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[voliol]

Will you add graphics raws to the Classic version so implementing custom graphics packs that are compatible both with premium and Classic will be easier? I'm talking about the TXT files in vanilla*_graphics that are present in premium but not in classic, not the art itself.

Is the text in the Premium version not still under a free-to-use license? I thought it was only the image files which were limited (in which case the accompanying .txt files in vanilla*_graphics should be copyable) but might be misremembering.

[darkhog]

Yes, it is, however these graphics raws aren't shipped in Classic, in classic instead of directories full of raws, you get an almost empty folder with an info.txt file that says something to the effect of "for save compatibility".


I'm not asking him to distribute the art, because that's against his contract, but at least have graphics RAWs in there so making a compatible graphic pack is as simple as making proper graphics.


//edit: This is what I mean on the example of "data\vanilla\vanilla_creatures_graphics\graphics" folder which in premium is: https://i.imgur.com/WDn0s6z.png\
And in the classic (winrar screenshot because I can't be bothered to unpack classic): https://i.imgur.com/k4HiEfR.png

Well - there's not even a "graphics" subfolder in vanilla_creatures_graphics which would contain the raw. And the info.txt is: https://i.imgur.com/torgNgL.png
I understand why "images" folder would be either missing, empty, or contained empty images, but the raws should be there so custom tilesets that work both in Classic and Premium could be developed.

[Eric Blank]

If the graphics raws are indeed free to use, then all you'd have to do is incorporate them into a mod loaded after the vanilla raws, and it should work out of the box. Or you could instead copy and paste the raws into the directories in the games vanilla data folders, you'd only have to do it once per installation, and it's something people installing mods manually in the classic version should already be able to do. I would think it's unlikely Toady would include the raws into the vanilla game folders because it could look like attempting to circumvent the terms of the contract through a loophole.

[Bumber]

Looks like the graphics raws define which image file and where in the image the sprite is located, as well as which creatures have multi-tile graphics. Shipping those raws means the image files have to be named and arranged in the exact way as Premium, which isn't particularly desirable when those files don't exist in Classic. (That probably causes errors for any improperly-sized or missing files, doesn't it? And if you provide images with blank tiles, you get invisible creatures rather than some kind of warning or placeholder.)

The tileset maker should instead define their own graphics raws based on the images they're providing. That will overwrite the default whether it's Classic (undefined) or Premium, correct?

[DPh Kraken]

Did the hippo man wrestler in the trailer organically accept to come with, or was there some manipulation behind the scenes? I tend to have trouble recruiting in my adventure games.

[Pillbo]

Will portraits work with non standard races? For example experiments, angels, gorlaks etc?
How will the portrait system work with modded creatures?
Will there be a way to add/modify the sprite layers used to build the faces?
If none are provided will there be some kind of stand in?

[Telgin]

What are the plans to add baby graphics for dwarves and other layered creatures?  Is that on the backburner due to the level of effort?

I've tried to add baby graphics for a modded species using layered graphics and it looks like the game doesn't support it yet, even discounting the lack of graphics.  There doesn't appear to be a [CONDITION_IS_BABY] tag, and trying to use [LAYER_SET:BABY] or [LAYER_SET:CHILD] with dwarf-style graphics raws caused the parser to malfunction as if it didn't expect to see [LAYER_GROUP] or [LAYER] tags beneath it.

[Putnam]

Will you add graphics raws to the Classic version so implementing custom graphics packs that are compatible both with premium and Classic will be easier? I'm talking about the TXT files in vanilla*_graphics that are present in premium but not in classic, not the art itself.

So, problem here: those would cause errors, since the graphics files themselves won't be present. I'm pretty sure Toady's said they're free to upload or whatever, so ideally they should be on the wiki somewhere.

[darkhog]

Looks like the graphics raws define which image file and where in the image the sprite is located, as well as which creatures have multi-tile graphics. Shipping those raws means the image files have to be named and arranged in the exact way as Premium, which isn't particularly desirable when those files don't exist in Classic. (That probably causes errors for any improperly-sized or missing files, doesn't it? And if you provide images with blank tiles, you get invisible creatures rather than some kind of warning or placeholder.)

The tileset maker should instead define their own graphics raws based on the images they're providing. That will overwrite the default whether it's Classic (undefined) or Premium, correct?

I'm fine with naming images the same as Premium (in fact I prefer it so it then works both on Classic and Premium), and having empty images wouldn't be a problem since Classic defaults to using the ASCII renderer anyways, so the invisible graphics won't be rendered anyway, the ASCII stuff will.

[mikekchar]

darkhog, I'll make them for you.  I'm sure it's not that hard.  Just depending on my schedule, it may or may not get done in December :-)

Edit: I've had a bit of a look today.  Indeed, it's not that difficult.  Just trying to wrap my head around what I *think* are the animation sequences.  It's possible that each type of thing has a different notation?  But I'll make a Github repository with my work and you (or anyone else) can start from there.  I'll probably make an "invisible" graphics set which just uses official TXT files, but uses transparent tilesets.  This should mean that everything will work, but that you won't be able to see anything.  I'll also try to document what the TXT files mean and how they relate to the actual tiles if I can figure it out.

(Second edit: doesn't need answering) Toady, please tell me if the TXT files in the graphics directories (for example data/vanilla/vanilla_buildings_graphics/graphics_workshops.txt) are *not* public domain.  I assume they are because I can't imagine being able to make a graphics set without essentially basing it on those.

Second Edit: I notice a clear statement in the readme putting those files in the public domain, so I guess it's good to go.  Going to remove the limegreen since I don't think my query needs answering.

Third (and last) Edit: https://github.com/mikekchar/df-invisible-gs Currently no pngs yet, but hopefully I'll get to it relatively soon.  However, these are all the raw txt files.

[Bumber]

I'm fine with naming images the same as Premium (in fact I prefer it so it then works both on Classic and Premium), and having empty images wouldn't be a problem since Classic defaults to using the ASCII renderer anyways, so the invisible graphics won't be rendered anyway, the ASCII stuff will.

If you're just overwriting images without providing custom raws, that's not really going to work with a partial tileset. The partial tileset needs some raws to say it's only replacing some cows rather than all domestic animals (with invisible squares.) So it's probably not a huge leap do the same and provide (a copy of the vanilla) raws for a complete tileset rather than rely on the vanilla raws being present. Now consider that the vanilla raws can be updated. There's potential problems that can occur if you're relying on the current vanilla raws to accurately describe your tileset, rather than the old raws of your tileset's last update. I can see that updating a complete tileset's raws might be some additional hassle, but you're going to need to know how those changes impact the images anyway.

Anyway, it seems somewhat pointless to include them in Classic if doing so merely shifts the problem. Providing just the raws isn't sufficient to avoid errors. Does Bay12 add a bunch of blank images to the Classic download just to stop those? Providing a minimalist tileset beyond that is probably against contract. Seems like it's up to the community to create one, which might as well be the thing that includes the raws. (You can assume that people using Classic have this installed if you really don't want to include raws with a Premium+Classic tileset.)

I guess one could argue that the vanilla graphics raws should be there as examples, without needing to look at the wiki.

I'll probably make an "invisible" graphics set which just uses official TXT files, but uses transparent tilesets.  This should mean that everything will work, but that you won't be able to see anything.

Actually, why not use something non-transparent at that point, like the industry-standard hideous black and magenta checkerboard? (Solid color works too, I suppose.)

[mikekchar]

Actually, why not use something non-transparent at that point, like the industry-standard hideous black and magenta checkerboard?

Good idea.  Will do.  I have to learn how to use ImageMagick though 

[darkhog]

I'm fine with naming images the same as Premium (in fact I prefer it so it then works both on Classic and Premium), and having empty images wouldn't be a problem since Classic defaults to using the ASCII renderer anyways, so the invisible graphics won't be rendered anyway, the ASCII stuff will.

If you're just overwriting images without providing custom raws, that's not really going to work with a partial tileset. The partial tileset needs some raws to say it's only replacing some cows rather than all domestic animals (with invisible squares.) So it's probably not a huge leap do the same and provide (a copy of the vanilla) raws for a complete tileset rather than rely on the vanilla raws being present. Now consider that the vanilla raws can be updated. There's potential problems that can occur if you're relying on the current vanilla raws to accurately describe your tileset, rather than the old raws of your tileset's last update. I can see that updating a complete tileset's raws might be some additional hassle, but you're going to need to know how those changes impact the images anyway.

Anyway, it seems somewhat pointless to include them in Classic if doing so merely shifts the problem. Providing just the raws isn't sufficient to avoid errors. Does Bay12 add a bunch of blank images to the Classic download just to stop those? Providing a minimalist tileset beyond that is probably against contract. Seems like it's up to the community to create one, which might as well be the thing that includes the raws. (You can assume that people using Classic have this installed if you really don't want to include raws with a Premium+Classic tileset.)

I guess one could argue that the vanilla graphics raws should be there as examples, without needing to look at the wiki.

I'll probably make an "invisible" graphics set which just uses official TXT files, but uses transparent tilesets.  This should mean that everything will work, but that you won't be able to see anything.

Actually, why not use something non-transparent at that point, like the industry-standard hideous black and magenta checkerboard? (Solid color works too, I suppose.)

It will be full graphics replacement, that's why I'm waiting until Adventure mode is released before I start.

[Eric Blank]

So looking at the update news thread; http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8518413#msg8518413

I noticed it mentions you can click on a tile to open a context menu for that tile, but does that option also exist on keyboard, like the way the 'l' and 'k' keys do in the currently released adv mode? Thats a pretty important functionality for keyboard-only support i figure

[voliol]

Are the armor variations seen in the most recent devpost based on item quality?