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Author Topic: Additional CIA japes [DPRK Thread]  (Read 515007 times)

Guardian G.I.

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Re: North Korea Backs Down [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1545 on: May 08, 2013, 01:50:37 am »

Actually, North Koreans are not so impoverished.
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Grakelin

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1546 on: May 08, 2013, 01:54:22 am »

Depending on their class.
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Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Guardian G.I.

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1547 on: May 08, 2013, 02:02:25 am »

Depending on their class.
Andrei Lankov (one of the few unbiased analysts of North Korea) states that the overall living conditions of average North Korean citizens have been slowly, but steadily improving in the recent years.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 02:04:52 am by Guardian G.I. »
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Max White

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1548 on: May 08, 2013, 02:04:21 am »

Yes but we would all feel a lot better thinking that the luckiest of them were living in mud huts eating the grubs under rocks. That way if there is an actual war we get to call ourselves liberators.

Grakelin

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1549 on: May 08, 2013, 03:14:14 am »

Maybe the situation has been improving there. I wouldn't be quick to call anybody unbiased. Andrei Lankov attended university in Pyongyang as an exchange student in 1985. He grew up and studied in Soviet Era Russia. His upbringing does not make him unbiased, it just gives him a different bias than an analyst from a Western nation. Nobody outside the country can actually have a clear, unbiased view of the place - most people aren't allowed to go around and just look. You can't go around interviewing random citizens. You get to talk either to the government or to people who ran away from it.

But here's the thing: If people were having an okay time in North Korea, they wouldn't defect in such large numbers. We know that a black market industry has formed specifically around getting North Korean defectors safely through China (which deports them directly back to NK, unlike several other countries which deport them back to SK). We know that enough North Koreans have successfully made the trip that the South Korean government continues to lessen aid to these people, and tighten admission requirements. We also know that Kim Jong-un has cracked down on defect attempts since taking power, and we have colloquial reports from the defectors that the North Korean government punishes the families of people they learn have successfully defected.

We are also aware that the citizenry of North Korea is divided into a class system known as Songbun, which may or may not be affecting who does and does not receive adequate amounts of food. It is the word of North Korean defectors against their government's. Though the Kaesong Industrial Complex managers were providing their workers with moon pies in lieu of cash bonuses (which would have been illegal). The moon pies are expected to have been sold privately by those who received them.

We also know that North Korea suffered an extreme peak in famine during the late nineties, which means the standard of living hasn't had anywhere to go except up. But since North Korea relies on foreign aid to feed its populace, we can only imagine a reversal, not an improvement, in the wake of their recent rhetoric.

I think that diminishing the level of poverty North Koreans are living in by claiming it is feel-good propaganda to validate a war is, in itself, feel-good propaganda. It's fun to poke at the USA's imperialistic tendencies, but it's not something that applies here, especially since the US is in no condition to actually go to war with that nation (they failed a war game based on a hypothetical North Korean conflict during the crisis), and they have made absolutely no indication that they plan to assault it. Even their government's opposition wants them to go to war with somebody else.

Let's not pretend that the North Korean people are happy, or that attempts to say otherwise are validification of armed conflict.

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Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Owlbread

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1550 on: May 08, 2013, 11:32:48 am »

Andrei Lankov (one of the few unbiased analysts of North Korea) states that the overall living conditions of average North Korean citizens have been slowly, but steadily improving in the recent years.

The standard of living of middle class North Koreans (i.e. those without undesirable backgrounds) is still pretty appalling, even if it is improving.

In the 1990s it was worse - people were (and I think still are) getting shafted by the system i.e. education, jobs, anything because they had family that lived in Japan or because one of their ancestors had been a South Korean POW or whatever. You know, you just wouldn't get enough marks to pass a particular exam or you'd get turned down for jobs constantly so you'd never amount to anything.

EDIT:

Ninja'd by Grakelin. Basically said everything I wanted to say except more eloquently and more convincingly. The only other thing I'd like to add to what he said was on the subject of the colloquial reports of the regime punishing the defectors' families - I've heard claims they'll put your entire close family (as far as cousins?) in prison camps.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 11:38:45 am by Owlbread »
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Servant Corps

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1551 on: May 08, 2013, 12:43:30 pm »

But here's the thing: If people were having an okay time in North Korea, they wouldn't defect in such large numbers.
Sure they would. If literally every other country nearby is doing far better than North Korea.

Slow and gradual improvement in the living standards of North Korea is not at all claiming that the North Korean population is "happy".
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Duuvian

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1552 on: May 08, 2013, 08:03:03 pm »

Andrei Lankov (one of the few unbiased analysts of North Korea) states that the overall living conditions of average North Korean citizens have been slowly, but steadily improving in the recent years.
In the 1990s it was worse - people were (and I think still are) getting shafted by the system i.e. education, jobs, anything because they had family that lived in Japan or because one of their ancestors had been a South Korean POW or whatever. You know, you just wouldn't get enough marks to pass a particular exam or you'd get turned down for jobs constantly so you'd never amount to anything.

Wat? They treat them like American marijuana smokers? That's terrible!
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1553 on: May 08, 2013, 08:07:57 pm »

And yet recreational marijuana use is legal in North Korea...
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Duuvian

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1554 on: May 08, 2013, 08:15:15 pm »

And yet recreational marijuana use is legal in North Korea...

Haha
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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Cthulufaic

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1555 on: May 08, 2013, 08:48:52 pm »

And yet recreational marijuana use is legal in North Korea...
North Korea best country.
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misko27

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1556 on: May 08, 2013, 08:56:20 pm »

And yet recreational marijuana use is legal in North Korea...
North Korea best country.
Thinking of a certain low-lying country my man.

Anyway, It's seems China has taken a radical step forward in their relation with the Craziest state, Doing what everyone else is doing!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/08/world/asia/china-cuts-ties-with-north-korean-bank.html?_r=0
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1557 on: May 08, 2013, 09:09:45 pm »

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/08/world/asia/china-cuts-ties-with-north-korean-bank.html?_r=0

Told you guys China won't play the 'swing your swords at our biggest trade partner/money machine' game with a pissant like Best Korea. This is actually a massive, massive change in their policy considering the BOC/BOK are integral to the NK armament plans.
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hops

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Re: North Korea Goes Full Dubai [North Korea Thread]
« Reply #1558 on: May 09, 2013, 05:23:24 am »

And yet recreational marijuana use is legal in North Korea...
Because nobody except the rich could afford to stop and smoke in North Korea
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Finally, China does the right thing and cut ties with the NK bank. Something must've happened behind the scenes for them to finally pull the plug.
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