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[Chaoswizkid]

A system I utterly despise. The more backwards you are, the more easily you can westernize is pretty dumb.

It makes a little bit of sense, if you think about it. If you're just a bit behind, then your pride as a nation may not allow you to adopt the newer technology. You need something that is so obviously superior that everyone in the nation would say "... yeah, so, what do we have to do to get that?"

That said, I also don't like it, I just think that it could make a bit of sense. I'm a fan of there being different ways to Westernize, though I don't think it'll happen.

Also, did anyone else who preordered get an extra copy of CK2? Because I just got one, and I have no idea why. Is it a confirmed pre-order perk? When I pre-ordered, there was just the thing with EU3 Chronicles, but that was after getting referrals.

[Chosrau]

Considering there are only 30 Tech levels, being 8 behind pretty much makes you a punching bag for most european powers.

It makes a little bit of sense, if you think about it. If you're just a bit behind, then your pride as a nation may not allow you to adopt the newer technology. You need something that is so obviously superior that everyone in the nation would say "... yeah, so, what do we have to do to get that?"

I wouldn't call a system that makes me think "I should totally stop my scientific progress so I can westernize" something that makes sense.
 
Your example may be used on first contact (native amercians meet europeans --> culture shock), but not in a situation of perpetual neighbourship (Ottomans and Europe).

[Digital Hellhound]

I think we should actually wait for the game before judging on how westernization works.

The free CK2 is from the last preorder bonus, yes, as is the CK2-EUIV converter. I'll have to figure out if I can find anyone to give it to.

[Chaoswizkid]

Jeez, they're just handing out CK2 like candy. I guess it makes sense, though, given the converter. Why is EU3: Chronicles a referral perk but CK2 is free? It's crazy to me. Paradox, what you doin'?

[Rakonas]

Considering there are only 30 Tech levels, being 8 behind pretty much makes you a punching bag for most european powers.

It makes a little bit of sense, if you think about it. If you're just a bit behind, then your pride as a nation may not allow you to adopt the newer technology. You need something that is so obviously superior that everyone in the nation would say "... yeah, so, what do we have to do to get that?"

I wouldn't call a system that makes me think "I should totally stop my scientific progress so I can westernize" something that makes sense.
 
Your example may be used on first contact (native amercians meet europeans --> culture shock), but not in a situation of perpetual neighbourship (Ottomans and Europe).

Yeah, I've always thought that the requirement of a tech difference was ridiculous, though in the case of ottomans+western europe it's clearly to force the ottomans to fall behind first rather than continuously keep up. Note, that while you say there's 30 tech levels and you require to be 8 behind, that almost definitely means 8 total. As in, be 5/5/5 with a 8/8/7 neighbour. I don't think it will actually be very much harder to westernize in EU4 though, if anything it should be easier as you could just save up points planning to spend them all once you westernize for a massive sudden boost.
I believe they're taking a hint from their terrible implementation of westernization in Vicky2:AHD in that regards, by doing basically the same thing again.
Edit:
Manual is released! http://cdn2.steampowered.com/Manuals/236850/EuropaUniversalisIV_Manual.pdf

[Kaferian]

I'm just dropping this link in here: New DD About Random Stuff Like Ledgers and Naval Combat and Production Stuff

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I would have prefered tabs rather than buttons for the ledger but it still looks like it's infinitely better than EUIII so I don't mind all that much. Already knew about the production interface and improved tutorial but I'm still glad we're getting them.
Mostly disappointed with the lack of attrition for AI controlled navies. We're going to have the same doom stacks patrolling the Atlantic again with Castile dropping 22,000 units on the Aztecs as soon as they're discovered. I'm wondering how trivial colonisation will be now that you can just make a core in captured lands instead of waiting 50 years.

[bulborbish]

I would have prefered tabs rather than buttons for the ledger but it still looks like it's infinitely better than EUIII so I don't mind all that much. Already knew about the production interface and improved tutorial but I'm still glad we're getting them.
Mostly disappointed with the lack of attrition for AI controlled navies. We're going to have the same doom stacks patrolling the Atlantic again with Castile dropping 22,000 units on the Aztecs as soon as they're discovered. I'm wondering how trivial colonisation will be now that you can just make a core in captured lands instead of waiting 50 years.

To be fair, now they can't just sieze a province the moment they reach there. Additionally, the question is if it will be worth coring the new world entirely, especially because that is a serious waste of monarch points that could be going towards buildings, techs, and idea groups.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I found the lack of forts actually made assaults harder since you had broken armies ping-ponging around the map taking provinces back. It also made nationalist/zealot rebels a real pain since they would just take the province as soon as they spawned.
My main argument about coring was mostly focused on how "colonial reach" would become irrelevant since you could just conquered and core a single unciv province and then move on to the colonial rush. I now remember that colonises still have to be cored and cost a whole bunch of maintenance that it might sometimes be worth it to just stay in Europe.

[Chaoswizkid]

Wait, you can force cores? That's wonderful! I was trying to play an EU3 game of Colonial Japan as Minamoto until Fujiwara got inherited, and I couldn't colonize Alaska or even Hawaii despite losing around a dozen ships and several explorers trying to find them. Meanwhile, the European powers already owned the east coast and almost all of South America. With the ability to force-core, I could have cored a place in Indonesia to reach Hawaii, cored that and then got the west coast. I mean yeah, I could invest elsewhere, but I wanted to be colonial Japan.

[Dutchling]

I would have prefered tabs rather than buttons for the ledger but it still looks like it's infinitely better than EUIII so I don't mind all that much. Already knew about the production interface and improved tutorial but I'm still glad we're getting them.
Mostly disappointed with the lack of attrition for AI controlled navies. We're going to have the same doom stacks patrolling the Atlantic again with Castile dropping 22,000 units on the Aztecs as soon as they're discovered. I'm wondering how trivial colonisation will be now that you can just make a core in captured lands instead of waiting 50 years.

To be fair, now they can't just sieze a province the moment they reach there. Additionally, the question is if it will be worth coring the new world entirely, especially because that is a serious waste of monarch points that could be going towards buildings, techs, and idea groups.

Coring colonies in incredibly cheap as (I assume this is the reason) they have no foreign cores. You can see this in Quill18's Portugal video. This will likely not be the case with the civilized native Americans and the Indian tribes.

edit: Is it just me or is the screenshot in page 10 of the manual from EU3?

[bulborbish]

I would have prefered tabs rather than buttons for the ledger but it still looks like it's infinitely better than EUIII so I don't mind all that much. Already knew about the production interface and improved tutorial but I'm still glad we're getting them.
Mostly disappointed with the lack of attrition for AI controlled navies. We're going to have the same doom stacks patrolling the Atlantic again with Castile dropping 22,000 units on the Aztecs as soon as they're discovered. I'm wondering how trivial colonisation will be now that you can just make a core in captured lands instead of waiting 50 years.

To be fair, now they can't just sieze a province the moment they reach there. Additionally, the question is if it will be worth coring the new world entirely, especially because that is a serious waste of monarch points that could be going towards buildings, techs, and idea groups.

Coring colonies in incredibly cheap as (I assume this is the reason) they have no foreign cores. You can see this in Quill18's Portugal video. This will likely not be the case with the civilized native Americans and the Indian tribes.

edit: Is it just me or is the screenshot in page 10 of the manual from EU3?

The options menu? It could just look exactly the same. No reason to change what isn't broken.

Also core cost is derieved primarily from the base tax value of the province. Most of the areas covered in the video derieve most of their income from trade, rather than from tax. In the more wealthy provinces that are actually worth something (Central America and the Caribbean) we should see significantly more expensive cores.

Also, if Colonial Range is the concern, than we still don't have to worry, seeing as the Cost of Colonies is significantly increased until turned into provinces, and would drive any nation to ruin if more than a few are worked on at a time.4

Wait, you can force cores? That's wonderful! I was trying to play an EU3 game of Colonial Japan as Minamoto until Fujiwara got inherited, and I couldn't colonize Alaska or even Hawaii despite losing around a dozen ships and several explorers trying to find them. Meanwhile, the European powers already owned the east coast and almost all of South America. With the ability to force-core, I could have cored a place in Indonesia to reach Hawaii, cored that and then got the west coast. I mean yeah, I could invest elsewhere, but I wanted to be colonial Japan.

You have no choice, seeing as automatic coring has been removed. But yeah, forcing cores should make Asian colonization fun.

[Kaferian]

A Summary of the Differences Between EU3 and 4. (PDF File)

[ibot66]

I feel like maybe after one hundred years there could be some auto cores.

[bulborbish]

I feel like maybe after one hundred years there could be some auto cores.

The point that automatic coring was removed was to stop some of the strange blobbing, along with strengthening some of the historically hard to control areas that really no nation had a solid claim to though they controlled the area (examples include the Frontier in America).

I suspect that Paradox's major goal at the beginning is to prevent a world conquest within two months. As time passes automatic coring may be added depending on circumstances.