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Author Topic: Europa Universalis IV  (Read 451501 times)

Baffler

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2055 on: September 08, 2015, 12:27:09 pm »

Just had an enemy army attack my army, the fighting lasted one day, and then they left with full morale. How can I do this?

You can't. You are allowed to retreat by just ordering your army to go somewhere else, but only after a couple days of fighting. I'm not sure how they managed it. I'm not aware of anything other than a declaration of peace that can interrupt a battle other than one side winning or retreating.
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Micro102

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2056 on: September 08, 2015, 03:37:54 pm »

Well, after several more instances of bullshit, I've concluded that they have messed up the single player beyond all playability in favor of expansions and multiplayer. This sucks.
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Bouchart

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2057 on: September 08, 2015, 04:12:21 pm »

For everyone complaining about the recent changes you'd probably like EU3 with all the expansions a lot better.  Quite frankly I never really understood how trade works in EU4 but in EU3 it's a lot easier to follow.  Just don't play as Ming in EU3, since it's so boring.
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Kruniac

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2058 on: September 08, 2015, 04:31:36 pm »

Wow, just screw this game. I tried playing a few times, and it's like the AI has hive mind of "kill the player" going. I go to war with the papal states and Hungary as Austria to grab the old empire provinces, and then France and England go into a peace that lets England keep all it's would-be French provinces, giving France nothing, and then England immediately goes into a military alliance with The Papal States, and then they join the war, somehow along with Leinster.

Another game I was against the Ottomans. Me and Hungary were beating them easily and Hungary decided that he didn't want the cluster of provinces he had be fabricating claims on so he leaves the war early and me to deal with an uninjured Ottoman empire.

I don't agree. For the most part, the AI reacts to a global scene pretty well. Maybe you should have had good relations with England.

There are a lot of lazy EUIV players who don't bother kissing the ass of major nations and then whine when they get jumped on by them. I make it policy to have all but one of my diplomats improving relations with key nations at all times.

Hell, even "Hostile" nations can be convinced to leave you alone, given enough time spent kissing their ass.

Another point to consider is that while most nations aren't a threat to people like Austria, if enough minors gang up on you, they toss their armies together into a doom stack. Then you die. Don't let it happen. Make good relations scattered around yourself - you are not playing a badass in this game. You will be overwhelmed.

Dunno. The game seems the same as it's always been. If you're just now playing EUIV, have never played any of the others, and are calling the game "bullshit", then perhaps you simply aren't cut out for the series. I know a lot of roguelike players are in that position.

If you have a problem with EUIV specifically but enjoy the genre, give Crusader Kings or even Vicky 2 a try. Different time periods, great games.
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Micro102

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2059 on: September 08, 2015, 06:10:51 pm »

Wow, just screw this game. I tried playing a few times, and it's like the AI has hive mind of "kill the player" going. I go to war with the papal states and Hungary as Austria to grab the old empire provinces, and then France and England go into a peace that lets England keep all it's would-be French provinces, giving France nothing, and then England immediately goes into a military alliance with The Papal States, and then they join the war, somehow along with Leinster.

Another game I was against the Ottomans. Me and Hungary were beating them easily and Hungary decided that he didn't want the cluster of provinces he had be fabricating claims on so he leaves the war early and me to deal with an uninjured Ottoman empire.

I don't agree. For the most part, the AI reacts to a global scene pretty well. Maybe you should have had good relations with England.

There are a lot of lazy EUIV players who don't bother kissing the ass of major nations and then whine when they get jumped on by them. I make it policy to have all but one of my diplomats improving relations with key nations at all times.

Hell, even "Hostile" nations can be convinced to leave you alone, given enough time spent kissing their ass.

Another point to consider is that while most nations aren't a threat to people like Austria, if enough minors gang up on you, they toss their armies together into a doom stack. Then you die. Don't let it happen. Make good relations scattered around yourself - you are not playing a badass in this game. You will be overwhelmed.

Dunno. The game seems the same as it's always been. If you're just now playing EUIV, have never played any of the others, and are calling the game "bullshit", then perhaps you simply aren't cut out for the series. I know a lot of roguelike players are in that position.

If you have a problem with EUIV specifically but enjoy the genre, give Crusader Kings or even Vicky 2 a try. Different time periods, great games.

I really don't see how England disliking me has anything to do with the French abandoning their war with them and then having England ally with the papal states (who were at war at the time and miles away, I know if I tried that I would never be able to ally them). And I DID suck up to the Ottomans. It all disappears when they get the "-1000000 relations, wants all your provinces" modifier. They canceled the alliance and royal marriage for it.

I am not new to the game. I have played 100's of hours on both. I have played in all the area's of the map in EU4 and after the endless changes the game has slowly degraded in singleplayer. The AI does things I cannot comprehend. Teleporting units, instantly canceling battles to escape, allying nations that would normally give me a -1000 reading if I were to try the same... It's just aggravating.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2060 on: September 08, 2015, 07:55:43 pm »

No Micro, I think you really are misunderstanding the game mechanics. The AI does get a few bonuses, but frankly, I would put that out of your head completely, if it's leading you to think they have teleporting units and special exceptions to battle mechanics or diplomacy. Blaming your own mistakes on the blanket assumption that the AI was cheating just means you're never going to understand how the game mechanics actually work, and until then, will find the game needlessly frustrating.

I really don't see how England disliking me has anything to do with the French abandoning their war with them and then having England ally with the papal states (who were at war at the time and miles away, I know if I tried that I would never be able to ally them).

England has loads of troops and was still catholic. If they're catholic, they'll improve the papal state's opinion of them, and if they have loads of troops, they can ally with pretty much anyone they like on the same continent (distance between borders matters much less when making alliances than it does for marriages and diplovassalizing). While the Papal States is in a defensive war they'll get a -50 acceptance malus when sending alliance offers (-1000 is when sending alliance offers after starting an offensive war, and the AI gets this just as the player does), but no such malus when judging whether to accept an offer from someone (such as England). This is exactly how it works for the player, and if you kept a save and tag switched to England you'd see that the Papal States would gladly accept an alliance from England, even if they hadn't improved relations. They may have even accepted it while England was still in their war, but probably not unless they were really hurting. Just playing the game normally this should be obvious, and as the player you can also make new alliances and call them into your defensive wars after the war has started (normally players don't fight many defensive wars though).

If you don't want to fight the Papal State's allies, don't make them a cobelligerent. It has never been more clear to the player in the history of EU4 or EU3 as it is now how alliances will be called when declaring war, and the player has never had as much information or options. If you're declaring wars on people, check the opinion mapmode on the target to see who's "friendly" with them. It takes like 10 seconds to scan over their neighbors and people you don't want to fight, and will prevent you from making this same mistake again 95% of the time.

France peacing out with England without taking anything (or only taking one or two provinces) is very common. England starts as a hugely powerful nation now with loads of development, and likely had allies in that war with France (since the war isn't going at game start in the newer versions), so even when France occupies all England's continental possessions, they're unlikely to get the warscore to demand much. AI France probably peaced out after getting full ticking warscore and after the length of war modifier reached a certain point, in addition to whatever other factors (like manpower, WE, or if they had other wars going or revolts).

I CAN agree with that. Some of the stuff the AI gets away with is utter horseshit.

Like what? Here's a complete list of AI bonuses, still valid for this version.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2061 on: September 08, 2015, 08:03:08 pm »

Like what? Here's a complete list of AI bonuses, still valid for this version.
I love how that article claims that the AI "does not cheat on land attrition, not even a little" and then goes on to explain that the AI isn't effected by land attrition from other units in the same province.  So basically the AI could move three stacks, all right up to the supply limit, onto the same province, and thus fight at 3x the supply limit while taking no attrition.  Oh and if they move one of their units onto a player unit and together both units are over the supply limit, the player unit will take attrition but the AI unit will not.

"does not cheat on land attrition"

"not even a little"
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2062 on: September 08, 2015, 08:10:13 pm »

AI land attrition is probably the most annoying of the handicaps, though no naval attrition is another contender. In this Majapahit WC run, it's amazing how many times I've had troops invade the island of Java from Africa or colonizing Europeans. It's all stuff where it'd be better if the AI were improved so the handicaps could be removed, but whether that's possible while maintaining performance, I'm not sure.

Worth noting that it still is possible to wear out the AI through land attrition, it's one of the best ways to beat Austria and Ming in particular.
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Bouchart

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2063 on: September 08, 2015, 09:57:26 pm »

I started a new game as Brandenburg.

41 days after the start I form a personal union with Austria.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 09:59:36 pm by Bouchart »
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Persus13

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2064 on: September 08, 2015, 10:33:14 pm »

I started a new game as Brandenburg.

41 days after the start I form a personal union with Austria.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's pretty awesome. Hope Austria doesn't decide it hates you. Does that mean Bohemia is emperor?
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Longbowmen horsearcher doomstacks that suffer no attrition and can navigate all major rivers without ships.
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Bouchart

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2065 on: September 08, 2015, 10:43:48 pm »

Saxony became emperor.

Also this game got messy real fast.  The succession war was easy but then Saxony dragged me into a war against the Pope.  After that I declared war on the Teutonic Knights because Poland attacked them and they were weak.  Rather than attack Poland, which was sieging half of their forts, they went after my stack and wiped it out.  Poland eventually conquered half of TO and I fought them to a draw.

Long story short, Austria has high liberty desire, my prestige is -15 so I might not keep the personal union anyway, I have four loans and zero income and nothing else to show from any of the wars I fought.
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Micro102

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2066 on: September 08, 2015, 11:07:22 pm »

*snip*

I keep on hearing people saying that the AI doesn't cheat, and that the wiki says the AI doesn't cheat, but your words mean absolutely nothing when compared to my eyes watching the AI do this. I've seen 100+ stacks on one tile never taking attrition, I've seen armies pop up with no military access/boats with a clear LoS of all surrounding Provinces, I've seen the AI immediately leave a battle they were going to lose on the first day and they left with full morale. Frankly, I wish I had some sort of program that records the last half an hour of gameplay just to be able to either rub the video into peoples face or figure out what went wrong. Is there such a program? I'd rather not use a CPU intensive one or one that will record the entire game, chewing up my memory.
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Persus13

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2067 on: September 08, 2015, 11:10:43 pm »

I've seen 100+ stacks on one tile never taking attrition, I've seen armies pop up with no military access/boats with a clear LoS of all surrounding Provinces,
The first one was probably a bunch of HRE guys at war. THe second sounds like you missed something.

I've seen the AI immediately leave a battle they were going to lose on the first day and they left with full morale.
Has this happened more than once? Sounds like a bug to me.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2068 on: September 09, 2015, 05:06:19 am »

Frankly, I wish I had some sort of program that records the last half an hour of gameplay just to be able to either rub the video into peoples face or figure out what went wrong. Is there such a program? I'd rather not use a CPU intensive one or one that will record the entire game, chewing up my memory.

Dxtory is somewhat cheap, and recording something like EU4 wouldn't be very intensive with a performance codec and low settings. But I'm not sure how serious you are; all I'm saying is to look for an explanation in the game mechanics before jumping to conclusions about the AI cheating with everything. Incidentally, with the army retreating at full morale you saw, was there already a battle going on when they arrived? There's a very common bug that I'm not sure has been patched yet, where armies arriving on the day a battle is lost will do a shattered retreat along with the losing force.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this Majapahit run. With quantity ideas finished and some bigger vassals finally integrated, I was planning a blitz of Europe, starting with dismantling a truly disgusting PLC and a very weak HRE, but then I looked over the development of Europe and sort of lost enthusiasm. Seeing so many provinces all over the HRE with over 40 development, about 20 Ile-de-frances in France, and practically no province under 25 development... it would just be such a headache to integrate all those vassals and take the land bit by bit. At least with Ming high autonomy meant being able to take huge amounts of land in each war.

Spoiler: The world 1666 (click to show/hide)

Overall a very disappointing run, with around 20 years lost to regencies, a period of dedicated rebel stomping, a good deal of complacency on my side in often only warring one large target at time, wasting time shuffling troops between east and west on alternating truces, some sloppy wars going with the major powers going longer than they needed to, and poor vassal placement and expansion. I feel like in the last 60 years I accomplished next to nothing except eat Ming and needle into the Ottomans, but those regencies and low legitimacy rulers were quite unlucky I guess. I would still say a non-western WC is possible in this version though, even with the glaring development issues.
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Sergarr

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #2069 on: September 09, 2015, 09:06:59 am »

So this means that AI has undocumented bonuses, right?

It would be nice if someone has managed to actually document all these undocumented bonuses, with screenshots and videos attached so that the "AI is totally fair guys you just suck at gaming" people would shut up.
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