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Author Topic: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread  (Read 108535 times)

PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2020, 01:55:21 am »
The way DF works currently is that the SMR separates the underworld from the magma sea, which sits below all of the cavern layers. Worldgen parameters can't shuffle the layers around. The hollow core of spires have a set dimension and follows a specific set of rules that are unaffected by whether the distance between features is changed. There's no fixed volume to spires: they're extended as needed to reach the generated destination.
It's probable there's a greater chance/risk of a breach the higher up a spire extends, but the longer the spires are, the more rare they become. If someone was interested, it would be possible to generate a lot of worlds and examine each breach to determine how long the spires that were breached are, but you'd need a lot of samples to get any useful statistics out of it, so it's likely to be a lengthy task. While it shouldn't be too hard to generate a script to identify the breaching sites (find late generated goblin civs and their "founding" sites), determining the exact spire that was breached will probably require generation of the site (adventurer or embark anywhere) followed by a manual examination (it might work to look for "unknown material").
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Rusty_knight

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2020, 12:22:12 am »
Don't know if this was already answered, but is there any way to make caverns less vertically "stretched"?
Because in most worlds I get map around ~90 Z levels deep with cavern layers occupying ~12-18 Z-levels per cavern and I suspect it slows down worldgen and contributes to fps death later...
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2020, 01:20:28 am »
Cavern layer size most likely have no effect at all on world gen as they don't exist at that time, beyond some basic parameters. Caverns are generated only when the world tile (and possibly its neighboring tiles) is visited by an adventurer, or when embarking. A large embark (in volume) may contribute to FPS death to some extent, but I don't think the vertical component has that much of an effect in itself (extensive mining, etc. affects the FPS).

Flat terrain tends to result in shallow embarks, and steep terrain in particular tends to result in vertically extended caverns.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2020, 09:55:53 am »
Quote from: Rusty_knight on June 10, 2020, 12:22:12 am
Don't know if this was already answered, but is there any way to make caverns less vertically "stretched"?
In general, I've found the following to be true in this context.. Use one cavern.  Have a perfectly flat embark.  Have no oceans.  Have a very small disparity between the highest and lowest world tile altitude/height.  By doing that,  you'll end up with the thinnest 'vanilla' embarks.
It should be noted though, by changing one line in the raws, you can have soil->magma in as little as 6 Z levels (with zero caverns), if that's desired.  :o 
Not saying you should, just be aware that it's trivially easy to accomplish that goal.

As far as a thin world goes..
Spoiler: thin-pancake (click to show/hide)
If you gen that world, and embark in the most southeast tile of the most southeast region, the embark depth (with prospect prior to embark) shows as 22 deep.
In detail, after embark, it goes like this: (149 - 127 = 22)
149: Embark
138-134: Single Cavern
132: First possible natural magma forge location
131-127: magma

From embark to forges is exactly 17 Z levels.  That's pretty thin.  8) 
If you embark with a surface volcano, there are definitely situations where the dwarves would have to walk more than 17 steps across the surface from the wagon to the volcano.
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knutor

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2020, 12:22:24 pm »
@PL, Thank you. I had always thought volcanism, played a factor in magma. Now I see, DF things in a new light.

@vjek, that thin worldgen. Did you ever reroll it, with rejects, for the lowest possible subregion count? I see its set 5000, the upper limit. Less subregions, maybe increases thin-ness of overall embarks, in the event that you or another player decided to try another alternative biome to embark upon.
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
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Rusty_knight

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2020, 12:41:36 pm »
I've also noticed another thing in 0.47.04, perhaps a bug: I have almost no ore deposits but tons of gem clusters where applicable (most evident in igneous intrusive layers) and ore variety in general is worse than before (0.34-0.40 if i remember right).
Is this a known problem or something is wrong with my DF?
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2020, 11:08:02 pm »
I think in general, Rusty_knight, that's due to the Mineral Scarcity dropping to 100 from whatever higher value used to be the lowest default.
This has the consequence of more of a "everything is everywhere" feeling, with respect to gems and ores.
You can certainly change it to 100000 or any value in between and get whatever scarcity you desire.
As an example, this is a similar thin world (27 vs. 22 embark depth) with seven Z-Levels containing: dolomite (55k), coal (5k+), and limonite (1.8k) in a 2x2, and a mineral scarcity setting of 100000.
Spoiler: thin-sf (click to show/hide)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #142 on: June 12, 2020, 11:42:55 am »
I just encountered a lake in a muddy cavern, which I didn't think was possible. I did check that it wasn't a matter of it being in a different biome (I've had caverns split between muddy and normal before), but the biome extends a fair bit into the mud, and I haven't found any moss growing underneath the mud anywhere I looked. Spores weren't released until I breached the second cavern.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #143 on: June 13, 2020, 08:57:47 am »
So that means it's possible to have a 'wet' cavern with no moss, no shrubs, and no trees.  Nice find. :)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2020, 09:37:31 am »
Yes, although when looking at it now there is moss, while there was none originally, so breaching the "live" cavern apparently released moss spores to the other caverns.
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PopTart

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #145 on: June 17, 2020, 03:16:10 am »
I'm using an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz. I'm 45 minutes into generating your medium-sized world, and it's on year 501. How on earth did your machine do 1050 years in 38 minutes??

EDIT: 180 minutes for the full 1050-year history


Quote from: jecowa on February 16, 2020, 02:51:24 pm
I found some seeds that don't crash after 1050 years (very long history). Times reported are from a Zen 2 desktop.

Small world, Very Long history (15 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Small world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Small world seed (click to show/hide)

Medium world, Very Long history (38 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Medium world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Medium world seed (click to show/hide)

Large world, Very Long history (1 hour, 35 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Large world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Large world seed (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 05:21:03 am by PopTart »
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #146 on: June 17, 2020, 11:45:28 am »
What you can do to speed up worldgen..

Population Cap After Civ Creation: 5k-10k
Site Cap after Civ Creation: 3-10
Cull Unimportant Historical Figures: Yes
Reveal All Historical Events: No

Changing those to "No Cap", "No Cap", "No", and "Yes", respectively, can dramatically increase worldgen time, with (depending on your goals) difficult-to-justify benefits.

For many of my testing worlds, I set the Popcap after Civ Creation and Site cap both to zero, because it's not relevant to what I'm testing.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 11:47:04 am by vjek »
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knutor

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #147 on: June 27, 2020, 06:09:34 pm »
My new 65x65 Perfectworld took 48hrs of dueling sleepmode to roll history out to 1010. Four million Age of Myth events. 4000+ embark tiles with 4 neighbors. vjen's full range of Temperatures. A truckload of semimegabeasts to exploit trap. 3 cracks into hell. This is part of it...
Code: [Select]
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:Spindle Kings the Worldmakers v1337]
[DIM:65:65]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:1010]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:10:50]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:80:340:400:400]
[RAINFALL:10:90:100:100]
[TEMPERATURE:-103:267:200:200]
[DRAINAGE:30:70:1600:1600]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:0:2500:5000:2500:0]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:250:5500:3000:1000:250]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:0:1000:8000:1000:0]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:600:1337:6126:1337:600]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1500:2000:3000:2000:1500]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:4:5000:0:0:0:5000]
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:1250]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:24]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:4800]
[TITAN_NUMBER:8]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:120:100000:500000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:2]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:1]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:1]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:1]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:5]
[SECRET_NUMBER:25]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:25]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:25]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:1]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:5]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:30:3:1]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:60:6:2]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2400]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:99]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:66]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:99]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:10]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:5]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:5]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:10]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:50]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:15]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:45]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:0]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:15]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:100000]
[SITE_CAP:250]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

JCsuper

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #148 on: June 28, 2020, 09:48:54 am »
If I wanted to have an embark with just one cavern, which is as deep as cavern #3 normally is, what would that look like in advanced world gen?

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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #149 on: June 28, 2020, 10:19:06 am »
'normally' is hard to quantify, but I'll give you an answer in the context of a very thin embark.

If you only have one cavern, it will place it just above the highest point of magma.  If you don't add any extra separation layers manually, it will be separated by 1-3 layers.
That means, from top to bottom (excluding trees) it will proceed as: the embark layer, then soil layers, then some stone, then the top of the cavern, the cavern, the bottom of the cavern, then at least 1-3 stone layers, then magma layers, then the SMR sea.
Caverns are typically 5 layers thick, inclusive, on a flat embark.

Ultimately, how many layers you want between the soil and the top of the cavern is entirely up to you.  "Z Levels Above Layer 1" can be as few as 5, or as many as 100+ stone layers.
if you had three caverns, and each took 5+1, as a minimum including the gap, then you would have 5, +6, +6, then the top of the third cavern.  Call it an even 20 as a round number, even though strictly speaking, it could be as little as 17.

This worldgen below has embarks in the southeast edge/corner starting at 149, one soil level 148, then from 147-128 is stone, then the cavern starts at 127, ends at 123 (5, inclusive), then magma starts at 119.
In this case the value of '20' is the 147-128 (inclusive).  In other words, change that value "Z Levels Above Layer 1" to whatever you want to simulate the thickness of the other two caverns, and you're set.
Spoiler: 1cav-20 (click to show/hide)
I will note that this world is simply for demonstration purposes. 
There aren't any enemies outside of the caverns or aggressive wildlife, and there's only 1 civ.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 10:26:14 am by vjek »
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