massive trade operation, smuggling contraband goods to foreign powers. This type of game may suit players like Yannath a little more than others.

If you are running a dungeon crawl with experienced players, then you could pick up the game and go in the time it takes to create a character (about 20 minutes.) If you're starting from scratch, it may be in your best interest to explore what type of game the players are expecting, and craft the beginning of the story around that, which will probably take a considerably larger amount of time.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Psyco Jelly on August 04, 2010, 08:33:49 pm
I wish I could offer an opinion, but my RPG experience is limited to Call of Cthulhu and Dungeons and Dragons (3.5 and 4th editions). It looks interesting, but until I know how easy it is on the player end I wouldn't want to buy it. I'm fine with there being complex rules, but not if those rules bog down the gameplay by forcing the GM to sort through the rulebook.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 04, 2010, 08:46:32 pm
@Psyco Jelly (I so wanted to reflexively put an h in your name...)
A) Is there anything in particular you're looking at being too complicated?
B) I plan on marking sections in the book when I print (color coded page edges, like tabs)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: maxicaxi on August 05, 2010, 02:51:26 am
Not everyone can do 2 sided/duplex printing. :P

I just wanted it easy to slap in a copier and go. Besides, if anyone has any notes or whatever, the whole back of the sheet is free. ^_^

you just take the paper and put it into the printer again facing the other way :o
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 05, 2010, 07:53:07 am
Not everyone can do 2 sided/duplex printing. :P

I just wanted it easy to slap in a copier and go. Besides, if anyone has any notes or whatever, the whole back of the sheet is free. ^_^

you just take the paper and put it into the printer again facing the other way :o

I know, I'm a sales rep for HP. Some people don't like to do that, though. Mostly because they don't have instant dry ink and they want it NOW, and then it screws up the first side of their page. That's neither here nor there, though.

The goal with the one sided char sheet was to be able to take the book up to the library or Walgreen's or slap it in your home copier, run off 10 or so, and be ready to go. I remember having to make 40 copies to play D&Dv3 once (I used to run with a large group of nerds), because they didn't have a condensed charsheet at the time, and I didn't have a printer.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on August 05, 2010, 09:01:37 am
Real men roll their own character sheets on graph paper. :P

Well, I do, anyway. It's rare that I and game designers have the same idea about what should be front and center on the sheet.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 05, 2010, 01:00:45 pm
I do that a lot, too. Have you taken a look at my character sheets? I posted them not too long ago. If so, what do you think?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on August 05, 2010, 05:32:12 pm
I do that a lot, too. Have you taken a look at my character sheets? I posted them not too long ago. If so, what do you think?

Certainly much cleaner than the ones I come up with, almost to the point of looking like there's not enough there. If that's all you need to play, then I congratulate you on coming up with a simpler system than I seem to be able to. :P

One of the things the people I've had playtest for me have universally liked was that the second page of my character sheet was a cheat sheet for the blanks on the first page, with cross-references to the pages on which concepts were initially described. It's the sort of innovation I think should be encouraged, especially for people who are unfamiliar with a system--it really cuts down on the time spent shuffling back and forth trying to find a particular rule.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 06, 2010, 08:26:50 am
Certainly much cleaner than the ones I come up with, almost to the point of looking like there's not enough there. If that's all you need to play, then I congratulate you on coming up with a simpler system than I seem to be able to. :P

The character sheet is a little heavier than I would like, but that's everything you need (aside from dice and a pencil.)

One of the things the people I've had playtest for me have universally liked was that the second page of my character sheet was a cheat sheet for the blanks on the first page, with cross-references to the pages on which concepts were initially described. It's the sort of innovation I think should be encouraged, especially for people who are unfamiliar with a system--it really cuts down on the time spent shuffling back and forth trying to find a particular rule.

That's a pretty cool idea. I have what I call the "Bare Bones" ruleset toward the front of the book that's half index, half recap of the rules.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Zaerosz on August 09, 2010, 03:49:50 am
If I were to play this, I would most likely end up running a city powered by hamster wheels with gremlins in them. Would that be possible, perhaps?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 09, 2010, 08:40:11 am
The Gremlins on hamster wheels idea is funny, but what would you need powered? The campaigns I run are set in a pseudo-Renaissance era, pre electricity.

Failing that, you could play in an "Ancient Ruins", which would probably have leftover pieces of a power grid.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Zaerosz on August 10, 2010, 04:37:41 am
...aww, no power? Damn.

Well, I could use them to prep the siege engines for firing. Like a bowstring, except on a catapult/ballista/whatever, and pulled back by gremlins on a hamster wheel, and this is a really bad analogy, isn't it?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 10, 2010, 10:34:32 am
Better yet, mod the ballistae seats to have actual chairs mounted on slides. Sit the gremlins in the chairs and shoot them out of the ballistae.

This has actually been done in game.

I also had a necromancer who raised an army of skeletal hamsters and annihilated an entire continent with them. By the end of the campaign, he was controlling well over a million hamsters, right up until he attempted a TPK, when one of the other players used a "Secret ability" to destroy the entire group by turning his body into a black hole. This is something he came up with on the fly, consulted me about, and honestly thought he would never use.

...That campaign was so much fun to GM for. ^_^
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on August 17, 2010, 08:36:03 am
Any hope of another status update?

I wouldn't want to pester you too much about it, but I'm rather eager to see how it all turns out.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 17, 2010, 04:37:07 pm
Haven't really done anything on it in a little while. New job. Also, haven't really been inspired to write.

Is there anything that you're hoping to see, though? Whenever someone wants to see something in particular, that usually pushes me into getting it done.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on August 17, 2010, 05:15:24 pm
If there was one thing that I would be particularly interested in, it would be the different types of equipment available. Namely the unusual mundane equipment (for example, DnD has things like caltrops).

But I don't want to pressure you to do it, though.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on August 17, 2010, 06:22:41 pm
I'd second that. The fancy equipment is all well and good, but I'm a huge fan of creative solutions with limited materials.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 17, 2010, 10:05:32 pm
Short Swords:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Long Swords:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Great Swords:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hammers:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Axes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Chain, Whip and Soft:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Scythes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Knives:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Staves and Clubs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spears and Polearms:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Misc.:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Crossbows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Other Fired:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ammo:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thrown:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armor:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shields:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Headgear:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Handgear:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Footwear:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Clothing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
All items can be made of 100 different types of materials, and are fully customizable. Glass caltrops or arrowheads filled with acid or liquid flame? Doable. Porcelain sword? Doable. Llamellar/lacquered armor? Doable. Stained glass or bone crown? Doable. Rose petal clothes? Doable.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on August 18, 2010, 03:37:17 am
You can use a yo-yo as a weapon.

That is awesome.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 18, 2010, 10:00:06 am
Well, the yo-yo initially was a weapon, as dreamt up by the Filipino Police Force (as far as I am aware) around 1200. Easily concealed and easy to use quick, targeted, nonlethal strikes. Historically made of petrified wood.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MrWiggles on August 20, 2010, 08:06:50 am
So, what does everyone think of the new charsheets? I know that without the data that actually fills in those spaces, it's all meaningless, but I just want input on the layout.


...anyone?

are you still there?

Character sheet are suppose to do three things: Present information in a digestible format in preference toward the most used information. Help character fill out this information. Look presentable, and fetching. (As most end users will know your game by its character sheet, it being the second to first more looked at things for the game.)

Among these three design goals, you have design characteristics to keep in mind; such as using space efficiently (Double whammy fail. You do so by fitting everything on one sheet, but you leave fair bits of unused bits in the box format), giving reasonable room for estimated printing sizes for recording the information. (This is hard to judge as the character sheet doesnt hint at how much data there is to record, but inventory list is painfully small and weird.), encouraging end users to keep to information to the row and column separation. (This is so to encourage players from ruining their own character sheet with their scribbles.) ect...

From this it seems like you never taken a graphic design course, or looked at other character sheets and see how the information is broken down and why.

Also, this character sheet doesn't hint at any of the other game modes you've claim to have with yer system. This character sheet would be barely useful for a dungeon crawl. It doesn't have information for the other game modes. Or it doesn't seem to. Are all the game modes ran from this single character sheet?

You character sheet fails almost all accounts. Quite horribly, there are no redeeming factors, and warrants starting anew.

Also, from an earlier bit of thread:

Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on August 20, 2010, 09:54:52 am
Quote
...
The game can be played and was ment to played with just the one book.
...
FATAL
...

I dispute this. FATAL is unplayable no matter what number of books you have.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 20, 2010, 12:51:25 pm
So, we've gathered that MrWiggles doesn't like my game's charsheet because I'm not a graphic designer.
Quote
...
The game can be played and was ment to played with just the one book.
...
FATAL
...

I dispute this. FATAL is unplayable no matter what number of books you have.

I agree.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on August 22, 2010, 02:46:39 pm
I can try to make a more appealing-looking character sheet. First though, what kind of design do you want? Do you want a simple-but-appealing single page sheet, like this (http://download.white-wolf.com/download/download.php?file_id=869) Changeling one? Or do you want a multi-page sheet that conveys all the information in separate sections, like this (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD_charactersheet.zip) D&D one?

Also, you said it's High Fantasy. Do you want the sheet to reflect that? And if so, what kind of visual design do you want for it? What I mean by this is it can have a dragon motif or a magic motif or a castle motif or a combination of the three or whatever.

Finally, character portrait box, yay or nay?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 22, 2010, 09:22:09 pm
What I was really looking for was something that is clean looking, one page, easy to read, and fairly minimalist in design. The logo that I'm going to use for the cover of my book is going to be a 10 pointed twist style star in silver on black. If you're curious to see what I mean by that, look at the photo share thread. My tattoo is in it.

Nay on the portrait box. Not everyone likes to draw, and if they do, the back of the sheet is blank.

I really appreciate the offer! ^_^
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on August 23, 2010, 04:02:33 pm
Well, since you said "logo" and since a character sheet has to have a logo, I started making it.

So, here's a possible logo. I can change the font and the placement and the color and all that stuff if you want.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 23, 2010, 04:09:35 pm
That's extremely cool. I should have a new pic up Saturday with my finished tattoo, and maybe you could modify from there. (I have a specific shading that I want done on the star, and I don't really know how to describe it.)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on August 23, 2010, 04:23:21 pm
Glad you like it! The tat has given me inspiration for the overall look of the sheet, so I'll get started on that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 23, 2010, 04:33:19 pm
Schweet, I can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on August 23, 2010, 07:34:54 pm
What's more important in this game, combat or roleplaying? I'm just wondering where on the page I should put the stuff, as typically the more important things go near the top.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 23, 2010, 08:12:14 pm
Unfortunately, that really all depends on the mode of play you start out in. For dungeon crawls (which I suspect most stories will start as,) it's combat.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on September 25, 2010, 12:19:23 am
Hey, I finished the character sheet. You can find the pdf here: http://drop.io/Mr_Ham97/asset/neo-dreams-character-sheet-pdf

In addition, here's a logo for the game. It's extremely high res, so that's why I'm linking it instead of just posting it. http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/319/neodreamslogo.png

Any feedback would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on September 25, 2010, 06:40:30 am
Looks very nice.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 25, 2010, 09:05:00 am
Daemonflower changed to Jotunn. I much prefer that name.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Jack_Bread on September 25, 2010, 10:40:55 pm
Wow. I like how this is going. Can't wait to see the finished project! :D
By the way, I'd looooove to beta this thing. I'll PM you some details. :)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 25, 2010, 10:48:49 pm
Everyone is free to IM me if you see that I'm online.
<-- Links are over there. Well, under that. Anyway, you should know where they are by now.

Wow. I like how this is going. Can't wait to see the finished project! :D
By the way, I'd looooove to beta this thing. I'll PM you some details. :)
The more, the merrier, I say. Don't hold your breath on a finished project, though. I hope to have it done by early 2012, and I have a wife, a 2 year old, three jobs, and college to contend with in the meantime.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Arceius on September 26, 2010, 03:19:55 pm
This all sounds very well and good but you're posts have yet to reveal anything about the actual game, save for a small part where you mentions defenses and accuracy and whatnot. This is the part that really interests me about a game, I want to know how the mechanics work, or at least a general overview of whats up.

For instance, the description I would give my P&P RPG, Dawn Star, would be thus:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This tells me a good deal about the game, even though I don't know the specifics. It tells me all of the important features that make the game unique (or that stand out) and introduces the setting. From this basic overview people can get a grasp on the basic idea and then ask questions about features they want to know more about ("What do you mean, 'Dynamic Growth Curve'?).

Anyways, I'd really like to learn more about your game, in the terms of the mechanics, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2010, 03:49:15 pm
Neo Dreams is a fairly traditional fantasy RPG set in Awarshin, which is a planet made from the consciousness of an elder being who escaped his own reality and trapped himself in a bubble outside said reality. During the first Era of Civilization, technology was unchecked, leading to a Great Cataclysm which utterly annihilated every living thing on the planet. So, humanity convened in the afterlife, elected gods, and reclaimed the planet after several millenia of waiting for the planet to heal itself. Present day Awarshin (as presented in game,) is a conglomerate of pre-Renaissance technology, high fantasy creatures and monsters, magic, and semi-functioning "Relics" from the first Era.

Players are able to craft anything from raw materials, from pots and pans to enchanted tattoos to legendary enchanted blessed weapons to ships and castles.

Players advance through using Proficiencies, finding treasure, completing quests for your God/Goddess/Nobles to earn Favor, or defeating high level monsters and enemies. There are no levels, and there are no classes.

Players are not limited to controlling one adventurer. It is simple for a GM to make a campaign which may include: control over armies or fleets of ships, the ability to rent out properties, the ability to own a shop and simply make goods for sale, or any number of combinations of the above. Gameplay between "modes" is seamless, and simple to navigate.

The entire system is crafted with a simple goal in mind: Being able to tell a story that is interesting for both players and GMs, without being overly complicated or heavily reliant on mathematics. The game is easily picked up by children as young as 8 years of age (I haven't tested any lower), and can be scaled to meet the needs of the most hardcore munchkins.

I hope that answers some questions. Also, yes, I'm interested. What do you mean, Dynamic Growth Curve?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Arceius on September 26, 2010, 05:32:18 pm
LOL, I honestly should have seen that coming. Thank you for answering my question, that was exactly what I was looking for. Most of that could have been extrapolated from what you've said in the past, but I've had ridiculous miss communications train wrecks in the past, so I always want to hear it straight up.

I think I may have misrepresented it with the words I used but; "dynamic growth curve" is what comes to mind when I think of it. Basically, you gain experience (hooray for originality!) as you preform tasks and learn new things. However, instead of reaching a certain point where you (I'll use D&D terms) get more Feats, Abilities, and Powers - each of these will "level" on their own. That is, each one has their own path, "feats, abilities, and powers," that reach a higher level of power as you gain experience... that's really confusing. I'll use an example instead.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Each one "levels" at a different rate.

The reason I use the term "dynamic" is because there are a lot of factors that can change it. First off your characters "Foundation" (this is synonymous with a "class" and is a representation of what sort of innate abilities a person has) changes how these different things progress. Secondly there is a "Power Maintenance" (I don't have a name for it yet, you're a lot farther in dev than I am. I'm not even to Alpha.) which is a system for keeping, maintaining, and gaining new abilities. If you don't keep an ability or function "maintained' then it looses functionality (you can still  use it, it's just not as good). This is a representation of honing the skills you have, if you stop then your not as good at it, though you never really forget how to ride a bike. The way this effects the growth curve is that if you maintain a lot of abilities in order to gain their special benefits, then it takes longer for you to reach the next Ability Plateau (I'm using plateau in place of "level").

That answer your question satisfactorily?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2010, 06:16:06 pm
Indeedy.

Edit: Also, my proficiencies work exactly like that, except it's all increments of 100. 100 successes in a Proficiency nets you a new bonus, up to 1,000, whereupon you master said Proficiency, and get a horribly, but purposely, broken bonus.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Arceius on September 26, 2010, 08:08:52 pm
The amount of work for each "level" doesn't increase at all?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on September 26, 2010, 08:48:43 pm
HEY, I didn't create the design of your avatar, you did. I just made an svg from a reference picture.

I'm working on an e-mail I'll send you regarding my suggestions for the beta, and hopefully I'll get possible cover art done soon. I'm personally a fan of simple, clean cover art (see this (http://www.iguk.co.uk/ProductImages2/8274.jpg) Paranoia Limited Edition cover), but I'm not really an artist so that's all I really can do at the moment. If you really don't like something like that then tell me so I don't waste effort.

Anyway, just posting this publicly to say that the game looks great and if it were more complete I would probably be playing a test adventure right now.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2010, 09:46:11 pm
The amount of work for each "level" doesn't increase at all?

No need. See, some of the requisites to do certain things are beyond a n00b'z skill level, and that goads higher level players into taking chances with their skill. See, no one but the most dedicated munchkin is going to make 1,000 tin daggers to get to mastery. Once they see exactly what they can do, "Oh, hey I can make Katanas now, even though I only have a 50% chance," they'll try to reach out and grab that thing they can do now.

After all, would you rather summon generic zombies, or twist the flesh of living beings into nightmarish forms? Would you rather heal a few HP, or raise the dead and overcharge their health? Summon a fireball, or the Phoenix? Make that tin dagger, or a flaming vampiric Orichalcum flamberge? Train a hamster, or a lion? You get the point.

Mr_Ham97, was there anything you saw in particular that you'd like to point out to people? Anything that really got you excited? Also, for the cover, all I'd really want is the logo over a black cracked/weathered leather background. Plain black would be fine, though.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Arceius on September 26, 2010, 10:05:24 pm
You can gain mastery over a skill set just by making a rudimentary weapon over and over? Shouldn't you need to craft more than just daggers to reach that level of skill?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 26, 2010, 10:07:18 pm
I suppose I could put a minimum difficulty cap on Proficiency checks over a certain amount. *chin rub*
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on September 27, 2010, 12:24:03 am
Honestly I'm a huge sucker for crafting and the sheer amount of materials and items you have makes me really want to play. Seriously, there are more polearms listed here than in AD&D.

Actually silver on a leathery cover is exactly what I had in mind.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 30, 2010, 06:02:33 pm
Currently working on the combat section, just so everyone knows.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Arceius on September 30, 2010, 06:29:23 pm
I'm curious now. How does the casting work exactly, and how does it mesh with the rest of the combat?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 30, 2010, 06:35:23 pm
Spell casting is an instantaneous effect on your opponent, ala an anime-ish energy blast. You pick a spell to cast, cast it on your opponent, and either they resist or the effect happens.

Example: A casts Scorch on B. A spends 5 Manna to cast the spell, either way.
A rolls Magic+Concentration+1d10
B rolls Magic+Willpower+1d10

If A's number is higher than B's, then B takes 2d10 damage (unless it's modified by Elemental Affinity or Weakness of either person, but that's not really important ATM.)

If B's number is higher than A's, then the spell fails outright. (Unless A is highly trained in using the Proficiency for Elemental Magic, but again, not important for this example.)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on October 01, 2010, 03:09:59 am
This looks pretty interesting. I'm looking forward to this, although I hope you release some of the rules sometime so that it can be played sometime before the world ends.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 01, 2010, 08:33:33 am
Mr_Ham97 and Jack_Bread are currently looking them over to kinda nudge me in the right direction when I get some free time.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: glitchpop on October 03, 2010, 08:24:18 pm
Have you heard of Burning Wheel? http://www.burningwheel.org/
The Forge? http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forge/index.php
or Storygames? http://www.story-games.com/forums/

All these places are full of people playing and making P&P rpgs, many of them are pretty outside-the-box.

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 03, 2010, 08:53:24 pm
I've been reading The Forge off and on for years. Never really thought that this thing would get off the ground as a salable game until I was prodded into it by my friends last year. When five people come to you with the same idea, independently, it's probably relevant in some way.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on October 04, 2010, 09:13:42 pm
May I ask about damage mechanics?
For example, if I attack an opponent with a halberd, can I target a specific body part? Can I choose whether to stab or slash, and would that difference have any effect?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 04, 2010, 09:24:34 pm
It's unfortunately not so in depth as that. There's no locational damage to keep combat from getting too heavy. Certain weapons get a bonus to certain types of armor, and special abilities.

Example: Halberds have a power of 8 (meaning they do 8+1d10+melee attack stat damage), get a 2 point bonus to damage versus leather armor, and have the ability to be set into a defensive stance (meaning that any opponent that attacks you takes damage equal to a normal strike upon a miss, and your defense is set to double for the rest of the combat round, but you cannot attack.)

They are very expensive, at about double the cost of an average Arming Sword.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on October 05, 2010, 11:15:28 pm
Here's a modification of the logo that I can hopefully turn into the book cover using magic.

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6781/neodreamslogoonleather.th.jpg) (http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6781/neodreamslogoonleather.jpg)

What do y'all think?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on October 06, 2010, 09:35:47 am
'Tis shiny and delicious, Mr. Ham
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 14, 2010, 12:26:05 am
Almost finished with combat. All I have to do now is flesh out the options a bit, and write the section on death and dying, and it'll be done. I'd finish it out now, but I have school in the morning.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on October 14, 2010, 12:34:07 am
As far as death goes, will there be any resurrection or the like?

In other "news", hopefully I can get a cover done this weekend but I have midterms on Monday and Tuesday so it might not happen.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 14, 2010, 07:11:53 am
Four different spells for Rez, and the option to turn dead players into Undead players (so long as they agree). On top of that, if you experience a TPK, you can still play! See, you get to play in the afterlife.

Also, my midterms are all next week, as well.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on October 14, 2010, 07:49:30 am
How easy is it to get rezzed?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 14, 2010, 08:09:15 am
Depends on how advanced the group is. If you have a master healer, priest, miracle worker, or necromancer, then it's not hard. If not, you have to find a big city with a big temple or mage's guild, and pay a substantial fee. You can also spend favor with your chosen God/Goddess to have them bring you back.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on October 20, 2010, 08:48:05 am
Wow, this looks really interesting. I have a gaming group that meets regularly, I'd love to try this out on them and see what they think.

Mr_Ham, would you mind too much if I took a stab at creating a front-and-back cover mockup?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 20, 2010, 08:57:11 am
The game is...very incomplete at the moment. I have tests today that I had to study for. I'll be taking a stab at finishing up combat tonight, now that I can relax a little bit. I should also have the rest of the week off of work, so there's that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ousire on October 22, 2010, 11:19:08 pm
i used to play DF all the time, but after a while i got tired of the game and stopped reading these forums. today i just popped on to see if anything interesting was here while one of my normal forum haunts is down.

threads like THIS is why i really need to get back on these forums. i love RPG games, especialy ones that are way more homebrew style, and from what i've read this one is pretty amazing so far! i really want to be able to read more about this world and the mechanics, even if the book is really unfinished so far! i'm bookmarking this thread and looking back frequently
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 22, 2010, 11:27:40 pm
As of right now, like, this very minute, Combat is composed of 1,918 words, and is completed to the best of my ability.

Thank you for the kind words, ousire, and once it's in a little bit more of a presentable state, I may open it up for more people to look at. Right now, it's quite the mess.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: magistrate101 on October 25, 2010, 12:28:33 am
Seems a bit like a mixture of D&D, WoW, LotRO, and DF :P
an RPG that you could just completely write yourself over and over again after buying it once, makes the $25-30 a lil' less worth it
and last, I am a computer nerd, and get confuzzled easily by manuals :D

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All in all, I would like a rough draft of the manual before I even think of trying it!

[edit for grammar and clarity]
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on October 25, 2010, 01:20:32 pm
Wow, this looks really interesting. I have a gaming group that meets regularly, I'd love to try this out on them and see what they think.

Mr_Ham, would you mind too much if I took a stab at creating a front-and-back cover mockup?

No, I don't mind.

Also I realized that that leather texture isn't free for commercial use so I have to use a different one. It kinda sucks compared to the other one though (I don't think it's gritty and primitive enough), so if somebody could find a good one that is free for commercial use I would be very happy and would probably bake a digital cookie for you.

Here's the link to the one with the new leather texture. (http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6781/neodreamslogoonleather.jpg)

That being said I can probably make a cover mockup right now so keep your eyes peeled I guess.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 25, 2010, 01:40:28 pm
Link is broken for me, ser.

Edit: That may be the computer I'm on. I'll check it later.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Mr_Ham97 on October 25, 2010, 01:53:19 pm
Does this image work?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

also do you read ASoIaF because I've seen you use "ser" several times now
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 25, 2010, 04:35:36 pm
Yes, that works. Awesomely. And no, I haven't, though I'd like to (thanks, Google!). I got it from Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Diakron on December 02, 2010, 02:46:02 pm
If you ever want some test players, I'm an experienced DnD 3.5 DM with years of play under my belt.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on December 02, 2010, 03:08:25 pm
Thanks for the offer, and the interest. I'm not currently looking for any players yet, but I'll keep your name on the list for when it's time.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 18, 2011, 10:13:34 pm
Update!

I have all 100 curses done! Some of my favorites:

10)   This item squeaks quietly whenever you take a step, despite any attempts to silence it.

15)   This item summons an obnoxious, uncontrollable penguin which is enamored with you and despises all other members of your character’s party.

44)   There is something fishy about this item.
If held: The curse takes effect upon each drawing from a scabbard. There is a 50% chance that it will be a silver Bastard Sword that deals 2D10 extra damage because it is enchanted with the element of water. There is also a 50% chance that it will be a large halibut instead of a weapon, (Halibut have an attack power of 0.) This effect continues until either the end of three rounds or combat has ceased, whereupon the weapon disintegrates, and re-appears in the sheath. The weapon may not be re-sheathed or dropped before this effect wears off.
If worn: Upon wearing this item, the normal material turns to fish scales and it rots away to nothing over the next day. The armor in question has a power of 0.

82)   If held: For each round of combat this weapon is held, roll 1D10. If a 1 is rolled, this weapon attacks you for your normal damage with the weapon. Otherwise, the weapon has a power of -10.
If worn: For each round of combat this item is worn, roll 1D10. If a 1 is rolled, this item turns into a mass of suckered tentacles, and attempts to smother you. It fails to do any damage to you, however, you lose your action, and your defensive scores are all 0 for the remainder of the round.

96)   This item summons a large, angry, hostile Black Dragon to your location. Said Dragon is fixated on destroying your character.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Samthere on May 19, 2011, 05:35:57 am
15: AWESOME.

It'd be nice if the fish still did SOME damage (does attack power override or complement a player's attributes?) so that you could get fish kills :D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 19, 2011, 06:57:22 pm
Attack power of a weapon is complimentary to the character's skill. So, yes, you could beat someone to death with a fish.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on May 20, 2011, 05:33:34 am
ARGH! PENGUINS! PENGUINS EVERYWHERE! *runs around screaming*
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 20, 2011, 12:37:08 pm
That's kind of an inside joke. See, I have trouble saying the word. I usually replace it with the phrase "Small, flightless, black and white aquatic bird."
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Flaming Dorf on May 22, 2011, 12:57:03 pm
Out of curiousity, why are the curses so specific? Will a cursed item never summon a large angry red dragon, or an enamored seal (as opposed to a penguin)? It takes some of the realism out of the game to have such a limited spectrum, at least for me.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 22, 2011, 06:57:18 pm
Mostly because I want to avoid having the DM/GM/Storyteller roll on another random table. If that's okay, though, I'll happily change it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Flaming Dorf on May 23, 2011, 12:49:24 am
It can't take more that thirty seconds to roll on a couple tables... but your rules could get very table-heavy, which impacts navigability. Totally up to you.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Glowcat on May 23, 2011, 11:37:12 pm
Mostly because I want to avoid having the DM/GM/Storyteller roll on another random table. If that's okay, though, I'll happily change it.

Random tables are bad, but so are effects that are incredibly specific. Instead try to create something that gives players and their DM a general idea of what the curse can accomplish. A good game system imo allows a lot of narrative flexibility while creating a sufficient groundwork for resolving conflicts in a fair manner. Saying something like, Curse #4523 causes monkeys to begin pouring out of your butt, doesn't make a great addition to a ruleset. Rather, it's a piece of fluff attached to a more comprehensive effect that let's DMs/Players come up with their own "animal comes out of orifice" curse. You create the building blocks, they create the fun.

Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 24, 2011, 09:54:16 am
Indeed. That seems to be an oversight I made with a couple of the curses/blessings. Those are being revised. Thanks for your input, guys.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Remalle on June 30, 2011, 04:35:21 pm
So what happened to this project?  Has it been abandoned?  As a Dabbling Game Designer I find myself fascinated by threads like these.  Twelve years?  Wow.  Most of my attempts end up in the trash after a week or so.  I would love to help beta test if this ever gets to that point.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 01, 2011, 01:24:32 am
It hasn't been abandoned, but it is on the back burner for now. Full time student, work, family, looking for a house, and life itself seems to be getting in the way of me actually working on it. Fear not, however, as it will continue! Just...not right now.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: klingon13524 on July 16, 2011, 01:42:43 am
Is there a fertility stat? No? Here's an idea for it:

You can ask a member of the opposite sex (gay ___ added in an expansion?) (preferably the same race) if they want to have ___, and you roll the D10 to determine your success. Factors that will effect your chances of success are: Charisma, race, xp, your relationship with the character, agility, seduction, fertility, alignment, and reputation. If you fail, they will refuse and it will damage your relations with them. If you succeed, then they agree and you two (please just two) go off to find a nice secluded spot.

WILL EDIT IN PART 2 OF THIS SUGGESTION TOMORROW!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sonerohi on July 16, 2011, 03:41:03 am
I think he's aiming for what FATAL isn't.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on July 16, 2011, 05:40:45 am
I think he's aiming for what FATAL isn't.

This. So much this.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on July 16, 2011, 10:58:24 am
I'd imagine pregnancy ought to be delagated to role-playing instead of rolling dice to see if it happens or not... Plus why do you even need to factor in a fertility stat to have a better chance of sex? "Ma'am, I am very virile" does not a very good pick up line make (Seriously, try it if you dare).
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 16, 2011, 07:43:46 pm
I think he's aiming for what FATAL isn't.

This. So much this.

Seconded. Holy crap, so seconded.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sonerohi on July 17, 2011, 03:02:02 am
Although making fun of FATAL with a few stupid character traits would be cool. Something like rolling for forehead width, and then never using the stat.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: tomas1297 on July 17, 2011, 03:23:17 am
Something like rolling for forehead width, and then never using the stat.
Headbutt formula: forehead width + skull density + spine strength + height + neck length + body momentum + neck momentum + spine flexibility?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on July 17, 2011, 04:58:43 pm
Really, random useless things will detract from the experience in my opinion. There's one thing when you wonder how often the rules for fallout would crop up, another thing to have something usually reserved for April fools supplements crop up in the main book.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: TheMasterTurtle on August 24, 2011, 08:22:33 pm
Looks very nice! Will buy if it comes out  8)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 24, 2011, 11:16:10 pm
Thank you for the interest!

FakeeditbecauseIdon'tlikedoubleposting:

I have a dilemma, B12. I'm separating "Combatants" from "Monsters". Which list do the undead go in?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on August 26, 2011, 12:29:42 am
Depends. I'd put stuff like Vampires in Combatants, because they're sapient. Stuff like Zombies and The Hollow I'd put in Monsters, because they are not sapient.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 26, 2011, 12:31:59 am
Depends. I'd put stuff like Vampires in Combatants, because they're sapient. Stuff like Zombies and The Hollow I'd put in Monsters, because they are not sapient.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. And renaming the Hollow to something cooler/less cliche.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on August 26, 2011, 12:38:22 am
The Hollow = reanimated skin, right?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 26, 2011, 12:47:32 am
The Hollow are actually humanoid-shaped, mindless, pseudo-blobs of spiritual energy looking for souls to consume to add to their own mass, which is slowly being siphoned away by the afterlife at a constant rate.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on August 26, 2011, 12:55:18 am
Ah...see, I hear "The Hollow" and think of necromantically animated skin.

So maybe your spirit blobs could become...uh...Ghostwalkers or something.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 26, 2011, 12:57:30 am
Hmm....I dunno. I'll think about it when I sleep. That, and my "sapient but still monsters" problem.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: dragonshardz on August 26, 2011, 01:08:45 am
If the beastie is sapient, then I'd class it as a Combatant. If it's just sentient, I'd class it as a Monster.

If anyone is confused: Sentient beings know what is "self" and what is "not-self", but are not capable of abstract thought. I'll quote a rant on the subject here:

Quote from: http://colonialchrome.co.uk/Pages/Rants/Rant_Sentience.html
This is a bug bear of epic proportions, mainly because it has so filtered into the media that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to create any kind of sci-fi without making this basic elemental blunder.
The problem is that these two words do NOT mean the same thing, and the word SENTIENT is used pretty much exclusively where the word SAPIENT is required.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sentient (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sentient)
Summary: Sentient = Having sensation.

[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sapient[/url[]
Summary: Sapient = Having wisdom.

Now, these two seem similar, but they're very different. Virtually every life form is sentient. Basically anything that can tell that it is different from other things around it has sentience. Mice are sentient life forms because they can sense that they're being prodded and know that it is by something that is not them. They understand that object A is a worm and can be eaten, and object B is a rock and cannot. They understand that both A and B are not part of itself.
Sapient species are those capable of wise thought, typically characterised as ABSTRACT thought.
If a man and a dog go to the top of an open mine shaft, and the man drops a glass ball and a steel ball, the man can deuce from his prior experience that it is likely that the glass ball will have shattered when it hits the mine floor, whilst the steel ball will quite likely be intact. The dog cannot do so, it would only be able to perceive this if it went down the mine and saw for itself first hand. That is assuming it was capable of understanding that the steel ball and the pile of broken glass represented the same items it saw at the top, which is unlikely.
This demonstrates the essential difference between the two concepts, man has shown SAPIENCE the dog merely SENTIENCE.

Now every time I hear someone on a sci-fi film or series ask something like 'Is there any sentient life?' they would be far better asking 'Is there any sapient life?' because the chances are very good that what he's really trying to find out is if there are any creatures down there we can talk to and get stuff from. The amount of times that question gets asked and the answer is 'No' followed by the cast wandering around whilst various critters waft around is staggering.

Two mildly relevant points; sapient creatures are by definition ALSO sentient, but the reverse is most certainly not true. The reason why we have the scientific classification Homo Sapiens is simply because we are the ONLY specie on this planet capable of the kinds of abstract thought that warrants being sapient. If one day we show that dolphins or chimps are also then they would be reclassified, probably something along the lines of 'Ceta Sapiens' or, er, 'Munky Sapiens'.

It drives me batty. Hopefully after you've read this you'll become massively intolerant of this same gratuitous misuse of English and campaign vocally for the mistake to never be repeated.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on August 26, 2011, 07:01:44 pm
Ah...see, I hear "The Hollow" and think of necromantically animated skin.

Gotta admit, that sounds like an awesome horrorterror.

Even better if they eat people, and then... ya know.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sonerohi on August 27, 2011, 12:08:23 am
That would be scary as hell. Blunt weapons would do nothing, and edged weapons would make it more likely to get picked up by the wind.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Kadzar on August 30, 2011, 03:20:35 pm
Ah...see, I hear "The Hollow" and think of necromantically animated skin.

Gotta admit, that sounds like an awesome horrorterror.

Even better if they eat people, and then... ya know.
They use the insides of the person to fill out their own body and look like a normal person, but they slowly consume those insides so that they look older and more shriveled as the days go by until they're nothing but skin again?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on August 30, 2011, 03:29:54 pm
That, plus the emotional torment of those consumed as they are forced to kill other people, maybe even their loved ones (whatever that means).
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on August 31, 2011, 01:50:41 am
The hollow sounds like hungry ghosts from Buddhist mythology, if you don't mind me saying. You prolly can get away with calling them the Hungry, or the Gluttons.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 31, 2011, 02:55:49 am
I will look into that, thank you, cag.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 23, 2011, 12:16:53 am
The wife's out with friends, the baby's asleep, so what to do? Work on my game, of course!

Filled in some proficiencies, filled in a couple of weapons, rearranged my monster list (sentience v sapience), and added some profession examples.

Spoiler: Profession examples. (click to show/hide)

Should I add anything to the list? I don't think that I want to define everything, but I don't want people to think that they're stuck with only these choices, either.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on September 23, 2011, 01:00:23 am
I have to ask something. What do those "successes" mean?

Also, doesn't seem to be any rider class, although I suppose rules for mounted combat might not be your thing.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 23, 2011, 01:15:01 am
Each time you use a Proficiency, you either succeed or fail. Succeeding at your tasks means that you (eventually) get better at them, and have to do harder work than you did before to continue growing your skill. Also, there is a proficiency dedicated to Animal Training. Mounted Combat rules have yet to be put in place, but they're in my notes...uh...somewhere.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on September 23, 2011, 04:45:08 am
How much is one rinta worth?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on September 23, 2011, 05:28:27 am
If I were a Performer, what would constitute as a success for Perform(Punnery)? Once people start groaning?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 23, 2011, 10:41:08 am
Most laymen and laborers make about 500 Rinta a year (200 days). This is enough to pay rent on a very modest home and provide for a small family.

Success as a Performer is when people put money in your hat. :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on September 23, 2011, 10:56:07 am
Well they'd give me mones so that I'd stop for the lve of whatever deity they believe in.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 23, 2011, 11:10:27 am
Well they'd give me mones so that I'd stop for the lve of whatever deity they believe in.

So long as they don't follow the God of Fear (Nivrak, a necromancer covered in bandages from head to toe, wearing the skull of a demon as a mask and wielding a staff of black lightning), or Goddess of Inequity (Nois, a chain smoking little girl with pigtails, a teddy bear and a frilly dress) you'll be okay. Those folks would probably try to steal your tongue.

Edit: Got most of Diplomacy done, rebalanced Animal Training and Alchemy today. Baby steps. I think I want to draw Nois.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 06, 2011, 01:20:36 am
I've decided to rewrite my elves so that they're not so closely tied to Salvatore's take on Drow. Will post when finished, if you guys want to read.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on October 22, 2011, 04:34:42 pm
I've decided to rewrite my elves so that they're not so closely tied to Salvatore's take on Drow. Will post when finished, if you guys want to read.
I would like to read, fantasy lore is of great interest to me.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on October 22, 2011, 05:13:51 pm
I've decided to rewrite my elves so that they're not so closely tied to Salvatore's take on Drow. Will post when finished, if you guys want to read.
I would like to read, fantasy lore is of great interest to me.

Here ye go.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Rgamer on January 18, 2012, 09:07:06 pm
Thread.... REVIVEEEE!

In all seriousness, this is looking very solid, and I am happy to wait however long it takes for you to compile your work, notes, and to get a-published.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on January 19, 2012, 12:20:14 am
I really appreciate that. I've been trying to chip away at it little by little, but don't feel like I have anything significant to post.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Rgamer on January 20, 2012, 10:12:56 pm
Just keep chipping away, and before you know it the project will be down to a much more manageable size. And it's good to hear that you haven't given up, it would be sad to see something with so much potential die off.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on January 20, 2012, 10:23:16 pm
Oh, don't worry, I'll never give up. NEVER SURRENDER!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sonerohi on January 21, 2012, 10:27:58 pm
Just please, for the love of goodness, make the economy at least semi-believable. If 500 renta is a good years sum, don't hand out 5k renta magic robes like candy. Seems like economies work nice at the start of development and slowly go absolutely stupid.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on January 22, 2012, 10:36:00 am
For the most part, anyone who wants a Magic Robe of Whatever has to make it themselves. Shops don't sell Flaming Swords of Doom or Infinity+1 Swords (I really like swords, incidentally), and they're rare enough loot that you probably wouldn't be able to sell them to anyone unless you're in a military area, have a direct line to a king, or in the "main" city of the world that's "protected" by various mercenary, military and underworld factions.

Edit: That's the way I storytell, anyway, and that's the way I recommend storytelling be done in the "How to run a game" section of the book, but I can't guarantee that it'll never be run like that. In fact, I'm sure that someone will run it like that somewhere. All I can do is throw up my hands and ask, "Are you at least having fun?"
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 18, 2012, 02:59:55 pm
By my power, I command this thread to arise!

I'm working on the Military Combat section right now. Here's the gist of it: Player hires specialists to command troops. Player acquires troops somehow (hiring mercs, being granted soldiers by nobility, black market slave trade, capturing enemy soldiers, mass summoning (think zombie horde), whatever.) Player uses wads of cash to outfit troops, or goes out and gets raw materials and makes the stuff by using soldier power. Using army, player attacks enemy armies, either doing mercenary work for larger military or going out and conquering small countries (at first, maybe just cities or small towns.) Player earns money from occupied territories, but may have to put down uprisings and whatnot. ??? Profit until world conquered or player smashed by larger army or gets bored and goes to do something else!

The reason I'm posting: Is there anything in particular that you guys would like to see in detail? Anything that you guys would like to see implemented? Battle of Thermopylae style combats are possible to win, given very good soldiers and a lot of luck. It's possible to turn your army into a ship full of sea dogs and go a-pirating on the high seas. It's possible to settle an area using your army, creating a new hamlet/small town in the huge expanses of unclaimed/highly dangerous wilderness. It's possible to overrun armies by destroying their morale, and keep that from happening to your army (by hiring entertainers and cooks!). It's possible to siege castles and keeps with catapults, ballistae, and other siege engines, as well as sapping and traditional besieging with soldiers and torches.

Please, please give me your input. I wants it. I needs it. It is myyyyy precioussssss...
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on March 18, 2012, 03:11:30 pm
What sort of stuff is there for vessel/vessel combat?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 18, 2012, 03:12:31 pm
Everything from covered wagons to warships. I have the rules for spaceships and giant mecha hidden away somewhere, but I'll probably put those in later, under the "Miscellaneous" section.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on March 18, 2012, 03:17:28 pm
That sounds very good.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 18, 2012, 03:20:21 pm
Vehicle/vehicle combat is kind of clunky right now, as it's mostly based on a Navigator's skills. I may include, "Ship Combat", "Siege Combat" and whatnot in the Proficiencies later. I'm kind of torn.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sonerohi on March 18, 2012, 05:41:12 pm
What is lethality like in your view? Me personally, I've always been a fan of games where even the super powerful guys are capable of being one shotted by a level 1 guy, because crossbow bolts never stop being deadly in my mind. Will players always/never be squishy, and will they grow much in that regard or be fairly stagnant?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 18, 2012, 08:23:26 pm
Well, first, there are no levels. People accrue skills and attributes as they grow and gain power, but just about no character that my players have come up with has been able to overcome a battleship or a thousand man army by hand. This doesn't mean it can't happen, just that it'd be very hard, very time consuming, and require a lot of dedicated play.

Second, a sword is pointy no matter who is wielding it. Absolutely any character can get lucky enough, or have a good enough strategy, to kill a VIP character. Now, the odds of that happening may border on the absurd sometimes, but that still happens once in a while. I had a player one-shot a Chimaera with "Sandblast" a basic-level earth spell that's only supposed to deal 20 damage, max, out of the Chimaera's 300+ Health. He just kept rolling 10s on his dice. BTW, I only use d10s for this game, and if you roll a 10 on any die roll, you take that 10 and then add the next roll. If you get another 10, it accumulates, potentially forever. OTOH, a 1 is an automatic failure, no matter your skill level. So, if Boss rolls a 1 on his Dodge, and n00b rolls a 10, 10, 10, 4 on his Accuracy, n00b will probably hit Boss. You can extrapolate from there.

Third, most players fall into the trap of overspecializing. It's very easy to do. In fact, to become a master at anything, you really have to spend all your time doing that and almost nothing else. So, a jack-of-all-trades may hit that weak spot on an overspecialized character very easily.

Fourth, all players have an elemental weakness. Yes, it's Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors from tvtropes. I'll spare you the link. So, Überwarrior may be decked out in Orichalcum Plate Mail, wielding a Flaming Greatsword of Doom, and still get taken down by a student wizard because he knows an Intermediate Water spell.

Lots of ways to keep the playing field even.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: niltrias on March 19, 2012, 12:18:55 am
I'm interested.  I too have a paper and pencil RPG that has been in dev for over a decade.  I have simply run out of people who are interested in PnP games....I still work on it from time to time.

...it might be two decades now, come to think of it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 19, 2012, 01:03:40 am
LONG LIVE DICE! DOWN WITH PENS!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on March 19, 2012, 05:01:18 am
Crippling over-specialisation? Awesome, I don't like games that punish you for trying to cover several bases.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on March 19, 2012, 06:10:42 am
The system does sound interesting so far. How far along is it? Plenty of systems that need to be fleshed out, or is it mostly going through exploit closing?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 19, 2012, 08:43:04 am
Crippling over-specialisation? Awesome, I don't like games that punish you for trying to cover several bases.
Mind you, there's so much there that you very easily can wind up trying to cover too many bases to be good at anything at all by the time your other players have hit a decent amount of skill.

The system does sound interesting so far. How far along is it? Plenty of systems that need to be fleshed out, or is it mostly going through exploit closing?
Right now, I'm doing a total re-write. This is total rewrite 5. This time, instead of just making a game for my friends and watching them tear it to pieces because it's totally unbalanced but still fun, I want to make a huge, sprawling game for everyone (that I then watch my friends tear to pieces because it's fun.)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on April 19, 2012, 09:37:40 pm
40 Elemental spells down...60 to go. Then 100 Ritual (non-elemental) spells.

Edit: 50 done!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: klingon13524 on April 20, 2012, 12:15:02 pm
Will there be a tribal/nomadic faction? What stat bonuses and/or penalties do these "Mongols" get if so?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: The Unicorn Killer on April 20, 2012, 11:34:54 pm
It's nice, but the formatting of your post leaves much to be desired. You don't have to indent that much.
I like indentations...
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on April 21, 2012, 12:31:37 am
Will there be a tribal/nomadic faction? What stat bonuses and/or penalties do these "Mongols" get if so?

Mostly, Goblins and Elves fill that role. You can also find the Children of Mannusis (the God of Justice), which are a pseudo-tribal community with a government based entirely on melee combat.

It's nice, but the formatting of your post leaves much to be desired. You don't have to indent that much.
I like indentations...
They pushed everything off the page because I screwed up the formatting of my post. Indents are great, but not when they make it so that you can't read anything. :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Kadzar on May 01, 2012, 12:52:12 am
Hey, nothing came up in a search and I can't recall it ever being mentioned, nor I can't be arsed to read through the thread again, but are there martial arts or fighting styles in this game? Something so that two characters using the same weapon could fight in very different ways?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 01, 2012, 12:31:54 pm
To a point. There are proficiencies for combat, and they can be broken down into specializations, but it's nothing specific like Nito-Ryu, Muay Thai, Judo, or Ninjutsu. On top of that, anyone can use any weapon, but they will be more effective in the hands of someone trained with it and suiting their Attributes. (Example, a Rapier is much more deadly in the hands of a quick character than is a Bastard Sword.) On top of that, every character is unique in their combinations of Attributes and skills, so that even if you have two fencers with rapiers fighting, one may be more prone to hiding and ambushing, counter-attacking, stealing the opponent's weapon, throwing secondary weapons, gaining extra attacks, calling down divine wrath, using Ki or Magic, or even stopping the fight completely with wordplay. There are lots of modifiers when it comes to combat.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: scriver on May 03, 2012, 02:33:07 am
This is true, but I still want the weapons to be mostly recognizable. I'm going to get flamed over the placement of certain weapons anyway (like the falchion, which is a short sword...), but I'd like to minimize that.

So, in what category did you put the Indian steel whip-sword? :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 03, 2012, 02:39:34 am
The Urumi is in the "Short Sword" category. It's very light and quick, and relegated to one hand.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: adwarf on May 03, 2012, 07:18:17 pm
Not sure if this question was asked yet, but what will the magic system in the game be like?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: scriver on May 03, 2012, 07:20:41 pm
The Urumi is in the "Short Sword" category. It's very light and quick, and relegated to one hand.

But it's nothing like other swords at all! ;D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 03, 2012, 07:27:56 pm
Not sure if this question was asked yet, but what will the magic system in the game be like?
Vancian. 10 Elemental Spheres of magic with 10 spells each, and 10 "Ritual" Non-elemental Spheres of magic, with 10 spells each.

The Urumi is in the "Short Sword" category. It's very light and quick, and relegated to one hand.

But it's nothing like other swords at all! ;D
I thought about putting it with "Soft" weapons, chains and whips and whatnot, but decided against it, because it is a sword, when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 22, 2012, 12:40:13 am
Finished the bones of 8 weapons tonight. Baby steps.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 22, 2012, 03:47:40 pm
Which 8?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 22, 2012, 03:53:14 pm
Scimitar, Willow Leaf Sword, Bastard Sword, Broadsword, Claymore, Dadao, Estoc, and Falx.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: scriver on May 22, 2012, 04:03:23 pm
Willow Leaf Sword?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 22, 2012, 04:16:03 pm
Yes. It's a Baguazhang sword, a little larger than a katana, used defensively. It's shaped similarly to a khopesh mixed with a dao chinese sword.

Edit: Looks like this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

14 edits later: There, I'm finally done editing this post. BLURGH!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ObeseHelmet on May 23, 2012, 03:30:16 pm
Definitely following this. An RPG contained in a single book? I tried to do that, but it failed after about half a campaign.

Posting to watch and offer encouragement!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 23, 2012, 03:33:58 pm
I'll take all the encouragement I can get, and I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on May 23, 2012, 07:03:41 pm
Do want- it looks like you have all the ideas you could want though. I guess I can't be of much help then, since I generally make an idea then never see it again.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 23, 2012, 07:07:32 pm
I have all the ideas, but knowing that people are reading the thread is a great inspiration. All I've gotta do is keep putting stuff in order!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: TD1 on May 26, 2012, 09:05:28 pm
You may already have mentioned, but i really couldnt be bothered reading through all 16 pages....anyway, when you do finsh it, hat are you going to do with it. btw i think its an awesome idea:P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 26, 2012, 09:24:58 pm
Put it on kickstarter, hire an artist and an editor/formatter and then sell it to the unwashed masses so they can play a good RPG.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: TD1 on May 27, 2012, 11:16:39 am
sounds like a great idea. Give a heads up when/if it becomes available for me (one of the unwashed masses) and i will most likely aquire it...with 
money, or other means.......:D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on May 27, 2012, 12:40:15 pm
As a quick question, will there/is there multiclassing?

Not in the half-half upon embark, so to speak, but being able to take on a different job of similar taste (Gladiators use swords and shields, they multiclass as Paladins (who instead focus on defense) to learn some great defensive skills to compliment their brute force of awesome.

This is different from say a half kitsune half tentacle demon cross (Which would be devastation to anything... in horrible, horrible ways) in that it's not the species it's the class. In fact, a Red Mage is much like a multiclass in that it can heal and hurt.

Ever play Etarian Odyssey III? I never got to the multiclassing (Damn Narmer.) but it was an interesting concept.
Using it, you could have flintlock-carrying ronin (Ronin + Buccaneer) or what-have-you.

This could also be achieved by in-game methods like shrines or knowing of a profession and studying it along with your own, or done from start.

Another way of doing this would be "pure" classes: A person that learns or knows no skills but can wield any weapon, someone who learns all skills but can only use one kind of weapon, and mages that divine their own magic based on what they see in battle- two swordsman going at it may accidentally create sparks or a loud clang, giving the mage the idea of fireball or Deafening Sound or something.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on May 27, 2012, 05:02:32 pm
My game's system is totally classless. There's only "Profession" which only determines starting skills and equipment. If you have a thiefy-sneaky type that wants to learn to use sword and shield, or make swords and shields or even enchant equipment, there is nothing stopping them. Any character can use any skill, but they're not going to be great at it at first. Any character can use magic, but again, they aren't going to be great at it at first. Character builds are totally open.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on May 27, 2012, 05:30:47 pm
Yes.


This makes me happy.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 06, 2012, 06:35:02 pm
100 Elemental spells...complete! Gotta just keep filling stuff in, and this'll be done before I know it!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 11, 2012, 11:36:58 pm
NEW UPDATE!

Had a good gaming session today, whilst hammering out the kinks for the details on a survival-based mode. You know, gathering resources, building stuff, exploring dead ruins, commanding minions, stuff like that.

Good times.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on June 13, 2012, 12:00:51 am
NEW UPDATE!

Had a good gaming session today, whilst hammering out the kinks for the details on a survival-based mode. You know, gathering resources, building stuff, exploring dead ruins, commanding minions, stuff like that.

Good times.
FUZZYZERGLING REQUIRES DETAILS!
By which I mean, if you could describe anything interesting that happened, that would be great.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 13, 2012, 12:24:32 am
Hey, Max! I've been wondering about your little endeavor here for a while since I've been slowly brewing up a d10 system of my own, though we appear to have pretty differing goals.

You're fighting the good fight, man. I'm the kind of person who loses interest in most things after about 2000 words, so I can respect the amount of work you've put in.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 13, 2012, 04:39:14 pm
NEW UPDATE!

Had a good gaming session today, whilst hammering out the kinks for the details on a survival-based mode. You know, gathering resources, building stuff, exploring dead ruins, commanding minions, stuff like that.

Good times.
FUZZYZERGLING REQUIRES DETAILS!
By which I mean, if you could describe anything interesting that happened, that would be great.

Well, I drew up a crude map, shipwrecked my two players on an island with 8 incompetent mooks (all 0 for stats, human, unskilled, 30hp,) no equipment, and nominal survivability. I hammered out rules for npc food/water consumption, overland movement and "help" rolls (being assisted by NPCs on a particular action.) They found a dwarven mine with several traps (which killed two of the mooks,) a forge with a few materials, and a small stockpile of food, where they set up base. They also found an abandoned temple where one of their mooks converted into a priest of the Goddess of Inequity after an amazing roll. They also found a ruined keep full of "whipstitch beasts," which are basically undead chimaera, skeletons of long dead dwarven warriors, a necromancer that was totally uninterested in the players (both of whom were playing bloodless lineages), and the location of a goblin warcamp. That's where we stopped.

Hey, Max! I've been wondering about your little endeavor here for a while since I've been slowly brewing up a d10 system of my own, though we appear to have pretty differing goals.

You're fighting the good fight, man. I'm the kind of person who loses interest in most things after about 2000 words, so I can respect the amount of work you've put in.
Thanks, man. I appreciate any interest or praise I can muster. ^_^

The next thing I want to do is a Resident Evil (1) style survival horror game, just to see if it works. A bunch of stuff in the game can be eschewed in this type of game, but I'd really like to see if I can even do it. I have a hard time not turning games into, "ZOMFG, world gunna end, saev it, players!"
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on June 14, 2012, 04:53:13 pm
8 incompetent mooks (all 0 for stats, human, unskilled, 30hp,)
So if 0 is incompetent, is that minimum, or can you have negative stats? What sort of range would the PCs have? Similarly, what sort of ranges of HP would the PCs have? And what are the different stats?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 14, 2012, 08:02:17 pm
0 is average NPC. You can indeed have negative stats. They were incompetent because a) they had no skills at all, and b) they kept rolling 'automatic failure' rolls.

The PCs had 48 and 27 HP, respectively. One of them was a Doppelganger, and one was a Faerie. I'll let you guess which had less HP, the amorphous blob, or the 3 inch tall floating ball of light. :P

To make matters worse, neither player had the right build for survival in the wilderness. They spent two whole days looking for food, and damn near starved to death before they found the small food stockpile in the mine.

Attributes are broken into four categories: Physical, Mental, Spiritual, and Skills, and each has six components. Physical is about what you'd expect, like Strength, Dexterity, Agility, etc. Mental is about the same, with Intelligence, Charisma, Willpower, etc. Spiritual contains things like Magic, Religion, Meditation and Luck. Skills hold the base skills for fighting, Stealth, Lore and Medicine.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on June 25, 2012, 05:56:40 pm
I keep throwing my wallet at the computer screen but noting is happening.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on June 25, 2012, 06:13:04 pm
Pffft. It's a computer, it only accepts electronic payment. Throw your credit card instead.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on June 26, 2012, 04:00:28 am
Let me get the rules finished before you try to pay for it. :P

Once I get the rules completely done, it'll go to my friends, who will break it thoroughly, then I'll put it back together and put it up on Kickstarter, soz I can hire an artist and a book formatter.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: griffinpup on July 25, 2012, 11:39:51 am
Hey.  I'm a noob, and i'd totally like to try out your pen and paper.  If you have even a little portion for me to try, it would be great.

 :' ;)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 31, 2012, 01:59:40 pm
Okay, I'm going to put this in the OP:

I am currently not beta-testing, and I will let you guys know when I am.

Also, I was reading a thread about the screwed up D&D Alignment system, and I was thinking about redefining mine to "Morality". Morality would be "High" (This character is generally altruistic and benevolent, and keep selfishness to a minimum, and they work to better the lives of the people around them,) "Moderate" (This character is balanced between benevolence and selfishness, or strives for asceticism,) and "Low" (This person is generally selfish, greedy and decadent, working only to better themselves.)

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Fishbreath on July 31, 2012, 02:25:16 pm
My homebrew system retains a lot of joke elements (since it was born of a joke), and the alignment system is really only a vessel to score points against D&D, but it also got a lot of praise from my players. Rather than go vague, I actually added two axes, and ended up with what the players said was a pretty good way to describe a personality:

Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: ed boy on July 31, 2012, 03:52:43 pm
  • Flexible/Strict: whether a character will break from his alignment for expedience.
  • Honorable/Dishonorable: a character's degree of adherence to an internal set of rules of behavior.
  • Good/Evil: basically selfish/unselfish.
  • Lawful/Chaotic: a character's degree of adherence to external sets of rules.
That's pretty good, but one aspect which could really augment it is whether a character is a big-thinker or a little-detailer. A big thinker tries to plan long-term and considers the end results more important than the methods, but risks falling out of touch with reality or doing something wrong because they think it'll help in the long run. A little-detailer does what is optimal in each situation, and is flexible to different problems, and adapts the goals based on what is attainable, but risks not having any lasting effect or being sidetracked from overall goals.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on July 31, 2012, 03:56:05 pm
Honestly, those are all details that should be hashed out through in-game character growth. Aside from that, all of those aspects are motile (they change slowly, but they do change) in a real person, and behavior modeling of characters is no different.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on August 02, 2012, 01:09:51 pm
Is the alignment going to have an in-game effect? As in, are there going to be spells that target a certain morality, affect certain moralities, and so on and so forth? If yes, then maybe you should have a morality system.

If there isn't an in-game effect then don't bother with morality. It just straight jackets gameplay into something without much flexibility, no matter how often you point out that it shouldn't, and doesn't and wouldn't. People are just like that, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 02, 2012, 10:15:06 pm
Yes, there are alignment effects. There are spells, curses and blessings, God/Favor bonuses, Noble/Favor bonuses, and military bonuses. They aren't super-dramatic, but they're enough to shift the momentum of a game.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on August 03, 2012, 11:42:34 am
Facepunch RPG: only game with a four dimensional alignment grid.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on August 03, 2012, 02:38:17 pm
Facepunch RPG: only game with a four dimensional alignment grid.
Down, Forward, DownForward and SHORYUKEN!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on September 01, 2012, 10:34:57 pm
Dropping in to say I'm still watching and still interested.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 01, 2012, 10:38:08 pm
Very cool. Much appreciated.

I'm working on a side project right now that, hopefully, will spread across B12 like a weird meme. It is tangentially related to my main project here. I'll keep you all posted.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on September 02, 2012, 04:36:19 am
Does it involve your fist?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on September 02, 2012, 09:53:17 am
How weird are we talking here?
Penguin weird, or !!SCIENCE!! weird? Maybe Kamina Glasses weird? Or perhaps even Double Down weird?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 02, 2012, 07:34:12 pm
No, it does not directly involve either of my fists.

And...it's the rules for a "new" forum game. I just hope it takes off and other people decide to run it, that's all.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Kamin on September 07, 2012, 01:29:38 am
Well in THAT case... PTW.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 19, 2012, 03:50:13 pm
The map for my new forum game is complete! Now, to tweak and balance. Then, we shall PLAY!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Kamin on September 19, 2012, 04:56:39 pm
Wow, so you're finally almost done with it after all these years... My little guy has grown up so fast *tear*
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 19, 2012, 05:45:27 pm
Er, not quite. My side project, for THIS VERY FORUM. That's what I've been working on, and what is nearly complete.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Haspen on September 23, 2012, 03:20:38 pm
PTW!

I wanted to do that last time we talked, hurr :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on November 24, 2012, 12:25:57 am
Okay, so I'm actually going to update this, even though it's been two months since I last did so.

I've been really, really busy with work, my daughter, trying to get back into college, trying to get full time work that isn't so damned sporadic, and making failed attempts at forum games that never actually made it to the forums. Sorry about that.

Actual game update: After a fit of inspiration, I just completed the "Blessings" table. So, now you have 100 Blessings and 100 Curses to work with. I've tweaked a few spells for balance's sake. I'll probably work on materials or equipment next, but there are so much of both that...well...it's daunting to even look at.

I've got 90 Ritual (Non-Elemental spells), 40 Proficiencies (essentially 40 mini-rulesets for skill challenges and 400 bonuses,) 146 Weapons (I haven't even touched armor yet,) 97 Material types, and a shitload of other rules to write. I also seem to be missing about 500 pages of notes. They exist, but fuck if I know where they are. I'm not even sure what they contain anymore.

Officially, my word count is 49,243, which is kind of depressing when thinking about NaNoWriMo. DnD4e PHB1 is roughly 200k words. I've got a long, long way to go.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: scriver on November 24, 2012, 03:30:27 am
Keep it up, Max. I'm not good judging rules and mechanics and such, but I'll always be available when you want noob-proof it ;)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on November 24, 2012, 08:35:58 pm
And I'm always ready to test it against crazy people.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on November 24, 2012, 08:39:02 pm
I think most people here would want to test it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 24, 2012, 08:52:21 pm
You should take the 'Desperate Gods' engine and make it so you can bring up the rules, role dice, and import/draw dungeons!

anyways, looks great.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on November 24, 2012, 10:07:22 pm
You should take the 'Desperate Gods' engine and make it so you can bring up the rules, role dice, and import/draw dungeons!

anyways, looks great.
Never heard of it. I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip.

Okay, from looking at it for a little bit, it doesn't really seem up to snuff to do something as vast as run any tabletop game. Once I get closer to completing this monster of a project, I'll probably cook up some mapping tools or something, but it's gonna have to wait for now. In fact, it'll probably have to wait until I can afford to hire a programmer or five, because I'm a barely mediocre at-very-best programmer.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Darvi on November 25, 2012, 07:23:10 am
IMO it'd be just easier to use maptools. I mean DG is great once you get over the interface and stuff, but for a fullblown PnP game maptools is just more appropriate.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on November 28, 2012, 03:09:14 pm
Just punched up the raw numbers for all the weapons and ammo. Once I get armor/accessories and medicines and whatnot done, the game should be dungeon crawl-able again, although it'll be missing a lot, a lot of stuff.

Edit: 11/29/12

Broke 50k words. Spent about an hour and a half punching in numbers for armor and rebalancing weapons.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on November 30, 2012, 05:20:36 pm
There's always other tools to run this over too, like roll20.net if you're having port forwarding blues.

Also, good to see this is still alive and well, looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on November 30, 2012, 11:06:43 pm
Oh, it's still going. It's just going really slowly. It probably will until after christmas is over and I have time that I can use to write instead of decompress from running myself ragged.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on February 17, 2013, 11:16:39 pm
This sounds awesome. I would be happy to help test when you get to that point, and also posting to watch. :)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on February 17, 2013, 11:24:17 pm
Wow, wasn't really any replies after such a long hiatus.

Anyway, since this is back on the front page of Creative Projects, I should give an update. I've made some minor changes, and gotten most of the numbers up and running. I really, really need to add fluff to everything, and finish all the monsters (most of the combat numbers are done, but WTF is a Catoblepas at first glance?) and Rituals (non-elemental spells) Materials (again most of the numbers are done, but the difference between Microcline and Tetrahedrite is negligible to a non DF player), and Proficiencies. Once those are finished, the game will be pretty much dungeon crawl-able. Then, I'll get to work on the rules for buildings and vehicles, military combat, and other whatnot. I have a lot of whatnot left to do.

A wise man once told me that to eat an elephant, you have to do it one bite at a time. Well, this elephant has been in the fridge for a long, long time, and it still doesn't seem to be getting any smaller. However, I have to recommit to taking a bite of elephant every day in the pursuit of seeing it finished. So, I'm going to to my best to re-up, bite the damn elephant, and report more often to you guys.

Thanks for your continued interest, all.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on February 17, 2013, 11:25:20 pm
YES.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on February 18, 2013, 01:02:17 am
Anyway, my bite of the Elephant for the day was to write the description for the Katana. Honestly, it was next in line.

FakeEdit: I really don't see how The Toady One does it. I mean, man. Trying to write is just so overwhelming when there's just so damned much to do.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on February 18, 2013, 05:11:17 pm
I think toady does it with the power of money and love. :D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on February 18, 2013, 05:34:20 pm
Or he has the same OCD and level of madness I do when it comes to describing things- I've made so much thing.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on February 19, 2013, 01:50:45 am
I think toady does it with the power of money and love. :D
I have one of those. Hint: You can't pay rent with it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on February 19, 2013, 02:19:55 am
Ooh, this is a hard one. Is iiiit... money?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Ohillier on February 22, 2013, 07:46:32 am
Interesting is the word for me. I want to try it out! :)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sjm9876 on February 22, 2013, 04:13:12 pm
This looks really neat. i'd try and help playtest if you need anyone at any point. Short of that, a way to cut the workload a bit would be to make weapon templates and the like - I'm sure the bay12 community would add ridiculous amounts of content with mininmal prompting.... (plus It'd be really cool to see this on a shelf and think - i helped make this) Apologies if this has been mentioned before.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on February 22, 2013, 04:18:16 pm
This looks really neat. i'd try and help playtest if you need anyone at any point. Short of that, a way to cut the workload a bit would be to make weapon templates and the like - I'm sure the bay12 community would add ridiculous amounts of content with mininmal prompting.... (plus It'd be really cool to see this on a shelf and think - i helped make this) Apologies if this has been mentioned before.
Well, this is my baby (aside from my actual kid,) and I'd really like to do as much of the work on it as humanly possible. Kind of how The Toady One is the only programmer of DF. I appreciate the thought, and it'll hit the shelves eventually, but it's going to have to be done by my hands.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: sjm9876 on February 23, 2013, 12:14:42 pm
This looks really neat. i'd try and help playtest if you need anyone at any point. Short of that, a way to cut the workload a bit would be to make weapon templates and the like - I'm sure the bay12 community would add ridiculous amounts of content with mininmal prompting.... (plus It'd be really cool to see this on a shelf and think - i helped make this) Apologies if this has been mentioned before.
Well, this is my baby (aside from my actual kid,) and I'd really like to do as much of the work on it as humanly possible. Kind of how The Toady One is the only programmer of DF. I appreciate the thought, and it'll hit the shelves eventually, but it's going to have to be done by my hands.
Fair play then. But if you ever need to make an expansion..... :P
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on February 23, 2013, 10:44:17 pm
This looks really neat. i'd try and help playtest if you need anyone at any point. Short of that, a way to cut the workload a bit would be to make weapon templates and the like - I'm sure the bay12 community would add ridiculous amounts of content with mininmal prompting.... (plus It'd be really cool to see this on a shelf and think - i helped make this) Apologies if this has been mentioned before.
Well, this is my baby (aside from my actual kid,) and I'd really like to do as much of the work on it as humanly possible. Kind of how The Toady One is the only programmer of DF. I appreciate the thought, and it'll hit the shelves eventually, but it's going to have to be done by my hands.
Fair play then. But if you ever need to make an expansion..... :P
My friends already have several lined up for me. :P Zombie horror and Giant Robots spring to mind. I'd really rather not put the cart before the horse is even born, though.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 08, 2013, 10:11:55 am
So, all, I have a question for you: at what point is a Kickstarter campaign feasible? Quite frankly, I really need to be kickstarted. Now, I'm not expecting a huge influx of cash, although it would be great if it happened, I need to pay for art and publication somehow, and Kickstarter seems like the perfect tool to get the job done.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on March 08, 2013, 03:53:37 pm
I'm not exactly sure, but the whole point is to show these things:
1: You have the ability and drive to work on the project. Finished things, examples, this drives donation. "This guy's put work into this, and it looks like he knows what he's doing.
2: Again, drive.
"It dosen't seem like he's going to quit for some reason."
3: Don't put everything up. You don't want them to know every detail, but you do want to back up the points you make. Don't give them a list of every stone in the game, but do give them the idea that stones are different.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on March 08, 2013, 04:11:05 pm
I'd say it's feasible, if you have more than enough to be classified as at least more than half done. And if you were to do a reward system, don't overcomplicate it, if the best you can do is say thanks do so. You still have my full support on this. Hope you do well, MZ!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on March 08, 2013, 04:13:13 pm
As for rewards, you could give out exclusive races, units or whatever, something that someone could make on their own with the right tools. For high donations, allow them to communicate with you something small they'd like- maybe a mention somewhere in the lore, even. Don't do something that makes too much extra work, make it something that you know can be put together in a small amount of time away from the main game. Trinkets, basically.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on March 08, 2013, 04:17:41 pm
Yeah, Tsu has it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on March 08, 2013, 04:25:43 pm
One clarification: for the larger donators, make them with one-or-two slot style stuff that will go in the mainbox, for the cheap donations, you could design a race (like the mecha, or a cyborg race, with whatever degree of balance you want) that donators get. For the really cheap stuff, you could put together a cheap "lore book", something very small, like a 3DS game instruction booklet, going over some facet of the story or game.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 08, 2013, 04:27:25 pm
Well, I really don't want to put the cart before the horse here, but a few people have come out in support of the Kickstarter campaign, but at a later date. I have to scrape the money together to actually run the ad campaign, and I don't have that. I probably won't until either late this year (after I graduate with an Associate's degree and can get a full-time-job,) or early next year.

Possible rewards that I've thought of: Dice, campaigns and modules (this is the big one. I'd have to make a fair few for various levels of donation), maps, and extra game resources. Possibly short stories, but I'm not sure how well those would fly. Big rewards would be a) me making custom modules and potentially even driving to a place to run a custom campaign. Again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse, here, considering that the horse isn't even complete yet.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SilverDragon on March 08, 2013, 04:39:57 pm
Oh, yeah! You could write an exclusive short story, or you could get someone to, and if someone donates quite a bit, maybe more than 25 dollahs you can sell it with it, like how Oblivion came with a full length novel when you preordered it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on March 08, 2013, 04:41:18 pm
Dice, that would be a big thing. Especially if there's ever more than 1d6. If you can get the dice in bulk, buy enough for say, 250 packages, and make fairly good profit off of it (price it around if you hadn't bought bulk, I'd say). Not including enough dice for big situations (like, say, 3 or 4 of one kind of dice) may not be avoidable- depending on the engine. I don't think it's wrong to plan out rewards early, but working on them wouldn't be so great. It burns money quickly, and for smaller packages, you may want to release those shortly after actual release so that you can use some of the end revenue for that.

Short stories are nice. If any of your friends are of that inclination you can run some beta games with them and possibly get some short stories based on actual gameplay.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 08, 2013, 05:17:05 pm
Dice, that would be a big thing. Especially if there's ever more than 1d6. If you can get the dice in bulk, buy enough for say, 250 packages, and make fairly good profit off of it (price it around if you hadn't bought bulk, I'd say). Not including enough dice for big situations (like, say, 3 or 4 of one kind of dice) may not be avoidable- depending on the engine. I don't think it's wrong to plan out rewards early, but working on them wouldn't be so great. It burns money quickly, and for smaller packages, you may want to release those shortly after actual release so that you can use some of the end revenue for that.

Short stories are nice. If any of your friends are of that inclination you can run some beta games with them and possibly get some short stories based on actual gameplay.
RE: Dice. The game runs on exclusively d10s. You don't really need a lot, but I was thinking that for like, $7 or so more than the actual game book, I'd throw in a set of 10. I happen to have a good contact with Chessex that would make mass amounts of dice feasible.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: chaoticag on March 08, 2013, 06:51:57 pm
Well, before you run a kickstarter, do check up with people willing to make art first, even if they need to be commissioned. Then that's your goal plus taxes (don't forget taxes). I'd be willing to toss a few dollars, but we'll have to see on how things turn out.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: SalmonGod on March 30, 2013, 02:21:57 am
PTW
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Reelya on March 30, 2013, 05:06:14 am
PTW, and if you need c++ / general coder experience, for the interactive solo version, I'll help out.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: gman8181 on March 30, 2013, 09:05:35 am
Looks interesting.  There aren't many games that offer more in depth customization like what this might have.  Being able to make your own stuff from scratch (including ships, buildings, etc) sounds great.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on March 30, 2013, 09:21:54 am
PTW, and if you need c++ / general coder experience, for the interactive solo version, I'll help out.
I really appreciate that, considering that I have trouble with basic stuff like functions and whatnot. That said, that part of the game is going to wait until I can hire people. I never expect people to work for free. Except me, of course, but this is my hobby.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: Xantalos on April 24, 2013, 02:31:38 am
I love it when I look into people's dogs and find awesome stuff like this. I'd donate, but I possess no means of online payment (unfortunately, because I would if I could). The only thing I can offer is written fiction for the world if you want.
In other words, PTW and this looks awesome.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Reactions?
Post by: MaximumZero on April 24, 2013, 10:32:58 am
Thanks! As of yet, I'm not accepting donations or payment of any kind, but I appreciate the thought. I still have a lot of elephant to eat before I get to that point.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 23, 2013, 09:38:32 am
Wise fwom youw gwave!

I took the elephant out of the fridge and took a bite today.

Reorganized and finished the monster table. It just needs numbers, which I'm going to start on after my break and should finish today. There are now: 100 monsters, including 50 monster types, 20 giant animal types, 10 golems and 20 dragons. There are also 100 "enemy combatants", featuring monstrous humanoid enemies, like zombies, skeletons, giants, vampires, and generic pc-types, like knights, mages, and bandits, most of which can be paired with a monstrous type, to make something like a paladin ghost, or a greater vampire summoner. After that, I'll probably make 100 "VIPs", who are essentially pre-generated endgame enemies. I already have about 50 of them, and they include some of my favorite characters.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on August 24, 2013, 03:38:17 am
Sounds like a sweet system. Keep up the good work :D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 24, 2013, 09:20:22 pm
Thanks. I wound up finishing 50 of the enemies, but still have 150 to go, plus 100 animals, because they all have the same stats. I can do this, I swear.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Nadaka on August 27, 2013, 11:20:19 am
I used to play around with game design a lot, i'll try to read through this at some point.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Neonivek on August 27, 2013, 03:32:08 pm
Quote
I just can't keep second guessing myself. Been working on this monster for a little over a decade now, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time.

Let me ask you... what would happen if you suddenly stopped, gave up and never wrote a single other word into this book?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 27, 2013, 09:48:32 pm
Quote
I just can't keep second guessing myself. Been working on this monster for a little over a decade now, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time.

Let me ask you... what would happen if you suddenly stopped, gave up and never wrote a single other word into this book?
I'd disappoint a few friends for a few weeks or so, some people on the internet for a couple of minutes, and myself for probably about a year solid. Otherwise? Nothing. It's not like the universe at large cares about my game. It's not going to cure cancer. It's a game. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on August 27, 2013, 11:07:09 pm
I think he was getting at something about how long you've been working on it.  Like suggesting that maybe you should take a step back and evaluate the state of the thing right now and how much it really needs the work you're continuing to put into it.  Strictly an attempt at translation here.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 27, 2013, 11:50:39 pm
If anything you should just feel good for sticking to a project at all over time and continuing to devote yourself to it, even in little bits.  Lord knows how many projects I've given up on, some nearly as old as yours.  The fact that you have anything at all to show for a passion, even a minor one, is something to be glad for.

Do let us all know when you feel like testing it.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 28, 2013, 12:01:03 am
Will do. For now, it's just a hobby of mine that I can devote time to now and again. At this point, it's nothing more than what people get out of building birdhouses or boats or whatever. I don't really expect it to ever be really finished, or get rich off of it, or whatever.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Neonivek on August 28, 2013, 04:12:49 am
Quote
I just can't keep second guessing myself. Been working on this monster for a little over a decade now, and I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time.

Let me ask you... what would happen if you suddenly stopped, gave up and never wrote a single other word into this book?
I'd disappoint a few friends for a few weeks or so, some people on the internet for a couple of minutes, and myself for probably about a year solid. Otherwise? Nothing. It's not like the universe at large cares about my game. It's not going to cure cancer. It's a game. Why do you ask?

Nothing, just that it should answer your question for the most part.

It wouldn't be a true relief
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on October 17, 2013, 12:14:09 pm
Finished up a couple enemy combatants. Still extremely overwhelmed whenever I look at what I have to do left. Bluh.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on October 17, 2013, 05:56:14 pm
Finished up a couple enemy combatants. Still extremely overwhelmed whenever I look at what I have to do left. Bluh.

No reason to be overwhelmed when you don't have a deadline.  Just make sure you continue doing work on it when you can, and it will happen.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on October 18, 2013, 09:02:56 am
Put together another handful of enemies. Hopefully this is a pattern.

Also, thanks, SalmonGod, it's good to have perspective on things sometimes. I have to remember that I'm doing this for me, not anyone else.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Skyrunner on October 19, 2013, 11:12:48 pm
rawr





ptw
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: gigaraptor487 on December 15, 2013, 08:45:41 am
How is it going?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on December 15, 2013, 09:24:58 am
Very slow. I work retail, and the holidays are nuts. After the holidays will be the perfect time for me to jump back on the creativity train. I'll probably work on it a little on Wednesday, because I'll be home alone, and for some reason, writing with people around makes me nervous. On top of that, I've been stuffing my face full of Starbound, so that hasn't helped.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Skyrunner on December 15, 2013, 09:34:54 am
Starbound is killing productivity everywhere.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on December 15, 2013, 03:14:53 pm
Very slow. I work retail, and the holidays are nuts. After the holidays will be the perfect time for me to jump back on the creativity train. I'll probably work on it a little on Wednesday, because I'll be home alone, and for some reason, writing with people around makes me nervous. On top of that, I've been stuffing my face full of Starbound, so that hasn't helped.

Same sorta thing here.  Logistics and brokerage get super crazy.  Work dominates your life for almost half the year leading up to the holidays.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 07, 2014, 01:18:29 am
So. I've come into a little bit of free time, and I'm thinking of making a really big, sweeping change to the equipment system. Namely, nuking a large portion of it. I have a lot of eastern/asian stuff (katanas, kimonos, etc.) in the game right now, but nowhere to put it. The mythology that I've built just doesn't really support it.

I'm kind of waffling here, guys. I don't want to lose this stuff, but at the same time, I'm at 173 weapon types. If you consider "iron katzbalger" completely separate from "bronze katzbalger", (when I change the materials to the 50 metal types I'm working on,) that puts me at 8,650 weapons, without magic, blessings, curses, or customizing the handles and blades and other miscellaneous whatnot, and no legendary artifacts (of which I'll probably make a hundred or two. Those are pretty easy.)

I'm seriously considering coming all the way down to 100 base weapon types even. It'll make the d10/100 based treasure table much more manageable than it is now, but I'm going to cut into my western style weapons, too. I'm going to lose over half of my chain weapons, and about half of my spears, short swords, knives and throwing weapons. I know that I'll be leaving a crapton of stuff in the game, but it makes me nervous to cut that much all at once.

Agh. Help me angst creatively, B12.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Bauglir on January 07, 2014, 01:25:25 am
Does your game system have room for appendices and/or later expansions? If you can think of a thematic way to group things, that might be an effective way to limit the core to be more manageable while still allowing you to put the material somewhere that it could still be used.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 07, 2014, 01:37:57 am
Does your game system have room for appendices and/or later expansions? If you can think of a thematic way to group things, that might be an effective way to limit the core to be more manageable while still allowing you to put the material somewhere that it could still be used.
Sort of. It would be simple to add more settings to the game by tweaking the gameworld, along with items lists and enemies/monsters/animals/etc, but I'd rather do my best to limit the expansions to zero if possible. I mean, look at all the stuff you can tack on to D&D 3.5. A buddy of mine used to carry around three duffel bags chock full of books just to DM D&D. If I'm going to do that, it kind of defeats the purpose of putting everything in one book, even though the book will probably be a doorstopper by the time I'm done writing lore and whatnot.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on January 07, 2014, 07:44:37 am
Could a lot of the stuff you're cutting out not be described as a style modification on the weapon types you'll leave in, mechanically the same as a customized handle or blade?
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 07, 2014, 01:11:50 pm
Could a lot of the stuff you're cutting out not be described as a style modification on the weapon types you'll leave in, mechanically the same as a customized handle or blade?
Some of it. There are a few things that are drastically different from the other equipment, like the manrikikusari and the hooksword, but players can live without them in general. Aside from one of my testers, the crazy weapons didn't see much use.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on January 07, 2014, 03:21:27 pm
I'm the type who likes crazy weapons for his characters :P

My favorite was the acrobat who fought with two immovable rods.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 07, 2014, 05:11:52 pm
Remember that the list of 100 weapons that I have it pared down to tentatively doesn't include artifacts at all. Those come later, and I may include eastern weapons in that list.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 09, 2014, 02:18:15 pm
Update: The base stats for 100 weapons are finished! Next up: Armor.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on January 09, 2014, 04:56:46 pm
You could add in Samurai Swords, if only because it sounds really cool to have a dual-wield samurai warrior. Of course, may not fit in with your mythology, but you could always attribute it to some specialised group or what not.

I really like the sound of what you're doing. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 09, 2014, 05:16:04 pm
You could add in Samurai Swords, if only because it sounds really cool to have a dual-wield samurai warrior. Of course, may not fit in with your mythology, but you could always attribute it to some specialised group or what not.
I actually just cut a ton of eastern weapons (katanas ["samurai swords"] being one of them.) Funny part is, I'm actually much more well-versed in the eastern (asian) weapons than the western (european) weapons. I've trained in Ninjutsu [tons of weapons, my favorites being the manrikigusari and the kusarigama], Kendo & Iaido [katana, nodachi, wakizashi, tanto], Muay Thai [tonfas], as well as western fencing and swordfighting [épée, arming sword, backsword, and greatsword/zweihander]. Just a heads up, though, the katana is a two-handed weapon, not a one-handed weapon. Dual wielding is for kodachi or wakizashi, or one katana and a wakizashi if you've trained in Ippon Nito-Ryu/Niten Ichi-Ryu swordsmanship, which I haven't trained in, although I'd like to.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on January 09, 2014, 05:17:38 pm
Good work! keep it up MZ :D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 09, 2014, 05:19:06 pm
Good work! keep it up MZ :D
Grazi, ser.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 10, 2014, 02:58:38 pm
Update: Base Stats for 100 pieces of armor are done. Next up: How much things cost, and "other equipment."
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Kadzar on January 10, 2014, 04:25:20 pm
Way to go, dude!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on January 10, 2014, 06:21:24 pm
Rather than starting with a number of things you want to have in each category, try paring it down until you can't have any fewer. For example, you could have armor in the Light, Medium, and Heavy categories. If you want Mail to behave differently from Scale somehow, start by calling it Medium armor and then add some modifier because it's Scale. That way a gaming group could get away with saying "we're gonna do a simple game this time, no armor type modifications."

With weapons, you could probably pare it down to 15 types and still capture a lot of variety. Is a quarterstaff so very different from a bo staff? Perhaps you could list weapons based on what they do, so you have "Cleaving" weapons, and then a pick does +1 vs. stone and an axe does +1 vs. wood.

As for material types, I really do suggest giving each material a modifier to apply to the weapon. Perhaps one material is hard to damage but brittle, so that when you damage it it usually breaks. Each one can have a modifier for weapons and one for armor. Again, the group can easily create new materials and apply the template to all the existing equipment. Or add new equipment and apply the old templates to it.

You could have a second set of templates for condition. "New", "Shoddy", "Rusty", "Broken", etc. This lets someone buy a really nice leather handbag for more money and it has a mechanical effect in the game. Or they can ignore the condition templates to make the game simpler.

As for spells - do you have two spells that do the same sort of thing? Cut one. Your canon list of spells is the starting point for people making their own, trying to balance against what's in the system already. You want to describe as many different examples as possible. If you have a both Fireball and a Big Fireball, you're missing out on an opportunity for Buoyancy or Stone Eater.

Do you have two monsters that use the same schtick? Cut one. If you have a Giant who can do knockback with his club, or snatch-and-hurl, or throwing boulders, that's very cool mechanically and it should be a different monster from the Orc. If you have both an Orc and a Big Orc you're missing the opportunity to put in a Moon Girl or a Root Dog.

People who pick up your game and look it over are going to say, "Does this game do something mechanically that's awesome and makes me want to play using these rules?" and "Does this game contain a huge amount of awesome fat stuff that inspires and excites?"
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 10, 2014, 08:17:11 pm
Rather than starting with a number of things you want to have in each category, try paring it down until you can't have any fewer. For example, you could have armor in the Light, Medium, and Heavy categories. If you want Mail to behave differently from Scale somehow, start by calling it Medium armor and then add some modifier because it's Scale. That way a gaming group could get away with saying "we're gonna do a simple game this time, no armor type modifications." With weapons, you could probably pare it down to 15 types and still capture a lot of variety. Is a quarterstaff so very different from a bo staff? Perhaps you could list weapons based on what they do, so you have "Cleaving" weapons, and then a pick does +1 vs. stone and an axe does +1 vs. wood.

Taken to the logical conclusion, you could get away with "generic melee weapon", "generic ranged weapon", and "armor". No names, no types, just numbers. I actually tried this for a while and...well...people hated it. Players love variety, and I've provided it by making each weapon/armor/etc. different in how they interact. The falchion is a one-handed sword that ignores nonmetal armor, because it's a cross between a sword and a hatchet. The greatsword is two handed, deals much more damage, but causes you to take a Velocity (Initiative, for D&D players,) penalty. The estoc is a sword meant specifically to ignore plate armor, but it's not as useful against chain or banded mail, or what have you. There are a ton of spears, but they all do different things. Example: You can use the low powered Guisarme to trip your opponent and leave them defenseless for a round, or use a halberd to devastating effect against mounted enemies. There are a couple dozen accessories in the "armor" category, like rings, bracelets, pauldrons and sabatons, but they're mostly stackable enchantment fodder. Finally, I stuck with wanting 100 weapon and armor types for a really simple reason. It makes random item lists really easy.

As for material types, I really do suggest giving each material a modifier to apply to the weapon. Perhaps one material is hard to damage but brittle, so that when you damage it it usually breaks. Each one can have a modifier for weapons and one for armor. Again, the group can easily create new materials and apply the template to all the existing equipment. Or add new equipment and apply the old templates to it.

This is already going in. Spot on.

You could have a second set of templates for condition. "New", "Shoddy", "Rusty", "Broken", etc. This lets someone buy a really nice leather handbag for more money and it has a mechanical effect in the game. Or they can ignore the condition templates to make the game simpler.

This is already sort of in, but equipment wear isn't. If someone fails a crafting check by a small margin, they can produce "flawed", "shoddy" or "crude" items. They take a penalty to the power of the item (damage for weapons, defense for armor,) but it beats losing the materials to scrap. Flawed items can usually be found in shops, shoddy and crude generally are not. That said, if someone overshoots a crafting check, they can produce higher quality gear, up to a certain point.

As for spells - do you have two spells that do the same sort of thing? Cut one. Your canon list of spells is the starting point for people making their own, trying to balance against what's in the system already. You want to describe as many different examples as possible. If you have a both Fireball and a Big Fireball, you're missing out on an opportunity for Buoyancy or Stone Eater.

Magic is kind of a finicky thing in my game. You see, everyone starts with an Elemental Weakness and Affinity. So, if your Affinity is Fire, your weakness would be water. This is kind of a double edged sword in some cases. You can do huge damage with Fire magic, but there are only two healing spells in the whole set, one of which is the Master Spell. (Spells are broken into tiers, Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, and Master.) You could still use Water magic to get the healing spells within, but you're only going to heal half of what you normally would because of your Elemental Weakness. Instead, that player could focus on Life Magic, which does a whole lot of other things (trade Mist Form for Angel Wings, for one,) or go to the (generally) more powerful Ritual Magic, which has a subset of Miracles, but they require reagents to work. There's a lot of choices, with little overlap.

Do you have two monsters that use the same schtick? Cut one. If you have a Giant who can do knockback with his club, or snatch-and-hurl, or throwing boulders, that's very cool mechanically and it should be a different monster from the Orc. If you have both an Orc and a Big Orc you're missing the opportunity to put in a Moon Girl or a Root Dog.

Monsters are pretty well varied. There's a little bit of overlap, but each monster has different drops, to use an MMO term. Whitecaps are weaker than Redcaps (which are vampiric), but can be turned into valuable materials for healing items, which the poisonous Redcap cannot. I'll probably have to go back over my Enemy Combatants (people to fight) list and eliminate a little bit of overlap, but that's going to be a little harder. There are, after all, only so many jobs a person can do.

People who pick up your game and look it over are going to say, "Does this game do something mechanically that's awesome and makes me want to play using these rules?" and "Does this game contain a huge amount of awesome fat stuff that inspires and excites?"
Yes, they are, and I'm doing my best to ensure that the answer to both of those questions is, "Yes."
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 12, 2014, 01:10:39 am
Update: the next step is assigning values to the items, how much material they take to make, how long they take to make, how difficult they are to make, and how much they cost. Swords are finished. The rest of the weapons and armor will probably be finished tomorrow, and then I'll work on miscellaneous items, like tents, backpacks, healing items and whatnot.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Bauglir on January 12, 2014, 12:02:08 pm
Wow, you are making hella progress! Keep that burn going, buddy.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 12, 2014, 05:29:50 pm
Wow, you are making hella progress! Keep that burn going, buddy.
Thanks, man. I restructured the way I'm keeping notes, to prevent losing things, and it's been a real revelation. I only hope I can keep up the pace.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 13, 2014, 02:09:24 am
Update: Every weapon and piece of armor now has: A "power rating" (attack or defense), difficulty to make, number of materials used to make, number of checks to make, a price, the weapons have number of hands used in wielding, and bonuses are mostly done, although I have to figure out a way to differentiate cloaks from capes, unless I want to swap in different pieces of armor (which I may.) Either way, 200 entries done. On to "other" items!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Bauglir on January 13, 2014, 02:13:29 am
Perhaps weather protection? I would expect a cloak, with its hood and (maybe?) heavier material, to be a bit better against wind and rain, although I don't know what the drawback would be to balance it out.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 13, 2014, 02:14:17 am
I was thinking maybe stealth, because of the hood. Possibly intimidation, due to Batman. Not sure.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: tompliss on January 13, 2014, 10:28:01 am
the weapons have number of hands used in wielding
Have you considered the size differences between (possible) races ?
Maluses for an Orc wielding a dagger made for a gnome/dwarf/other little race ?
Maluses for a gnome wielding a 2h club from an Orc (because it's magical and he wants the special effects) ?
On the same theme, how possible is it for a bulky warrior to wear the armor made for a smaller race ?

About weapon sizes, how do their damage scale ? (a dice ladder, maybe ?)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Yoink on January 13, 2014, 10:30:18 am
This game is looking pretty intense so far, looking forward to playing it someday. :)

...All this talk of bladed weaponry has also rekindled my desire to learn to hit things with swords.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 13, 2014, 02:20:19 pm
This game is looking pretty intense so far, looking forward to playing it someday. :)
Thanks!

the weapons have number of hands used in wielding
Have you considered the size differences between (possible) races ?
Maluses for an Orc wielding a dagger made for a gnome/dwarf/other little race ?
Maluses for a gnome wielding a 2h club from an Orc (because it's magical and he wants the special effects) ?
On the same theme, how possible is it for a bulky warrior to wear the armor made for a smaller race ?

About weapon sizes, how do their damage scale ? (a dice ladder, maybe ?)
Weapons scale linearly. No extra dice, unless they have a bonus, just a bigger base power. Different sized armor is specifically for the character size it's meant for. Humans cannot wear small (Dwarf, Halfling, etc.) armor, because it's too small, just as Dwarves can't wear Fae armor, because it's meant for someone 6" tall. Humans can wear most armor, as in the random loot table, there is a 20% chance of armor being small, and a 10% chance of it being large (for large beastmen [like minotaurs], treefolk, ogres and trolls.) Tiny armor has to be custom made (with the Jewelry proficiency), and most Fae don't bother. Faeries in general do not use weapons or armor, as their magic is extremely powerful, and given the right spells, they can summon full sized weapons and shields to protect them. Small folk, like Halflings and Gnomes, usually just stick to one handed weapons, like the Katzbalger, or daggers and such. Dwarves, on the other hand, have the strength to wield two-handed weapons without a penalty. Large folk can have weapons custom made for them (or make it themselves), or can wield normal two-handed weapons in one hand.

I'm thinking about removing some of the mundane weapons that are actually not weapons, like chains, scepters, and riding crops, and putting in some larger variants of other things, like great maces, or a mega-greatsword [like a western variant of the Odachi?] or something.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: kisame12794 on January 14, 2014, 01:02:33 am
Posting to watch and provide my smithing experience if desired.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 30, 2014, 01:08:46 am
Update: I'm slowly working on touching up the metals and other materials list. Stuff like this always freaks me out a little bit, because it's so essential to so many aspects of the game. Then again, when I finish the materials and write down the rules to building, you'll be able to build buildings with specialized rooms and such (like forges, workshops, altars, gambling dens, trap hallways, etc.) from scratch or from templates, as well as hack through doors and walls. The biggest thing is equipment making, though. You'll be able to buy in bulk, that way you can have 1000 mercenaries all making their own weapons and armor, with your crafting and leadership determining the average quality.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on January 30, 2014, 11:52:38 pm
Update again: I've narrowed my list down to 100 materials even. The lists aren't even, as I'd like them to be, but...some materials are more interesting than others. Metal is going to see way more use than cloth or wood, so it gets more options.
Spoiler: 19 Stone types (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 14 Wood types (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 12 Cloth types (click to show/hide)

100 even, even if the categories aren't. Any feedback would be appreciated, of course.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: mastahcheese on January 31, 2014, 12:46:00 am
I've read nothing of this but the first post and what's on this page.
But I so want to try this, or at least look over it.
So I guess this is a Post to get around to reading later.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on February 27, 2014, 02:54:14 am
Made some progress tonight. Revamping lineages again. Sorted them by size, and there are now 16 Lineages to choose from, as well as various options therein. Wolfeyez and I are going to run a pseudo-beta test tomorrow to see exactly what needs to get done next.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on February 27, 2014, 02:07:15 pm
Yay progress! :D
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: ShadowHammer on February 27, 2014, 06:09:55 pm
I've read nothing of this but the first post and what's on this page.
But I so want to try this, or at least look over it.
So I guess this is a Post to get around to reading later.
Same for me, except I looked at a bit of the second page too.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: syvarris on February 27, 2014, 11:43:17 pm
I've actually been semi-following this thread for awhile, but never posted in it.  So I'd like to say that this game looks awesome, and I'm eager to see it finished.  I'll be supporting it once the kickstarter comes around, certainly.  Hopefully people can set up a B12 game.

As for feedback on materials (a month late, I know)... Which glass is the "standard" type?

And maybe you should include flesh as a natural material?  For disturbed cultist items, like furniture made out of people.  Or for being in a enormous building that's actually a giant creature, so you can hack through 'walls'.  Unless your system already has a way to deal with those.

Might be a bad idea though- including flesh could lead to problems with people calculating how many raw structural hitpoints a human body has, and munchkining stuff from that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on February 27, 2014, 11:53:07 pm
I appreciate the feedback, doodz! At one point, flesh was a structural material, but that very munchkining happened, so I had to remove it. For the cultist items, you could always use human bones. Leaded Glass is the standard glass type.

Progress for tonight: Wolfeyez played five hours of a campaign which was mostly economy based, and nothing broke horribly. The mechanics all held up to light scrutiny, but I need to fix the character sheet.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: chaoticag on March 02, 2014, 08:02:03 am
Horray for things not bursting into flames unless they were meant to!

Though yeah, the game sounds pretty complex, and a well organised character sheet is a good way to help sort things into easing the player into the system. So good luck with that.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 02, 2014, 09:35:16 am
I'll probably just toss it into Illustrator and resize stuff, giving me room to add missing categories.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 03, 2014, 06:09:12 pm
Actually having wounds be based off the structural durability of flesh and bone could be a good way to handle injuries. Fighting skill, luck, divine intervention, magic, armor, etc. would help prevents those wounds from happening.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Facekillz058 on March 03, 2014, 07:44:28 pm
I never actually looked at this game in detail before but holy crap I want now.
ME WANT NOW
During this summer I'll totally be available late at night to help test.
EDIT: I HAD QUESTIONS:
Do you have a name for the game planned out yet?
How about a setting?

I could totally dig my mind for ideas for either if you're interested. Past ideas though, I'd be useless to you.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 03, 2014, 08:15:16 pm
Facekillz: I have both (two possible names, actually, and a fully fleshed out world,) but I appreciate the interest.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on March 04, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Spoilered because of its irrelevance to this current thread

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 04, 2014, 12:09:12 pm
Spoilered because of its irrelevance to this current thread

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hehehehehehe. ^_^
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: RiordanIX on March 11, 2014, 10:11:24 pm
I really like the things you've told us about the system, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the final version. Do you know any small publishers who can print the book? I've always been curious how one does small time book printing and selling.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 11, 2014, 10:44:10 pm
I'm probably going to self-publish, when it comes time.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 17, 2014, 10:05:45 pm
As of right now, the numbers for all Enemy Combatants are finished. That includes humans and humanoids (Elf, Dwarf, et al,) from Peasant to Overlord, and Sapient Monsters, from Imp to Master Fiend. 100 in all.

Next up: Monsters.

Edit: Three hours of number crunching (and a little bit of goofing off) later, 100 monsters are finished. The only "combat" list I have to finish is animals, and that's not terribly essential.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on March 18, 2014, 12:50:00 pm
Whoo! Now you can make delightful meatchunks :D
(Or iron chunks? Just how flexible is the materials system? :P )
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 18, 2014, 01:58:27 pm
Pretty flexible. Some enemies will be butcherable for rare  metals and wood.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 19, 2014, 12:34:52 am
Speaking of metals, all 35 metals are now specced out. I should update the OP at some point.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on March 19, 2014, 06:59:02 am
Just read through the whole thread, in a few sittings, and I must say, this looks extremely interesting. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of macuahuitl in the weapon list, but ah well, that's what templates are for.
Anyway, I'm watching this. Closely.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 31, 2014, 01:36:07 am
Just spent several hours testing with Wolfeyez and a friend. Nothing broke, and we switched from management to adventure pretty seamlessly. In fact, I didn't even tell them that I was doing so, the story just kind of flowed that way.

I need to come up with a bunch of things that can happen between days in a management game, as it can feel a little grindy, although that's the purpose of management. I just want to spruce it up a little.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on April 01, 2014, 12:16:46 am
Wolfeyez and DrummerFriend played for another handful of hours. They ran another several smooth transitions between management and adventure, mostly exploring a mine that was actually part mine, part deathtrap. They acquired some really rare metal on an insanely good roll by DrummerFriend and a couple of pieces of good loot after a couple of pretty intense battles in which Wolfeyez almost died twice. Tailoring works okay, but I need to put together a materials/price list for the various leathers that are available. DrummerFriend is plotting to use his animal training skill to raise an army. An army of battle-cows.

There are a couple of further mechanics that I really want to test out, but they're rather large and unwieldy at the moment, and they really need to be streamlined before I put them into play. Military, for one, and random loot tables, as well. (I need to re-write the loot tables to reflect my current quantity of gear. It would also help if I ever found the old one, which I suspect is still at my parents' house. Somewhere.)

FakeEdit: I have the cloth and various leathers done now. That was much faster than anticipated. I'll see if I can do stone tomorrow.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on April 02, 2014, 05:31:38 pm
Did a huge quantity of work today. I totally screwed up the balance of materials, but in the end, that never really mattered. Bonus, though, Wolfeyez is now officially helping me work on the actual game, instead of just testing. She's hard at work on a list of aquatic animals (32/100 complete!) What I did today: Tweaked leather so that it makes more sense, added 2 types. Finished 19 stone types, 21 Wood types, 13 Glass/Stoneware types, 8 types of Horns/Antlers, 11 types of Teeth/Tusks (I may be adding more here,) 13 types of Shells/Scales, 11 types of Claws, 10 Bone types, 11 Feather types, 10 Fur/Pelt types (I may be adding more later,) and got started on the Animals list.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on April 15, 2014, 11:10:52 pm
I don't know how many of you are still reading this, but work is continuing. Wolfeyez is expanding/revamping the spell system as we speak, and I'm working on a random loot table.
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2014, 11:11:30 pm
I'm still reading, and interested. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: tompliss on April 16, 2014, 02:44:37 am
Still following as well.
It may not end exactly as the type of RPG I play with my friends, but I like what you seem to be doing with your system. The whole procedural side of it makes it ideal for the type of helping software I told you about, so I think I'll stay around until I can do something about that :p
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on April 16, 2014, 03:28:34 am
Still reading :)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on April 16, 2014, 03:52:31 am
I'm following this.
As if you need any more encouragment  ;)
Title: Re: Pen & Paper RPG. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 15, 2014, 07:05:23 pm
I'm following this.
As if you need any more encouragment  ;)
I need all the encouragement I can get, man, and I appreciate every word. Putting together two things at the moment: a) specialized effects for enchanting, and b) military combat. Just notes for the moment, and after a while of brewing them in my head, I'll suddenly write everything down with serious alacrity.

Edit: Wrote up a huge table for enchanting. No random enchantment table, as blessings and curses is enough.
Title: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 15, 2014, 10:11:27 pm
For everyone who's still paying attention, I just updated the OP with lots more information on what the game really is.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on May 15, 2014, 10:13:23 pm
0_o

That sounds like an unbelievably good game.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 15, 2014, 10:26:51 pm
Here's to hoping.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 17, 2014, 08:56:14 pm
Just found this thread again, and I continue to be amazed by your progress through this, as well as what it sounds like it's turning out as.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: scriver on May 18, 2014, 06:55:40 am
/me rises from lurkhood.

IT HAS A NAME
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 18, 2014, 09:03:00 am
Yep. It's had a name for several years now, but I was worried about releasing it for fear that it'd never get done and I'd look like an idiot for putting the cart before the horse. Anyway, I've released the name of the game to drum up some interest, hopefully. I'm seriously considering putting a donate button somewhere, but I'm not sure how I feel about that at this stage. I still have a lot of writing to do.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 07, 2014, 10:55:12 pm
Question for you all: How much money do you think I should ask for should I decide to Kickstart this beast? I need an editor, an artist, and of course, the cost of actually making the books.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Xantalos on July 07, 2014, 10:58:02 pm
...no idea honestly. It'll likely vary depending on how long you take to make it.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: adwarf on July 07, 2014, 11:29:18 pm
Question for you all: How much money do you think I should ask for should I decide to Kickstart this beast? I need an editor, an artist, and of course, the cost of actually making the books.
I'd say figure out how much you need to make X amount of the books, and then start looking around at editors and artists to find someone you like and try to work something out with them first. Once you have that total up the cost of that, add a tiny bit, and then use that as a basis though I've never had to do something like that so I'm really just telling you what I'd probably do in the situation. Either way looking forward to it, will most definitely help kickstart it because you need to take my money already darnit.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on July 08, 2014, 03:16:49 am
As for actual figures, my guess is $5-$15 for the pdf and $20-$50 for the book, the latter depending on number of pages and hardcover/softcover, the former on how much the developer wants to earn ;)

I'd go with adwarf's suggestion really, find out how much it costs to print books in small (50? 100?) volumes. If you get more interest than what you estimated, you might get greater bulk discounts, but I wouldn't take them into account yet. You can give the money you save back as stretch goal rewards if you want.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Kadzar on July 08, 2014, 11:53:39 am
I don't know much about this stuff, but I just today I happened across a Small RPG Publisher's Guide (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4qCWY8UnLrcVVVNWG5qUTUySjg&usp=sharing) written by Kevin Crawford (https://plus.google.com/115055273425645223134/posts), best known as the creator of Stars Without Number. While maybe not the best known brand, he's put out an impressive amount of work for what is essentially a one-man publishing house. And both his Kickstarters (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1637945166/scarlet-heroes-rpg) succeeded their goals by quite a lot while being delivered in a very timely fashion (he goes over crowdsourcing in the guide).
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 08, 2014, 01:34:51 pm
Much appreciation. Taking a look now.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 13, 2014, 12:25:07 am
NotDoublePost: Looks like I'm going to wind up with about 9 hours of alone time tomorrow. Taking suggestions for what to work on.

Major items, in no particular order:
Mind you, most of this stuff already has work done on it, I'm just not sure where to focus my efforts. Thus, I ask you all! Guide me, oh noble B12!
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: tompliss on July 13, 2014, 08:06:40 am
Lineages appear to be an aspect that is mostly neglected in most mainstream RPG... I think that having a way to make it influence a game easily for the GM and an easy way for the players to integrate it in their character (or even create the character from the lineage) could really add soemthing particular to a RPG :)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Yoink on July 13, 2014, 10:15:23 am
Good gods, it has a name! :o
I have no idea which of those you should work on, though. Shop Management jumps out at me for some reason, I've no idea why, though. Exciting to see all this progress regardless!
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: FowlJ on July 13, 2014, 08:23:11 pm
It's hard to judge exactly without a greater knowledge of what's done and how everything works (not that I blame you if you're planning on printing and selling it, it just makes it hard to accurately give advice) but if I had to make just a general suggestion of direction it would be to get the mechanical stuff out of the way first so that you can make sure everything works, and then make it all pretty-like.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 13, 2014, 08:30:32 pm
That's fair enough, I guess. My next work will probably be on a "bare-bones" version of all the mechanical stuff I haven't written down yet, and I can fill in the gaps from there. Should actually make it a little bit easier to get parts of it finished.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 15, 2014, 12:50:45 am
Bare bones list of rules is started. I'll write some more on it after work tomorrow. Any suggestions as to what should go in it for beta purposes?
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 16, 2014, 05:35:50 am
Next day post: Did a smidgen of work on the bare bones list of rules. Slept most of the day after work due to a migraine. Work will continue later.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: sjm9876 on July 17, 2014, 07:02:00 am
This keeps sounding better and better :)
And it now has a name. Threw me for a second when the thread title changed :P
Keep it up :D
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2014, 07:03:07 pm
This keeps sounding better and better :)
+1

Also, you really must add the potato as a fearsome enemy.

It is only logical.
At least have it as a weapon.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 26, 2014, 10:59:51 am
It's a crop that you can grow, and you can use anything as a 0 power weapon, so...

Anyway, I made a little bit of progress on the bare-bones kit. Not much, but progress is progress.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: chaoticag on July 29, 2014, 05:18:00 pm
Hmm. Man, I really don't want to say this, but the game's name sounds... awfully generic to me. Like the kinda thing that I'd gloss over for something else. Is it a work in progress, or are you pretty set on the name?
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 29, 2014, 07:41:03 pm
Hmm. Man, I really don't want to say this, but the game's name sounds... awfully generic to me. Like the kinda thing that I'd gloss over for something else. Is it a work in progress, or are you pretty set on the name?
Working title. I may change it again if I can come up with something more exciting, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Tawa on July 29, 2014, 09:21:11 pm
The "Neo Dreams" part is kinda what threw me off. It sounds more like the name of some kind of Matrix ripoff than a fantasy RPG.

The "Chronicles of Avarsiin" is pretty cool, though.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 29, 2014, 09:39:29 pm
I've been thinking of just leaving it at that for a while now, but thought it sounded too generic.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on July 30, 2014, 03:59:47 am
Well, the Neo Dreams part does make it sound sci-fi/cyberpunk, makes me think of shadowrun/paranoia/... Not only the Neo-matrix reference, but Neo has a tech/future feel to it1. And it clashes a bit with the "Chronicles of Avarsiin", which sounds very fantasy-y. I'd have to agree with Tawarochir. Maybe there's something else you could put instead of "Neo Dreams"? Or just change "Neo"?
"_____ Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin" might work perfectly. Even using some over-clichéd word for the blank, like "forgotten" or "ancient" or so.

1Although that may be purely the subconscious matrix stuff.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: chaoticag on July 30, 2014, 02:35:12 pm
I guess part of it kinda sounds like a novel you'd find in a fantasy section rather than a fantasy RPG. Something like Navarsiinian Trance: The Role Playing Game could get the idea across. For people that run across the name, they can punch it into google, and for people that have no idea, the words after the colon gives them an idea of what it is. I used trance rather than dreams, because I think dreams at this point prolly would lead to a thousand other things, while trance has a sharper image to the name (Dreamers of Navarsiin would also be good too).

My two cents anyway, but if it's a working title, maybe keep it that way for now.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 01, 2014, 07:37:52 am
Did some arranging of a couple of the systems last night. No major news, but it's still getting worked on.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Worldmaster27 on August 02, 2014, 09:12:15 am
I just finished reading all that, and your game sounds amazing.

So PTW.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 02, 2014, 11:59:17 am
Thank you! I appreciate the input and hope to have more updates for you guys soon.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Worldmaster27 on August 17, 2014, 09:16:43 pm
(http://imghumour.com/assets/Uploads/Warning-thread-bump.jpg)
So how's it going?
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 18, 2014, 01:20:06 am
Slowly. Work has taken a serious toll on my free time. That said, I have the bare bones skeleton of the book restarted, and plan on using that for beta testing. Need to finish writing down and compiling rules for proficiencies, finish simple combat rules, balancing lineages, get rules for loot in order, and finish the buildings section. I'd be willing to beta at that point, although there would be zero fluff.

Really lamenting my lack of programming ability. There's so much I want to do with the game that would be amazing in a roguelike. Even just a random loot table would be awesome.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on August 18, 2014, 03:45:28 am
Even just a random loot table would be awesome.
That's easy enough, feel free to shoot me a PM with the specifics if you want me to program one for you.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 21, 2014, 07:33:16 am
Just a heads up, all. EagleV is making pretty good progress on that Random Loot Table. Cheer him on!
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on August 21, 2014, 02:02:52 pm
*Cheers*
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on August 21, 2014, 02:40:37 pm
Just another heads up, MZ is exaggerating. No need for cheers (though I appreciate it, Th4DwArfY1  :P)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 21, 2014, 03:50:18 pm
You've already got the basic portion of the program done. I'm cheering.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Worldmaster27 on August 21, 2014, 03:59:24 pm
/me cheers!
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 22, 2014, 05:57:02 pm
Update on the loot table: I was monkeying with the file that houses all the items, and knew that we've got something special when I rolled up the "Black Wolfram Javelin of Lightning." Oh, yes, this is fun. I'm going to enjoy putting a bunch of other stuff in here, too, like armor and boots and whatnot.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on September 24, 2014, 07:04:13 pm
Alright, all, I have a question. I want to write descriptions of items, but I have no idea how much to write. A single paragraph seems like far too little detail for a weapon, but if I go into extended detail about all of the items, the book will be several thousand pages long, and that's unfortunately unacceptable.

How much is enough? How much is too much?
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Worldmaster27 on September 24, 2014, 07:51:45 pm
Can you give an example of what a paragraph would include and how long it is?

I don't know what the average length of a weapon description would be, but a mid-sized/longish paragraph sounds like it would be plenty if not overkill.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Arx on September 28, 2014, 06:10:16 am
If you haven't resolved it already, I'd say you don't need more than fifteen or twenty words for a bog standard weapon, and then scale upwards as the weapon gets cooler. A javelin would be something like "A short spear designed for ease of throwing. Functions adequately as a melee weapon", whereas a Black Wolfram Javelin of Lightning would be significantly longer, possibly including something about its background and the special qualities of its material.

Also, posting to watch.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SilverDragon on October 01, 2014, 06:32:44 am
A bit late as well, but I'll add my thoughts.

Maybe make it a small description, I suppose? What it is, for example, 'A longsword is a blade with an extended reach,' then the material, 'made of steel,' and then who commonly uses it, 'used by shock footsoldiers around the world.' See? That's my idea, at least. Still looks pretty great, though.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: TD1 on October 01, 2014, 10:43:27 am
Small descriptions are a must...unless it's a specialised weapon, that people will not mind reading about, then keep it short enough so that they don't just look at it and see text that they don't want to read.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Omeganaut on November 11, 2014, 02:19:12 pm
This sounds awesome, and I can't wait.  I would advise just getting the system and format for each kind of thing you want to have, whether it be material, weapon, spell, god, lineage, etc.  Come up with a few examples, and then move on.  Once the basics are in place, the system can be expanded by GM's as well as you.  I know you want a self-contained system, but I'm pretty sure others will no matter what if your system is as good as it seems to be.  You can release add-ons so that the main rulebook isn't an encyclopedia.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Howando on December 30, 2014, 05:02:14 pm
Writing descriptions can be tricky.  It's best when you can summon up the essence of the item in a few words.  "This spear is 6 feet long, the wooden shaft ends in a steel tip with an evil looking barb.  It feels well balanced and perfect for throwing."  Apart from some stats and specials, what more is needed?  But for items that are unique or have lore associated with them, you might want a couple of paragraphs to get across the story and the essence of it, because that's the whole point of the game is that kind of atmosphere.

You can also utilise broader class descriptions to produce shorter item descriptions.  If all magical staves in your world are huge ornate wonders covered in gruesome carvings topped by a huge glowing orb, you can just explain that is the case in the relevant section and then your item descriptions can just highlight the detail, "The figures carved on this staff appear to be engaged in a gleeful orgy of fire and death.  When you raise it above your head the dark red orb is filled with an intense light."  If you have to break the mould a little and maybe one staff is smooth or made of twisted metal or the knob is a small amethyst, you can compare it to the standard type to draw on that overall impression still, and highlight what is interesting.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 08, 2015, 09:50:47 am
Well, guys, this is it. I'm necromancing the thread one more time for a particular cause. I've been largely unable to work on the game for quite some time due to highly unstable work/living conditions, and now I'm drowning in debt. I'm seriously considering setting up a GoFundMe page or Kickstarter or Indiegogo or something, but I'm not sure what the reaction to said page would be, or even if it's worth doing.

This damned game should be finished by now. It should have been finished years ago. I spend all my free time trying to relax from work or being stressed about living arrangements, or freelancing, or being dragged into court/lawyers' offices/what have you by my ex wife. I'm emotionally drained, mentally petered out, and physically exhausted. I'm frustrated that I've taken so long to even get to the point that I have, and it feels like the finish line will never be crossed at this pace.

On the flip side, I'm also extraordinarily nervous about putting my work out into the public arena. Every word I've ever put to page has been shredded by people I used to hold very dear, and every time I open the file to work on it, I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: EagleV on May 08, 2015, 02:43:50 pm
Well, first of all, that's sad to hear. From what little you can know about people on the other side of a forum, you sound like a great guy and I hope you get in a better situation soon.

Secondly, about your game.
I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.
It's your time. Even if you were wasting it, it'd be yours to waste, and you are not. You are working on something, creating something you and others (me, for one) believe in, and that is always worth doing. It's also worth doing well, and that costs time. I'm fairly certain people were telling Gygax was wasting time. Or Zuckerberg. Or any of the other Fathers Of Great Things. Of course, for every FOGT, there are many people that are less lucky, but even if this becomes a relatively unknown or niche game, it'll be great to have.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?
I think you should. Of course, the amount of material you have to show is difficult to guess, and I don't know how much you're willing to show before completion - from what I remember, not too much. There is certainly potential, and I, for one, would be happy to send a little boost your way. Importantly, if your kickstarter fails, nothing is lost in terms of money: "If funding isn't successful, there are no fees." One bad thing I see happening is that if it should fail, it would be another blow to your morale, which is worth considering. Still, with the quality that I think your stuff will have, you could certainly be successfull in a well-planned kickstarter campaign.

As you might have guessed, people say I'm a bit naive. I'm also bad at explaining feely stuff. And I seem to use way too many clichés. But I hope you go on with this, one way or another, many other b12ers seem to think so too, and I think that's what you need to be reminded of.

As an afterthought, I'm sure you'll find reviewers aplenty on these forums if you need some feedback before you go public.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Kadzar on May 08, 2015, 10:12:27 pm
I'll echo the first part of what EagleV said (or, at least, the parts before and after the first quote), but disagree with him on the idea of Kickstarter being a good idea. Because it's not. At least, not for your first time trying to publish something.

For one thing, you only have so long to try to sell your game. And in that time, you need to promote the hell out of it. I'm sure there are some people who approach Kickstarter with the philosophy of "if we build it, they will come", but I've never heard of anyone like that actually getting funded.

Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point. If you want anybody besides friends/family/a few morbidly curious strangers to invest in your game, you'll want a name involved that, at the very least, a few hundred people can recognize and trust. That, or celebrity endorsement. If you can't offer that, people are at least going to want a very good demonstration of what they're paying for, if they don't have a sample of anyone's previous work to go by or somebody they know to tell them it's good.

And even if you do manage to get funded, there are all kinds of potential pitfalls in the process of fulfillment. For one thing, you better damn well account for any potential costs you'll accrue in trying to get people's orders to them, and then be prepared for all kinds of hidden costs you never even considered to sneak up and screw you in the bum. And unless whatever publisher you plan to use is willing to handle shipping for you, consider just how much time it would take you to personally handle the shipping orders of several hundred backers (Really, if you plan to ship anything yourself, it should probably only be for Limited tiers).


Really, as someone new to the RPG publishing scene, I'd recommend going the Print-On-Demand/PDF distribution route (actually, I'd even encourage industry professionals to at least include it in their repertoire, and most of them actually do). Lulu (http://www.lulu.com/sell) and DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/join.php) are the two that I can think of most readily, and, unless I'm misunderstanding something, there aren't fees to be paid so much as just that they take a cut of each sale, and you don't have to reach some arbitrary goal to actually make money (there's probably a minimum amount of money you need to make before they cut you a check, but it should be much less than you'd ask for a Kickstarter).

Alright, so looking into it, they do charge some minor fees, but that's only to cover the cost of book printing or, in Lulu's case, a very minor one to cover the cost of PDF hosting. After aforementioned fees, Lulu takes 10% for PDFs and 20% for books, while DriveThruRPG takes 30-35% for either, depending on whether or not you are an exclusive partner with them (exclusivity only applies to distributing digital formats, like PDFs and such).

So so far, Lulu looks like it's winning by pure numbers, but don't count DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/index.php) out yet. While Lulu is just generally a PDF/print-on-demand site, DTRPG is a devoted RPG store, with categorization by things like genre and rule system, and boasting a wide selection of titles, including some from such famous publishers as Fantasy Flight Games, White Wolf, and even freaking Wizards of the Coast, just to name a few (basically, pretty much everyone who doesn't already have their own PDF store). So it's the kind of place where you're more likely to be seen by your target demographic, whereas on Lulu, as best I can tell, if you're look for RPGs you have to search through the Games (https://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/books/games/cUS_LULU_BOOKS-cUS_LULU_BOOKS_GAMES-p1.html) section, which also contains things like guides to poker and chess, so it's less than ideal on the user end.

So I'd probably recommend going for both Lulu and DriveThruRPG, since any money you leave on the table by going for the latter is likely made up for by greater exposure. I might check into what it takes to terminate your agreement with them, just in case you feel it's not working out (in either case), and possibly look into what the Exclusive account for DTRPG entails (they mention "enhanced title rotation" and "bonus on-site promotion", but I think getting more information about that would require contacting them directly, which probably isn't a bad thing to do before you get started.

In addition to all this, I'd recommend promoting your game and yourself on other sites (probably RPG-related, though, who knows, some cooking forums might be really interested in what you have to offer). I think you know enough about salesmanship to do this with proper tack, so the last piece of advice I'm going to offer is maybe have a demo version of your product you can direct people to so they can get an idea of what it's like before they put down money. It's something that helps if you don't have a lot of hype in place already.

Alright, that's it from me. Get out there and make your game! (Or in there. You can probably just make your game where you are right now.)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Bauglir on May 08, 2015, 10:19:48 pm
If you do set up something with one of those sites Kadzar mentioned, I will buy a copy. Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy. Can't speak to how well the market at large would fly for you, but if you're able to wrangle the time and energy to put it together I think it may not be a bad scheme.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 08, 2015, 10:56:40 pm
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I really appreciate it. Many warm fuzzies were had this day.

Also:
Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point.
Yeah, no, I totally get that. I'm not terribly marketable as a brand because no one knows who I am and they won't until I have a major product under my belt. On point. That's one of the reasons I was asking if it was even a good idea to use crowdfunding.

Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy.
A couple dozen? I guess if I do this I actually have to think about reasonable price points, eh? (I was thinking less than $20, but that may not be feasable with the aforementioned self-publishing. I was actually looking at Ookoodook (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/index.shtml) as one of my primary markets, alongside things like Order of the Stick books. As well as Amazon/Kindle, B&N/Nook, other mobile media marketplaces, etc. I'm not expecting to sell a ton of physical copies, because a) they're expensive to produce, and b) digital is a lot easier to carry. Then again, people like hardcover books. I sure as hell do. So many options. -.-

Anyway, I'm going to get writing while I watch the baseball game. This should be a nightly ritual for me. I move at the end of the month, so we'll see
what kind of progress has been made at that point and go from there. I'm excited again, you guys. This is the first time in a long time.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Bauglir on May 08, 2015, 11:26:33 pm
For now, though, I'll see if I
That's weird, I didn't see you mention Candlejack. Anyway, I tend to be a bit more willing to shell out for stuff like this, since I do it rarely; a lower price point surely won't hurt, especially if it's digital. Dunno if those sites support pay-what-you-want, but it might be a good i-
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 08, 2015, 11:37:19 pm
Heh. This is what I get for hitting post after midnight.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on May 09, 2015, 12:06:30 am
I also don't see crowdfunding working out very well.

But whatever you do, just don't give up.  Life happens and ideas get put on hold.  So long as you return to them when you can, there's nothing wasted.  If you publish something, I'll probably buy it.  Hope your situation improves.  I saw you mention something elsewhere of a potential major promotion?  Let's get those promotions together!  Interviewing for mine probably next week.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 09, 2015, 12:20:55 am
Well, I've won three district-wide sales contests in a row, and I may be in the running to be recruited by a major company to run my own store. That would put my salary at at least triple what I make now, putting me squarely in the middle class for the first time in my life. That's not factoring in bonuses, whole-store commission, and benefits, which puts me somewhere between 3.5x and 6x what I make a year now.

Fingers crossed. It's a big jump, but I'm ready to take it.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: SalmonGod on May 09, 2015, 12:36:36 am
Mine isn't that big, but still pretty big.  I'm shooting for something in the range of a $18-23k increase in pay, which is like a 60% increase for me.  Will also put me pretty well in the middle class, and doing better than almost anyone I know IRL who isn't at least 10 years older than me.

Keep rocking the bread winning.  Neo Dreams will bloom in time.

(https://ewpopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/predator-05_510.jpg)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 09, 2015, 12:41:34 am
Yeah, I'm starting at a hypothetical $20k-ish/year. Middle class is a loooong way away for me.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I need and appreciate every iota I can get. Nothing else could possibly help me as much right now. (Except cash, but lol.)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 12, 2015, 01:54:57 am
I finished the chart containing all of the animals tonight. So, raw numbers (which I've always found harder than descriptions,) are done for 100 animals, 100 combatants, and 100 monsters, as well as 100 (base) weapons and 100 (base) pieces of armor, 35 metals, 13 types of cloth, 14 types of leather/hide, 19 types of stone, 21 types of wood, 13 types of glass/stoneware, 8 types of horn/antler, 11 types of fangs/teeth, 13 types of shell/scale, 11 types of claw, 10 types of bone, 11 types of feather, and 10 types of fur/pelt.

If you can't find something to fight or craft, that's your own damn fault. I guess this means that the game will be sort-of-dungeon-crawl-able when I a)finish the "other" equipment (bedrolls, torches, professional tool kits, tents, rope, ye flask, rations, medicines, and various other miscellany,) and b) get all this shit put together in the same file. I was a lot closer to that point than I thought I was.

Edit: I did some writing and put down bits and pieces of the backstory of how the afterlife works. Note: the information here is in a very, very rough state and should be treated as such. Also, all of my worldbuilding is completely optional (just like in every other P&P game.) If you want to read it, have at it. I'm not sure how interesting it's going to be, though. Also, the formatting will definitely leave something to be desired, as copy&paste from word doesn't translate well to BBCode. I'm also fairly certain it repeats itself in places. I just needed to get it out of my head. There's a lot more floating around in there (a lot more!) I ran out of time to write.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 15, 2015, 11:41:14 pm
Currently working on finally solidifying everything into one single document. It's going pretty slowly, but it's going.
Title: Re: Neo Dreams: Chronicles of Avarsiin. Pseudo Devlog.
Post by: Pencil_Art on May 16, 2015, 03:19:27 am
PTW. Sounds amazing, and keep it up.