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Author Topic: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Viridian Forest 04-01-12 @@@  (Read 45728 times)

thatkid

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 03:10:27 pm »
Alrighty :)

I'll mock up the deoxys sometime tonight, and also make something from the original 151 to go with it!
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monk12

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 03:46:20 pm »
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on March 02, 2012, 02:05:11 pm
Darn I hate when a good idea has to be put on hold due to DF limits. Which means Pokemon can evolve by sitting around :/ could not Bulbosaur's leech seed be modified for the original idea? or is it bugged as well?

Anyways great work :)

Bugged as well, I'm afraid- I've removed the buff ability for the next adventure mode release, since the AI would give the enemy the general debuff AND the recuperation increase. A bit frustrating since it worked fine if the adventurer was the one using it- a similar effect will probably make it in for the Drain abilities that will only be available via TM, to keep the dumb AI from making your enemies stronger. Hopefully new interaction usage hints will make both those kinds of attack and evolutions possible.

Quote from: Rumrusher on March 02, 2012, 07:39:37 am
hmm maybe fort mode and adventure mode can be merge together if you make it so that each pokemon live in different entities. that way Dorfs can capture and train them when they raid, and adventurers can recruit them?

There's a couple of ways that adventure mode and fort mode don't work well together. In adventure mode, I've got a Pokemon creature with each playable race as a caste within it- this allows me to have them all show up in the same entity, so you don't have to visit a bunch of different civilizations to get a balanced team of Pokemon. In fort mode, each of those castes is its own evolution family, to keep them respecting their own biomes in the wild, respecting their own breeding pools, as well as being generally cleaner.

If we went the "Pokemon are their own civ, Dorfs capture/train them" I think we're still hitting problems with loyalties and taming them. If they are wild animals, the code already supports that, but if they are hostile entities I don't know of a way to make them tame, or even friendly.

Quote from: thatkid on March 02, 2012, 03:10:27 pm
Alrighty :)

I'll mock up the deoxys sometime tonight, and also make something from the original 151 to go with it!

Yeah, my personal priorities go 151 > Gen II > Everything else. Some of the Gen II stuff will probably make it before some Gen I things, depending on ease of implementation and balance needs. I am certainly not averse to Pokemon from other Gens going in, and if you feel like doing the grunt work for it then they'll make it all the faster!

For adjusted stat ranges for the mons, I've got a conversion chart set up. If you've got the adventure mode raws you'll find it in the objects folder as Pokemon_Stats_and_notes.txt, but I'll copy it here for your convenience.

Spoiler: Pokemon Stats and notes .txt (click to show/hide)

We've also been using the weights given on Bulbapedia, but we've noticed incongruities, especially towards the higher end of the spectrum (officially, Onix isn't all that big, nor is Snorlax.) It's a starting place, and glancing at Deoxys his "dwarf size" seems about right, but there's room for fudging.

Anywho, back to making my raws not explode.
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tahujdt

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 05:54:28 pm »
What, exactly, caused Squirtle to go fruit-shaped? I checked but couldn't find anything.
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monk12

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2012, 06:02:43 pm »
I'm still not entirely sure, but it was some conflict of creature level tokens at the caste level. I've got it working now (as well as Wartortle/Blastoise) so hopefully I'll be popping out an update in not-too-long.
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Vgray

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2012, 08:09:11 pm »
I was amused when the first bandit leader said "Surrender now or prepare to fight".

Interesting thing. I was just sent to slay a vampire. Who also happens to be a bandit leader.


A charmanders flame is a body part? Huh.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:37:13 pm by Vgray »
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thatkid

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2012, 08:49:21 pm »
Regarding a combining of Fort Mode and Adventure mode:

Take the three starters you have now, make a copy of them, and toss them into a new creature file with no biome or pop tags. Then create an entity containing only [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE] and a race entry for Charmander, Bulbasaur, and Squirtle.
If someone wants to play as a different pokemon adventurer they should be able to mod it in fairly easily. This will allow for a Pokemon Civ, as well as Pokemon adventurers without too much hassle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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irdsm

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2012, 08:54:37 pm »
Can you keep each generation of pokemon in separate text files? I honestly loath the idea of having anything after gen 3 in the game, and I'm even iffy on a lot of gen 3 pokemon.
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tahujdt

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2012, 06:04:18 pm »
I was playing, and my charmander jumped straight to charizard after less than a month.

I was using dfhack's fastdwarf, could that have affected it?
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Old Greg

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2012, 06:14:44 pm »
@thatkid: Interesting, I might play around with that. There are a few other hurdles though, specifically that adv mode creatures need to have [EQUIPS] and [INTELLIGENT], though I haven't tested the effects of those on pets. I know that tags like [PET] make them act weird as civs though.
The thing is I'm not too keen on is a pokemon civ existing in fort mode; they'd bring caravans, which would be odd, or they'd besiege you but be untameable when you catch them :/

@irdsm: Certainly, shouldn't be a problem.

@tahujdt: I accidently, pretty briefly, released a version where the male charmander's evolution was fast-tracked (for the sake of bugtesting). According to the download history, one person downloaded it before I could fix the error - you seem to be the lucky winner, sorry about that :P
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Korbac

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2012, 06:21:48 pm »
Same thing happened to me, Ol' Greg!

This mod is really cwl, the potions will make it mesh even better with DF. Test gamed it earlier on fort mode and was pretty fun! Can't wait 'till you add some more pokes. :)
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tahujdt

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2012, 06:31:00 pm »
Thee question is, will I switch back? Because Team
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
needs good fire types.
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tahujdt

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2012, 06:53:36 pm »
I worked out some things for Skitty/Poochyena, those are both one evolution Pokes, so they'll be easy to put in. I'm also working on a Pickup ability for Meowth. Since animals will use their abilities whenever they can, you can just give Meowth a Pickup function that will create a random item. Should I post them when I'm done? I think this should be implemented soon, because having ordinary dogs and cats as well as Pokemon does not seem right.

P.S. It is possible to name a fort Pocketmonsters.
Or the balls of poke.

EDIT: The combat log keeps getting spammed like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 06:57:32 pm by tahujdt »
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thatkid

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2012, 07:59:41 pm »
Quote from: Old Greg on March 03, 2012, 06:14:44 pm
@thatkid: Interesting, I might play around with that. There are a few other hurdles though, specifically that adv mode creatures need to have [EQUIPS] and [INTELLIGENT], though I haven't tested the effects of those on pets. I know that tags like [PET] make them act weird as civs though.
The thing is I'm not too keen on is a pokemon civ existing in fort mode; they'd bring caravans, which would be odd, or they'd besiege you but be untameable when you catch them :/

@irdsm: Certainly, shouldn't be a problem.

@tahujdt: I accidently, pretty briefly, released a version where the male charmander's evolution was fast-tracked (for the sake of bugtesting). According to the download history, one person downloaded it before I could fix the error - you seem to be the lucky winner, sorry about that :P
Well, simply the second civ I listed there could be used alongside the pet-Pokemon/Regular raws so that you could have dwarves embarking with them /and/ adventurers.
The idea is that the adventurer-only CIV's creature has no tags that would allow them to show up in the wild, any time you play one it would be the "first of its kind" and spawn out of thin air. Because there are no tags outside [CREATURE:x] and [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE] they also won't create a civilization.
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monk12

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Now with Fort Mode 03-02-12 @@@
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2012, 09:54:26 pm »
Quote from: tahujdt on March 03, 2012, 06:53:36 pm
I worked out some things for Skitty/Poochyena, those are both one evolution Pokes, so they'll be easy to put in. I'm also working on a Pickup ability for Meowth. Since animals will use their abilities whenever they can, you can just give Meowth a Pickup function that will create a random item. Should I post them when I'm done? I think this should be implemented soon, because having ordinary dogs and cats as well as Pokemon does not seem right.

P.S. It is possible to name a fort Pocketmonsters.
Or the balls of poke.

EDIT: The combat log keeps getting spammed like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, go ahead and post Skitty/Poochyena raws when you've got'm. I'm hesitant about a Pickup ability for Meowth, though, just because it'd be weird to have items appearing out of nowhere given the economy-focus of the game. It could be pretty cool to have them find berries and such though, so if you get something working on that front throw it in here too!

I've been giving thought to the whole "are Pokemon animals or people" question, especially in regard to whether they should replace real animal analogs. We have Squirtles now, do we take out Pond Turtles? Does Meowth replace a cat? In general, my personal preferences have been to have them coexist where they can. Basically, I consider Pokemon to be replacement animalpeople, so there is a place for Squirtle and Pond Turtles, but not Turtlemen. Cats have many unique behaviors and qualities that I would not necessarily want to transfer over to Meowth, so I'm fine with them coexisting. There will be cases where it might make more sense for a straight replacement when they fill the same niche (Miltank>Cows for instance,) but in general I think I'll be keeping most of the animals in. If nothing else, it's easier to remove RAWS than to add them.

And I know what's causing that message spam, should be a trivial fix.

Quote from: thatkid on March 02, 2012, 08:49:21 pm
Regarding a combining of Fort Mode and Adventure mode:

Take the three starters you have now, make a copy of them, and toss them into a new creature file with no biome or pop tags. Then create an entity containing only [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE] and a race entry for Charmander, Bulbasaur, and Squirtle.
If someone wants to play as a different pokemon adventurer they should be able to mod it in fairly easily. This will allow for a Pokemon Civ, as well as Pokemon adventurers without too much hassle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The reason for the separate raws is less a technical hurdle, and more a creative difference. I want the important Pokemon to have their own little civ, with their own diplomacy/crafters/history, and generally stand on their own. The idea is that the mod takes place before Humans and Pokemon were inextricably intertwined, and were reasonably independent of one another. I'd like Pokemon and Humans to be more likely to buddy up and play nice, but they should have their squabbles and wars and be not as close- more like the race relations you'd find in LotR, where the Elves and Dwarves and Humans all get along well enough, and band together against great threats, but they still fight one another now and then. Basically, Pokemon are Proud Warrior Race guys who get merged with the Humans much like Klingons merged with the Federation.

Old Greg's going more the "Pokemon are Animals" route, albeit very special and talented animals. Which is just fine, and in my opinion works better for Fort mode anyway. We share enough in common that it makes sense for us to share a thread, most of the same mechanics/mons/etc, and avoid competing with one another, but our intended play experiences are different enough to merit separate raws. Maybe our versions will grow closer as time goes on, but that's the way things stand now.
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Darekun

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Re: @@@ Pokemon Fables: Pallet Town release 02-24-12 @@@
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2012, 11:09:04 am »
Quote from: Old Greg on February 24, 2012, 11:16:51 am
I'm certainly planning on introducing mine-able fire stones and the like - the current iteration of the Evolution Shrine just takes any rock. It's a bit of an odd dance to play, as most rocks aren't available in most embarks, and ideally, a given fortress would have at least limited access to all evolutions.
It turns out you can take advantage of worldgen's simplicity to make specific stones almost certainly available at embark(and on request from caravan):
Code: [Select]
[ENVIRONMENT:ALL_STONE:CLUSTER_ONE:1]That yields a 1% chance of there being a single minable tile in each layer… everywhere.

Are there water stones in this bit of mountain? Sure, should be a couple somewhere, it's a place. Worldgen doesn't care how many and doesn't waste time finding them.

All the way down to 1% is perhaps excessive, I used 50% for my "ghost rock" so that a player could rely on mining, but would rather order some from caravan, even with [MATERIAL_VALUE:154]. (Also CLUSTER_ONE is weirdly fun :D) For embark availability plus a "regular" incidence, use this 1% [ENVIRONMENT] plus regular [ENVIRONMENT]s, in both modes.

(There's also the option of large reactions; if a reaction can turn 100 iron ore into a 1% chance of each evo stone, players of the civ won't be that interested, and may not be able to beat the clutter and fetch times, but all the civ needs is iron ore to have the full set at embark.)
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