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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 970259 times)

nenjin

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Hubris brought Magnus down, as it did pretty much the whole Imperium, Emps included.

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but since his legion was a bunch of freaks with more mutations than a chaos spawn before prospero whyd emps not end them

PLOT, u kno. But it's an example of like I said, people acting irrationally for the sake of drama. It'd beggar belief to think the Emperor could be sentimental enough to not do something about so obvious a problem he knew he created. (Magnus had no form in the tank, his public appearance is a manufactured one.) Shouldn't have surprised the Emperor the Legion would have a problem holding their own forms.

Here's a parenting metaphor for you though: you know your family has a history of congenital defects. You have a son that has this congenital defect. Likewise, his defect is a constant source of troubles for him, that you can view as "your fault." What do you do? Take them out because it's what's best for them? Or let them live because you brought them in to this world? Telling Magnus not to engage with the Warp would be like asking him to not breathe, or think. Magnus is perhaps a special case in that his existence could be a threat to millions or even the Emperor himself. Or maybe not so special, if you think about The Night Haunter Konrad Kruze.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:52:04 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Grim Portent

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bs.

magnus would have dwelved as far as he wanted to whether or not emps taught him about bananas with condoms on.


magnus' attituide was one of comfort with the warp.  his power and inexperience brought him down.

but since his legion was a bunch of freaks with more mutations than a chaos spawn before prospero whyd emps not end them

Initially the Emperor was just letting the Thousand Sons die off on their own because he couldn't fix them. Their name comes from the fact just under a thousand were left by the time they found Magnus, the rest had died to the Flesh Change by then. Magnus managed to fix it quickly by striking a bargain with Tzeentch, who was probably the originator of the Flesh Change himself. From that point on the 1k Sons were one of the most effective Legions despite being much smaller than all the others, so the Emperor had no reason (or time) to poke too deeply into them. He just hoped Magnus would heed his warnings thereafter and stop bargaining with daemons.

Especially considering the accusation Tzeentch throws at the Emperor to Magnus where he claims the Emperor made Magnus to be in the position the Emperor is in now when the time was right. According to Tzeentch Magnus' ultimate fate at the Emperor's hands would have been being bound upon the Golden Throne in perpetual agony as his psychic might was used to bolster the Astronomicon and the Webway. If that's true then Magnus was far too valuable for the Emperor to cast him aside prematurely.



It's also not like other mutant/deviant Legions weren't tolerated after all. The Space Wolves have a contagious degeneration into werewolves built into their genetic code, Sanguinus has wings, the Salamanders are all charcoal black with glowing red eyes, the Iron Hands practice self mutilation, the Night Lords are prone to prophetic visions and a cultural addiction to murder, the Word Bearer's are driven to find something to revere against the Emperor's express wishes, the White Scars are prone to being consumed by berzerker rages and losing control, the World Eater's kill entire planets for refusing to surrender, the Dark Angels compulsively keep dangerous secrets from everyone, Mortarion just flat out hated the Emperor, the Iron Warriors indulged in genocide out of frustration and what was essentially boredom,

If the Emperor had culled each Primarch or Legion that failed to meet the desired standard set in their design phase he would have been left with the Ultramarines, Luna Wolves, the Alpha Legion, the Imperial Fists, the Emperor's Children and the Ravenguard, and I'm not entirely sure about the Alpha Legion or Ravenguard.

You can't really discard 2/3rds of your greatest warriors and your own children because they have some qualities that make them evil in the small scale, and in the grand scheme of things even Angron and Kurze were essentially heroic figures, conquering entire worlds for the empire of Space Rome and killing entire species of creatures that ate children and breathed out poison, the loss of a few million or billion people per world to their faults would have been far outweighed by the people they saved in the long run had the Heresy not happened.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

nenjin

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Maybe not even Ravenguard. Corax can do some weird shit.

Also let's not forget for Magnus, the Emperor designed him to be a giant antenna/battery for the future....whatever he was planning, I can't quite remember. So his decision to not wipe him and the Thousands Sons out could have been for cold, pragmatic reasons. Even after all the shit he pulled, the Emperor still didn't actually sick the Space Wolves on him. It was Horus.

(Which for me is a plot twist I didn't really need. It would have been metal as hell for the Emperor to put his golden boot down and be like "You crossed the line Magnus." That virtually everyone believes that's what happened, but the Emperor really didn't do it, is somehow....I dunno. Less grimdark. Same with the council of Nikea and the "Emperor not really wanting to do this." It makes for a more interesting world to me where there were legit problems with the Emperor's decisions, rather than all this Horus-Xanatos Roulette shit.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 05:52:44 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

MetalSlimeHunt

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Yes, the Emperor told Magnus that warp entities were "dangerous, now don't delve any deeper" which failed like DARE for exactly the same reason. It's the fallacy that curiosity must be equal to interest. It should have been easy for the Emperor to notice that Magnus is a massive fucking nerd who wants to know everything, and thus the actual safe risk is to tell him the whole story of the warp and Chaos.

It's one thing to know that it's "dangerous" and try to beguile warp predators like they're fucking genies or something, but quite another to understand that they're gestalt formations of the collective galactic subconscious, are far beyond anything you can understand, and can brainwash you through proximity alone. And that they have a massive hate-on for your dad, who is the only serious obstacle they've ever ran into and has a cunning plan to undo them for good.

That's Magnus' grand irony. He wanted to abolish ignorance but fell because he himself was ignorant of the realities of the warp.
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TempAcc

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Magnus was well intentioned from the start, its just he was SO well intentioned he ended up his actions would truly bring great things for humanity despite being warned about it by emprah. He was just a well intentioned child with enough power to bore a fuckoff huge hole on the human webway project and allow daemons to flood it, and since tzeentch is made entirely of just as planned, manipulating magnus was probably as easy as taking candy from babies.

The space wolves got turned against the thousands sons because of lorgar's and the already corrupted horus' scheming, specially during the council of nikea, which already looked pretty grim for the thousand sons.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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I wouldn't say that Nikea made things look grim for the Thousand Sons. It tore out the heart of their legion's culture by banning psykers, yes, but the Emperor also went out of his way to state "Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. *pointed glance at Russ*"

It was basically too late by then, but in theory the ruling could have been followed.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

LordPorkins

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*pointed glance at Russ*

Leman Russ: W hat in the wolf did you just howlin' say about me, you little milksop? I'll have ye know I was throned at the top of my tribe in the Kingdom of the Russ, and I've been involved in numerous executions of traitor Primarchs and I have over 300 million confirmed kills! I am trained in wolf warfare, and I am the top C. Q. C. Expert in the entire Imperium. Ye are NOTHIN' to me but just ANOTHER NANCY LIONLOVER BITCH.
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Ïlul Thuveg-Ellest
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pisskop

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Im leaning toward siding with lionel over lemon russ and his band of space wolves doing things that space wolves do
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 01:44:05 pm by pisskop »
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

LordPorkins

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Alright, discussion time! Which Faction is your favorite, and why. Mines gotta be between the Salamanders, Imperial Guard, and the Orks (Did I mention my favorite colors green?)
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Ïlul Thuveg-Ellest
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KingofstarrySkies

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God no don't we've had this before stop no don't
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Rolan7

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My fav is ultra marines be cause they are blue and also be cause Matt ward is good at lore and writing deep caricatures
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Kot

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Grey Knights

Imperial Guard, obviously. Death Korps of Krieg the best. Armageddon and Elysians second, Tallaran and Mordians third. Honourable mention to my own Winged Hussar rough rider regiment that I will totally make one day.
Sororitas second.
Celestial Lions the best Space Marines.
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Ghazkull

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EDIT: 0.1. Because i forgot them KROOOOT
1. KRIEEEG (also Mordia and Valhalla get honorable mentions)
2. Tau (because fuck you, i like them and thats to that. Plus i like the idea of a Xeno-Confederacy although the Tau are putting htemselves clearly center-stage)
3. Tyranids/Necrons/Orks (all three somewhat share that place)
4. Eldar (because sometimes i just like the idea of a race of people who fuck with everyone else and claim moral high ground despite being basically at fault for 60-70 percent that is going bad in the universe
|
v
All the rest...last place Space Marines because they are horribly boring, full of angst, behave like testosterone overloaded teenagers and the primarchs are even worse.


« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 05:42:06 am by Ghazkull »
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Rolepgeek

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Tau Auxiliary Races including Tau Imperial Guard Regiments (Still an Empire, so still Imperial :P)
Tau
Actual Imperial Guard
Orks/Eldar/Sisters of Battle
Tyranids/Necrons/Chaos/Space Marines
Other Imperial Factions
Chaos
Dark Eldar
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Loud Whispers

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    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH

1. Inquisition (best hats)
2. Commissariat (best hats)
3. Orks (best hats)
4. Mordians (best hats)
5. Mechanicus (metal hats)
6. Krieg (best hats)
7. Praetorian (best hats)
8. Vostroyan (best hats)
9. Eldar (best hats)
10. Kroot (space kobold camp)
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